2023 Israel-Palestine Armed Conflict

[nya002]

I agree with what you said about proportionate responses, but you are off when you mention international law. It applies to more than just relations between states. You’re interpreting the word “international” as meaning “relations among nations” when a better interpretation is “relations among and within nations.” International humanitarian law applies to armed conflict, whether of international or non-international character

You might be mixing things. Here is a link from the International Red Cross explaining the difference:

https://www.icrc.org/en/document/what-international-humanitarian-law

See this too:

https://www.icrc.org/en/war-and-law/ihl-domestic-law/documentation

The term (public) international law strictly applies to relations between states or international organisations.

international humanitarian law applies to the parties that are signatories to the relevant conventions, it doesn't apply automatically everywhere.

even crimes against humanity are not such because of international law, they are crimes because certain contracting parties decided that they are crimes. Genocide and slavery are prohibited not because of international law, they are prohibited because the members of the UN decided to prohibit them and some gave themselves universal jurisdiction over them.

I understand your point and there is a "creeping" of "international law" into things like protection of the environment and many other aspects of internal law. But it is wrong to say that "international law" prohibits something. A treaty prohibits something once it is ratified and becomes part of national law.

But Gaza is not a state. Israel is bound to follow the treaties it has adhered to regarding international humanitarian law (which apply even to police procedures - e.g. prohibition of torture), but not to the rules that apply to fighting regular armies. A soldier that shoots another soldier in a legitimate war cannot be tried for murder.

A terrorist, however, can be tried for murder and his accomplices too. Gazans that attacked civilians are terrorists. If you claim no, they are soldiers in a war, then they are war criminals. If you claim that those who attacked Israeli soldiers were soldiers in a war against Israel, even so, they committed war crimes by torture etc. We know what they did.

Take a look at perfidy (prohibited as a war crime):

https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/v1/rule65

Hamas as an organisation advocates for genocide and so puts itself outside of the protection given to soldiers and makes every single one of them a war criminal or a terrorist.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

I agree with what you said about proportionate responses, but you are off when you mention international law. It applies to more than just relations between states. You’re interpreting the word “international” as meaning “relations among nations” when a better interpretation is “relations among and within nations.” International humanitarian law applies to armed conflict, whether of international or non-international character. There are some specific rules that apply to each, but most rules are the same for both.

A related area of international law, international human rights law, also applies within and among nations.

International law is exactly what it says; "international". It applies to situations involving multiple nations. The fact is, nations have wide latitude to operate how they see fit within their own territory. Nations like North Korea and China violate civil rights and international norms everyday, but nobody gives a shit as long as it happens in their own country. Azerbaijan literally just wiped an entire autonomous area and displaced its entire population, and it largely got away with it because the area it conquered was internationally recognized as being part of their territory, and nobody was willing to intervene over it. Many nations sign treaties that are supposed to effect their internal policies, but largely ignore them. Case in point: Japan has signed the international treaty regarding the rights of the child, which prohibits spousal child kidnapping and obligates signatory states to investigate and return the kidnapped victim, but Japan has not put in procedures in place to effectively do this, meaning that Japan is technically violating international law. Has anyone taken them to task over it? Not really.

Gaza is unofficially not part of any state and is under Israeli jurisdiction and administration, technically. Its really an internal Israeli matter, not an international one. What controls here is Israeli law, not international law.

 

[DiscoRodeo]

But Gaza is not a state. Israel is bound to follow the treaties it has adhered to regarding international humanitarian law (which apply even to police procedures - e.g. prohibition of torture), but not to the rules that apply to fighting regular armies. A soldier that shoots another soldier in a legitimate war cannot be tried for murder.

I get it, but you've got an overly complicated analysis of 'international law' that isn't really accurate.

You're right, there is no such thing as international law because there is no ultimate arbitrator of states, and international law often conflates custom and treaty.

Saying that, 'international law' does not cease to exist when you are not fighting a regular army, or a non-state actor.

As far as actual law goes, we can focus on the treaty side of things. Lets say a country decides to sign a convention that states "We will not use blue phospherous to target civilian populations".

You don't need an opposing state to sign that convention, it doesnt matter if you use it on a non-state, etc. You signed that convention, to regulate your own combat operations.

If you break an international treaty that you signed, there are debatably consequences, but thats a separate issue entirely.

On Israel, its not breaking international law or its own treaties, because every time someone screams about something, theres usually a reasonable explanation and the person is being hyperbolic or inaccurate.

For example: "You signed a treaty that includes no forced relocation of civilians! When you suggest Gazans move elsewhere, this is ethnic cleansing! Youre breaking international law (a treaty you signed).

The response is not "well, these people dont belong to a state, or theyre not part of a regular army so international law doesn't apply to them". Thats silly.

The response is "well, we're not forcefully relocating them. We are giving them an option to leave and working with other states to take them in, but all the Arab states don't want to. They can stay in a refugee camp, or potentially under an Israeli occupation in gaza, presumably after the invasion". So, we're not actually in violation of a treaty that we signed.

Even in terms of irregular armies and combatants, there are international treaties that people sign, conventions, etc. For example, not to torture them.

Hamas as an organisation advocates for genocide and so puts itself outside of the protection given to soldiers

Yes, it advocates for genocide, yes they are considered non-state actors to many, but no- its not "they are a non-state actor (that advocates for genocide? Seriously, where did you get this from as a criteria for whether law applies to someone or not?), so you can gas, torture them, bash them on the head with a hammer, dropkick them, etc". There are even protections for hamas. This is not how international law, treaties, or convention signatories work.

Because there are often irregular soldiers and armies, there are differences in how they are treated- but the majority of states have signed conventions that give basic treatment rights even to these people.

 

[Scrumption]

international humanitarian law applies to the parties that are signatories to the relevant conventions, it doesn't apply automatically everywhere.

Its really an internal Israeli matter, not an international one. What controls here is Israeli law, not international law.

Respectfully, you are misunderstanding how international law is applied.

Three major areas of Int’l law are Int’l Criminal Law (ICL), Int’l Human Rights Law (IHRL), and Int’l Humanitarian Law (IHL, law of armed conflict).

When ICL was created, there was the significant hurdle of establishing jurisdiction in an international context. To get around this, ICL mostly relies on countries to submit to jurisdiction by either signing treaties or Universal Jurisdiction. Universal Jurisdiction allows people to be held responsible for crimes against humanity because these crimes are understood to be violations against the entire international community. In order for universal jurisdiction to apply, there must be a customary int’l law allowing for it.

IHRL is mostly treaty-based. However, jus cogens, which is similar to customary int’l law, applies to all countries even without treaties. Jus cogens prohibits piracy, genocide, and slavery.

IHL applies when there is armed conflict. There are two sets of rules: one applies to int’l armed conflict and the other applies to non-int’l armed conflict. Int’l armed conflict is defined as being between two or more states. Non-int’l armed conflict is either between a state and a non-state armed opposition group, or between non-state armed groups. Some examples include the Iraqi government’s war with the Islamic State in Iraq, Mexico’s wars with armed cartels, the Islamic State’s war with the Taliban, and the Yemeni Civil War. A lot of rules governeing international armed conflict have become a part of customary law, so the differences between the two sets of laws are diminished.

One of the most significant differences between the two types of armed conflict is that the law of belligerent occupation only applies to international armed conflict. Therefore, it only applies to Gaza and the West Bank when those areas are considered to be states.

Of course there is always the question of whether parties to an armed conflict are held responsible for violating these laws and whether these parties are held to the same standard. In practice, that is always going to be an issue, but the rules themselves do exist and still apply.

 

[Falcos_Commisar]

What's a BLD?

*BPD

Many Muslim women and ESPECIALLY South Asian Muslim women are extremely mentally unstable.

The ones in the West go two ways, insanely covered virtue signalling ones (a decent amount are raging whores in private) or out and about Only fans style "fitness" or "lifestyle" influencers (usually with an only fans too) who are 99/100 GIGANTIC whores.

LPT, stick with Hindu, Christian, or Buddhist South Asians, male or female. Waayyy less stress.

Anyway, Bangladeshis WORSHIP Arabs and especially Palestinians.

 

[Maori Kiwifruit Growers]

*BPD

Many Muslim women and ESPECIALLY South Asian Muslim women are extremely mentally unstable.

The ones in the West go two ways, insanely covered virtue signalling ones (a decent amount are raging whores in private) or out and about Only fans style "fitness" or "lifestyle" influencers (usually with an only fans too) who are 99/100 GIGANTIC whores.

LPT, stick with Hindu, Christian, or Buddhist South Asians, male or female. Waayyy less stress.

Anyway, Bangladeshis WORSHIP Arabs and especially Palestinians.

Oh yeah I know exactly what you are talking about. But why do they worship the Palestinians and Arabs so much?

 

[Total Annihilation]

Oh yeah I know exactly what you are talking about. But why do they worship the Palestinians and Arabs so much?

Maybe the same reason why Indians love Israel.
Shitpost guess, but mfw it's probably true

 

[ForTheHoard]

Pro-Palestinian protestors are currently blocking I-5 in Seattle. Traffic is super fucked. The police are there but are just sitting in their cars and watching. Cars that have been stuck there all day have found places to slip through the barriers and are driving the wrong way down on-ramps to try and get out. I'm trying to get some videos of it off IG but I don't have an account so I'm having issues getting it to display.

Archiving doesn't work. I guess you'll need an IG account to view it.

https://www.instagram.com/stories/misc.miaj/3274554349468645091?utm_source=ig_story_item_share&igsh=MTlocW5mcDlmcTMweQ==

 

[Fatniggo1488]

Every time I ask the retards on here about why Jews would import people to the west, where must Jewish people live, who want to kill them they explain, “well that’s the self-hating liberal Jews.” 180 iq move, checkmate atheists, etc.

That doesn’t explain why no one on this earth wants to take Palestinians. Imagine being such a waste of humanity you can’t even get kicked out of one country. Jewish kiwi bros should wear that 109 as a badge of pride.

>Jewish kiwi bros should wear that 109 as a badge of pride.
This thread needs a holocaust.

 

[Buster O'Keefe]

I get the feeling most other protest groups have lost momentum: news cycle has moved on, people are inured to this shit now.

 

[pikachudidnothingwrong]

Israel assassinated Ismail Haniyeh's deputy and the number two man in Hamas, Saleh Al-Arouri, in an airstrike in Beirut. Two other senior members of Hamas were killed as well.
View attachment 5606624
×<MEDIA>@https://uploads.kiwifarms.hk
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Nice

Lol lmao
View attachment 5606831

https://twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/1742245997344907638

lol Awesome. This and stealing other people's work wasn't even the worst about her. She's one of the ringleaders of the group that pushed/forced/canceled from the school some guy and his wife because the guy, a criminal defense lawyer, defended in court someone she didn't like. They actually gave this cunt a position of power after undermining the very basis of our legal system!

The moment of the strike:
View attachment 5606882
Photos of the site. Looks like an apartment was targeted as well:

Spoiler: Images

View attachment 5606856View attachment 5606857View attachment 5606858View attachment 5606859View attachment 5606860View attachment 5606861View attachment 5606862View attachment 5606863

The IDF released footage of the drone operator:

Spoiler

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Israeli notice "mourning" the death:
View attachment 5606883

Those images.. Holy crap.. Talk about surgical strike!

There were a total of seven killed in the strike. Hamas says they were all members:
View attachment 5607079

Even better.

Looks like a volcano went off in northern Gaza:
View attachment 5609557

What's being hit here/going on?

Pro-Palestinian protestors are currently blocking I-5 in Seattle. Traffic is super fucked. The police are there but are just sitting in their cars and watching. Cars that have been stuck there all day have found places to slip through the barriers and are driving the wrong way down on-ramps to try and get out. I'm trying to get some videos of it off IG but I don't have an account so I'm having issues getting it to display.

Archiving doesn't work. I guess you'll need an IG account to view it.

https://www.instagram.com/stories/misc.miaj/3274554349468645091?utm_source=ig_story_item_share&igsh=MTlocW5mcDlmcTMweQ==

All day?! How long before someone rightfully just drives through these criminal retards? I mean it's not like they should expect the police to do anything since they aren't already. This is NOT protesting!

I don't think i've ever wanted so much to see someone run right through. Legal immunity should be granted in cases like this. This is social extortion! Every time the left doesn't get what it wants ASAP, they riot and try to ruin the lives of everyone else. Again.. This is NOT protesting and should be illegal for everyone... not just for people and causes the left doesn't like!

 

[EyeGuy]

Pro-Palestinian protestors are currently blocking I-5 in Seattle. Traffic is super fucked. The police are there but are just sitting in their cars and watching. Cars that have been stuck there all day have found places to slip through the barriers and are driving the wrong way down on-ramps to try and get out.

Video:

 

[ForTheHoard]

How long before someone rightfully just drives through these criminal retards?

Never going to happen. The cops are sitting right there daring anyone to try.

 

[GumballFapper]

Anyway, Bangladeshis WORSHIP Arabs and especially Palestinians.

Even more stupid is that many of them are pro-Pakistan, you know, the nation that went full Israel on them in 1971?

 

[EyeGuy]

Three "journalists" were removed from the gene pool in Khan Yunis this morning, including the son of Al Jazeera's Wael Dahdouh, who's already been targeted/wounded/lost a number of family members in Israeli strikes:

Spoiler: Graphic

 

[DiscoRodeo]

Not really related to Hamas specifically, but it always enrages me to no end to see this sort of thing from the cops. Canadian, but I can recall during the BLM riots/protests, cops were the same way. When it was Truckers doing this, however, they froze their bank accounts, jailed them, ruined their businesses, put them on government watch lists, etc.

I just find the hypocrisy so palpable whenever I see this sort of thing.

Never going to happen. The cops are sitting right there daring anyone to try.
View attachment 5617630

 

[FedPostalService]

Not really related to Hamas specifically, but it always enrages me to no end to see this sort of thing from the cops. Canadian, but I can recall during the BLM riots/protests, cops were the same way. When it was Truckers doing this, however, they froze their bank accounts, jailed them, ruined their businesses, put them on government watch lists, etc.

I just find the hypocrisy so palpable whenever I see this sort of thing.

Same here in the UK when the left were practically calling for the police to use live rounds on peaceful pro-Brexit supporters.

They don’t care about the BLM chimp outs as ultimately those people have no real power and what token positions of power they do have could be taken away tomorrow. Better to let them burn themselves out.

When the white middle and working class start getting out on the streets that’s when the elites get worried because that’s when revolutions happen. You remind someone with something to lose that you can take what they have away from them then people start keeping their heads down.

 

[pikachudidnothingwrong]

Video:
View attachment 5617603

What do they plan on achieving? Pissing everyone off?

There is an ambulance stuck in this mess.. lovely.

I don't see any cars blocking it.. are people really that big of cucks that nobody even slowly went through? What the fuck are the police doing? This is kind of a basic thing it's their job to do.

God i'd love to watch a big truck just go through full fucking speed!

 

[EyeGuy]

Khirbet Ikhza'a is really living up to its name. The narrator of the video says that his company received orders to completely destroy the place and that it took them two weeks to do it. It was where the terrorists left for Nir Oz on 7/10:

"There is only one solution for the strip":

More demolitions from Ikhza'a:

 

[Scrumption]

Three "journalists" were removed from the gene pool in Khan Yunis this morning, including the son of Al Jazeera's Wael Dahdouh, who's already been targeted/wounded/lost a number of family members in Israeli strikes:

The IDF struck Wael Dahdouh's house earlier in the war. He was not home but his family members there all were killed in the strike. Can any Israelis explain the reasoning behind what appears to be the targeting of Gazan journalists? Is there some sort of intelligence that they are directly working for Hamas? is it just journalist=bad?