Business Thousands of Software Engineers Say the Job Market Is Getting Much Worse - 9,388 engineers polled by Motherboard and Blind said AI will lead to less hiring. Only 6% were confident they'd get another job with the same pay.


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For much of the 21st century, software engineering has been seen as one of the safest havens in the tenuous and ever-changing American job market.

But there are a growing number of signs that the field is starting to become a little less secure and comfortable, due to an industry-wide downturn and the looming threat of artificial intelligence that is spurring growing competition for software jobs.

“The amount of competition is insane,” said Joe Forzano, an unemployed software engineer who has worked at the mental health startup Alma and private equity giant Blackstone.

Has AI affected your job? We want to hear from you. From a non-work device, contact our reporter at maxwell.strachan@vice.com or via Signal at 310-614-3752 for extra security.

Since he lost his job in March, Forzano has applied to over 250 jobs. In six cases, he went through the “full interview gauntlet,” which included between six and eight interviews each, before learning he had been passed over. “It has been very, very rough,” he told Motherboard.

Forzano is not alone in his pessimism, according to a December survey of 9,338 software engineers performed on behalf of Motherboard by Blind, an online anonymous platform for verified employees. In the poll, nearly nine in 10 surveyed software engineers said it is more difficult to get a job now than it was before the pandemic, with 66 percent saying it was “much harder.”

Nearly 80 percent of respondents said the job market has even become more competitive over the last year. Only 6 percent of the software engineers were “extremely confident” they could find another job with the same total compensation if they lost their job today while 32 percent said they were “not at all confident.”

Over 2022 and 2023, the tech sector incurred more than 400,000 layoffs, according to the tracking site Layoffs.fyi. But up until recently, it seemed software engineers were more often spared compared to their co-workers in non-technical fields. One analysis found tech companies cut their recruiting teams by 50 percent, compared to only 10 percent of their engineering departments. At Salesforce, engineers were four times less likely to lose their jobs than those in marketing and sales, which Bloomberg has said is a trend replicated at other tech companies such as Dell and Zoom.

But signs of dread among software engineers have started to become more common online. In December, one Amazon employee wrote a long post on the anonymous employee platform Blind saying that the “job market is terrible” and that he was struggling to get interviews of any sort.

The situation is a stark shift from much of the past two decades, when computer science degrees and coding bootcamps exploded in popularity due to the financial security they both promised. Entry-level Google software engineers reportedly earned almost $200,000 a year and lived a life full of splashy perks, and engineers always seemed in high demand, meaning the next job was never hard to find.

As an undergraduate at the University of Pennsylvania in the early 2010s, Forzano had decided to major in computer science. The degree had put him in $180,000 of debt, but he saw it as a calculated bet on a sturdy field of work. “The whole concept was [that] it was a good investment to have that ‘Ivy League degree’ in an engineering field,” he said. He thought he’d be set for life.

Early in his career, that seemed to be true. Recruiters spammed him with opportunities, and he was easily able to jump from job to job and became a manager. The field felt so secure that the phrase “learn to code” became a mocking rejoinder whenever people in other fields expressed concern about their own job prospects online.

But the messages from recruiters have largely dried up since the pandemic, and getting the sort of jobs software engineers took for granted has become much harder. “There's just so much fucking competition,” he said. “It's a completely different landscape.” Thinking back to his decision to major in computer science as an undergraduate, he said he now feels “very naive.”

With the entrance of artificial intelligence into the conversation recently, there have been signs of a sea change in the coding world. AI programs that allow users to write code using natural language or auto-complete code were among the first wave of AI tools to take off. Google CEO Sundar Pichai said last year that AI-powered coding tools had reduced the time it takes workers to complete code by 6 percent.

“In the age of AI, computer science is no longer the safe major,” Kelli María Korducki wrote in The Atlantic in September. Matt Welsh, an entrepreneur who used to serve as a computer science professor at Harvard, told the magazine that the ability of AI to perform software engineering functions could lead to less job security and lower compensation for all but the very best in the software trade.

As of December, software engineers were not expressing much concern about AI making their jobs redundant. Only 28 percent saying they were “very” or “slightly” concerned in the Blind poll, and 72 percent saying they were “not really” or “not at all” concerned.

But when not considering their own situation, the software engineering world’s views on AI became markedly less optimistic. More than 60 percent of those surveyed said they believed their company would hire fewer people because of AI moving forward.

Forzano has not been shy about his trouble, sharing his pursuit for a new job on social media. The decision has led him to feel less alone, he said, as other tech workers expressed similar frustration about not being able to get interviews for jobs they felt overqualified for.

“We're all kind of like, ‘What the fuck is happening?’” he said.



Techbros... we got too cocky...

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On a more serious note, it's not that AI will sweep in and "took are jeeeerbs", the whole market is readjusting and with it, there will be lots of losses in the process. Just be sure to have an exit plan, no matter what.
 
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Blaming AI is total bullshit, all the AI tools are really good for right now is some boilerplate and autocomplete. They can't do anything particularly complex.
The real reasons for this are that the economy is a shitshow, companies overhired the last few years, and they massively prefer DIE and foreigners to hiring competent Americans because they're cheaper and get them ESG points. This was predictable when companies started pushing the return-to-office mandates, those were attempts to get employees to lay themselves off. But of course, they can't point to the real reasons because they're politically uncomfortable to admit.
 
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Unpopular opinion: If you can't compete with a foreigner, you were not meant to have that job in the first place.
I have no problem, generally, with different markets benefiting from exchanges with each other. I have no problem with free markets and prefer them to be as free as possible.

But let's be honest about what's going on here. Companies are taking people from less developed countries with much lower standards of living and giving them jobs instead of Americans because it's cheaper. They don't have to be great at their jobs, just not total disasters. And no matter how good an American worker is, they live in a different marketplace with more regulation and a higher standard of living, and that means they literally cannot compete against Pajeets who will do the needful and share a studio apartment with 6 other curry-munchers in order to send the money back home.

If we're going to talk about reducing regulation, that would help. But we won't.
 
It's not the AI. It has never happened in the history of the universe that a new technology frontier has opened and there's suddenly LESS demand for the relevant profession. A free money bubble burst, is all.

Even journos don't get fired because they aren't needed, journos were never needed, no one was reading all that DIE word salad except CatParty. Journos get fired because there's less free money to hand out.

If you want an extremely secure tech job that involves programming. Learn to develop backend and understand (usually old) architecture. Such expertise is rarer and rarer to find and makes you extremely hard to get rid of.

Being a dumbass frontend web developer exposes you to being let go a lot more than other software engineering work. I deliberately moved out of app development into backend data related development. I've tried to quit my current job twice and they threw money at me to stay both times.
I do backend and I see frontend is in higher demand (however, I'm in Russia). I don't want to learn frontend because it seems I won't be able to keep up with changing fashions unless I go full frontend, and fuck that.

- Lmao learn to flip burgers.
Burgers have already been automated. I'm all for burger robots replacing trannies, a robot won't cum in the milkshake.
 
But most foreign labour isn't as skilled. They just put up with worse pay and worse treatment, since their whole presence in the western country is predicated on making their employer happy.
Which is why management loves them. A pajeet H1B is basically slave labor that can be told to work 60+ hours a week with no way to say no. Yeah their code sucks but you get a army of them for dirt cheap that will do anything you say.

Then they hire me to fix all their work for a crap ton of money but hey, might actually be cheaper in the long run.
 
To be fair, no one should be replaced by foreign labour. It violates how the market is supposed to function.
Sadly the ability to chain a H1B to a job for the exact lowest pay they can legally be offered is too great to stop.


Ahahaha how are those perks now Googlers??? HOW ARE They NOW?!?!
You have a legitimate point that will be brought up by many security experts but will be promptly ignored by execs cumming over the AI buzzword. Same thing that happened with the blockchain, nft, all that stuff.
Holy shit you and I must work at the same place 😬
 
Degrees don't matter that much after the first few years. I have a bachelor's in history and got hired because I did certs and contracting work. In person college is arguably a bad move because it takes you out of the workforce for 4 critical years and puts you into debt for what is essentially a check mark on a list.
I agree with this. It’s better to have a resume with work experience than just a bachelors degree. A lot of jobs will pay for education too. If you have solid working experience they know that you’re less risky to invest in.
 
  • Agree
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You have a legitimate point that will be brought up by many security experts but will be promptly ignored by execs cumming over the AI buzzword. Same thing that happened with the blockchain, nft, all that stuff.
Keyword, security experts.

This is why Cyber Security/Infosec is where it's at, frens.



This dude is pretty legit, check out his videos and pay attention to what he says, he's actually providing solid advice.

The important part is, you can make your way into it just by doing what you're currently doing, but think about it from a security standpoint - how could it be exploited, what risk does it pose, and how laborious is it to fix it/make it right.

And then you show up to those PM/exec meetings where they jerk each other off and show them the receipts, where they approved X, Y and Z features to be shipped even with glaring security issues that they chose to ignore.

Fun times.
 
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Blaming AI is total bullshit, all the AI tools are really good for right now is some boilerplate and autocomplete. They can't do anything particularly complex.
The real reasons for this are that the economy is a shitshow, companies overhired the last few years, and they massively prefer DIE and foreigners to hiring competent Americans because they're cheaper and get them ESG points. This was predictable when companies started pushing the return-to-office mandates, those were attempts to get employees to lay themselves off. But of course, they can't point to the real reasons because they're politically uncomfortable to admit.
Another big one is that software salaries are heavily over-inflated compared to other similar industries. The last part of the headline is telling - “only 6% were confident that they’d get another job with the same pay”.
 
Keyword, security experts.

This is why Cyber Security/Infosec is where it's at, frens.



The important part is, you can make your way into it just by doing what you're currently doing, but think about it from a security standpoint - how could it be exploited, what risk does it pose, and how laborious is it to fix it/make it right.

And then you show up to those PM/exec meetings where they jerk each other off and show them the receipts, where they approved X, Y and Z features to be shipped even with glaring security issues that they chose to ignore.

Fun times.
If Jackie Singh can get a job in it any retard can. That's what's great about IT, the beginning of a career is really flexible and opportunities are everywhere.
 
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