Russian Special Military Operation in the Ukraine - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[Suah Noteb]

Head of Zelensky's faction: Many MPs want to resign but parliament doesn't let them (archive)

There are many Ukrainian lawmakers who want to resign from their positions before the end of their terms, David Arakhamia, head of President Volodymyr Zelensky's Servant of the People faction in parliament, said on national television on Dec. 11.

Other members of parliament do not allow them to resign because they need to pass laws necessary for the nation, he said.

If a Ukrainian MP submits his or her resignation, it must be approved or rejected by a majority of MPs.

According to the Chesno non-profit, a record 17 lawmakers have been stripped of their mandates since the start of the full-scale Russian invasion. Nearly all of them belong to the pro-Russian Opposition Platform-For Life party.

one would assume that the MPs want to bail the country but cannot.

 

[Sir Joahim Browinson III]

That list isn't serious or wasn't created by a serious person. There's no Lenin/Trotsky laying in the wings ready to take any deal to buy time or the belief in the inevitability of socialism to reverse the loss. I'm ready to accept the inevitability the Zelenskyy will not relevant when an actual peace is negotiated.

Number 4 is the best. Remember in the Chronicles of Narnia when the kids where kidnapped from bombed out London and tortured?

Man if this is really the plan WEF is sticking with than maybe I shoud really stop consider Shwab/Soros/etc as some sort of cunning new world order architects /pol/ paints them to be.
Theese old retards cannot understand a simple fact that you can't make a country willingly kill itself when it's in fact doing alright. "The peace formula" ain't gonna work unless there are AFU tanks riding through Red Square and there are multiple uprisings in rural regions which as of now is beyond wishfull thinking.

 

[Strix454]

There was a New York Times article today about contrasting future war strategies being discussed between the US and Ukraine:

US and Ukraine Search for a New Strategy After Failed Counteroffensive

Some in the U.S. military want Ukraine to pursue a “hold and build” strategy — to focus on holding the territory it has and building its ability to produce weapons over 2024. The United States believes the strategy will improve Ukraine’s self-sufficiency and ensure Kyiv is in a position to repel any new Russian drive.

The goal would be to create enough of a credible threat that Russia might consider engaging in meaningful negotiations at the end of next year or in 2025.

At the same time, Ukrainian officials are examining strategies that build on their successful deep strikes on Crimea last fall. They are searching for creative ways to keep Russia off balance with attacks against arms factories, weapons depots and train lines for moving munitions, and to score symbolic victories. One Ukrainian former senior military official declined to discuss the proposals but said the new plan is being refined and is “very daring.”

The US idea seems to be that Ukraine can get more weapons even if outside sources don't provide them anymore by building their own weapons. That building factories and building weapons inside Ukraine can somehow be done for free. Also somehow these new factories can be built in less than a year. And as well can be done with nearly all of the working population fighting in the war.

Ukraine on the other hand just wants to throw expensive missiles deep into Russia or at targets they have little chance of taking out. All the talk involves utterly unrealistic numbers of missiles that Ukraine would never get.

Best of all both strategies are described as being - not about winning anymore - but somehow getting the Russians to negotiate. Which is rather ironic in that neither the US or Ukraine has any interest in negotiations.

The article as much as says that neither the US nor Ukraine have any idea what to do next. All they know is that Ukraine will have to fight the war on a much smaller budget and cease any offensive actions. The western media will be entertained with missile strikes.

 

[Suah Noteb]

The article as much as says that neither the US nor Ukraine have any idea what to do next. All they know is that Ukraine will have to fight the war on a much smaller budget and cease any offensive actions. The western media will be entertained with missile strikes.

it's December, 11 months from the US elections. I'm reasonably confident that the Democrats will NOT want a war that's going very badly happening, but they may consider losing badly to be just as terrible.

My prediction is that six months from now Biden and his cronies will be shocked that the war is still going on and going badly - assuming Ukraine doesn't run out of money or men, letting Russia march to Kiev. During this time they will refuse to seriously negotiate or acknowledge reality, and after will become increasingly desperate to end the war or drum up the rapidly diminishing public support for the war. Assuming that no outside events like the Gazacaust interfere (which they likely will), by September or so the Democrats will be begging Russia to take a deal but absolutely shocked Russia won't accept the offered concessions (and realistic concessions offered by Russia are rejected). Something will break, not sure what. Maybe Biden will give Ukraine nukes, maybe Ukraine gets wiped off the map. Maybe the EU chooses to withdraw support even if it causes them to fracture. maybe the war somehow limps on for another year.

 

[Charred Dinosaur]

The article as much as says that neither the US nor Ukraine have any idea what to do next.

Of course they don't. The west has never once had a war that has not led to protests in the streets since Korea. They brainwashed themselves into thinking that the hordes of protesters demanding a end to the war would within a week be riled into overthrowing Putin once the Russian economy collapsed following the oil sanctions and Earth shattering withdrawal of Mcdonalds, and that if the worst came to pass they would just need to send in some fancy wonder weapons and watch as their allies in the 4th reich effortlessly pushed the Russians to Moscow.

Even if some military officials knew the truth (but kept up the yes man act to avoid being sacked as a Russian puppet) the people at the top, the Bidens, AOCs and Kevin Mcarhys of the neoliberal order weren't lying when they said from March 2022 that the war was won. They actually were retarded enough to believe their lies.

They don't have a plan because even if they somehow won they still won't know what to do as when they were finishing their plans to instigate this war back in 2021 they believed that Europe's economy would be fine, that Ukraine wouldn't be too badly damaged and that by 2023 they would be pilfering the resources of a defeated Russia.

And as bad as that is it also explains why they cannot bring themselves to merely imagine what a defeat would look like. They never planned for their stockpiles to be demolished, to prepare for Black Sea ports like Mariuopl and Odessa to be taken back from them or for nations like Saudi Arabia to look at the sanctions as a reason to de-dollerize instead of remaining as just another American client state.

 

[Feline Supremacist]

The article as much as says that neither the US nor Ukraine have any idea what to do next

Just to add to what @Charred Dinosaur posted: this is due to the degradation of America's resources, human and otherwise. They were so used to winning against goatherders (even if it wasn't true) but worse of all they actually believed their grandparents Cold War stories; that Russians were retarded mongol rape babies that would fall apart in the face of superior Western tech and training.

Russia didn't fall apart so the Ukraine is about to be Russian again. I have a feeling they will try to convince Poland to be the new Ukraine but despite my bantz about polacks they aren't that stupid, its just that their leaders tend to be greedy fucks that will sell Poland out for a few dollars.

 

[Buck Breaking SS]

You are minding your business, some guy attacks you, demanding money. After an initial shock, you start beating him up. He still demands money. He is on the ground. He demands money. He can't move. He demands money. Leaving, you hear his broken screams. "I won! Now hand over your mo...".

 

[There Is Light At The End]

You are minding your business, some guy attacks you, demanding money. After an initial shock, you start beating him up. He still demands money. He is on the ground. He demands money. He can't move. He demands money. Leaving, you hear his broken screams. "I won! Now hand over your mo...".

No, it was going something like that:
2014: coup with Donbass and Lugansk throwing a fit about it. Ukraine maidans itself a new and improved president Po(a)ro(a)shenko, an oligarch, famous for making Roshe brand candy. Antiterrorist operation begins.
2014-2022: Ukraine going after Donbass and Lugansk.
24th February 2022: Russia intervenes on behalf of those. Fumbles decapitation strike, more sanctions imposed, entire western world goes full retard Slava ukulele and seizure of Russian assets begins.
March of 2022: goobergate style articles starts flowing about:

1. Russia finished
2. Russia bad, Ukraine is heckin' wholesome big chungus, who dindu nuffin and such a gud boi
3. Russia out of *insert anything*
4. Russia weak, behold our new wunderwaffle

April to October: "Bakhmut is an impenetrable fortress. You need to be either Thanos or have a Starkiller base to even put a dent to it". And then Wagner shows up.
After that it's a grind. Also, there was a Kherson withdrawal. Nothing worth mentioning, besides boasts about holding it initially and taking a racoon Khersi

 

[Corn Syrup Connoisseur]

Latest wunderwaffle obtained by Ukraine is a formerly demilitarized Wiesel tankette.

Reddit is enjoying it.

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

You are minding your business, some guy attacks you, demanding money. After an initial shock, you start beating him up. He still demands money. He is on the ground. He demands money. He can't move. He demands money. Leaving, you hear his broken screams. "I won! Now hand over your mo...".

What's Zelensky going to do? Bleed on Putin?!

 

[Eternal Gopnik]

View attachment 5560072
Latest wunderwaffle obtained by Ukraine is a formerly demilitarized Wiesel tankette.

Reddit is enjoying it.
View attachment 5560077
View attachment 5560083
View attachment 5560080

Two years ago I thought War Thunder players were mildly annoying. Now I hate them with the burning passion of a thousand suns.

 

[Tamerlane]

Two years ago I thought War Thunder players were mildly annoying. Now I hate them with the burning passion of a thousand suns.

They know all Steiner needs for the counter attack are some pregnant women and geriatrics with a week of training and a dozen or so 40 year old armored cars sourced from a scrap heap.

 

[Strix454]

View attachment 5560072
Latest wunderwaffle obtained by Ukraine is a formerly demilitarized Wiesel tankette.

Reddit is enjoying it.
View attachment 5560077
View attachment 5560083
View attachment 5560080

The Ukrainians were demanding Wiesels back in the spring. They envisioned using them to mop up Russian infantry after Leopards broke through the front line during the counteroffensive. They also talked about them as scout vehicles for the Leopard columns as they made their way to the Sea of Azov.

Now I guess they are going to be a defensive super-weapon.

For Germany, its a financially attractive way to get rid of an obsolete weapons system that would otherwise be scrapped. Nobody would buy them secondhand.

 

[Corn Syrup Connoisseur]

For Germany, its a financially attractive way to get rid of an obsolete weapons system that would otherwise be scrapped. Nobody would buy them secondhand.

Funny thing is, as much as I can gather, this isn't a donation by the German state. I specifically said demilitarized for a reason.
These are privately purchased hulls from a company that is also trying to sell Panhard EBR hulls.

 

[Strix454]

Funny thing is, as much as I can gather, this isn't a donation by the German state. I specifically said demilitarized for a reason.
These are privately purchased hulls from a company that is also trying to sell Panhard EBR hulls.

I missed that part. I guess there is a secondary market for this stuff. Some company in Poland is selling one and has a second hull they are restoring.

LINK

They are also selling Panhards, Leopards, a Marder, a 90mm Kannonenjagdpanzer and other vehicles.

 

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

Most of those assessments are correct though. Russia needed to get a proper flow of equipment into the conflict more than it needed meat with barely any gear. As for the US intelligence, we all know that its a big benefit for Ukraine and likely the only reason they've been able to organize a defense as well as they have, destroying all objects in LEO is retarded though. As for the oil, I don't think he has been wrong on that to a degree, OPEC keeps cutting but the price per barrel continues to drop, albeit from absolutely insane heights to slightly horrendous. The USSR imploded largely because the 80s-90s oil slump ruined their budget, a heavy drop in oil is equally detrimental to Russia and a global recession would play into that, Russia took quite a hit on their budget post 2008 and didn't do so well all through Trump's presidency since he kept oil artificially low.

What's so wrong about destroying global satellite infrastructure? It's being used for bad purposes and in the long run would actually accelerate space development since we'd be building bigger rockets to punch through it plus deploying high-altitude lasers to clean it up. Once it's cleaned up, all those powerful rockets can be retooled for even more payloads like the sort Elon wants with Starship or NASA had with the Saturn V. Win-win for everyone beside faggots like telecom companies and the US government.

At the same time, Ukrainian officials are examining strategies that build on their successful deep strikes on Crimea last fall. They are searching for creative ways to keep Russia off balance with attacks against arms factories, weapons depots and train lines for moving munitions, and to score symbolic victories. One Ukrainian former senior military official declined to discuss the proposals but said the new plan is being refined and is “very daring.”

LMAO "symbolic victories." Time for more photo-ops of Ukrops planting flags in the middle of nowhere and war kayak attacks on Russians!

 

[Stasi]

Yeah, a lot of Germen manufactures have been keeling over for more then a year now. And overal entire EU's manufacturing arm is filled now with Zombie corporations at this point.

tfw you've done everything in your power to destroy the German economy

 

[Ancient Pioneer]

What's so wrong about destroying global satellite infrastructure? It's being used for bad purposes and in the long run would actually accelerate space development since we'd be building bigger rockets to punch through it plus deploying high-altitude lasers to clean it up. Once it's cleaned up, all those powerful rockets can be retooled for even more payloads like the sort Elon wants with Starship or NASA had with the Saturn V. Win-win for everyone beside faggots like telecom companies and the US government.

There is basically zero objects we can lift into space that could handle a fragment of metal the size of a shoe moving at 10 miles per second smashing into it. This is one of those situations that literally every actor involved agrees that the slim chance of blinding the opposition is not worth the future potential of space exploration being denied for eternity. The agreement not to weaponize space is one of the most prudent things ever put on paper and we can only pray that assholes abide by it.

 

[Charred Dinosaur]

If they are excited for a 70's era tankette that didn't even reach 350 produced units then it is now undeniable that redditors automatically believe that if something is produced by NATO it is magically good and if is made by the unwholesome Easterners it is bad.

"You're doomed now Putler, my Kruppsteel unit bonus grants me a plus 20 armor save, while you suffer from -69 to all your attributes for not having the LGBT safe space modifier"

 

[Battlecruiser3000ad]

My apologies for reducing my disappointment over the Current Year state of wonder weapons to a silly dog picture