Stormgate - A thread for people who know the difference between right clicking and a-clicking

[Asian tech support]

I know someone who got into the super secret closed alpha or whatever a couple months ago. He said he had to sign some gay NDA. He also said it was pretty shit.

 

[Abbadon's Gate]

yes yes soy and resigned to not try just like everyone else

lol don't be a faggot. I've played enough MOBA to know its a trash genre with a significantly lower skill ceiling.

I didnt give you a different perspective on the issue for you to turn around and make excuses
it was to encourage you (not literally you, but whoever might be considering trying out an rts game)

everything you just complained about is muscle memory, it's literally just practice, and that's why you don't wanna do it.

So I take it you're like a GM level Random player then in whatever RTS of your choice is, and not some washout who went to League because it was free and became a deep meta enjoyer of building the same items every single game and killing AI creeps walking to a tower for 20 minutes until anything actually happens.

 

[Muttley]

lol don't be a faggot. I've played enough MOBA to know its a trash genre with a significantly lower skill ceiling.

I never said anything about skill ceiling though.
Like fighting games, the skill ceiling for RTS is probably infinite.

What I said is that to learn and start playing a new RTS, takes a few matches.
You don't need any outside sources.
Now imagine playing League of Legends in a world where websites like U.GG don't exist.
The AMOUNT OF STUFF you have to learn, specifically about builds and items, is fucking insane, and expects way too much of your average person.
Without just referring to a website like U.GG, how the hell are you supposed to know what items to buy?
That's not a few games of experience to get an idea of, it's dozens of games to build that game sense, at least.
And buying items is the most basic part of playing, behind giving commands to your unit and what order to take your skills in.

You don't have to study a pro-league to play an RTS. You only need to look at replays, and that's only if you want to actively improve.
But with MOBA's you literally have to look up the highest W/L rate item purchases or you're a clown. You take what skills you're supposed to take, and when, or you're a clown.
And I think all this results in MOBAs harder to get into than RTS, despite people being more quick to pick them up.

The real reason people struggle with getting into RTS is because they're scared. They think they can't multitask. They think they could never multitask... At least, not like that.
Rolling 1v1s is nerve wracking when you first start out. And it's really that simple.

RTS is very low barrier to entry, people are just scared of it.

 

[Muttley]

So I take it you're like a GM level Random player then in whatever RTS of your choice is, and not some washout who went to League because it was free and became a deep meta enjoyer of building the same items every single game and killing AI creeps walking to a tower for 20 minutes until anything actually happens.

1s me faget

 

[Lemmingwiser]

I never said anything about skill ceiling though.
Like fighting games, the skill ceiling for RTS is probably infinite.

What I said is that to learn and start playing a new RTS, takes a few matches.
You don't need any outside sources.
Now imagine playing League of Legends in a world where websites like U.GG don't exist.
The AMOUNT OF STUFF you have to learn, specifically about builds and items, is fucking insane, and expects way too much of your average person.
Without just referring to a website like U.GG, how the hell are you supposed to know what items to buy?
That's not a few games of experience to get an idea of, it's dozens of games to build that game sense, at least.
And buying items is the most basic part of playing, behind giving commands to your unit and what order to take your skills in.

You don't have to study a pro-league to play an RTS. You only need to look at replays, and that's only if you want to actively improve.
But with MOBA's you literally have to look up the highest W/L rate item purchases or you're a clown. You take what skills you're supposed to take, and when, or you're a clown.
And I think all this results in MOBAs harder to get into than RTS, despite people being more quick to pick them up.

The real reason people struggle with getting into RTS is because they're scared. They think they can't multitask. They think they could never multitask... At least, not like that.
Rolling 1v1s is nerve wracking when you first start out. And it's really that simple.

RTS is very low barrier to entry, people are just scared of it.

It's still nonsense. You don't need to know builds at all. I don't know the other ones, but LOL gives you an item build to follow.

And if you take a young person, a RTS demands a lot of skills they don't have. Multitasking, hotkeys, mouse control. Moba's are so much easier to learn, because you only have to focus on a single unit. You don't move the map back and discover that your base is gone. You are naturally going to do the basic tasks you need to do.

The fact that you have teammates telling you what to do also means you learn faster. It may be annoying, but people learn fadter from that than being tower rushed or something like that.

I know someone who got into the super secret closed alpha or whatever a couple months ago. He said he had to sign some gay NDA. He also said it was pretty shit.

You can tell from the gameplay they've revealed so far. They're not doing anythong new with the genre and therefor it will not revive it, because people can just play the old games

 

[Sulla]

Stormgate looks like "we wanted to make Brood War but we can't just copy Brood War entirely," even though copying Brood War entirely is the only way you're going to get a really good RTS ever again. AOE2/4 are good games don't get me wrong but Brood War still easily the best and that's probably never going to change. It is making a decent comeback in South Korea and the global competitive scene which is great. Sorry Stormgate, Brood War forever. I'll still check Stormgate out when it's completed. I'm not paying for lore missions unless the gameplay is close to Brood War quality though

The only MOBA that wasn't shit was the original DotA maps (once IceFrog took over developing it) for War3 Frozen Throne. Fuck MOBAs except that one

Ahem, Aeon of Strife

 

[Muttley]

It's still nonsense. You don't need to know builds at all. I don't know the other ones, but LOL gives you an item build to follow.

I don't think the item suggestion feature showing you what recipes it has is a defense when it's literally dozens of items, hundreds of recipes, and it's especially not useful when the suggestions are mostly wrong most of the time. It'll suggest boots and health pot and it's wrong about everything else after that.

 

[Lemmingwiser]

I don't think the item suggestion feature showing you what recipes it has is a defense when it's literally dozens of items, hundreds of recipes, and it's especially not useful when the suggestions are mostly wrong most of the time. It'll suggest boots and health pot and it's wrong about everything else after that.

Yeah and the build orders they do in RTS are wrong too. We're talking barrier to entry not barrier to the skill level you think is acceptable.

 

[Abbadon's Gate]

Yeah and the build orders they do in RTS are wrong too. We're talking barrier to entry not barrier to the skill level you think is acceptable.

I think you mentioned it with hotkeys, but lets not forget the more advanced shit involving hotkeys. From SC2 off the top of my head I recall: Moving Immortals from being hotkeyed on "i" to hotkeyed on "r" as a big thing. Oh as well as being able to rebind warp-ins to the mouse scroll so you could do it faster.

At the end of the day, keeping track of MIAs and where a jungler is, is a hell of a lot easier even when last hitting than say: Knowing when a useful time to send a scout out is, remembering to pay attention to the scout so it doesn't die and you don't miss anything important, and then also knowing what is important when you're looking at it to make informed decisions.

Somehow I don't think there's as much thought put into buying a ward to watch river as there is, getting into a Protoss's base, realizing they have 3 pylons when they should have four, noting they have both gasses but only a cybernetics core and then coming to the understanding that more than likely there's a proxy twilight and dark templar shrine somewhere near your base, and since its PvP and you didn't open canons, immediately and as quickly as possible get an overseer or oracle out.

 

[Muttley]

Yeah and the build orders they do in RTS are wrong too. We're talking barrier to entry not barrier to the skill level you think is acceptable.

a build order in RTS is like

get gas
build lair
build spire

how can that be wrong

and what rts gives you a build order?
I play supcom, total annihilation, coh2, steel division, warno, brood war and i used to play sc2 and wc3
ive never seen such a feature, only tech trees

 

[Lemmingwiser]

ive never seen such a feature, only tech trees

You used to play SC2, which even shows you each player's build order in the post game stats.

The fact that you are unaware of it is exactly my point: it's something to improve play, it's not a barrier to entry. Just like item guides are. I would wager over half of moba players don't follow item guides either and have never looked at one.

a build order in RTS is like

get gas
build lair
build spire

ps since you dont know, a build order is typically measured by amount of workers, which is used to measure time and the presumption is that they are done as soon as possible, so in starcraft they look something like:

14 drones -overlord
16 drones -2nd hatchery
18 drones - spawning pool

or in age of empires something like

12 workers -lure the boar
15 workers - tech up
16 workers- 2nd house

I haven't played in forever so I don't know sensible build orders anymore. They really are comparable to item guides.

 

[Abbadon's Gate]

I haven't played in forever so I don't know sensible build orders anymore. They really are comparable to item guides.

Nearly 1:1 in terms of how they play out, plus like following item builds they can't account for like what to do if you get early rushed, or cheesed just like item guides don't really account for what to do if your support player's version of support is letting the ADC core them out for 20 minutes.

MOBA players never not seething when people point out their game isn't the bastion of strategy and skill they think it is. Somethings never change.

 

[Lemmingwiser]

Nearly 1:1 in terms of how they play out, plus like following item builds they can't account for like what to do if you get early rushed, or cheesed just like item guides don't really account for what to do if your support player's version of support is letting the ADC core them out for 20 minutes.

MOBA players never not seething when people point out their game isn't the bastion of strategy and skill they think it is. Somethings never change.

And it makes sense. Because they aee the same audience, the same target group. And on the whole the target group prefers playing moba's over RTS and which is why stormgate will whither. Anyways I've done being speaker of doom for stormgate. If it didn't look like overwatch, starcraft and diablo had an illegitimate child, I would also have wished it good luck.

 

[Abbadon's Gate]

If it didn't look like overwatch, starcraft and diablo had an illegitimate child, I would also have wished it good luck.

Fair and I am a little more hopeful than you are, but at the same time, not really get my hopes that up.

 

[Nambona890]

Paid early access just dropped.




I had pretty low hopes for it ever since one of their earliest gameplay videos was a 1v1 featuring a SC2 pro, not to mention the godawful unit clarity and mobile slop artstyle in the showmatches.

 

[Thiletonomics]

There was some sort of StormGate tournament, featuring SC2 pros, and features this clip of "RiVeTiNg GaMePlAy":

Also remember that this game has a $40 million budget.

These graphics look so hideous and unfinished, that it makes the original Age of Empires 1 look like a much better game:

 

[Hammr2]

Surely those $40 million budget are well-spent to somewhere, beside having that Simu Liu as one of major villain in game.


From article in that reddit thread.

 

[Mike Matei's Penis]

Kinda liked this game in one of the free alphas, shame about the artstyle. And a DEI board fuck me, even when the models are miles away from the camera they have to be hideous.

 

[⋖ cørdion ⋗]

The real reason people struggle with getting into RTS is because they're scared. They think they can't multitask. They think they could never multitask... At least, not like that.
Rolling 1v1s is nerve wracking when you first start out. And it's really that simple.

RTS is very low barrier to entry, people are just scared of it.

First time Ive seen anyone do the fighting-RTS correlation other than me.

Both are 100% skill and you're the reason you lost every time. Which is unappealing cause people rather write it off as RNG or a bad spawn. You can learn by playing, sure, but it's halfway time waste if the alternative is reading a few guides; another thing people don't do anymore.

 

[Nambona890]

Ended up giving the game a go once it went F2P.

Campaign's forgettable.
Multiplayer's okay but it really needs in-game tutorials/info, especially considering that in the 3 free campaign missions you only get to learn the basics of Vanguard.
My personal preference is that I'd like to learn how each faction works and experiment that way, instead of just using a basic cookie cutter build order from YouTube.