James Bond Debate Thread - Autistic about James Bond? Click Here.

The diversity push was strong with the DAD and TND movies, but the North Korean sun laser was alright.
I enjoyed Tomorrow Never Dies. I just wish it wasn’t a follow up to Goldeneye and it feels a little sparse and undeveloped in some areas.

The Daniel Craig films really didn’t fare so well after Casino Royale. Quantum of Solace was an massive missed opportunity and Spectre was just slow.
 
In no particular order:
Daniel Craig was good in Casino Royale. It's one of the better Bond films imo. The Chris Cornell opening was excellent.
Quantum of Solace was so bad I don't remember shit about it besides there was a hot redhead who got drowned in crude oil.
Skyfall was boring. I know people like to dunk on the Craig films but for some reason people act like that one is ok.
Pierce Brosnan was a good Bond and his era was a fun era, even if the films were corny. The World Is Not Enough is probably the worst of the lot. if I was gonna pick a film to show to my kids in the future to try and get them into Bond, it would be one of Brosnan's. They're not that antiquated and they're goofy enough for kids.
On Her Majesty's Secret Service is the best film.
 
In no particular order:
Daniel Craig was good in Casino Royale. It's one of the better Bond films imo. The Chris Cornell opening was excellent.
Quantum of Solace was so bad I don't remember shit about it besides there was a hot redhead who got drowned in crude oil.
Skyfall was boring. I know people like to dunk on the Craig films but for some reason people act like that one is ok.
Pierce Brosnan was a good Bond and his era was a fun era, even if the films were corny. The World Is Not Enough is probably the worst of the lot. if I was gonna pick a film to show to my kids in the future to try and get them into Bond, it would be one of Brosnan's. They're not that antiquated and they're goofy enough for kids.
On Her Majesty's Secret Service is the best film.
Lazenby‘s Bond was able to convey the type of film that OHMSS wanted to be. Thats why Diamonds are Forever felt like a whiplash. They tried to connect it to OHMSS with the opening, but I feel like by accident they did an “Well OHMSS didnt happen, YOLT happened prior to Diamonds.”
 
Fuck it, just gonna shoot the shit and get some of my thoughts on Bond out there. Since the thread seems to be talking about Brosnan, I can focus on that too:

The main Bond I grew up with is Sean Connery, as his films were what introduced me to James Bond. I definitely have a lot of nostalgia for them, especially Goldfinger and Thunderball

On Her Majesty's Secret Service was really good and Lazenby probably would've been great if he was able to do more films.

I think Roger Moore is the corniest James Bond. Like you had the voodoo shit of Live and Let Die, three nipples Scaramanga and Bond in fucking space. I know Brosnan gets flack for the giant sun space laser and the gene therapy but Moore had some autistic stuff too.

I feel like I need to revisit the Dalton movies again as I don't have strong memories of them.

Looking back, I find Brosnan's movies fun to watch, even if they are cheesy at times. I think I like it because it contrasts the realism and more grounded tone of the Craig films and instead of trying to be all gritty, it's like fuck it, let's have fun. I think if you don't take them too seriously you'll enjoy them.

I liked Casino Royale, I would say it's Craig's best movie, but I don't particularly like the later ones.
 
Lazenby‘s Bond was able to convey the type of film that OHMSS wanted to be. Thats why Diamonds are Forever felt like a whiplash. They tried to connect it to OHMSS with the opening, but I feel like by accident they did an “Well OHMSS didnt happen, YOLT happened prior to Diamonds.”
I think Roger Moore is the corniest James Bond. Like you had the voodoo shit of Live and Let Die, three nipples Scaramanga and Bond in fucking space. I know Brosnan gets flack for the giant sun space laser and the gene therapy but Moore had some autistic stuff too.
Bond in space is cursed. You Only Live Twice and Moonraker are two of the shittier films imo.
 
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Luciana Paluzzi is my favorite Bond girl and her character, the villainous Fiona would have been a good choice for a spinoff series. A sexy Italian sniper. Too bad Thunderball is a legal mess.
 
In no particular order:
Daniel Craig was good in Casino Royale. It's one of the better Bond films imo. The Chris Cornell opening was excellent.
Quantum of Solace was so bad I don't remember shit about it besides there was a hot redhead who got drowned in crude oil.
Skyfall was boring. I know people like to dunk on the Craig films but for some reason people act like that one is ok.
Pierce Brosnan was a good Bond and his era was a fun era, even if the films were corny. The World Is Not Enough is probably the worst of the lot. if I was gonna pick a film to show to my kids in the future to try and get them into Bond, it would be one of Brosnan's. They're not that antiquated and they're goofy enough for kids.
On Her Majesty's Secret Service is the best film.
I've said it before and will say it again, Casino Royale was retroactively damaged by the movies that came after it.
 
I've said it before and will say it again, Casino Royale was retroactively damaged by the movies that came after it.
Having one deconstruction of Bond should be enough, but they just kept doing it. It's like they think the only way to do heroes any more is to deconstruct them and trash their employers/agencies. (Kind of like how the Mission: Impossible film series keeps turning up traitors in the IMF and CIA, or the TV show "24" did the same "traitor/spy in the agency" thing every season.)

You can kind of see what they wanted to do, linking the movies together as a progression of Craig's Bond, instead of having stand-alone movies that reset the world in between films so each is Just Another Spy Mission. But they did it badly.

And really, that's not what Bond is supposed to be. The very name "James Bond" was chosen by Fleming to be the most boring name possible, because Bond was supposed to be a gray man, just another spy doing his job. The mission was the point of the stories, not delving deep into his motivations or criticizing the concept of spy agencies themselves.

(I haven't seen the latest one, No Time To Die, but I also haven't heard anyone with a positive impression of it, so I assume it continues the previous films' mistakes.)
 
I fucking adore the over the top, downright stupid, nature of moore's films, their fun and enjoyable to sit through
License to kill is also an underrated gem and I wish dalton got more movies
Dalton almost had a third film and their proposal for Bond 17 was weird. Imagine an mix between Tomorrow Never Dies, and Die Another Day.

They wanted Anthony Hopkins as the antagonist of the film.
 
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Finally, a good fucking debate thread I can give my two cents in.

-Roger Moore is my favorite of the Bonds, I love the goofy over-the-top nature of the films and I feel like this is Bond at its peak. Not to say the others are bad, but I just think prefer the nature of thsee films. Man with the Golden Gun, Live and Let Die and Moonraker are among some of my favorites.

-I thought Brosnan was pretty good, but I personally lost interest after Goldeneye. I think Goldeneye set the bar so high that anything after that was hit or miss.

-Connery is my second favorite Bond, I really enjoy the campy nature of the 60s-70s era feeling the movies brought, I think it’s sort of a perfect mix of campy, but also serious spy stuff that makes the films mostly work.

-I haven’t seen any of the Dalton movies, but I’ve heard they’re really good.

-Daniel Craig’s only good movie was Casino Royale and it’s the only movie of all of his I really enjoy, IMO, anything past that movie never happened because we all know where that went. I don’t want to sperg out about why I hate the direction they went in but if you know, you know.

I’d sit down any day to watch any of the movies, but I just pretend anything past Casino Royale doesn’t exist.
 
It can be hard to evaluate Bond actors because if the movie is crap, it's not necessarily the actors fault.

I love the world, atmosphere, and style of the Connery films. Goldfinger and Thunderball are my favorite in that era but they have some flaws. I like Connery but I feel that the other elements that make of the films (music, girls, vilians) build more of the style.

Moore is more part of his films and as much as it might pain me, he is the better Bond. It doesn't lose the fun and Moore's Bond is still the most interest thing about the films.

I like Brosnan but he wasn't given great scripts. I agree with everyone that has said Golden Eye is peak Brosnan, but I blame the Broccoli family more than the actors.

The Broccili daughter, I have mixed feelings about. She isn't a bad as a Kathleen Kennedy and Amy Pascal who pilot their crusades on woman power, Briccili seems to agreed of appealing to the female demo but it's hard to tell who exactly is leading this agenda. Bond is a male oriented franchise and some women like that as it is. Barbara Broccoli probably gets that but I think she is caving to studio pressures.
 
Man with the Golden Gun, Live and Let Die and Moonraker are among some of my favorites.
Not a huge fan of Moonraker but I love Man with the Golden Gun and Live and Let Die. The latter sets such a fantastic stage for the introduction of Moore and really nails what's to come.
I haven’t seen any of the Dalton movies, but I’ve heard they’re really good.
The Living Daylights is pretty good but I don't remember License to Kill that well. I think it was one of those where not a whole lot happens but I could be wrong.
The Broccili daughter, I have mixed feelings about. She isn't a bad as a Kathleen Kennedy and Amy Pascal who pilot their crusades on woman power, Briccili seems to agreed of appealing to the female demo but it's hard to tell who exactly is leading this agenda. Bond is a male oriented franchise and some women like that as it is. Barbara Broccoli probably gets that but I think she is caving to studio pressures.
She came into the picture with Goldeneye, right? There's tons of shots that ogle Brosnan, especially in Tomorrow Never Dies and Die Another Day. The whole NK torture sequence at the beginning of DAD just exists to serve the ladies some eye candy. It's funny because I think they tried to do that with Daniel Craig too but realized he's more of a lump.
 
I think there should only be one more reboot of the series; 7 solid films that portray a period piece James Bond and then they can finally stop. It makes the most sense and would finalize the franchise enough to coast on residuals forever.

I think part of the issue is the original premise is outdated. I don't mean spy capers, or fun action movies, or Bond himself. But to get good stand-alone Bond movies (or novels), you have to accept that government spy agencies are a Good Thing, that their spies are the Good Guys, and that there are clear external threats who are Bad Guys that must be stopped.

Ian Fleming was writing sincere spy novels; he worked in British naval intelligence during WW2, and Bond is a amalgamation of the spies and commandoes he knew. ("Goldeneye" was the name of an operation he ran to keep an anti-Nazi intel network going in Span.) Eon Productions/Albert Broccoli treated Bond's existence and mission matter-of-factly for decades. Sure, traitors and double-agents were included, but that was part of the reality of WW2 and Cold War espionage.

Now, for the last 10-20 years at least, modern movie makers simply can not start with the assumption that a government spy agency is the Good Guy. They have to fill it with corrupt nationalists, evil capitalists, outmoded conservatives, or all of the above. The deconstruction I mentioned above is a symptom, and it's a real problem for a franchise that is designed to deliver entertainment with an unshakeable justification for Bond's actions as part of the setting.

On top of that, they can't accept an unrepentant, macho, straightforward source of violence. Fleming said "I wanted him to be a blunt instrument", who found himself in tricky situations that required naked violence to get out of. But in Casino Royale, M literally calls Bond a blunt instrument as an insult to put him in his place before dismissing him.

You can see that as the start of a trend, where the Craig films move away from straightforward violence as a useful tool, to decry it as an inferior solution that leaves too many problems behind. That reflects post-9/11 reality, where state-sponsored violence failed to achieve what it wanted for the last 2 decades. But it also cuts into the heart of the Bond franchise itself. They're still violent, but the films rely more on spectacle, and the violence is lampshaded as futile, excessive, or unnecessary. They can still deliver entertaining scenes, but it can feel hollow.

I don't know that we have a culture which can accept a proper Bond any more. We certainly lack creative institutions that believe in it as anything more than a cash cow to keep milking.
 
Lemme get it started, Pierce Brosnan wasn’t bad as James Bond. Like he was really good.
Brosnan had all the physical tools and charisma to be the perfect Bond, unfortunately his tenure was marred by an over-correction from the Dalton days and MGM thinking we really wanted updated versions of the Moore films instead of the peak Connery films.
His post-Bond acting tenure has only made that more clear. He could have been playing the role well as late as 2020.
 
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