Russian Special Military Operation in the Ukraine - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

So this smells like an attempt to what essentially the USA and allies did with Serbia. Get bunch of countries to agree to a peace plan without Serbs involvement more or less. And then when Serbia didn't follow the peace plan. Claim that Serbia violated it and international backed agreement.


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I honestly wonder. Why even attempt this ? This doesn't make the G7 image look good at all among other great powers. Not to mention makes G7 look even more toothless
Its also alot like what the germans and allies did with czechoslovakia in 1938. But i'm sure nobody involved wants to acknowledge that

Russia will never agree to any of that. We'll see a literal third world war before russia would even remotely consider it

Feline Supremacist said:

Ukraine’s War Effort Is Stuck. This Heroic Battlefield Failure Shows Why.​


LOL every single word of that reads like a fantasy some idiot journo came up with. It sounds like a bad B movie full of walking stereotypes. No way a single word of it is true
 
NATO post 1991 is basically an organization in search of a mission.

Its mission today tends to be to a act as a cartel to divide up defense contracts and the money in the defense business. The US (Paul Wolfowitz in particular) somewhat realized that in post-cold war that NATO had no mission and gave it a new one in terms of endless expansion. The idea of expansion to places Ukraine and Georgia becomes its own justification for NATO keeping going with no purpose.

As the Belgorod attack shows, they're vindictive fucks that care more about symbolic "victories" against a hated ethnic outgroup than accomplishing anything of military value.

Belgorod is just the most recent example. During most of the Donbas conflict they cared more about shelling civilians (and technically ukrainian citizens) then they cared about military success. They will fight to their literal death over Avdiivka because holding Avdiivka means the dream of dropping more shells on civilians in Donetsk City is still alive.
 
only sort of true.
Which is more than enough!

I am aware that there are defences against this kind of weapon. But they are unstoppable in the way that is contextually appropriate. They were initially developed to break the stalemate of the WWI trenches, and given the general ignorance about the weapons among the public, it is a real risk that they will see use again "due to the circumstances of battle" and "the war crimes of the enemy" - i.e the same reason they were used in the first place, way back in the First World War.

For example - the detection methods, sponges and things used for "light" contamination. These seem to be... a way of dissuading the use of weapons. The suits are uncomfortable, and the example I gave of an unstoppable nightmare scenario was in the context of this war.

First - from what I know, the USSR developed their agents in both Soviet republics and both were experienced in their manufacture and use. So while Russia might have countermeasures, Ukraine would be entirely aware of them.

Second - to my best understanding, the countermeasures have only ever been tested in the scenario of long-range missiles or a diffuse, wide-spanning contamination. Hence, early warning signs, two-minutes-to-survive training and the use of hazmat suits.

It's all based around speculation and there is no reason to believe that the speculation is accurate to begin with. The reason why they fell out of favour in the First World War was because of the defences against them. But used as a directed, tactical weapon - there simply isn't a defence for it. As far as I know, there hasn't been any produced either.

What I had in mind, specifically, was Ukraine loading a series of "fountain" payload, similar to their 40mm payload. Dropped from a drone.

Including internal mechanisms, I would say 0.5kg or 0.25kg of payload per device. This payload would be, rather than a diffuse contamination designed to cause harm across a wide area, a focused effort far beyond the lethal contamination limit.

0.25L - the smaller of the two - would be able to produce a lethal effect in a "normal" situation, within a few minutes in a focused area regardless of defence measures. There would be more than enough on your body to guarantee death. The defences depend on the presumption that continued exposure will lead to death - but it is extremely unlikely that a competent force would do that. I.E there doesn't seem to be any defence against "tactical" use - all these defences are for the "strategic, fuck you" kind of attack.

The lethal limit in a human if injected, according to tests, is a max of 5mg for a really fat bloke - for sarin, which I know is not the most advanced. So let's say, 25mg or 50mg for a "splash of guaranteed death"

So referring back to that example - in order to guarantee 25mg of contact within the exposed area. I will use a

So you would have 25mg dispersed across, as a guess, 10cm x 10cm (assuming that the target is in line-of-sight)

An explosive with that payload would fire out 250g in a sphere. Regardless of defences or warnings - the payload would be fired out directly onto the target, rather than contaminating an area.

That sphere would need to spread 10^-5 per 0.01m^2 - so 10^-3 per m^2

It would have around a thousand square meters of lethal surface area - so just keeping it around a hyperlethal area, a chemical charge using any of these agents would still have a blast radius of around ten meters for guaranteed death. Doubling the payload, since it's a square-root kind of deal, would increase that radius to like, 13 meters - Shaping the charge, or altering it in some way, would increase precision and increase that range further.

This could include "poisoned charges" - essentially, a solid compound or structure which metabolises into the desired poison within the body. So now, you only need a small piece of shrapnel to guarantee death.

This is why I said nightmare scenario. While a broad-spanning use of strategic WMDs is unlikely, I can absolutely see Ukraine, and the USA backing them, in using chemical warheads in a tactical scenario. I can 100% see Biden saying that it's fair play because it's used as a directed weapon against legitimate targets, and callously remarking that the only regret Ukrainians should feel is "the damage to the environment" - trying to alter the field in favour of Ukraine, and if Russia responds, invading in full to support Ukraine.

I have a weird ass problem with memory loss and aphasia, hence my prophetic yet often unintelligible posts. I can assure you, despite the pink triangle, that I am not entirely retarded.

I think I got this, partially, from World War Z, where Ukraine was the country which gassed its own population to stop the undead horde. So far, it has been a valuable resource in understanding national character and the strengths or weaknesses of each individual country. It sounds dumb, but holy fuck - I would suggest you read it as it has not failed me, yet. It also explains, similar to what we've seen here, the failures of NATO doctrine in a wider, open conflict limited by resources and manpower.

This was combined with the repeated use of directed weapons by Russia and others, as a tool for assassination to produce a legitimate scenario where chemical weapons could be used and justified by NATO as turnabout, since Russia used these weapons in Salisbury for targeted use.

Feel free to ask me what I think in more detail, because honestly, now that I am being treated, I only just realise why I think certain things or how I draw my oftentimes correct, but poorly expressed predictions.
 
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Second - to my best understanding, the countermeasures have only ever been tested in the scenario of long-range missiles or a diffuse, wide-spanning contamination. Hence, early warning signs.
The best way to deliver these chemical weapons payloads would be to use self-destructing weaponized trains that travel along the existing rail systems of Ukraine deep into Russian-occupied territory.
 
The best way to deliver these chemical weapons payloads would be to use self-destructing weaponized trains that travel along the existing rail systems of Ukraine deep into Russian-occupied territory.
Actually, to clarify, now:

The trains were not a commentary on Russia's intent or a legitimate aspiration of Russia. It was a commentary on how the European Union has done absolutely nothing, despite an obvious "threat" to their territory. I don't think any of the European leaders actually see Russia as a threat, and are only doing the bare minimum to avoid getting hit by the USA.

I suspect that all of the European countries, except for Poland, have been communicating in-secret with Russia and have their own plans if an invasion actually happens. It isn't ignorance or ineffectiveness, it's a survival strategy. War would be a complete loss for all of Europe, and NATO's policy is essentially for Europeans to suffer while Americans don't. I think that most of Europe has the exact same military policy, doing the bare minimum to make sure they don't take heavy losses.

The complete lack of defences for, yes, trains but also ships, cars, trucks - there is genuinely no way Europe has a serious military policy for war against Russia. If Russia were to even try, there would be no actual sizeable defence against it - the Americans would be the only legitimate threat to Europe.

While Europe is dragging its feet, they seem to be signalling to the Russians that if Russia wins, they are willing to negotiate. This negotiation would result in the destruction of America as a global power. Ramstein, and the other European bases, are the only reason why America could actually pose a threat to the Middle Eastern countries - Iraq was only possible because of the network. There are over twenty thousand USAF employed across the EU.

The trains are only an image to show how unprepared and unwilling the Europeans are to engage with Russia.
I believe this is why they blew up that pipeline, too. It wasn't a threat to Russia. It was a threat to Europe - obey, or else. If you don't fight, we will destroy whatever you try to build with the Russians. We will sabotage any agreement between the EU and Russia.

And this glow-op isn't without precedent - I think that the EU has been trying to cooperate with Russia for years.

I do not think that trains will be the actual method used, but I really hope they are. The most likely scenario is some boring energy deal, for natural gas and oil. But in the end, the EU will become a neutral group and side with the Russians/Chinese rather than the USA.
 
Here's a fundraising idea for Russia: offer to start giving Cogent executives a vacation in Moscow at $100,000 per head. Or whatever is the price of an APC. There are now more people than Farmers who would like some way to fight back against their digital dictatorsip

After the first few get relocated maybe a nice letter can be sent asking politely to stop Jewing the entire internet at the behest of a modern day Frankenstein.
 
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Oh no!

U.S. Tech Powers Russian Missile Onslaught on Ukraine as Sanctions Fall Short​


ussia's latest onslaught of drones and missiles against Ukraine has been made possible by imports of Western technology through the "widespread and systemic" evasion of sanctions imposed by the U.S. and its allies, a new Ukrainian study shows.
Russia each month imports billions of dollars in technology for its war effort, evading Western sanctions by routing the trade through China, NATO member Turkey and other countries, according to a new report by the KSE Institute, a think tank at the Kyiv School of Economics, to which Newsweek was given exclusive access.
The sanctions evasion has helped sustain Russia's military as President Vladimir Putin in recent weeks has signaled plans for a protracted conflict in Ukraine. The war has reached a critical stage, with Russian forces dug in in eastern Ukraine and Ukraine struggling to defend its territory without additional military aid from the West.
"The sanctions are not effective enough right now," Olena Bilousova, the senior researcher on military and dual-use goods at KSE Institute, told Newsweek. Russia's barrage of missile and drone strikes inside Ukraine underscore the problem, she said. "They're all made from Western components."
The KSE Institute report was produced jointly with the Yermak-McFaul International Working Group on Russian Sanctions, which is led by Andrii Yermak, a senior adviser to President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine.
In the first 10 months of 2023, Russia imported $8.7 billion in semiconductors, communications technology and other high-priority goods produced primarily for military use that fall under export controls put in place against Russia by the U.S., the European Union and other nations backing Ukraine, according to the study.
During the same period, Russia imported $22.2 billion in electronics, computer components and other so-called critical components that can be used for civilian purposes or adopted for military use, the report found.
A majority of the critical components, also known as dual-use goods, that have turned up in Russian weapons in Ukraine were made by companies headquartered in the U.S., the analysis found, highlighting a persistent problem for the Biden administration in enforcing its sanctions regime against Moscow.

White House Defends Sanctions​

The White House has defended the sanctions put in place by the U.S. and its allies, arguing they've had an impact on degrading Russia's military capability.
"We still believe that the export controls and the sanctions that we and our partners have put in place have had a detrimental effect on [Russia's] defense industrial capacity," National Security Council spokesman John Kirby told reporters at a press conference last week.
Nevertheless, the Ukrainian government has identified hundreds of components of Western technology in Russian missiles, drones, tanks and a wide range of other weapons systems and military equipment destroyed on the battlefield in Ukraine, according to the KSE Institute.
The report is based on Russian trade data and the Ukrainian government's analysis of Russian weapons found in Ukraine. Newsweek and other news outlets have reported on Russia's export control and sanctions evasion in the past. The new report contains previously unreported details on the scope of Russia's sanctions evasion since it invaded Ukraine in February, 2022, including new data from the first three quarters of 2023.
The new findings show that the sanctions have only had a marginal impact, said George Barros, a Russia analyst at the Institute for the Study of War.
"Sanctions are an important and necessary thing, but they're not a substitution for a clear-eyed strategy for how to really defeat the Russians," Barros told Newsweek.

Imports Slowed​

The latest snapshot of Russia's sanctions evasion contains some glimmers of hope for Western policymakers seeking to slow Moscow's military machine.
Russia experienced a sharp decline in critical technology imports in the early months of the war as the first round of sanctions took effect. Moscow quickly recovered, however, and ramped up technology imports in the second half of 2022.
But last year Russian imports of banned technology slowed, the data shows, a sign that Russia may face limits in accessing some critical Western goods.
The very fact that Russia continues importing advanced technology from the West for weapons systems also suggests that Moscow is unable, at least right now, to produce the technology on its own, Bilousova said.
ere was widespread concern in the West at the start of the war that Russia would respond to sanctions by producing its own advanced technology or sourcing it from China. But so far that hasn't happened.
Newsweek reached out for comment to the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
A spokesman for the Chinese embassy in Washington, D.C., told Newsweek that China "prudently handles the export of dual-use items" while maintaining normal economic and trade relations with Russia.
"China does not sell weapons to parties involved in the Ukraine crisis and prudently handles the export of dual-use items in accordance with laws and regulations," said the spokesman, Liu Pengyu.
China remains the chief third-party country through which most critical technology is funneled to Russia: in the first ten months of last year, 53 percent of Russian imports of critical components were sold from or shipped through China, according to the trade data.
Yet the vast majority of the goods are manufactured in the West, and American companies play a major role. Since the start of the war, 72 percent of the Russian technology imports for military use have come from companies with headquarters in the United States, the study found.
Most major U.S. technology companies have suspended operations in Russia and don't sell directly to firms in the country. Russian companies with ties to the military hide the purchases through a complex web of transactions, making them difficult to track.
Still, private sector companies could do a much better job of complying with sanctions and export controls, said Erika Trujillo, the co-founder and managing director of SEIA, a firm in Munich, Germany that advises multinational companies on trade compliance.
"We still have a lot of challenges to overcome in terms of how to do meaningful compliance," Trujillo said.
Bilousova of the KSE Institute argued governments should step up enforcement measures, better coordinate export controls between countries and take other steps to push companies to ensure critical components don't reach Russia and wind up in weapons deployed in the fight against Ukraine.
"If we continue to push right now and do more with export controls" it could have a bigger impact on Russia over time, Bilousova said. "The good news here is that we know a lot of the [supply] routes, and we can do more to block them."
 
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Russia each month imports billions of dollars in technology for its war effort, evading Western sanctions by routing the trade through China, NATO member Turkey and other countries, according to a new report by the KSE Institute, a think tank at the Kyiv School of Economics, to which Newsweek was given exclusive access.
I remember seeing an article in RT (Russia Today) in 2018 or so bragging about how Russia had increased its wheat export massively after an effort to increase domestic food production. I knew immediately that Russia was preparing to fight against 2014 style sanctions.

Putin has his flaws but he managed to basically completely avoid the negative effects of sanctions through his handling of the economy. He spent years after 2014 doing little things that would allow him to not have to worry about it.

Also interesting to note the lack of adaptability of the west. Sanctions were painful in 2014 in Russia and the west just expected they could do the same thing harder with a bigger effect. They couldn't and didn't conceive of Russia adapting to their strategy. And this was supposed to be the knockout blow that destroyed Putin. This isn't the only time the west has employed an old strategy or tactic and expected it work. The west keeps trying the same failed thing.
 
None of this is likely to make any difference.
I disagree. The naval part, sure I agree, but having more drones (ukraine should focus on the number of drones, not their quality)? That's certainly useful. More missiles? Sure, just not for air. Unmaned mine clearing equipment? They certainly need that.

That wouldn't necessarily win them the war, but they could certainly make a difference.

Anyway:
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The very fact that Russia continues importing advanced technology from the West for weapons systems also suggests that Moscow is unable, at least right now, to produce the technology on its own, Bilousova said.

A big part of the "problem" is that they are not importing much of anything "from the west" nor is what they are importing "western technology" these days. They are importing it from the same places "the west" is importing it from. There is this delusion that even though most of the technology is made outside the US, that US law can somehow control its sale and distribution. Those days are long over. This is what "free trade", a "global economy" and outsourcing mean. The US doesn't have that kind of power anymore.

There are no "dual use" components anymore. What they are talking about is commodity semiconductors and electronic components. The global market for that stuff is too big and too liquid for anyone to enforce trade sanctions like that.
 
Sometimes I wonder what is going on there. Making everyone poor really fucking sucks.
American policy in Europe is "keep the Germans down and Russians out" and has been that way since WW2. Germany being so prosperous after unification is an aberration to this gambit. Once you correctly view Biden's fuckups through this lens you will instantly understand that the US has been planning this fucking war since 2014 and it was supposed to be kicked off during Hillary's time in office. Trump being in office has absolutely derailed the timeline on the war. I think the way they envisioned it was endless insurgency that Russia would be devoured by, not formal battle lines with organized military units, which favors Russia since its easier to cull the Ukrainian population of willing combatants.
 
LOL every single word of that reads like a fantasy some idiot journo came up with. It sounds like a bad B movie full of walking stereotypes. No way a single word of it is true
The media has been desperate to color this as some fantastical clash between good and evil since it started.
American policy in Europe is "keep the Germans down and Russians out" and has been that way since WW2. Germany being so prosperous after unification is an aberration to this gambit. Once you correctly view Biden's fuckups through this lens you will instantly understand that the US has been planning this fucking war since 2014 and it was supposed to be kicked off during Hillary's time in office. Trump being in office has absolutely derailed the timeline on the war. I think the way they envisioned it was endless insurgency that Russia would be devoured by, not formal battle lines with organized military units, which favors Russia since its easier to cull the Ukrainian population of willing combatants.
Oh yeah, you could feel it in the wind when Trump was elected. They were pissed that their plans were derailed since Hillary was obviously meant to start a war with Russia. She fucking campaigned on it.
 
'Definitely a trap': Ukraine's sappers face new dangers
"It is no secret that Russia has very good sappers, perhaps the best,"
"We have even lost soldiers because of a booby-trapped pack of Pepsi cans."


A deafening explosion shakes the ground, sending lumps of dirt and smoke into the air, breaking the seeming tranquility of a cold January morning in the frozen fields of war-torn Ukraine's eastern Donbas region.

After almost two years of grinding trench warfare against invading Russian troops, some 30 percent of Ukrainian territory is thought to be littered with unexploded mines.
"The Russians connect the mines," Sergeant Boller, a Ukrainian sapper teaching recruits, told AFP.
"If you try to remove them, you can kill your entire unit," he warned.
Getting rid of the mines is essential to Ukraine's war effort, as they clear the way for offensive operations and allow civilians to return to their homes.
But sappers warn their already dangerous job is being complicated by a lack of recruits and ever-more lethal Russian minelaying techniques.

Holding mines in his hand, Anatolii, another sapper, warned new recruits of potential booby-traps.
"A banknote, a pack of cigarettes, a phone... It's definitely a trap," he told worried soldiers in the freezing cold.
"We have even lost soldiers because of a booby-trapped pack of Pepsi cans."
'I heard them'
Sappers are often the first to get to the frontline, clearing territory before assault troops arrive.
The motto of Ukraine's sappers is "always ahead of the first", and they have more direct contact with the frontline than other military units.
But it is difficult to find people willing to take such risks.
"In addition to distinguishing explosives, you need to know their chemical composition and how to handle them... You need to be educated," said Boller.
"It's hard to find intelligent people who are not afraid," he said.

Their job is "indispensable" in the war with Russia, the head of the Ukrainian army's anti-mining department Colonel Oleg Shyvarskiy said.
"Mechanised units will never start an offensive until the sappers have cleaned up," he told AFP.
He said their situation was "not critical" thanks to international assistance and the opening of new training centres.
But he acknowledged recruitment difficulties and that most people "are simply afraid to train to become a sapper."
Boller said he was once no more than 120 metres from Russian troops.
"I heard them insulting me," he said.
'Innovation'
Ukrainian sappers increasingly encounter Russian tactics designed to make their job harder.
Kyiv says Russia's minelaying strategy is constantly improving, combining anti-personnel mines and anti-tank mines, as well as explosives dropped by helicopter.
There is "innovation on the Russian side", Colonel Shyvarskiy admits.
He said Moscow is laying mines "randomly."
"In some areas, mines are laid less than half a metre from each other."
The true number of mines planted by Russia in Ukraine, he said, is impossible to know.
"We will only know after the de-occupation of our territory."
For Anatolii, 42, the job requires "flare and intuition" since Russia is constantly setting traps.
"It is no secret that Russia has very good sappers, perhaps the best," he added.
'That will not stop us'
Sergeant Boller was covered in dirt after detonating an anti-tank mine during a training exercise.
He tapped a mine with a shovel, as soldiers near him cautiously stepped back.

"It allows soldiers to get used to explosions," the 43-year-old said, smiling.
"We mostly work at night, testing the ground with a stick in our hands," he said.
"We crawl on the ground, in the mud, in the shit...," he lamented. "The Russians plant them everywhere."
In his previous life before Russia invaded in February 2022, Boller was a landscaper in Germany, earning a good salary.
He has lost friends and colleagues in his new job.
"Those who did not die have lost their legs," he said, solemnly.
"But that will not stop me."


Oh no guys, the ukraine just found out sappers exist
 
Ukraine’s War Effort Is Stuck. This Heroic Battlefield Failure Shows Why.

The source for the article (Capt. Anatoliy Kharchenko) is an officer in the 132nd Separate Recon Battalion. Ukraine gives fancy titles to units like "paratrooper" and "recon" which many times don't at all reflect the training or reality of the unit in question. This guy has been a go-to source for any number of journalists in Ukraine for a while. His comments always exactly reflect whatever the official message of the Ukraine government is. That he is a 45 year old captain in a Recon battalion says alot about the state of Ukraine's military.

The article reflects the pointless fighting that occurred late in the summer south of Robotyne. The offensive had clearly failed but Ukraine was determined not to admit that and poured just about all of its reserves - including the battalion - into frontal infantry assaults on prepared Russian defensive positions. They would gather up a concentration of troops in the area of Robotyne and then send them across open fields usually under heavy Russian fire from multiple directions.

They would sometimes have a degree of success. They would often reach a trench line on the outer edges of Verbove. Then the Russians would fall back. The Ukrainians would usually have suffered such losses to get to the position that they could not hold that position. Or the position would prove impossible to reach with any sort of vehicle.

In doing the same things over and over again, they never actually managed to establish themselves in Verbove. The whole thing (like the entire offensive in the area) was just a very bloody failure. They also learned nothing from it because they are using the same logic today in places like Krynky along the Dneiper river. No plan. No strategy. Just throw wave after wave of men into the same situation with no thought and no plan to speak of at all.
 
I don't know how reputable this particular Estonian outlet is, but after Zelensky was spotted around the Baltics in a dirty Mercedes car earlier
View attachment 5628759
this article came out;
View attachment 5628756

More proof they are really trying to draft Ukrainian refugees in Estonia after local officials gave the green light.
Supposedly this is a clip from the speech he gave in the Baltics claiming Ukraine has shot down a dozen planes and two dozen helicopters in a single day. Can anyone translate? That would be pretty funny.



 
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Will Ukraine’s Refugees Want to Go Back Home? (Archive)
Based on cursory observations, Russia is looking at a long-term victory. The Uks who fled were wealthier and better educated causing a major brain drain on the country. Their population was already in decline but the sudden diaspora is a death blow. They left and are not coming back. Those people, who are crucial not only to your fighting force in the short term but rebuilding the country in the long term, are gone.

Sometime in the next 2 quarters, I predict a bloodless coup will happen while Zelensky is rattling his tip jar in some other country.
 
I don't know how reputable this particular Estonian outlet is, but after Zelensky was spotted around the Baltics in a dirty Mercedes car earlier
View attachment 5628759
this article came out;
View attachment 5628756

More proof they are really trying to draft Ukrainian refugees in Estonia after local officials gave the green light.
That picture of the little person in the backseat.

For fucks sake, give the man a booster seat. lol
 
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