Are Viruses Real?

I kinda let you off easy...You had one chance to be regarded as anything other than "bad faith person with human skull pfp" and you fucked it up.

So, good luck trying to get me to take you seriously now. 👍
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A FAREWELL TO VIROLOGY
(EXPERT EDITION)
Dr Mark Bailey
Full Document Here
I've no idea how to archive PDFs/upload them to the site so if anybody knows, feel free to share.
Virology invented the virus model but has consistently failed to fulfil its own requirements. It is claimed that viruses cause disease after transmittng between hosts such as humans and yet the scientific evidence for these claims is missing. One of virology’s greatest failures has been the inability to obtain any viral particles directly from the tissues of organisms said to have “viral” diseases. In order to obfuscate this state of affairs, virologists have resorted to creating their own pseudoscientific methods to replace the longstanding scientific method, as well as changing the dictionary meaning of words in order to support their anti-scientific practices. For instance, an “isolated” isolate does not require the physical existence of the particles in order to be afforded “isolation” status.

A viral particle must fulfil defined physical and biological properties including being a replication-competent intracellular parasite capable of causing disease in a host such as a human. However, “viruses” such as SARS-CoV-2 are nothing more than phantom constructs, existing only in imaginations and computer simulations. In this paradigm, cases of invented diseases like COVID-19 are nothing more than the detection of selected genetic sequences and proteins purported to be “viral.” The existence of a virus is not required in this loop of circular reasoning and thus entire “pandemics” can be built upon digital creations and falsely sustained through in vitro (“test tube”) molecular reactions.

This essay contains three parts. Part One outlines some of the history of virology and the failures of the virologists to follow the scientific method. The many and far-reaching claims of the virologists can all be shown to be flawed due to: (a) the lack of direct evidence, and (b) the invalidation of indirect “evidence” due to the uncontrolled nature of the experiments. The examples provided cover all major aspects of the virological fraud including alleged isolation, cytopathic effects, genomics, antibodies, and animal pathogenicity studies.
Part Two examines the fraud used to propagate the COVID-19 “pandemic.” A breakdown of the methodology relied upon by the original inventors Fan Wu et al., shows how the fictional SARS-CoV-2 was “created” through anti-scientific methods and linguistic sleights of hands. It is part of an ongoing deception where viruses are claimed to exist by templating them against previous “virus” templates. Using SARS-CoV-2 as an example, the trail of “coronavirus” genomic templates going back to the 1980s reveals that none of these genetic sequences have ever been shown to come from inside any viral particle — the phylogenetic trees are fantasies. The misapplication of the polymerase chain reaction has propagated this aspect of virology’s fraud and created the ‘cases’ to maintain the illusion of a pandemic.
Part Three provides an analysis of how some key participants, “health” institutions, and the mainstream media maintain the virus illusion through information control and narratives that parrot virology’s claims. By way of happenstance, the virological fraud now finds itself front and centre of the COVID-19 fraud. From here, however, it can be critically appraised by those outside virology and the pseudo-scientific paradigm virology has built around itself can finally be dismantled and laid to rest.

The aim of this essay is to provide refutations to various claims that pathogenic viruses exist and cause disease. SARS-CoV-2 has been used as the main example but the principles apply to all alleged viruses. What follows addresses virology’s often arcane literature on its own terms, which, it should be said, may make parts of this essay somewhat heavy reading. However, it is hoped that this contribution will fill a niche for the reader seeking a more technical understanding of the virus hypothesis as it seeks to expose the very foundation of purported pandemics and fraudulent medical practices. The threat of virology to humanity is increasing so it is time we bid farewell to these destructive pseudoscientific practices and free ourselves from unnecessary fears.
Not much to say, it's an abstract. There's a lot of strangely emotive language in it which feels out of place in a scientific paper. But again, this could be normal and my ignorance could be working against me. Let's get to the meat.
As of 11 September 2022 and following extensive enquiries through Freedom of Information (FOI) requests coordinated by Christine Massey, not one of 209 mainly health or science institutions in over 35 countries have been able to provide direct evidence of the alleged SARS-CoV-2 virus. The institutions were asked to produce any documents demonstrating, “the purification of ‘SARS-CoV-2’ said to have caused disease in humans (via maceration, filtration, and use of an ultracentrifuge; also referred to at times by some people as ‘isolation’), directly from a diseased human…” On many occasions, following an admission that no such evidence is held, institutions such as the New Zealand Ministry of Health then suggest that, “there are several examples of the virus being isolated and cultured in a laboratory setting.” However, the examples referred to are universally Essue culture proxy experiments, in which the word ‘isolation’ has become detached from its understood meaning and it has not been demonstrated that any particle, imaged or imagined, has the properties of a disease-causing virus. In any case, it is a distraction from the wider issue exposed by the FOI requests, which is that particles claimed to be viruses can never be found in human subjects. Virology has made excuses for this missing evidence but even allowing for this embarrassing deficiency, it is running out of places to hide as its various methodologies are increasingly scrutinised by those outside the field. This essay outlines the many aspects of virology’s anti-science that have been employed to maintain the illusion that pathogenic viruses exist. The situation has become increasingly dangerous and since early 2020, the COVID-19 “pandemic" has been used as a Trojan horse to bring humanity to its knees.
This section opens with a quote from the aforementioned Settling The Virus Debate statement:
Perhaps the primary evidence that the pathogenic viral theory is problematic is that no published scientific paper has ever shown that particles fulfilling the definition of viruses have been directly isolated and purified from any tissues or bodily fluids of any sick human or animal. Using the commonly accepted definition of “isolation”, which is the separation of one thing from all other things, there is general agreement that this has never been done in the history of virology.
Again this is all baseless accusations thus far, but it isn't a part of the paper proper so who cares? It looks nice at the top of the page and that's likely its sole purpose. Following this the paper begins:
As of 11 September 2022 and following extensive enquiries through Freedom of Information (FOI) requests coordinated by Christine Massey, not one of 209 mainly health or science institutions in over 35 countries have been able to provide direct evidence of the alleged SARS-CoV-2 virus. The institutions were asked to produce any documents demonstrating, “the purification of ‘SARS-CoV-2’ said to have caused disease in humans (via maceration, filtration, and use of an ultracentrifuge; also referred to at times by some people as ‘isolation’), directly from a diseased human…” On many occasions, following an admission that no such evidence is held, institutions such as the New Zealand Ministry of Health then suggest that, “there are several examples of the virus being isolated and cultured in a laboratory setting.”
As I said a paper is nothing without its citations. And there are two citations linked in the above snippet, the first of which is a link to an article on a website called fluoridefreepeel.ca, wherein the previously mentioned Christine Massey claims that:

220 health/science institutions worldwide all failed to cite even 1 record of “SARS-COV-2” purification, by anyone, anywhere, ever​

Bold claim, and the article itself carries on in a similar vein, the only relevant bits being a link to an excel file listing the 220 institutions Massey interrogated and another link to another article. So I click the second link which leads me to

FOIs reveal that health/science institutions around the world (220 and counting!) have no record of SARS-COV-2 isolation/purification, anywhere, ever​

Still a bold claim. This article opens with a bitchute video which I'll link here because my dumb ass doesn't know how to archive as of yet. After that we finally get to a point.
Would a sane person mix a patient sample (containing various sources of genetic material and never proven to contain any alleged “virus”) with transfected monkey kidney cells, fetal bovine serum and toxic drugs, then claim that the resulting concoction is “SARS-COV-2 isolate” and ship it off internationally for use in critical research (including vaccine and test development)?


Because that’s the sort of fraudulent monkey business that’s being passed off as “virus isolation” by research teams around the world.


Just 1 of many examples is shown below – this is from a study cited by the Australian Department of Health as a paper “which led to the isolation of SARS-CoV-2 in culture“. (Can you spot the oxymoron in that quote?)
As it happens I can't spot the oxymoron. This isn't my field so maybe that quote is baffling to anybody who knows anything about virology, same as this example Christine mentions.
VIDRL-isolation.jpg
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems as if Christine asked for proof, was given proof, and decided that the proof she was given wasn't good enough. I suppose the issue is that it was isolated in culture and not a human being.
Every institution has failed to provide or cite even 1 record describing the isolation aka purification of the alleged “COVID-19 virus” directly from a patient sample that was not first adulterated with other sources of genetic material. (Those other sources are typically monkey kidney aka “Vero” cells and fetal bovine serum).
But I digress, if you want to read that article for yourself it's here.
Our first citation is an article linking to another article. I've no idea if this sort of reference adultery is normal in scientific papers but as an outsider it feels sloppy. Why not simply link to the relevant article? The second citation is a link to a big fuckoff google drive file containing all of Massey's FOI requests. This is not helpful to me, a neophyte. But feel free to dig through it at your leisure.
However, the examples referred to are universally tissue culture proxy experiments, in which the word ‘isolation’ has become detached from its understood meaning and it has not been demonstrated that any particle, imaged or imagined, has the properties of a disease-causing virus. In any case, it is a distraction from the wider issue exposed by the FOI requests, which is that particles claimed to be viruses can never be found in human subjects. Virology has made excuses for this missing evidence but even allowing for this embarrassing deficiency, it is running out of places to hide as its various methodologies are increasingly scrutinised by those outside the field. This essay outlines the many aspects of virology’s anti-science that have been employed to maintain the illusion that pathogenic viruses exist. The situation has become increasingly dangerous and since early 2020, the COVID-19 “pandemic" has been used as a Trojan horse to bring humanity to its knees.
Again more loaded language, scare quotes and, as far as I can tell, no definitive proof. I feel like a scientific paper shouldn't feel like a persuasive essay, but from their perspective this is a matter of life and death, so maybe it's prudent that they mix science with rhetoric. Maybe the proof lies in those citations or in a later section. I'll have to wait to find out because holy shit is the next section long and looking at walls of text for this long is making my eyes dance. Anybody with the requisite autism, however, can have a free preview of the next section right here:
The defence of virology’s methodologies is obviously agempted by its promoters, including New Zealand government and state-funded media’s favoured microbiologist Siouxsie Wiles. Her employer, the University of Auckland, is among those institutions who have now confirmed that, “[it] has not done any work relating to the purification of any Covid-19 virus,” and therefore has neither found in, nor isolated from, any human subject the so-called virus named SARS-CoV-2. This associate professor, who advised the country that, “the world is on fire,” in March 2020, was ordained New Zealander of the Year in 2021 for, “helping millions globally see past the fear and complexities of the pandemic…and helping to keep us safe.” In her November 2020 article, “Koch’s postulates, COVID, and misinformation rabbit holes,” Wiles alleged that, “the people asking for evidence of the existence of the SARS-CoV-2 virus responsible for COVID-19 are specifically wording their request to rule out obtaining any evidence that the virus exists.” Her article quickly went off on a tangent about Koch’s Postulates being unsuitable for viruses and she thus declared them as invalid in that context. It is unclear why she did not mention Rivers Postulates, which were designed specifically to include viruses, although perhaps because she would have to admit that these postulates have never been fulfilled either. And while Koch’s Postulates relate to the establishment of disease-causation and contagion, rather than the specific issue of whether viral particles can be found in or from human subjects, she could have simply explained that the virologists have spent much of the 20th century trying to identify viruses directly from sick humans without any success. Wiles then fallaciously introduced Falkow’s Molecular Postulates into her argument, providing no explanation as to how they could be employed to demonstrate the physical existence of the claimed SARS-CoV-2 in a human or anywhere else. Awkwardly for Wiles, the World Health Organization (WHO) stated in 2003 that with regard to SARS-CoV-1, “conclusive identification of a causative [agent] must meet all criteria in the so-called ‘Koch’s Postulate [sic].’ The additional experiments needed to fulfil these criteria are currently under way at a laboratory in the Netherlands.” The WHO’s article was removed from its website without explanation in 2021 but is still able to be accessed through the Internet Archive. The fanciful claim that Koch’s Postulates were met in 2003 by Fouchier et al. with SARS-CoV-1 has been refuted elsewhere. Their monkey experiment was not only invalidated by its lack of controls and unnatural exposure route but like all virology publications, they failed to demonstrate a particle that met the definition of a virus. Wiles also appeared to be at odds with Na Zhu et al., one of the first teams that claimed to have discovered SARS-CoV-2, because they conceded that, “although our study does not fulfill Koch’s postulates, our analyses provide evidence implicating 2019-nCoV [later ‘SARS-CoV-2’] in the Wuhan outbreak. Additional evidence to confirm the etiologic significance of 2019-nCoV in the Wuhan outbreak include... animal (monkey) experiments to provide evidence of pathogenicity.”

— However, whether different virologists want to entertain the validity of Koch’s Postulates or not, it is simply another distraction as the postulates require the physical isolation of a microbe rather than assertions that one exists through means such as computer simulations, imaging vesicles of unknown biological function, or claiming that unpurified biological soups given to animals contain “viruses”.

Wiles also decided to champion virology’s blatant misuse of the word ‘isolation’ when she stated, “as for using isolation in the every-day sense of the word, rather than the definition that is relevant to the question being asked? Well, that’s just bloody ridiculous and a clear sign these requests for
evidence are not being made in good faith.” She appeared to be incredulous that others had pointed out that the definition of a word being used scientifically was unilaterally changed by the virologists to imply a certain proof was obtained. However, if their use of isolation does not mean
what most people think it means, then it is likely that most of the public are being misinformed. On this account, Wiles is an active participant in promulgating disinformation, whether it is an act of wilful blindness or otherwise. Wiles needs to show her hand as an expert and explain to the
public what the definition of isolation in virology means, in particular with regard to demonstrating the putative existence of viruses. Perhaps she thinks she did explain when she wrote, “when virologists want to isolate a virus from a sample they’ll take the sample or some part of it and add
it to some cells – usually ones that are relatively easy to grow in the lab – and then look to see if the cells die and/or if there are any virus particles released into the liquid nutrient bath the cells are growing in.” It is unclear if Wiles is implying that the “virus isolate” is established by: (a) the
taking of the sample, (b) seeing some cells die in vitro, (c) the release of claimed “virus particles” in the tissue culture, or (d) all or some combination of these elements. However, nothing she described requires the existence of viruses — it is a game of deception, whether realised or not. It
simply involves the assertion that a virus was in the sample, blaming the breakdown of experimentally stressed cells in the test tube on the imagined virus, and then declaring that some of the vesicles (whose biological composition and function were not established) were the viruses.
There is a further fatal flaw in this exercise. As this essay will detail, the claims that SARS-CoV-2 has been shown to exist through this methodology are all scientifically invalid as none of the experiments were performed with valid controls.
This is exemplary of how Wiles has acted in her role as one of the key influencers for the New Zealand government’s disinformation campaign and its murderous rollout programme of an injectable product called ComirnatyTM – claiming that non-specific tissue culture experiments
verify the existence of the virus when nothing of the kind has been demonstrated. The issue extends beyond just SARS-CoV-2 — every virus asserted to exist relies on similar pseudoscience. The history of virology reveals that the types of cells eventually selected for these experiments
have been those that have a propensity to breakdown with the claim of virus-induced ‘cytopathic effects’ (CPEs), rather than those that are, “relatively easy to grow in the lab,” as Wiles claimed in her article. For example, Vero E6 monkey cells have long been favoured by virologists, supposedly due to their “suitability” to host many viruses, but suspiciously also, because the aneuploid19 kidney line is more susceptible to toxic insults from additional ingredients such as the ubiquitous nephrotoxic antibiotics and antifungals added to the culture mix. When one group agempted to culture SARS-CoV-2, they had no desired result with human adenocarcinoma cells (A549), human liver cells (HUH7.0), human embryonic kidney cells (HEK-293T), and a big brown bat kidney cell line (EFK3B), but then declared they had a “viral isolate” following the observation of CPEs in Vero E6 cells. As is typical, there seemed to be no sense of irony for them that the purported human respiratory virus cannot be shown to “infect” the relevant cell type, let alone the relevant species.
And their experiments were once again invalidated by the absence of appropriate control cultures.
I will say based on my cursory glances that I'm still not seeing any definitive proof that no one has ever isolated a virus ever in the entire history of humanity, but there are citations to comb through and comb through them I will, because I hate myself.
 

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So, if virus don't exist:

- What caused TB? Shit was damn serious, why didn't all those Victorian ladies just sleep and rest and drink plenty of water?
- What causes Malaria?

Tuberculosis is caused by bacteria, not a virus.

Malaria is caused by an unicellular obligate intracellular parasite, not a virus.

I'm seriously starting to question how many people discussing things in this thread even know what a virus is.
 
Since he's a big supporter of mandatory vaccination, I wonder what @Hollywood Hulk Hogan thinks about the existance or non-existance of viruses?
Please summarize, I don't feel like watching a video and giving crazy people clicks. If you can't even summarize a video, do you really even understand the material? Besides, it's counterproductive to having a discussion on the internet if you can't even summarize their own argument, otherwise why aren't you reading a good intro to virology textbook to answer your problems?

Germ theory perfectly explains why Native Americans died in droves since there are many, many accounts from written and oral history described trade between Native Americans that spread disease and killed them despite never having seen a white man. I mean we have the skeletons of dead Native Americans and we can see their health was superb by 19th century standards due to their diet and exercise, why should they all start dropping dead?
We didn't get a satisfying response to this zinger.
OP is literally a faggot (he said so in another thread) so it doesn't surprise me that talk of poz parties makes him uncomfortable because there is a very high likelihood he or his sexual partners have attended them. My guess is OP discovered this line of flat eartherism because he is coping about his disgusting sexual habits (since he has admitted to taking it up the ass and has considered trooning out) and upset his doctor said "please make sure your male partners wear a condom when they stick their penis into your anus."
 
I mean we have the skeletons of dead Native Americans and we can see their health was superb by 19th century standards due to their diet and exercise, why should they all start dropping dead?
No, they were depressed, don't you see? They felt the existential spectre of European conquest lurking over the horizon and just fucking died from the sheer ennui it generated.
 
Since he's a big supporter of mandatory vaccination, I wonder what @Hollywood Hulk Hogan thinks about the existance or non-existance of viruses?
Sorry that, unlike yourself, I don't believe that listening to Tucker Carlson makes one know more about medicine than medical professionals. And I am also sorry that the fact I don't consider Alex Jones to be the epitome of health and wellness makes you seething mad.

Oh, and when are those nanobots that you said the vaccine contains going to kick in? I still remember when you claimed that doozy

But yes, viruses are real. As the rest of your post said, germ theory has been pretty well established as truth
 
germ theory
established as truth
:lit:

Tuberculosis is caused by bacteria, not a virus.

Malaria is caused by an unicellular obligate intracellular parasite, not a virus.

I'm seriously starting to question how many people discussing things in this thread even know what a virus is.
That's just further proof to me that people don't even know what they're arguing for, much less against here.
 
Last edited:
"I don't know what theory means and I'm too stupid to look it up": the post.
"I'm going to strawman with a fake quote. And then I'm going to put a colon outside the quotation marks because that makes sense."

I'd have to say: the intense outrage over an idea running counter to one widely accepted never ceases to amaze and amuse. This thread is a treat.

Thank you, frens.
The establishment is firmly entrenched. I'm really hoping we get more COVID or virus maniac bullshit in the future so these people have to eat their "truth" over and over again.
 
Haha, he probably has you on Ignore now because you faggoted away any good will you never had.

😆
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Honestly you're more tolerable now than when you were "letting me off easy".
I see the (((SCIENCE))) cultists have reared their ugly heads to pooh-pooh all over the brave TRUTH seekers in this thread. Luckily for them, I'm about to drop some mad TRUTH bombs. Because TRUTH is sensation, and making contact with it creates an explosive emotional effect within people. It's like cumming, it's terrific. Let's all cum together, shall we?
The defence of virology’s methodologies is obviously attempted by its promoters, including New Zealand government and state-funded media’s favoured microbiologist Siouxsie Wiles. Her employer, the University of Auckland, is among those institutions who have now confirmed that, “[it] has not done any work relating to the purification of any Covid-19 virus,” and therefore has neither found in, nor isolated from, any human subject the so-called virus named SARS-CoV-2. This associate professor, who advised the country that, “the world is on fire,” in March 2020, was ordained New Zealander of the Year in 2021 for, “helping millions globally see past the fear and complexities of the pandemic…and helping to keep us safe.” In her November 2020 article, “Koch’s postulates, COVID, and misinformation rabbit holes,” Wiles alleged that, “the people asking for evidence of the existence of the SARS-CoV-2 virus responsible for COVID-19 are specifically wording their request to rule out obtaining any evidence that the virus exists.” Her article quickly went off on a tangent about Koch’s Postulates being unsuitable for viruses and she thus declared them as invalid in that context. It is unclear why she did not mention Rivers Postulates, which were designed specifically to include viruses, although perhaps because she would have to admit that these postulates have never been fulfilled either. And while Koch’s Postulates relate to the establishment of disease-causation and contagion, rather than the specific issue of whether viral particles can be found in or from human subjects, she could have simply explained that the virologists have spent much of the 20th century trying to identify viruses directly from sick humans without any success. Wiles then fallaciously introduced Falkow’s Molecular Postulates into her argument, providing no explanation as to how they could be employed to demonstrate the physical existence of the claimed SARS-CoV-2 in a human or anywhere else. Awkwardly for Wiles, the World Health Organization (WHO) stated in 2003 that with regard to SARS-CoV-1, “conclusive identification of a causative [agent] must meet all criteria in the so-called ‘Koch’s Postulate [sic].’ The additional experiments needed to fulfil these criteria are currently under way at a laboratory in the Netherlands.” The WHO’s article was removed from its website without explanation in 2021 but is still able to be accessed through the Internet Archive. The fanciful claim that Koch’s Postulates were met in 2003 by Fouchier et al. with SARS-CoV-1 has been refuted elsewhere. Their monkey experiment was not only invalidated by its lack of controls and unnatural exposure route but like all virology publications, they failed to demonstrate a particle that met the definition of a virus. Wiles also appeared to be at odds with Na Zhu et al., one of the first teams that claimed to have discovered SARS-CoV-2, because they conceded that, “although our study does not fulfill Koch’s postulates, our analyses provide evidence implicating 2019-nCoV [later ‘SARS-CoV-2’] in the Wuhan outbreak. Additional evidence to confirm the etiologic significance of 2019-nCoV in the Wuhan outbreak include... animal (monkey) experiments to provide evidence of pathogenicity.”

— However, whether different virologists want to entertain the validity of Koch’s Postulates or not, it is simply another distraction as the postulates require the physical isolation of a microbe rather than assertions that one exists through means such as computer simulations, imaging vesicles of unknown biological function, or claiming that unpurified biological soups given to animals contain “viruses”.

Wiles also decided to champion virology’s blatant misuse of the word ‘isolation’ when she stated, “as for using isolation in the every-day sense of the word, rather than the definition that is relevant to the question being asked? Well, that’s just bloody ridiculous and a clear sign these requests for
evidence are not being made in good faith.”
The "Part One" is my own addition, as I decided to split this section into two posts due to its length.
The defence of virology’s methodologies is obviously agempted by its promoters, including New Zealand government and state-funded media’s favoured microbiologist Siouxsie Wiles.
There's high-inference language in the title already. I'm sensing some sour grapes.
Let's dial back a bit, to the quote featured before our chat about Siouxsie.
The density gradient centrifugation is the scientifically required standard technique for the demonstration of the existence of a virus. Despite the fact that this method is described in all microbiology manuals as the “virus isolation technique”, it is never applied in experiments meant to demonstrate the existence of pathogenic viruses. — Dr Stefan Lanka, 2015.
Well, maybe Dr Lanka has some insight in this PDF for ants.
Dear God My Eyes.png
You can download it from the site it's featured on if you're keen, but it requires you to sign up and... well... I'm not going to. Looking at this is making my eyes bleed. I figure if I at least point anyone reading in the direction of these resources then I've done some due diligence.
Anyway, Siouxsie Wiles.
Siouxsie_Wiles_MNZN_(cropped).jpg
There's a face you can trust.
Her employer, the University of Auckland, is among those institutions who have now confirmed that, “[it] has not done any work relating to the purification of any Covid-19 virus,” and therefore has neither found in, nor isolated from, any human subject the so-called virus named SARS-CoV-2. This associate professor, who advised the country that, “the world is on fire,” in March 2020, was ordained New Zealander of the Year in 2021 for, “helping millions globally see past the fear and complexities of the pandemic…and helping to keep us safe.”
Sounds like a lovely shill. This snippet cites Massey's article-within-an-article which seems redundant but me dum-dum no understand academia.
In her November 2020 article, “Koch’s postulates, COVID, and misinformation rabbit holes,” Wiles alleged that, “the people asking for evidence of the existence of the SARS-CoV-2 virus responsible for COVID-19 are specifically wording their request to rule out obtaining any evidence that the virus exists.” Her article quickly went off on a tangent about Koch’s Postulates being unsuitable for viruses and she thus declared them as invalid in that context.
This is the kind of dismissive and vitriolic language I expect from a credentialed scientist. He's allegedly a professional and this shit is about as professional as one of my posts. I know professionalism isn't an indicator of being right but how am I supposed to take you seriously as a scientist when you write like I do?
There are a number of citations which I don't think are super relevant, mostly relating to Siouxsie and her many media appearances. Perhaps a subtle jab at how much of an attention whore/government plant she may be?
It is unclear why she did not mention Rivers Postulates, which were designed specifically to include viruses, although perhaps because she would have to admit that these postulates have never been fulfilled either. And while Koch’s Postulates relate to the establishment of disease-causation and contagion, rather than the specific issue of whether viral particles can be found in or from human subjects, she could have simply explained that the virologists have spent much of the 20th century trying to identify viruses directly from sick humans without any success.
That's a nice argument Doctor, how about you back it up with a source? How many times has he mentioned that a virus has never been isolated while not providing any evidence? Is it common knowledge that viruses have never been isolated or is he just pulling this out of his ass?
That aside, he brings up Rivers' Postulates, which based on my own independent research appears to have been an attempt to improve upon Koch's Postulates. How and to what end I'm not sure. Frankly I've no idea what Koch's Postulates actually are at this point. Here is a link to a PDF containing Rivers' article Viruses And Koch's Postulates, for your perusal.
Wiles then fallaciously introduced Falkow’s Molecular Postulates into her argument, providing no explanation as to how they could be employed to demonstrate the physical existence of the claimed SARS-CoV-2 in a human or anywhere else.
A footnote reads:
Falkow’s Molecular Postulates: “(1) The phenotype or property under investigation should be associated with pathogenic members of a genus or pathogenic strains of a species. (2) Specific inactivation of the gene(s) associated with the suspected virulence trait should lead to a measurable loss in pathogenicity or virulence. (3) Reversion or allelic replacement of the mutated gene should lead to restoration of pathogenicity.” - Stanley Falkow, “Molecular Koch's Postulates Applied to Microbial Pathogenicity”, Reviews of Infectious Diseases, Jul-Aug 1988: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3055197/
That's all greek to me. It is interesting that Bailey provides no counter as to why that's so absurd. Another failing of my knowledge I suppose. Let's press on.
Awkwardly for Wiles, the World Health Organization (WHO) stated in 2003 that with regard to SARS-CoV-1, “conclusive identification of a causative [agent] must meet all criteria in the so-called ‘Koch’s Postulate [sic].’ The additional experiments needed to fulfil these criteria are currently under way at a laboratory in the Netherlands.” The WHO’s article was removed from its website without explanation in 2021 but is still able to be accessed through the Internet Archive.
I don't know if linking to the Internet Archive is verboten seeing how they're actively hostile to KF, so I'll leave that link out for now, instead I'll copy the text.

SARS virus close to conclusive identification, new tests for rapid diagnosis ready soon​


On 17 March, WHO established a global network of leading laboratories to collaborate in the identification of the causative agent of severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS).

Early on, labs in the network narrowed the search to members of the paramyxovirus and coronavirus families. Findings shared by network labs earlier this week began pointing, with increasing consistency, to coronaviruses.

“Data from many network laboratories indicate that a coronavirus is the primary cause of the disease,” said WHO virologist and epidemiologist Klaus Stöhr. “This virus is unlike any known human or animal member of this virus family. It is consistently found in specimens from SARS patients from many countries. It has been isolated in cell-culture. We are very close to knowing for sure.”

Conclusive identification of a causative must meet all criteria in the so-called “Koch’s postulate.” The additional experiments needed to fulfil these criteria are currently under way at a laboratory in the Netherlands.

Scientists at Hong Kong University had previously announced, on 21 March, the isolation of a new virus that was strongly suspected to be the causative agent of SARS. The virus was detected in cell culture and by electron microscopy. The identity of the virus was not known at the time.

Earlier this week, researchers at the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) produced strong evidence implicating a coronavirus as the agent that causes SARS. Many labs of the WHO network have since been using molecular tests provided by CDC to confirm the presence of a coronavirus in specimens from patients in various countries.

Rapid progress was also facilitated by the sharing of samples, taken from SARS patients in areas with large numbers of confirmed cases, among participants in the laboratory.

Hong Kong, with 367 patients, many of whom are in intensive care, and 10 deaths remains the most severely affected area.

Sequencing of the virus is ongoing in four laboratories. Results will help classify the virus and refine molecular diagnostic tools. Results will also guide the development of specific interventions.

At present, no treatment beyond good intensive and supportive care has been consistently shown to improve prognosis in persons with SARS.

Scientists in the network suspect that the virus will prove to be an entirely new, or until now undetected, member of the coronavirus family.

Progress in the development of a diagnostic test
Efforts to develop a reliable and easy to use diagnostic test are also moving forward quickly. Hong Kong University, Chinese University, and Public Virus Labs, all located in Hong Kong and all members of the WHO network, have devised a basic diagnostic test. In studies using confirmed SARS patients and healthy controls, results to date have been consistently positive in confirmed cases and consistently negative in the healthy controls. Further testing will begin tomorrow.

The Hong Kong diagnostic test is a molecular test based on the polymerase chain reaction (PCR) technology. Hong Kong scientists have also developed a diagnostic tool using the immunofluorescence assay (IFA) technique. Validation of the test is being facilitated by gene sequences of the PCR primers electronically by laboratories collaborating in the network. The WHO network is offering to make these test materials immediately available to labs in other countries throughout the world

Over the next few days, samples from hundreds of confirmed and suspected SARS cases will be tested using these new diagnostic tools. In so doing, the tools will be further refined and streamlined to upgrade their capacity for daily screening of large numbers of samples.

The PCR test is already showing good reliability in detecting SARS cases in the early days of infection. The IFA test is being used to detect infection in convalescent sera at about three weeks after infection begins. Together, the two tests should help to quickly and safely reassure the many patients the world over who are concerned about suspicious symptoms and yet may be suffering from common illnesses safely treated at home.

Procedures of isolation and strict barrier nursing, recommended by WHO for the management of suspected SARS cases, have placed a heavy burden on health care services in several affected areas.

Update on cases and countries
As of today, a cumulative total of 1408 cases and 53 deaths have been reported from 13 countries. Romania is reporting its first 3 probable cases today. This represents an increase of 85 cases and 4 deaths compared with the previous day.

New data from China
The Chinese Ministry of Health has today officially reported 792 cases and 31 deaths, up to 28 February, in Guangdong Province. Approximately 30% of these cases occurred in health workers.

The Chinese Ministry of Health has further reported on SARS cases in other parts of China. In Beijing, 10 cases and 3 deaths have occurred as of 26 March. Two of these cases are in health workers. In the northern province of Shanxi, four cases, with no deaths, have occurred as of 26 March. Two cases are in health workers.
The fanciful claim that Koch’s Postulates were met in 2003 by Fouchier et al. with SARS-CoV-1 has been refuted elsewhere. Their monkey experiment was not only invalidated by its lack of controls and unnatural exposure route but like all virology publications, they failed to demonstrate a particle that met the definition of a virus. Wiles also appeared to be at odds with Na Zhu et al., one of the first teams that claimed to have discovered SARS-CoV-2, because they conceded that, “although our study does not fulfill Koch’s postulates, our analyses provide evidence implicating 2019-nCoV [later ‘SARS-CoV-2’] in the Wuhan outbreak. Additional evidence to confirm the etiologic significance of 2019-nCoV in the Wuhan outbreak include…animal (monkey) experiments to provide evidence of pathogenicity.”
The first citation in this snippet is to do with the refutation of SARS-CoV-1, which is of course an Odysee video and not a paper. Here's a link to it.
The second citation leads here to a paper called A Novel Coronavirus from Patients with Pneumonia in China, 2019. It's largely made up of pictures so there isn't much for me to talk about. Though I urge you all to give it a gander.
— However, whether different virologists want to entertain the validity of Koch’s Postulates or not, it is simply another distraction as the postulates require the physical isolation of a microbe rather than assertions that one exists through means such as computer simulations, imaging vesicles of unknown biological function, or claiming that unpurified biological soups given to animals contain “viruses”.
So here I guess we see the central bone of contention in this paper. The methodology used to isolate the 'Rona is not adequate, as isolation of the virus has only ever occured through some form of proxy method and has not been directly sampled from a human host. It's hard to say what is correct and what isn't in this instance as Bailey's entire premise is that the very foundations of virology are rickety, so any methodology used by virologists is likely to be seen as fraudulent. From a pragmatic standpoint it's a useful tool to throw out any potential arguments that could be made against you from the scientific community, but if virology is indeed broken at its core then any claims utilizing the established methods are indeed tainted.
But like Bailey we're getting off topic. Let's get back to Siouxsie.
Wiles also decided to champion virology’s blatant misuse of the word ‘isolation’ when she stated, “as for using isolation in the every-day sense of the word, rather than the definition that is relevant to the question being asked? Well, that’s just bloody ridiculous and a clear sign these requests for evidence are not being made in good faith.”
Citation links back to previously referenced piece where Siouxsie (I hate typing this name so much) talks about Koch’s postulates, Covid, and misinformation rabbit holes in an article named Koch’s postulates, Covid, and misinformation rabbit holes. I think I'll cover that and the rest of this section in another post because this one is already getting long. Tune in next time for Siouxsie and the Banshees and the semantic argument over "isolation".
 
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That's certainly a lot of text I won't read. Shame you started out in bad faith, isn't it? Kinda taints everything.
So long as you're doing it for a good reason and not a petty one.
What makes you think I'm doing all this footwork for your sake anyway? You made it clear the second this topic was raised that you were in complete favor of viruses being fraudulent without having even read any of the material so why would I bother trying to convince you otherwise? Hell, you've already made it clear that you don't care what I say, so why bother responding other than due to some weird personal grudge? Is it because I didn't immediately start sucking your dick when you said you liked my pancakes video?
But hey, just post more Top Gear memes or something. That'll show your true intellectual faggotry and erase all traces of strawmanning and ad homina.
I wasn't going to but since you asked so nicely:

I’ve had quite a few messages from people who believe they have evidence that Covid-19, or more specifically the virus responsible, SARS-CoV-2, doesn’t exist. They even believe they have the paperwork to prove it. And that paperwork is convincing if you don’t know otherwise. It comes in the form of Official Information Act requests to governments, universities, and scientific and academic institutions all around the world. But this is no global coverup. Instead it’s a case of the internet finding the work of a German microbiologist who died over a hundred years ago combined with people sticking rigidly to a specific definition of the word isolation.
Let’s start with that German microbiologist. Robert Koch was born in 1843 and by all accounts was a very clever chap. He trained as a doctor before becoming one of the founders of microbiology as a field of experimental science. Before his death in 1910 he made lots of important contributions. In the 1870s he discovered that anthrax was caused by the bacterium Bacillus anthracis, the first time a specific microbe was linked to a specific disease. He followed that up in 1882 with his discovery that the slow-growing bacterium Mycobacterium tuberculosis was the cause of tuberculosis (TB). Better known back then as consumption, TB had long been thought to be a hereditary disease.

Koch’s postulates, aka how to tell whether a microbe causes disease​

Robert Koch is also famous for his “postulates”, the four conditions he and his mentor Jakob Henle postulated had to be met for a microbe to be considered the cause of a disease. It is these postulates that have now been discovered by the internet and (badly) applied to Covid-19. This is how Koch’s postulates were first laid out more than 130 years ago:
  1. The organism must always be present, in every case of the disease.
  2. The organism must be isolated from a host containing the disease and grown in pure culture.
  3. Samples of the organism taken from pure culture must cause the same disease when inoculated into a healthy, susceptible animal in the laboratory.
  4. The organism must be isolated from the inoculated animal and must be identified as the same original organism first isolated from the originally diseased host.
So, in the light of the 21st century how do the postulates hold up? Well, the first one was soon abandoned by Koch himself with the discovery that people could be asymptomatic carriers of the microbes responsible for cholera and typhoid fever. In the years since, we’ve come to understand that many microbes can live in and on people and only cause disease under certain circumstances. We’ve also come to understand that some microbes can set off a chain reaction that leads to disease long after the organism in question has been cleared by the immune system.
The second postulate should really read something like: it would be nice if the organism could be isolated and grown in pure culture. That’s because we don’t even know the conditions under which many microbes grow outside of their host. Take Mycobacterium leprae which causes leprosy. As far as we know, that can only grow in humans, nine-banded armadillos, and a mouse’s footpad. Just because we can’t grow it in pure culture doesn’t mean it isn’t responsible for leprosy. Indeed, using genomic sequencing, we know there are way more microbes than we’ve ever been able to grow in pure culture.
Obviously postulates three and four suffer from the same issue if the microbe can’t be grown in culture. Postulate three would also be better phrased as should cause the same disease when inoculated into a susceptible animal in the laboratory. I say should and specify susceptible because we also now know that some microbes can’t cause disease in a healthy host but can if the host is immune-compromised.

But wait! What about viruses?​

The worst thing about Koch’s postulates is that they were formulated before viruses were known to exist. Viruses aren’t like the bacteria that Koch was busy discovering. Viruses need to take over a host cell to replicate. In other words, they turn cells into virus-producing factories. And depending on what proteins a virus has on its surface, it may only be able to infect very specific cells from certain host species, or a wide range of cells from lots of different species.
That’s why when virologists want to isolate a virus from a sample they’ll take the sample or some part of it and add it to some cells – usually ones that are relatively easy to grow in the lab – and then look to see if the cells die and/or if there are any virus particles released into the liquid nutrient bath the cells are growing in.

In other words, viruses can’t be grown in pure culture as described by Koch’s postulates because they need a cell to grow in. Does that mean viruses don’t cause disease? No.

Bringing Koch’s Postulates into the 20th century​

Over 30 years ago, one of the modern-day leaders of microbiology Professor Stanley Falkow reworded Koch’s Postulates to bring them more up to date. Falkow, who died in 2018, was at the forefront of research into how specific genes possessed by particular microbes contribute to their ability to cause disease. In a nutshell his “Molecular Postulates” state that:
  1. The trait under investigation should be associated with pathogenic members of a genus or pathogenic strains of a species. Pathogenic means having the ability to cause disease.
  2. Specific inactivation of the gene(s) associated with the suspected trait should lead to a measurable loss in pathogenicity or virulence in a suitable animal host. In other words, inactivating the gene or genes should mean there is less disease.
  3. Reactivating the gene or genes should restore the ability of the microbe to cause disease in a suitable animal host.
Even with these updated postulates, it’s still not currently possible to satisfy them for many microbes that cause human disease as they rely on the ability to be able to grow and genetically manipulate the microbe in question and have a suitable animal model. That doesn’t mean the postulates aren’t useful, just that microbiologists might not completely rule out an organism or gene being involved in causing disease even if the postulates can’t be fulfilled.

When so-called evidence isn’t worth the paper it’s written on​

Back to the evidence being used to prove the virus responsible for Covid-19 doesn’t exist. This is what is being asked of governments, universities, and scientific and academic institutions around the world:
“All records in the possession, custody or control of [name] describing the isolation of a SARS-COV-2 virus, directly from a sample taken from a diseased patient, where the patient sample was not first combined with any other source of genetic material (i.e. monkey kidney cells aka vero cells; lung cells from a cancer patient).”
The copies of the requests I’ve been sent also go on to state:
“Please note that I am using “isolation” in the every-day sense of the word: the act of separating a thing(s) from everything else. I am not requesting records were “isolation of SARS-COV-2” refers instead to: the culturing of something, or the performance of an amplification test (ie a PCR test), or the sequencing of something.”
In other words, the people asking for evidence of the existence of the SARS-CoV-2 virus responsible for Covid-19 are specifically wording their request to rule out obtaining any evidence that the virus exists. As I’ve pointed out, viruses need a host cell to replicate in which is why samples are combined with another “source of genetic material”. This is just biology.
And as for using isolation in the every-day sense of the word, rather than the definition that is relevant to the question being asked? Well, that’s just bloody ridiculous and a clear sign these requests for evidence are not being made in good faith.
And before they pivot to yelling about human exosomes, these aren’t the smoking gun either. Yes, exosomes (more commonly referred to as vesicles) are small particles that can be separated from samples by centrifugation. The important distinction here is that they are bits of our cells that bud off and generally require huge volumes of material to isolate them from. The same processes just can’t be applied to a small sample of cells from someone’s nasal swab.
So regardless of what people believe about “virus theory” or what they think their seemingly vexatious requests for evidence show, Covid-19 continues to cause devastation around the world. The sad thing is, bad faith arguments like these are undermining attempts to bring the pandemic under control. And the consequences of that are deadly.
I’ve had quite a few messages from people who believe they have evidence that Covid-19, or more specifically the virus responsible, SARS-CoV-2, doesn’t exist. They even believe they have the paperwork to prove it. And that paperwork is convincing if you don’t know otherwise. It comes in the form of Official Information Act requests to governments, universities, and scientific and academic institutions all around the world. But this is no global coverup. Instead it’s a case of the internet finding the work of a German microbiologist who died over a hundred years ago combined with people sticking rigidly to a specific definition of the word isolation.
Lots of loaded language and no citations again (where's the fucking sauce?). But this last bit about the definition of "isolation" catches my eye. After all, the issue of isolation is the basis of Covid allegedly not existing and viruses as a whole being fraudulent, so let's read on.
Let’s start with that German microbiologist. Robert Koch was born in 1843 and by all accounts was a very clever chap. He trained as a doctor before becoming one of the founders of microbiology as a field of experimental science. Before his death in 1910 he made lots of important contributions. In the 1870s he discovered that anthrax was caused by the bacterium Bacillus anthracis, the first time a specific microbe was linked to a specific disease. He followed that up in 1882 with his discovery that the slow-growing bacterium Mycobacterium tuberculosis was the cause of tuberculosis (TB). Better known back then as consumption, TB had long been thought to be a hereditary disease.
There are no citations in this entire piece by the way. Which is good for me as I don't have to autistically list them, but bad for Siouxsie and the Banshees because for all I know she could be making this shit up.

Koch’s postulates, aka how to tell whether a microbe causes disease​


Robert Koch is also famous for his “postulates”, the four conditions he and his mentor Jakob Henle postulated had to be met for a microbe to be considered the cause of a disease. It is these postulates that have now been discovered by the internet and (badly) applied to Covid-19. This is how Koch’s postulates were first laid out more than 130 years ago:
  1. The organism must always be present, in every case of the disease.
  2. The organism must be isolated from a host containing the disease and grown in pure culture.
  3. Samples of the organism taken from pure culture must cause the same disease when inoculated into a healthy, susceptible animal in the laboratory.
  4. The organism must be isolated from the inoculated animal and must be identified as the same original organism first isolated from the originally diseased host.
Finally somebody outright tells me what Koch's Postulates are. Thank you dangerhair kiwi lady! This helps put a lot of previous jibber-jabber into place. See? This is a learning experience.
So, in the light of the 21st century how do the postulates hold up? Well, the first one was soon abandoned by Koch himself with the discovery that people could be asymptomatic carriers of the microbes responsible for cholera and typhoid fever. In the years since, we’ve come to understand that many microbes can live in and on people and only cause disease under certain circumstances. We’ve also come to understand that some microbes can set off a chain reaction that leads to disease long after the organism in question has been cleared by the immune system.
The second postulate should really read something like: it would be nice if the organism could be isolated and grown in pure culture.
The tone is grating but it's at least not opaque.
That’s because we don’t even know the conditions under which many microbes grow outside of their host. Take Mycobacterium leprae which causes leprosy. As far as we know, that can only grow in humans, nine-banded armadillos, and a mouse’s footpad. Just because we can’t grow it in pure culture doesn’t mean it isn’t responsible for leprosy. Indeed, using genomic sequencing, we know there are way more microbes than we’ve ever been able to grow in pure culture.
No real explanation as to how genomic sequencing allows us to know that. I'm going to assume the article continues to provide zero explanation for what it posits so I'm going to stop harping about it every paragraph.
Obviously postulates three and four suffer from the same issue if the microbe can’t be grown in culture. Postulate three would also be better phrased as should cause the same disease when inoculated into a susceptible animal in the laboratory. I say should and specify susceptible because we also now know that some microbes can’t cause disease in a healthy host but can if the host is immune-compromised.

But wait! What about viruses?​

The worst thing about Koch’s postulates is that they were formulated before viruses were known to exist. Viruses aren’t like the bacteria that Koch was busy discovering. Viruses need to take over a host cell to replicate. In other words, they turn cells into virus-producing factories. And depending on what proteins a virus has on its surface, it may only be able to infect very specific cells from certain host species, or a wide range of cells from lots of different species.
That’s why when virologists want to isolate a virus from a sample they’ll take the sample or some part of it and add it to some cells – usually ones that are relatively easy to grow in the lab – and then look to see if the cells die and/or if there are any virus particles released into the liquid nutrient bath the cells are growing in.

In other words, viruses can’t be grown in pure culture as described by Koch’s postulates because they need a cell to grow in. Does that mean viruses don’t cause disease? No.

Bringing Koch’s Postulates into the 20th century​

Over 30 years ago, one of the modern-day leaders of microbiology Professor Stanley Falkow reworded Koch’s Postulates to bring them more up to date. Falkow, who died in 2018, was at the forefront of research into how specific genes possessed by particular microbes contribute to their ability to cause disease. In a nutshell his “Molecular Postulates” state that:
  1. The trait under investigation should be associated with pathogenic members of a genus or pathogenic strains of a species. Pathogenic means having the ability to cause disease.
  2. Specific inactivation of the gene(s) associated with the suspected trait should lead to a measurable loss in pathogenicity or virulence in a suitable animal host. In other words, inactivating the gene or genes should mean there is less disease.
  3. Reactivating the gene or genes should restore the ability of the microbe to cause disease in a suitable animal host.
Even with these updated postulates, it’s still not currently possible to satisfy them for many microbes that cause human disease as they rely on the ability to be able to grow and genetically manipulate the microbe in question and have a suitable animal model. That doesn’t mean the postulates aren’t useful, just that microbiologists might not completely rule out an organism or gene being involved in causing disease even if the postulates can’t be fulfilled.
These are Falkow's Molecular Postulates that Bailey earlier dismissed out of hand. Their lack of simplicity compared to Koch's makes a layman like myself confuzzled. Perhaps I'm starting to understand Bailey's own frustration.

When so-called evidence isn’t worth the paper it’s written on​


Back to the evidence being used to prove the virus responsible for Covid-19 doesn’t exist. This is what is being asked of governments, universities, and scientific and academic institutions around the world:

“All records in the possession, custody or control of [name] describing the isolation of a SARS-COV-2 virus, directly from a sample taken from a diseased patient, where the patient sample was not first combined with any other source of genetic material (i.e. monkey kidney cells aka vero cells; lung cells from a cancer patient).”
Ah here we are. Drama in Middle-Earth! (((SCIENCE))) cultists versus (((SCIENCE))) truthers. Spill the tea Ms. Pulled to Bits.
The copies of the requests I’ve been sent also go on to state:

“Please note that I am using “isolation” in the every-day sense of the word: the act of separating a thing(s) from everything else. I am not requesting records were “isolation of SARS-COV-2” refers instead to: the culturing of something, or the performance of an amplification test (ie a PCR test), or the sequencing of something.”

In other words, the people asking for evidence of the existence of the SARS-CoV-2 virus responsible for Covid-19 are specifically wording their request to rule out obtaining any evidence that the virus exists. As I’ve pointed out, viruses need a host cell to replicate in which is why samples are combined with another “source of genetic material”. This is just biology.
Bit of a presumptuous statement to proclaim that this is "just biology" but who knows? This could be common knowledge in the biology community and anyone worth their salt would know this. This does raise an interesting point though. This whole semantic argument regarding the meaning of "isolation" is similar to the common misunderstanding of the use of the word "theory" in scientific parlance. Are the Baileys' and Massey's claims legitimate, is the changing of "isolation" to refer to an arcane, specialized topic pseudoscientific? Or are the Baileys, Massey and their sphere just turboautistic, incapable of accepting a word outside of its most literal interpretation? Should the literal interpretation of "isolation" be the correct one or not? I'd argue that science should be accessible to laypeople like me, so maybe the scientific definition of "isolation" should be well known to laypeople the same way "theory" should. Or maybe changing the definition of isolation to fit the results is a failing of the scientific method. No idea. Let's finish up.
And as for using isolation in the every-day sense of the word, rather than the definition that is relevant to the question being asked? Well, that’s just bloody ridiculous and a clear sign these requests for evidence are not being made in good faith.

And before they pivot to yelling about human exosomes, these aren’t the smoking gun either. Yes, exosomes (more commonly referred to as vesicles) are small particles that can be separated from samples by centrifugation. The important distinction here is that they are bits of our cells that bud off and generally require huge volumes of material to isolate them from. The same processes just can’t be applied to a small sample of cells from someone’s nasal swab.

So regardless of what people believe about “virus theory” or what they think their seemingly vexatious requests for evidence show, Covid-19 continues to cause devastation around the world. The sad thing is, bad faith arguments like these are undermining attempts to bring the pandemic under control. And the consequences of that are deadly.
Don't know anything about exosomes and Bailey's paper doesn't bring them up so I don't have much to say. The somewhat alarmist ending to the article is dodgy. The article itself is terribly dodgy, but I've come away with some answers. So there's that at least.
 
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Tuberculosis is caused by bacteria, not a virus.

Malaria is caused by an unicellular obligate intracellular parasite, not a virus.

I'm seriously starting to question how many people discussing things in this thread even know what a virus is.

My bad! You're right, I'm a retard

According to the genius op, bacteria doesn't cause disease either. It's all just shit that happens.

Nevermind...

I'd have to say: the intense outrage over an idea running counter to one widely accepted never ceases to amaze and amuse. This thread is a treat.

You know, I have an open mind and I love conspiracy theories. I agree that @Save the Loli went on a bit hard on OP from the beginning, but the outrage from people who has found the idea of virii not existing preposterous isn't that different from the outrage coming from people reeing at they're fringe ideas not being immediately taken as truth by masses of literal whos on the internet.

STL can be rather caustic about things he feels strongly about, and he really feels strongly about the idea that glowies close to the Democratic Party colluded with China and the Ukraine to create a deadly virus. OP, and others, feel strongly about people affirming virus do exist and offering rebuttal to the (lack of) alternative explanations.

Why are STL's strong feelings less legitimate than OP's strong feelings, I ask?

I have posted stuff in this forum that got me plenty of 'Autistic' and 'Dumb' reactions but I wasn't deluded into thinking that any of these posts weren't controversial. Imagine reeing and getting butthurt because your fringe ideas are found outlandish by majorities.

The conspiracy minded might be on point but they often are arrogant and forget that, for the most part, there is a reason why something is widely accepted and why going against it would be considered an outright insult to intelligence.


I am patiently waiting for you to disprove gravitational theory. It's just a theory, bro. We've been gaslighted into thinking we are floorbound. Gravity is a social construct!

That's just further proof to me that people don't even know what they're arguing for, much less against here.

Right, I got that little tidbit wrong and you're latching at it to dismiss my whole point. If I were to list a complete list of conditions caused by virii it wouldn't have made any difference, though. Would you have gone through any and each of them to disprove the presence of virii in any and each of them? No, you would have just ignored it lol

The point of my post is that you, and others apart from you, are denying what seems to be the easiest, most plausible explanation, and one that has been validated for more than a century of medical practice and research, ever since that bitch Florence Nightingale first had the depravity of cleaning sheets, changing bandages and opening windows and then painstakingly documented how that made the bloody messes of the Crimean war soldiers recover at unprecedented rates. And the alternative explanation you lot have seems to be 'nothing', a nebulous, malleable idea.

You claim @Tablet County has been a bad faith actor resorting to ad hominem and strawmanning. While he can certainly be a cunt sometimes, as his username implies, you are not coming as much better than him. In fact, he went through the trouble to read the originally posted document and offer lengthy refutations.

Now, I haven't had time to read either the OG document or TCs refutations so I have zero idea who is doing a good case and who is doing a bad case, what I know is that by now I have a clear idea of how you think and it's not very flattering.

"Lol, didn't read" isn't a very mature or intelligent answer to a lengthy refutation.

You are claiming you just will outright disregard anything he says just because he started 'in bad faith' (Are you Mr Enter?) but the truth is that this is just an excuse.

You are going to keep looking for excuses or diversions to avoid confronting, or ever being exposed at all, to ideas that refute yours, all while claiming we're 'close-minded' and 'religiously dogmatic'.

Dude, you are entitled to believe whatever you want but this is a discussion forum. You don't have to read and refute people whose ideas and values are opposite yours. You can, just, like, fucking ignore the thread and all that if it gets you MATI and go on threads that make you laugh or are more satisfying.

But the reason that you're MATI is that you don't want people to read what people like TC has written unchallenged, lest anybody might think he's right, but you're severely unable to challenge him except in this childish, immature way.
 
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I am patiently waiting for you to disprove gravitational theory. It's just a theory, bro. We've been gaslighted into thinking we are floorbound. Gravity is a social construct!
I have heard it posited that it's centrifugal force and not gravity which keeps us rooted to the Earth. Though how that model explains the existence of stars I've yet to see.
he went through the trouble to read the originally posted document and offer lengthy refutations.
Honestly I don't think my Let's Play commentary of this document is all that valuable, really. I'm no scientist, no academic, and I've never been good at organizing my thoughts in an appealing essayish way.

But I think if other people are like me, they're also lazy cunts who don't want to go to another website just to read a giant wall of text about shit they don't care about. This is an entertainment website at its core, so people don't often come here to get into lengthy debates about esoteric, academic crap that doesn't affect them in their everyday life.

It also pisses me off whenever somebody goes "do your own research" while also being the type who think that science is inaccessible to the everyday person. I figure if I at least lay out all the text, the references, and the links then somebody will read it and come to their own conclusion. If they find my commentary retarded they can ignore it, which is why I include the plain, unabridged text in all of my effortposts.

That being said I think I might need to condense some of this shit down, the paper is 60+ pages and I'm only on page 8. If I have to spend the rest of 2024 going through this with a fine-toothed comb I will, but if I think I don't have to then I'll see about cutting some fat.
Anyway, I've got vacuuming to do, so here's the plain text of the next part of Bailey's big document and the Top Gear meme tax:
saw-this-on-instagram-v0-hshgruu3vj4c1.jpg
Wiles also decided to champion virology’s blatant misuse of the word ‘isolation’ when she stated, “as for using isolation in the every-day sense of the word, rather than the definition that is relevant to the question being asked? Well, that’s just bloody ridiculous and a clear sign these requests for evidence are not being made in good faith.” She appeared to be incredulous that others had pointed out that the definition of a word being used scientifically was unilaterally changed by the virologists to imply a certain proof was obtained. However, if their use of isolation does not mean what most people think it means, then it is likely that most of the public are being misinformed. On this account, Wiles is an active participant in promulgating disinformation, whether it is an act of wilful blindness or otherwise. Wiles needs to show her hand as an expert and explain to the
public what the definition of isolation in virology means, in particular with regard to demonstrating the putative existence of viruses. Perhaps she thinks she did explain when she wrote, “when virologists want to isolate a virus from a sample they’ll take the sample or some part of it and add it to some cells – usually ones that are relatively easy to grow in the lab – and then look to see if the cells die and/or if there are any virus particles released into the liquid nutrient bath the cells are growing in.” It is unclear if Wiles is implying that the “virus isolate” is established by: (a) the
taking of the sample, (b) seeing some cells die in vitro, (c) the release of claimed “virus particles” in the Essue culture, or (d) all or some combination of these elements. However, nothing she described requires the existence of viruses — it is a game of deception, whether realised or not. It
simply involves the assertion that a virus was in the sample, blaming the breakdown of experimentally stressed cells in the test tube on the imagined virus, and then declaring that some of the vesicles (whose biological composition and function were not established) were the viruses.
There is a further fatal flaw in this exercise. As this essay will detail, the claims that SARS-CoV-2 has been shown to exist through this methodology are all scientifically invalid as none of the experiments were performed with valid controls.

This is exemplary of how Wiles has acted in her role as one of the key influencers for the New Zealand government’s disinformation campaign and its murderous rollout programme of an injectable product called Comirnaty™ – claiming that non-specific Essue culture experiments verify the existence of the virus when nothing of the kind has been demonstrated. The issue extends beyond just SARS-CoV-2 — every virus asserted to exist relies on similar pseudoscience. The history of virology reveals that the types of cells eventually selected for these experiments have been those that have a propensity to breakdown with the claim of virus-induced ‘cytopathic effects’ (CPEs), rather than those that are, “relatively easy to grow in the lab,” as Wiles claimed in her article. For example, Vero E6 monkey cells have long been favoured by virologists, supposedly due to their “suitability” to host many viruses, but suspiciously also, because the aneuploid kidney line is more susceptible to toxic insults from additional ingredients such as the ubiquitous nephrotoxic antibiotics and antifungals added to the culture mix. When one group attempted to culture SARS-CoV-2, they had no desired result with human adenocarcinoma cells (A549), human liver cells (HUH7.0), human embryonic kidney cells (HEK-293T), and a big brown bat kidney cell line (EFK3B), but then declared they had a “viral isolate” following the observation of CPEs in Vero E6 cells. As is typical, there seemed to be no sense of irony for them that the purported human respiratory virus cannot be shown to “infect” the relevant cell type, let alone the relevant species. And their experiments were once again invalidated by the absence of appropriate control cultures.
 
I'd have to say: the intense outrage over an idea running counter to one widely accepted never ceases to amaze and amuse. This thread is a treat.

Thank you, frens.
Nobody is outraged. This thread is "point and laugh at OP (who is literally a faggot) and his white knight boyfriend/alt account." I feel vindicated by my decision to make fun of OP because the dude has admitted in other threads he has thoughts of trooning out and likes taking it up the ass.
I am patiently waiting for you to disprove gravitational theory. It's just a theory, bro. We've been gaslighted into thinking we are floorbound. Gravity is a social construct!
Gravity is a lot closer to the arguments that keep getting raised in this thread. Like it's real, but what causes it? No one knows. Ask a bunch of physicists and you'll get a bunch of different answers.
 
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I am patiently waiting for you to disprove gravitational theory. It's just a theory, bro. We've been gaslighted into thinking we are floorbound. Gravity is a social construct.
Just to confirm your argument is that what you've literally termed a "theory" is not actually what it is literally termed.

Do I have that right?

Right, I got that little tidbit wrong and you're latching at it to dismiss my whole point.
You weren't the only one. Yes, if you wanted to make a point based on your ignorance, it is completely fair and reasonable to dismiss it. It's not even a "point" because we've already well established that bacteria and other microorganisms like bacteria do exist because they can be observed.

Viruses cannot.

Dude, you are entitled to believe whatever you want but this is a discussion forum. You don't have to read and refute people whose ideas and values are opposite yours. You can, just, like, fucking ignore the thread and all that if it gets you MATI and go on threads that make you laugh or are more satisfying.
I'm going to believe whatever I want. Kick rocks.

Also, "ideas and values" ? Really, faggot? I don't believe viruses exist. That's all. You wanna moralfag me because I don't have the same opinion that you do about fucking viruses?

Kill yourself.
 
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Just to confirm your argument is that what you've literally termed a "theory" is not actually what it is literally termed.
You really don't understand what "theory" means, do you? It's not a synonym of "belief", or some vague collection of thoughts. A scientific theory is a set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena. In the field of science, it's the closest thing to "fact" that exists.

And yes, what we commonly call gravity is more accurately referrered to as gravitational theory. It's a very well-tested theory.
 
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You really don't understand what "theory" means, do you?
Screenshot 2024-01-05 022420.png


It's not a synonym of "belief"
Screenshot 2024-01-05 022548.png


the closest thing
But is the thing that's closest the thing itself? You mentioned testing which entails the thing must be tested in order for is to better understand it. Meaning we still do not understand it. Which is the entire point to my saying I do not believe in something which hasn't been tested because you cannot even see the fucking thing.

Ultimately why saying a "theory" is "truth" is idiotic. Science is never a methodology that tells you what is or what isn't true. Science can only give you whatever you put into it.
 
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