US US Politics General - Discussion of President Biden and other politicians

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Skeletonized Cow said:
Even if we were still using steel and iron, and other metals for all domestic industries, we still couldn't pull a WW2 style economic switchover. Not to powerlevel too hard, but steel and iron isn't really used for the totality of material anymore; specialty metals like titanium or tungsten, and specialty materials like some of this bullshit alloy I've worked with made of five different rare metals or ceramics are impossible to work with using conventional metalworking tools. You can't make a rocket part that uses a silver-tungsten alloy with the same die press you would use for a toy car. Specialization, while being beneficial in some areas, does have the drawback that we can't do a WW2 style switch even if we get our domestic industry revived at some point in the future.
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Irons and steels make guns and tanks. the thing the Ukraine war has shown is that basic mass produced weaponry exceeds exotic alloy wunderwaffles in a cost-to-benefit ratio
 
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Skeletonized Cow said:
Problem is, even if they rolled back everything to Industry's halcyon days of the 1970s and 1980s, we're still fucked. According to the DoD report in the other thread, our industrial workforce has shed 36% of its population since 1979. But that's general industry, which includes many things not directly related to a war economy. Actual "Defense Industrial Base" jobs are down 63%! We're expecting 1/3rd the population to produce weaponry and material on a scale not seen since WW2
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Yeah, it's a systemic problem.
Not only do the regs need to be repealed, they need to be done via constitutional amendment to convince investors they won't come back.
After that, yeah, it's 15 years at best before recovery is well underway.
 
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Betonhaus said:
Irons and steels make guns and tanks. the thing the Ukraine war has shown is that basic mass produced weaponry exceeds exotic alloy wunderwaffles in a cost-to-benefit ratio
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I won't disagree with you on the wunderwaffen problem, but we aren't using steel as much anymore though. The armor of most American tanks is made up of some specialty metal alloys and ceramic plates. According to the little I've been able to find, metals such as titanium and tungsten are used depending on the specific armor, which means that making it is going to be a serious pain. As for guns, well, according to this source, the steel used in military AR-15s is a specialty type that is harder to work with than normal steel.

Now, in a hypothetical total war scenario, abandoning some of this specialty isn't impossible. But it would seemingly disrupt the effectiveness of even basic weaponry, possibly quite seriously.

dustbuster said:
Yeah, it's a systemic problem.
Not only do the regs need to be repealed, they need to be done via constitutional amendment to convince investors they won't come back.
After that, yeah, it's 15 years at best before recovery is well underway.
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Not to be too much of a pessimistic faggot, but I unironically think that 15 years is too little of a time to change, at least from personal experience. Assuming I work in a "normal" industrial environment, the loss of tribal knowledge is an accelerating problem, one which really can't be fixed. The time to address it was decades ago, it's too late now and now we just have to rough it out and rebuild.
 
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George Lucas said:
The cope machine has started.
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The mental gymnastics on Trump walking away with this is glorious. CNN's batch of pundits in particular are almost speechless because not only is Trump +50%, but he's running the board with every major demographic category, including suburbanites and college educated. Doesn't help either when little Meatball looks poised to eke out a second place victory that shuts down any further Nimrata astroturfing.

It's not a good night for neocons and Never Trumpers when Iowa looks like this:
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Skeletonized Cow said:
I unironically think that 15 years is too little of a time to change
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When Hamilton imposed import tariffs, the USA was a bunch of farmer fields with one gunpowder plant.
Within 20 years The US was reaching peer level with Europe.

Scale Smerch said:
CNN's batch of pundits in particular are almost speechless because not only is Trump +50%,
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The poll showing nearly the ENTIRE gop knows what's up with the elections since 2020 was chef's kiss.
 
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The Ugly One said:
We have a single source of black powder, a critical starter in artillery propellant. The assembly lines to make Javelins at scale are gone. And if somebody actually sinks an aircraft carrier, a replacement simply isn't going to happen.
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My response was going to be “Weren’t we trying to fix any of this during Trump’s presidency?” Then I remembered that the game was rigged from the start, followed by the tearing up of everything Trump ever did, just in case.

Skeletonized Cow said:
Lolwut? You can't just reopen a factory and magically expect it to be in production. This isn't HOI4, you can't just switch to wartime economy and magically have a mighty industry. None of the factories shut down since our industrial height were mothballed and kept up properly, they were left to rot. You would need to replace machinery, ensure the buildings are in good enough shape to be usable and safe, repair what is falling apart. Most of these machines aren't made anymore either, at least not anywhere the West can get them, so we would need to make the machines to make the stuff we need. Which means we need machines to make the machines, and so on.

Even expanding what we have to a still insufficient level for just one resource (artillery shells) is estimated to take a further three to five years assuming the planned schedule is kept. This is well known, public knowledge and has been discussed thoroughly earlier. As someone who literally works in a MIC-adjacent plant that makes cluster bombs and other similar shit, the sheer amount of rot and trouble I've personally seen is staggering.
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The piece of legislation is part of the necessary process to kick everything out of the way. It would take just one bill to make it happen, that’s the way things work. Sure looking for a magic bullet and all that, but that’s where we are.

The “two months” is me assuming that we are working like madmen, in multiple locations, to get things started up again. I am not assuming a magical poof will occur. I am assuming that if the rot was kicked out and replaced with someone fully aware of how bad things are, it would take 60-70 round the clock days to get things to where we can begin production of the bare basics of what we need at the very least.

I know me saying this ”American bravado style!” *explosions and Bald Eagles ensue* lends itself to rainbow stickers, but I’m trying to not wall of text this stuff.

The Hardest R said:
Some people believe that we can just convert a Bad Dragon dildo factory into a manufacturer of war materiel because they did it in World War II but what is considered acceptable eighty years ago is nowhere near sufficient now. Nobody wants to listen to that because Team America, fuck yeah! These people have little or no clue what goes into manufacturing in general these days, let alone what is considered a bare minimum for war against a major country, which Russia definitely is. We wiped out a big chunk of material due to The Retard War in Ukraine.

Any fantasies about wiping out Russia in 48 hours are the exact same fantasies of Ukraine being able to wipe out Russia in 48 hours a couple years ago and we saw how those predictions came to pass. I hear Putler is going to abdicate any day now!
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For point #1: More like refurbishment of older sites. I know it would be a bumpy road in terms of getting things done. I also know that we are our own worst enemy when it comes to actually doing stuff, which I see as the bigger problem. It just takes less time to set up a place on a pre-existing foundation than it does to build a new one. Knock some of the rust off of the Rust Belt and all that.

For point #2: I would like to make it clear that I never said anything about Russia being a quick affair. Dealing with the nuclear threat alone would take months of planning at minimum, and the execution would have to be perfect. Then you have layers of conventional defenses you have to cut through to make the anti-nuke plan work…etc. Russia is a mess to engage, to assume otherwise is foolish.
 
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tehpope said:
In modern times, they're not meant to win wars. They're meant to keep them going to line the pockets of the MIC CEOs and shareholders in the various MIC companies.
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I think you might have a point.

The Russian miliary and hohols are using the AK-74M, not the AK-74U.

Meanwhile the M16A4 has been swapped out in favor of the M4A1, which is similar to the AK-74U since both are amputees of the original rifle.

Which is just a cut down barrel and seems like to be not a good move in the long run, and that is before we get to that new retarded Sig Sauer gun.

Make the M16 great again. The era of battle rifles is not over and its not even that heavy. It seems more like the American man has been losing testosterones, scientifically proven, which is why the rifle seems heavy.
 
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Gee, maybe the Meatballs will listen to people when they say there was fraud in 2020 and 2022, and not pretend it's "bad candidates" like T-Bone and Lake.

And here's the truth, this is Trump winning with the probably 5-10% of rigging done against him because I doubt the authenticity of some of these votes. Even with the democrats voting for Nimrod.

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Eggplant Wizard said:
My response was going to be “Weren’t we trying to fix any of this during Trump’s presidency?” Then I remembered that the game was rigged from the start, followed by the tearing up of everything Trump ever did, just in case.
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A larger reason is simply that there were bigger problems to deal with. Domestic turmoil overshadows a theoretical military need. There is only so much Capital, both Cash and Political, that can be used at once and trump was focused on stabilizing the domestic situation.
 
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Breadbassket said:
It's funny to watch the DeSantis camp react to how badly things are going. I would think for the five people publicly supporting Haley the situation is similar.

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I may not be a big fan of Trump but fuck I find it funny that they keep fucking up in underestimating him and the popularity he has with people especially after 4 years of Biden. Burn it all down is all I have to say.
 
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