Russian Special Military Operation in the Ukraine - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

>be the GDR

The DDR was a silly place. It is typical of Germans to try really hard in making the unworkable work (from colonial empires to air defense) and the DDR tried its hardest to make Communism work, the Stasi and most of the leadership were true believers and many, many of the silliest parts of the DDR were born from the desperate need to make the ideology work. It was nonetheless a WarPact state and it had massive problems in legitimacy and overall in economic performance when their Big Brother started collapsing in the 70ies. Considering their starting point and how the Soviets weren't the Americans (reparations were taken very seriously by the Union), the fact that the DDR managed to rebuild itself was a miracle, and I won't fault them for trying.

I'll admit it's eerie to find people defending the DDR here. It's history, and it failed. It's at best an interesting subject for study.

If we're talking about ideological bankruptcy, the Wessies aren't that better off, essentially selling their newer generations and never properly punishing the previous ones. Much of what's wrong of contemporary Germany (the idiotic belief that economical development/union is the end objective of any polity and the utter subservience to American dominance) develops from that, and they spread their rot to the EU. Of course when the people that control your foreign policy and your military tell you to torpedo your economy to spite Russia, you need to do so because you have no other options. The Wessies were simply the slaves of the rich man, the Ossies of the poor one.

Also, "new hippie kumbaya anthem" is Auferstanden aus Ruinen? What are you, a homosexual?
 
I know lasers and DE weapons aren't that common on the battlefield right now, but wouldn't they be fairly easy to defeat with refractory materials? I know weather conditions are an enormous factor with atmospheric lasers, and I don't know how powerful a laser needs to be to bore through a mirror cruising through the air.
Lasers look really cool, but probably aren't the best choice for drones: I suspect microwave/milliwave attacks would the best option - go straight for the electronics and comms. This should be doable with phased arrays (so you don't need any moving parts) but there's a bunch of maths and electronics to figure out.
Since this is the first time we've seen drones used in a peer war, I rather suspect there's now a mini moon-race going on while everyone races for measures and countermeasures.
 
Also, "new hippie kumbaya anthem" is Auferstanden aus Ruinen?
"Glück und Friede sei beschieden
Deutschland, unserm Vaterland.
Alle Welt sehnt sich nach Frieden,
Reicht den Völkern eure Hand!
Wenn wir brüderlich uns einen,
Schlagen wir des Volkes Feind.
Lasst das Licht des Friedens scheinen,
Dass nie eine Mutter mehr
Ihren Sohn beweint!
Ihren Sohn beweint!"

The whole anthem can be summed up as "We're back, world peace for all, no more wars, leave us alone so we can work and prosper."
 
Long past are the days laughing about muh "Russian cope cages"
View attachment 5611441
Oh, look it's our old friend David Axe! Here again to tell us that all the stuff we shipped to Ukraine is the latest and greatest that will throw those subhuman RuZZian orcs out for good, and then five minutes later tells us it's not good enough and we need to throw even more money and weapons that we don't have or can't afford to expend to this shitty rathole of nation. Because his handlers he can't afford to admit that the sub-90 IQ Nazi-collaborator-worshiping pig-people that we've emptied our coffers and munitions stockpiles for are too fucking corrupt and/or incompetent to fight a modern war.
 
Last edited:
What is the point of arresting them and doing criminal investigations? They have no problem just rounding up guys walking down the street and putting them in the military. Why not just send the goons in the truck to pick them up for processing into the military.

Or is this aimed at people who are outside Ukraine?
To spook them so either
1) leave with a chance to capture them on the border
2) enlist before muh penalties are bigger
Remember, the punishment is the process
 
Oh, look it's our old friend David Axe! Here again to tell us that all the stuff we shipped to Ukraine is the latest and greatest that will throw those subhuman RuZZian orcs out for good, and then five minutes later tells us it's not good enough and we need to throw even more money and weapons that we don't have or can't afford to expend to this shitty rathole of nation. Because his handlers he can't afford to admit that the sub-90 IQ Nazi-collaborator-worshiping pig-people that we've emptied our coffers and munitions stockpiles for are too fucking corrupt and/or incompetent to fight a modern war.
As I've pointed out before, the hardcore anti-Russian/NATO simps don't realize how this doesn't prove their point.

They mean to really try and convince us that after all the money we've spent, all the amazing super duper ultra advanced wunderwaffe we've sent to them, and now close to 2 years into this conflict...the most Ukraine can accomplish is a stalemate that they're not going to be able to hold much longer.
What happened to 2 Weeks To Moscow? I thought the Russians were supposed to be running out of literally everything to fight on, and the Russian economy was going to collapse any day now.

Mark my words, when the Ukrainians finally lose, the Western politicians will finally drop the mask entirely and just become frothing at the mouth lunatics demanding death to all who don't support globohomo. And not in the subtle ways like they have been, just outright on TV demands for the rest of the world to submit or get nuked.
 
What is the point of arresting them and doing criminal investigations? They have no problem just rounding up guys walking down the street and putting them in the military. Why not just send the goons in the truck to pick them up for processing into the military.

Or is this aimed at people who are outside Ukraine?
Considering the source I have a feeling this headline/story is targeted at those who fled the country letting them know that if they ever hope to come back they'll be facing charges.
 
Man, you just KNOW this shit is going to be mobility-killed and then dragged back to enemy lines to be cracked open like a treasure chest full of pirate booty. A third of a ton of rubies! Gemstones lad, precious gemstones! Yarrrr!
That's a benefit. If Russia were deploying these, the Ukrops would be wasting all their tank recovery vehicles just to tow these back to their lines. Meanwhile there'd be soldiers swarming all over it trying to crack it open. They'd probably blow up a whole squad since they love playing with grenades.
I know lasers and DE weapons aren't that common on the battlefield right now, but wouldn't they be fairly easy to defeat with refractory materials? I know weather conditions are an enormous factor with atmospheric lasers, and I don't know how powerful a laser needs to be to bore through a mirror cruising through the air.
Depends on the mirror, but let's just say that strapping your bathroom mirror to a drone isn't going to make it repel anything stronger than a laser pointer for cats. You need a mirror custom made for the task of stopping lasers, which do exist (IIRC they've experimented with it in the lab for solar sails). But keep in mind that a laser bouncing off a mirror will impart momentum which might disrupt flight, since all those photons have to go somewhere since they aren't being absorbed as heat. And the mirror is going to add weight and expense to the drone. Bouncing a laser off anything is also a great way to pinpoint its location.

It also probably isn't possible to use "mirror armor" on the entire drone. Aircraft have too many sensitive bits that are difficult to armor.
>sweep the various crimes (ranging from rape to vehicular homicide and even murder) committed by Soviet soldiers stationed in the GDR under the rug
Part and parcel for occupying armies. Japan, South Korea, and yep, Germany all know the propensity of American soldiers to rape and murder local women and children. It's also a very long tradition to station black soldiers in Germany who reproduce with local women (willingly or not) ever since France occupied the Rhineland a century ago. Since 1945, American blacks have filled this role.
 
Considering the source I have a feeling this headline/story is targeted at those who fled the country letting them know that if they ever hope to come back they'll be facing charges.
Congratulations to the deep-cover Russian agent who implemented this policy designed to make sure that Ukraine's population NEVER recovers from all this by ensuring anyone who escaped the pointless meat-grinder can never come back home.
 
Any word on what happened with the f-16's ukriane got half a year ago?
Have they been used yet or are they just using them for air shows or something.
I think they got bombed the moment Russia found them, or at least the airstrip was? I'd have to double check
I'm pretty sure they still haven't received them, that they're still being refurbished and pilots being trained in Belgium and the Netherlands.

And frankly, given how things are going, I don't think they'll ever get to Ukraine, or if they do it's not like it's going to make any kind of a difference. If the Western Alliance is really worried about a growing Russia/China power block and wants to counter it's influence, it'd probably be a wiser move to adopt a modern-day "Mauser Diplomacy" and save those jets to sell or loan to countries we want to influence over in South America and East Asia, possibly even some of the cooler cats down in Africa.
The DDR was a silly place. It is typical of Germans to try really hard in making the unworkable work (from colonial empires to air defense) and the DDR tried its hardest to make Communism work, the Stasi and most of the leadership were true believers and many, many of the silliest parts of the DDR were born from the desperate need to make the ideology work. It was nonetheless a WarPact state and it had massive problems in legitimacy and overall in economic performance when their Big Brother started collapsing in the 70ies. Considering their starting point and how the Soviets weren't the Americans (reparations were taken very seriously by the Union), the fact that the DDR managed to rebuild itself was a miracle, and I won't fault them for trying.

I'll admit it's eerie to find people defending the DDR here. It's history, and it failed. It's at best an interesting subject for study.
I chalk it up to a particular kind of autism that can only appear on sites like these. See, the current leadership class in the Western world is clearly corrupt and illegitimate, and their opponents in places like Moscow and Beijing while really not that much better also clearly aren't the terrifying monsters that the current TPTB's house organs portray them as. Now, since autists have severe trouble with thinking in nuance, the autist then thinks "wait, so the people in charge are lying? That must mean everything they've ever said is a lie! That means they've always been the bad guys, and the "bad guys" really the good guys!" It's the same kind of stunted autism that causes people to think that because Tony Blair and company made a conscious decision to import as many Pakis as possible in the 1990's for short-term political gain, that therefore Hitler was in the right in the 1940's and Britain should've never fought him.
 
And frankly, given how things are going, I don't think they'll ever get to Ukraine
I do wonder if The US/NATO doesn't want to give them any of the planes due to the M1 Abrams/Leopards/etc being destroyed and not wanting an image blunder if the F-16s are easily shot down or sold to some nefarious party.
 
Is this the hypersonic one of the one with built in countermeasures? I saw the videos of them at low altitude over Kiev but they didn't look all that fast. Putting chaff and flares on a missile is kind of a genius idea.
It is, and I doubt its the only missile to use them.
That means they've always been the bad guys
But they always have been. Protip: the ones in charge don't have your best interests in mind, they have only their best interests in mind. If you sometimes benefit by happenstance that's accidental, not intentional. That goes for every country in the world, some are just better at leaving the plebes alone than others.
 
He claims that the counteroffensive failed because the Ukrainians were not given time to sufficiently train in NATO tactics.
At this point, I'm 50/50 on whether Ukraine might have done better if they received no NATO training at all. Maybe specifics on the weapons they were supplied but strategically? Higher level tactics? Everything NATO touches seems to be a disaster. I don't have any experience in the military but my experience in other sectors increasingly leads me to the view that there's a layer of power that has consolidated itself across pretty much all industry and government that drive out anybody who isn't part of them and that this layer doesn't know what the fuck it is doing. It has one talent and one only - the ability to recognise people that might upset the gravy train and to close ranks against them.

He also explains how the war can be re-framed from being about giving money to Ukraine to being about creating high wage manufacturing jobs in western countries:
Some people seem to forget what work is actually for. It's to produce things of value, wealth. Turning your economy into a workshop for weapons (a) is just a epically worse version of the broken window fallacy, written large across the globe. And (b) creates an incentive to perpetuate.

Toward the end of the article, he talks about how the struggle with Russia can prepare the west for an american military pivot to Asia where the majority of American forces will leave Europe to be stationed in Asia against China. He talks about how the Ukraine war can help prepare Europe to manage this pivot better.
It amazes me how completely blind some can be to how their actions are perceived by others. Like to what sort of person is it normal to talk about undermining the economy of your trading partners (as the USA does when it introduces sanctions to prevent China from, for example, importing microchips for modern AI software) or to surround with bases and missiles countries half way around the world that nobody in their right minds thinks are going to attack America - purely to prevent those countries achieving economic parity with your own country? Adam Smith would be spinning in his grave that people call this "capitalism". It's a nightmare. It's a nightmare that people have been in for so long that they don't understand that to people outside it they seem like lunatics. Does nobody in the US foreign policy understand - this is not normal! This is not friendly. This is hostile behaviour.

I know lasers and DE weapons aren't that common on the battlefield right now, but wouldn't they be fairly easy to defeat with refractory materials? I know weather conditions are an enormous factor with atmospheric lasers, and I don't know how powerful a laser needs to be to bore through a mirror cruising through the air.
I think someone else answered better already, but when I read up about this years ago the take away was that anything approaching an ordinary mirror just wouldn't cut it for the sort of laser that could take down a missile. Would just heat up and melt, that's assuming could handle flight in the first place. Drones I guess have lower requirements but then also take a lot less of a laser to bring down in the first place. Maybe we'll see anti-drone lasers at some point but due to power requirements they'll mostly be largely static things around sensitive areas. More likely, further refinement in very small missiles. One thing I'm surprised we haven't seen yet is more automated guns. There must be nearly the tech now that would make a human sniper look pretty inferior in accuracy and vastly inferior in rate of fire. Someone a while back demo an anti-mosquito laser. It just zapped the poor little things right out the air - one by one but fast. If there's the tech to point something at a mosquito at 2m away, there should be the tech to point something at a drone at 2,000m away! And anything that doesn't have to be carried around by a person I could imagine you would be able to do a lot with recoil. It wouldn't take much to disable a small to medium sized drone if you shot it. So why not just that? A robosniper that can fire of a dozen shots real quick at better accuracy than a human. The gun part is already a mature technology. Just need some well calibrated motors to point it. No messing around with lasers or $4,000 each rockets.

Congratulations to the deep-cover Russian agent who implemented this policy designed to make sure that Ukraine's population NEVER recovers from all this by ensuring anyone who escaped the pointless meat-grinder can never come back home.
Funny, I thought it was Western govts. that wanted to depopulate Ukraine, all the better to buy it up.
 
I think someone else answered better already, but when I read up about this years ago the take away was that anything approaching an ordinary mirror just wouldn't cut it for the sort of laser that could take down a missile. Would just heat up and melt, that's assuming could handle flight in the first place. Drones I guess have lower requirements but then also take a lot less of a laser to bring down in the first place. Maybe we'll see anti-drone lasers at some point but due to power requirements they'll mostly be largely static things around sensitive areas.
An anti-drone laser wouldn't be designed to actually melt the drone, it would be designed to mess up the electronics. Lasers are EM radiation, one tuned to emit microwaves would make even radiation-hardened processors miscount. Instead of an enormous focused laser that cuts the arms off, you could have a much smaller laser emitting a cone that disrupts electronics.

That huge laser tank posted earlier wasn't really designed to melt enemy tanks either, it was designed to destroy their optics and blind the crew through the eye slits. Also to mess with helicopters, but I doubt that would have worked, helicopters are apex predators.
 
I do wonder if The US/NATO doesn't want to give them any of the planes due to the M1 Abrams/Leopards/etc being destroyed and not wanting an image blunder if the F-16s are easily shot down or sold to some nefarious party.
The F-16's they were going to be receiving were late 80's builds anyway, I doubt they would've had anything too valuable on board.

Also, the F-16 already has a proven record second to none, it wouldn't have had anything to prove or reputation to put into danger in this current conflict.
 
One thing I'm surprised we haven't seen yet is more automated guns. There must be nearly the tech now that would make a human sniper look pretty inferior in accuracy and vastly inferior in rate of fire. Someone a while back demo an anti-mosquito laser. It just zapped the poor little things right out the air - one by one but fast. If there's the tech to point something at a mosquito at 2m away, there should be the tech to point something at a drone at 2,000m away! And anything that doesn't have to be carried around by a person I could imagine you would be able to do a lot with recoil. It wouldn't take much to disable a small to medium sized drone if you shot it. So why not just that? A robosniper that can fire of a dozen shots real quick at better accuracy than a human. The gun part is already a mature technology. Just need some well calibrated motors to point it. No messing around with lasers or $4,000 each rockets.
You will, they'll be ~30-40mm and fire preprogrammed or radio fused shells. Initial target acquisition by radar and final target engagement by radar or cameras.

Smaller calibers like small arms and heavy machine guns require direct hits and most drones besides the most low performance ones shouldn't be staying still long enough to get targeted and can just fly 500 meters or so off the ground in order to stay out of small arms engagement envelopes.

As for missiles, yep smaller and cheaper SAMs will come along, we're already seeing the turbine powered Coyote 2 used in Iraq. Also think of 70-80mm rockets but in the form of baby SAMs.

MANPADS will get more common, and an interesting idea would be a small Surface to air missile designed to be fired from a very common launcher (think RPG-7 or similar) where maybe an add on sighting/targeting module sits on the launcher and the seeker head on the missile is a simple as possible to keep costs very low.

The warhead would be a smaller blast frag one vs a larger HEAT warhead and the rocket motor could be beefed up to allow a longer flight time or maneuvering to engage.


Something for a small drone that just not quite big enough or capable enough to shoot a Stinger or Verba at but it's hard to kill with small arms and you want it dead.
The F-16's they were going to be receiving were late 80's builds anyway, I doubt they would've had anything too valuable on board.
Early 1980s, Block 15 jets upgraded to roughly Block 30 standards. VERY tired airframes that were probably going to be spare parts and training mules for Jordanians or other poorer F-16 operators.

If they try and use them to go after Su-35s and Mig-31s they're probably not coming back. The AIM-120Cs that Ukraine MIGHT get are outraged by the R-37 by at least 50km, possibly up to 75km.
 
Automated turrents already exist and are deployed on the Korean line.

Apparently the US military has scopes that dont quite pull the trigger for you. But can give you "pull trigger now!" Indicators and you will hit assuming your trigger pull didnt fuck up too much.

A sniper rifle that is "human controlled" by a spotter who marks valid targets seems like a no brainer thing to make. Hell let a human carry it but dont make them directly pull the trigger.
 
Automated turrets already exist and are used mostly to defend ships and some bases.
1704421106237.png


The problem arises again on how much money it costs to put a drone in the air vs. how much it costs to knock one down.

1704421206923.png

1704421282662.png


While the drone is going to be much slower than a missile, it can also be programmed to make evasive maneuvers. $5.6 mil for the gun, not including the crew to serve it, and $3,000 every time you pull the trigger. That equals out to the cost of about 1,867 weaponized drones plus 1 drone every time you fire.

Edit- The website I'm getting the info from is pretty old. The $5.6 million might have been the cost in the mid-late 1990s.
 
Well here's some drone footage from the Sudoplatov group:

Новые кадры уничтожения укронацистов FPV дронами «ВТ-40»
Укропы, это вам не по мирным ракетами долбить. Пора ответку получать.
Возмездие неизбежно.
За все ответите.
СУДНЫЙ ДЕНЬ


New footage of the destruction of ukronazists by FPV drones "VT-40"
Ukrop, this is not for you to hammer at peaceful missiles. It's time to get an answer.
Retribution is inevitable.
You will answer for everything.
JUDGMENT DAY (they really like those Terminator references)

Новые кадры уничтожения укронацистов FPV дронами «ВТ-40».
Наши расчеты не оставили ни единого шанса врагу.
Много груз 200, 300.

New footage of the destruction of ukronazists by FPV drones "VT-40".
Our calculations did not leave a single chance for the enemy.
A lot of cargo 200, 300.

Also, as per Colonelcassad: In Avdeevka, the sniper of the 3rd Special Forces Regiment, Rostislav Tereshchenko, was eliminated. A nationalist from the Dynamo Kyiv ultras, he fought with Azov during the ATO.
photo_2024-01-04_21-49-11.jpg
 
Back