Russian Special Military Operation in the Ukraine - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

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Remember when Ukrainians claimed they only lost 10% of Leopards in the counteroffensyiiv? Now Spiegel reports only a few of them are even usable anymore.

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More internal political problems in Ukraine being reported by western media.
Abridged:
The task of raising men for the armed forces has become something of a hot potato in Kyiv, tossed back and forth between Ukraine’s political leaders and its top military commanders.

Neither side appears to be willing to take full responsibility for drafting hundreds of thousands of perhaps reluctant Ukrainians to serve in a grim, grinding war.

The tussle began on December 19 when President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said at his year-end press conference that Ukrainian army chiefs had requested the conscription of 450,000 to 500,000 men.

Zelenskyy’s Servant of the People party, however, seems loath to take ownership of the bill. Its MPs were instructed not to comment on it and instead refer journalists’ questions to military commanders, according to the Ukrainian Truth media outlet.

The day after the conscription legislation was published, General Valeriy Zaluzhny, commander-in-chief of the armed forces, was wheeled out to defend it in a TV interview and at his first press conference since February 2022.

Up until then, Zaluzhny had been largely kept out of the media spotlight, with a few exceptions, notably a November interview with The Economist in which he described the war at a “stalemate”, a taboo word in government circles which enraged the president.

Asked about the 450,000-500,000 number cited by Zelenskyy, the general said he “did not make any request for any figures”. Revealing any numbers would amount to divulging a military secret, he added.

He also distanced the armed forces from provisions in the bill to expand the conscription orders to Ukrainians living abroad and to impose tougher sanctions on draft dodgers. These were questions for lawmakers to address, he added.
 
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Remember when Ukrainians claimed they only lost 10% of Leopards in the counteroffensyiiv? Now Spiegel reports only a few of them are even usable anymore.
So, let me get this straight. I kinda had this Leo 2 thing blocked out of my mind because virtually any German media outlet is insufferable when it comes to their constant, unrelenting sucking off of unwashed Ukrainian cock.

The best Germany of all times (TM) sent their Wunderwaffe tank to Ukraine and the fucking Ukies expected it to kick ass and take names without the immense logistical and technical support network (which includes trained mechanics that know how to fix stuff when one of the countless computers decides it doesn't wanna play anymore) a modern, highly complex MBT like the Leo 2 requires?

I never served in the military nor am I some kind of armchair General but what in the name of fuck are these clowns smoking? Did they expect it's like in an RTS like Command & Conquer or whatever where you just need the tanks and you're set to roll in on the enemy's base?

BRB - burning my passport.
I'll collect my top hats later.
 
The best Germany of all times (TM) sent their Wunderwaffe tank to Ukraine and the fucking Ukies expected it to kick ass and take names without the immense logistical and technical support network (which includes trained mechanics that know how to fix stuff when one of the countless computers decides it doesn't wanna play anymore) a modern, highly complex MBT like the Leo 2 requires?
And they are about to repeat this scenario, but worse with F-16s.
 
an ad-hoc one assembled just for the purpose. Similar idea to the Sum of All Fears
No offense but this idea is incredibly retarded (ofc, Clancy novels were ghost written by spooks).
You don't think the feds snapped em up ?
USA are going to be blamed
  1. It's incredibly difficult to create a working nuke that will actually blow up as expected.
  2. Radiation is monitored by various official and unofficial agencies/groups all over the world

Because of No 1 it would immediately assumed to be a state actor, and everyone will focus on the most likely culprit-the USA. As for No 2 it would be incredibly hard to hide where any nuke (fissile) material came from. I hope the neocon who got banished to Tamaulipas, Mexico isn't posting here because if you are, let me remind you: you are a retard.
 
  1. It's incredibly difficult to create a working nuke that will actually blow up as expected.
  2. Radiation is monitored by various official and unofficial agencies/groups all over the world

Because of No 1 it would immediately assumed to be a state actor, and everyone will focus on the most likely culprit-the USA. As for No 2 it would be incredibly hard to hide where any nuke (fissile) material came from.

A dirty bomb is much more likely I would think.
There's enough material unaccounted for (from the soviet era Beta-M RTGs for example) or much easier to obtain than fissile material that you then have to get to have the desired chain reaction. Not saying it would be easy, but if they were to do a 'false flag' then a dirty bomb would give the same area-denial and economic damage effect vs the additional logistical and technical headache of an actual nuke.
 
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Its my understanding you cant really false flag a nuke. They give off radiation signatures that tie back to the facility they were made at in the fallout.

IOW everyone would know it was a US nuke and if it wasnt immediately armageddon and had time to check. They would have to do some Call of Duty shit and steal some from Russia, China, India to not make it immediately obvious it was a false flag.

That's absolutely true (I addressed this), but they don't need to keep up the farce for a long time. It was proved that there were no WMD in Iraq. Consequences? Exactly.

What, and blame Russia? How? Ivan hit the wrong button at Kremlin Kontrol? Putin said "Suka it let's do it blyat"? Dmitry Medvedev found some 1812 vintage vodka, got hammered and decided it was time? :story:

I mean you could convince the average burger of anything but there's no one else that would fall for it and it risks worldwide nuclear war as all the nukes in Europe ain't shit compared to Russia, and China, sending them to US and Europe. No, the neocon tard that argued for it has been silenced some time ago and sent to Mexico to make sure the cartels give the spooks their proper cut.

You're quite right in that it's a crazy ass scenario that no sane person would take.
I'm worried about the detached-from-reality psychopathic elite that thought sacrificing 1M+ ukrainians is the best investment they can make.

If there was a three letter agency which wanted to go down this path you wouldn't have it originate from a known facility, you'd have an ad-hoc one assembled just for the purpose. Similar idea to the Sum of All Fears:
- Have some "misplaced" fissile material end up in the hands of ingenious zealots with a nuclear engineering hobby
- Turn a blind eye when they create the bomb, ship it to the target, and let loose
- Make profit by being able to pin it with evidence on the country/group of choice

Plenty of places such a scheme can go wrong (e.g. unaware third parties preemptively discovering it), but it's scarily doable, particularly if one is willing to plan it out over several years in order to let said zealots enrich a batch of raw uranium. Like say in Iran.

I'll just leave this here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
(There were some other conspiracy theory where the US "lost" a nuke in transit and wanted to detonate it in an US city, but I can't find it)

When the underwater pipeline was bombed everyone suspected it was America right away, and those suspicions have not been properly denied. If some place gets nuked with no warning it's going to obviously be America's fault.

Exactly my point.
The Nordstream 2 job was obviously an US op, yet they blamed ... Russia, because who the fuck wouldn't blow up their own billion dollar infrastructure for propaganda reasons.
EU cucked and kept silently "investigating", then nothing happened. In the end, they blamed it on Taras and Mikola with their fishing boat and bundle of TNT.

Other sane nations obviously wouldn't buy it, but it might be enough to drag the US and EU into the war.
I'm not saying that any sane individual would even consider this shit, I'm worried about the sanity of certain officials in power positions.
 
I'm pretty sure the Have Your Say section on the BBC is just bots and bots and more bots. I refuse to believe my fellow countrymen are *that* stupid
Well, plenty of people in the UK are indeed that stupid. However, that gives rise to the philosophical question of: are they in fact your countrymen (Blacks and Pakis and Gypsies)?; also, since none of those people actually read, who is it that is leaving these comments? - White Britons? - Bots? - Paid agitators? - Danger Hairs doing it for SocJus?
 
There's enough material unaccounted for (from the soviet era Beta-M RTGs for example)
Russia may be a lot of things but half-assed isn't one of them. Best they might be able to do would be to frame anyone/group doing this as Russian sympathizers, which doesn't really serve their purpose.

At some point they'll just cut their losses and move onto the next thing.
 
So, let me get this straight. I kinda had this Leo 2 thing blocked out of my mind because virtually any German media outlet is insufferable when it comes to their constant, unrelenting sucking off of unwashed Ukrainian cock.

The best Germany of all times (TM) sent their Wunderwaffe tank to Ukraine and the fucking Ukies expected it to kick ass and take names without the immense logistical and technical support network (which includes trained mechanics that know how to fix stuff when one of the countless computers decides it doesn't wanna play anymore) a modern, highly complex MBT like the Leo 2 requires?

I never served in the military nor am I some kind of armchair General but what in the name of fuck are these clowns smoking? Did they expect it's like in an RTS like Command & Conquer or whatever where you just need the tanks and you're set to roll in on the enemy's base?

BRB - burning my passport.
I'll collect my top hats later.

@Jet Fuel Johnny has hilarious stories from BITD about German tankers bragging up a storm about how kickass their tanks were, and then those fancy ladies not even being capable of doing combat exercises because they didn't have the parts to keep the few they had running. So apparently, even at the height of the Cold War, German armor was a joke, so it doesn't surprise me in the slightest that Germany can't keep a few dozen tanks running during war time.

And yes, they do basically think it's like a video game. The thing about manufacturing & logistics is it's complicated, difficult and, to anyone with an Ivy League graduate degree, boring as fuck. Moreover, we're coming off nigh on 30 years now of consistent messaging that anyone who knows things about making things out of steel is a fucking idiot stuck in the past who needs 33-year-old women in smart-looking skirt suits to tell him what's what. Anyone who's actually capable of understanding the gravity of the supply chain situation in NATO is not the sort of person who has the patience for DEI struggle sessions and has long ago been expelled from the place where he could have made a difference.
 
I'll just leave this here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
(There were some other conspiracy theory where the US "lost" a nuke in transit and wanted to detonate it in an US city, but I can't find it)
That was stopped because even Kennedy saw how absolutely retarded it was.

False flags are difficult and someone always talks. The German false flag in Poland in 1939 was hilarious in its incompetence.

National propoganda campaigns are much easier and more effective, see the Arab states post 1947, various S. American countries going to war post 1950, the Indo-Pakistani wars, and the Ethiopian -Somali war.

Or you just order the military to attack and that's that.
how kickass their tanks were, and then those fancy ladies not even being capable of doing combat exercises because they didn't have the parts to keep the few they had running. So apparently, even at the height of the Cold War, German armor was a joke, so it doesn't surprise me in the slightest that Germany can't keep a few dozen tanks running during war time.

And yes, they do basically think it's like a video game. The thing about manufacturing & logistics is it's complicated, difficult and, to anyone with an Ivy League graduate degree, boring as fuck. Moreover, we're coming off nigh on 30 years now of consistent messaging that anyone who knows things about making things out of steel is a fucking idiot stuck in the past who needs 33-year-old women in smart-looking skirt suits to tell him what's what. Anyone who's actually capable of understanding the gravity of the supply chain situation in NATO is not the sort of person who has the patience for DEI struggle sessions and has long ago been expelled from the place where he could have made a difference
Post 1992 the German military became a JOKE and is known as a well armed pension fund or a parade Army.

Honestly they could ship every single tank, IFV, SPH, and all ammunition they have to Ukraine and Germany would be better off.
 
The best Germany of all times (TM) sent their Wunderwaffe tank to Ukraine and the fucking Ukies expected it to kick ass and take names without the immense logistical and technical support network (which includes trained mechanics that know how to fix stuff when one of the countless computers decides it doesn't wanna play anymore) a modern, highly complex MBT like the Leo 2 requires?

- The tanks are not designed for long-term service in a war. They are designed for wars that last maybe a couple months.
- There are no spare parts inventories for the tanks in germany or anywhere else. Like stockpiling ammunition, stockpiling spare parts was considered an inefficient use of money in Germany.
- There is no logistical or technical support network even in Germany for the tanks that can operate at the necessary scale to support a real war. All future wars forever were supposed to be against rock farmers in Afghanistan armed with Lee-Enfield Rifles. Nobody among the brain trust anticipated ever fighting a real war again. For years, many have questioned why tanks were necessary at all.
- The whole concept of fixing battle damaged equipment - like tanks - is completely alien to the military establishment and associated companies. The model for decades was that if something is seriously broke, you just throw it away and get a new one.

The german government is a slave government of an occupied country. When it was told to destroy its own economy at the start of the Ukraine conflict, it obeyed without question.
 
Well, plenty of people in the UK are indeed that stupid. However, that gives rise to the philosophical question of: are they in fact your countrymen (Blacks and Pakis and Gypsies)?; also, since none of those people actually read, who is it that is leaving these comments? - White Britons? - Bots? - Paid agitators? - Danger Hairs doing it for SocJus?
I honestly think the BBC is infested with Ukr bots. If you look at other comments sections (for example the Mail), it's a lot more realistic.
 
@Jet Fuel Johnny has hilarious stories from BITD about German tankers bragging up a storm about how kickass their tanks were, and then those fancy ladies not even being capable of doing combat exercises because they didn't have the parts to keep the few they had running. So apparently, even at the height of the Cold War, German armor was a joke, so it doesn't surprise me in the slightest that Germany can't keep a few dozen tanks running during war time.
Emphasis on West Germans here.
The german government is a slave government of an occupied country. When it was told to destroy its own economy at the start of the Ukraine conflict, it obeyed without question.
Germany died on October 3rd, 1990.
 
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