Naruto/Boruto Griefing Thread

[ShitLurker]

Not sure I'd agree there. It was still very good up till the Pain arc ended, which was around chapter 450

Hard agree to disagree. It spiralled hard after the timeskip (chuunin exam was Naruto's highest high as far as I'm concerned) and only part I really remember fondly is Sasori vs his grandma. The rest of the series alternated between a perpetual state of ass with some sparks of hype here and there (yes, resurrecting everyone was retarded, but Madara vs Gai was peak). It wasn't as bad as Bleach or fucking Fairy Tail, but it certainñy wasn't much better for most of it's run.

Also,the big 3 were the big 3 even though 2 of them were shit for a very long time with a wretched ending due to when they came out. They were the first anime from a currently serialized property that really broke into the west. Release Naruto or Bleach 5 years earlier or later and they definitely would have not had the same impact since a lot of their popularity came from "right place right time".

 

[Ensok]

Filler is just an unfortunate consequence of being the most popular anime in the world. The manga is a far better experience, especially the war arc.

What really annoys me about the war arc filler is that it could have been so much better. Because at that point the manga had ended and they didn't need to put out so much filler anyways, but even then they could've used the filler to actually expand on a lot of the fights and some more of the Edo Tensei zombies. Which to be fair some of the filler did do, but later we started to get the horrible flashback filler arcs and the long Infinite Tsukuyomi filler that interrupted big fights and even started to meld into canon episodes and completely ruined the pacing of the war. While the early war filler episodes weren't exactly "good" it was at least the correct way to do filler.

 

[Stanley Ipkiss]

Hard agree to disagree. It spiralled hard after the timeskip (chuunin exam was Naruto's highest high as far as I'm concerned) and only part I really remember fondly is Sasori vs his grandma. The rest of the series alternated between a perpetual state of ass with some sparks of hype here and there (yes, resurrecting everyone was retarded, but Madara vs Gai was peak). It wasn't as bad as Bleach or fucking Fairy Tail, but it certainñy wasn't much better for most of it's run.

Also,the big 3 were the big 3 even though 2 of them were shit for a very long time with a wretched ending due to when they came out. They were the first anime from a currently serialized property that really broke into the west. Release Naruto or Bleach 5 years earlier or later and they definitely would have not had the same impact since a lot of their popularity came from "right place right time".

Definitely agree to disagree yeah. Early Shippuuden was obviously not as good as peak Naruto (as with pretty much every series), but it was still pretty good. Anything post-Pain absolutely deserves to be called ass though I agree there.

"Right place right time" can be applied to a lot of things and we can shift any popular series around to a time where it wouldn't be as popular. It means nothing. It doesn't change the fact that Naruto emerged as one of the best among it's contemporaries, stayed there for over a decade and continues to print money long after it's concluded.

What really annoys me about the war arc filler is that it could have been so much better. Because at that point the manga had ended and they didn't need to put out so much filler anyways, but even then they could've used the filler to actually expand on a lot of the fights and some more of the Edo Tensei zombies. Which to be fair some of the filler did do, but later we started to get the horrible flashback filler arcs and the long Infinite Tsukuyomi filler that interrupted big fights and even started to meld into canon episodes and completely ruined the pacing of the war. While the early war filler episodes weren't exactly "good" it was at least the correct way to do filler.

It seems like the fillers, especially the war arc ones, really soured the anime experience for many. I completely skipped it since I'd already read the manga to the end. I remember wondering why the anime was still ongoing 3 years after the manga finished. Just checked and the war arc is about half the entire anime run of Shippuudden. That's a Fuckton of filler episodes.
I'm not saying anyone should ignore the filler or anything, but we've seen numerous anime adaptations, even when they're trying to be faithful, completely bastardize the original manga and make it seem much worse than it is, and I believe that's what Post-Pain Shippuuden has done.

 

[Party Hat Wurmple]

Is there really much griefing to be had over Naruto? It ended pretty poorly, but I don't remember it causing the level of shit flinging that say, GOT or AOT caused. Plus it's been over for like a decade. Boruto is as close to Naruto as Disenchanted is to the Simpsons.

I mostly came here from hate-reading Boruto's post time skip "Two Blue Vortex's" and....holy fuck is it bad man. I've read a lot of manga in my time, but Two Blue Vortex's is one of the worst things I think I've ever read out of Shounen Jump. I guess Kishimoto might be very involved in this, because I don't see how this got out of editor's basic Quality Control otherwise. The Boruto manga itself isn't great but it never really crossed into "bad comic" territory like TBV has. You go on YouTube though and search reviews though and I swear to God, either Toei or Shounen is mass flagging negative reviews or that fanbase is unironically nothing but retarded niggers.

I've also read Kishimoto's post-Naruto work, Samurai 8. If you never read it, it's pretty terrible. I don't know, this recent bad streak from Kishimoto made me look back at Naruto without my nostalgia glasses on. As a result, I really just don't think Naruto was as good as we all remembered it.

 

[God of Nothing]

I mostly came here from hate-reading Boruto's post time skip "Two Blue Vortex's" and....holy fuck is it bad man. I've read a lot of manga in my time, but Two Blue Vortex's is one of the worst things I think I've ever read out of Shounen Jump. I guess Kishimoto might be very involved in this, because I don't see how this got out of editor's basic Quality Control otherwise. The Boruto manga itself isn't great but it never really crossed into "bad comic" territory like TBV has. You go on YouTube though and search reviews though and I swear to God, either Toei or Shounen is mass flagging negative reviews or that fanbase is unironically nothing but retarded niggers.

I've also read Kishimoto's post-Naruto work, Samurai 8. If you never read it, it's pretty terrible. I don't know, this recent bad streak from Kishimoto made me look back at Naruto without my nostalgia glasses on. As a result, I really just don't think Naruto was as good as we all remembered it.

I read on the /a/ threads it was so bad that it unironically killed the Boruto threads in general. Fucking hilarious. I think Kishi's just tired at this point. It happens. You see it with damn near every author or mangaka. After a certain point, they stop caring and want to move on to other things. Except those other things aren't guaranteed to be good or successful.

 

[Ensok]

Honestly, I don't think Naruto is even bad until after the Hidan & Kakuzu arc. Sure there are arcs better and worse than others before that, but I don't think the series is outright bad at all until that point. After that is where Sasuke starts getting a ton of focus and his mary-sue and plot armor tendencies go critical, along with Itachi also being the mary-sue to end all mary-sues. That's also where the Sharingan goes from being a powerful ability, and the Mangekyo being rare with drawbacks, to being completely broken and new and adsurd powers with it just keep popping up. Also where "Madara Uchiha" is revealed to be Akatsuki's true leader and Uchiha, Uchiha, Uchiha, shit taking over the manga.

But even then at the same time that's going on there's also Jiraiya vs Pain, one of the best moments in the manga, and the introduction of Pain/Nagato to begin with, who's the best villain of the series. And shortly afterwards another great character in Killer Bee is introduced, the world building starts to really open up, and the best arc of the manga with Pain's Invasion happens. The ending to that is obviously controversial and that's all I'll say.

After the Pain Invasion I think is when things go more downhill for a variety of reasons but there are always still some good moments and characters to balance things out. In the War too there's always two good things for every one bad thing. Madara is just purely entertaining and even Kaguya and her fight has several great moments in it to balance the bad. And then it all ends with a very satisfying conclusion that few other shonen or manga in general can even dream of. Following Naruto's story from the start to where it, and he, ends is amazing.

Boruto though is a whole other can of worms that I got into in a previous post.

 

[ShitLurker]

I've also read Kishimoto's post-Naruto work, Samurai 8. If you never read it, it's pretty terrible

Read the first few and it failed to engage me, then to my surprise like 20 chapters later, it was done. Must have been a huge stinker if Kishimoto on the title didn't get it a grace period.

 

[Kosher Dill]

I would have liked to see "Naruto" follow the original explanation for the Akatsuki where they were disaffected veterans and criminals who couldn't adapt to peacetime, trying to create a magical nuke to keep the world in a perpetual state of ninja war. Like, lean into the whole aspect of it being a newly postwar setting and Naruto being someone who makes friends and builds bridges. That should have been his real superpower, not being the reincarnation of Kaguya's grandson or whatever.

 

[HodgePodgeRogerDodger]

I mostly came here from hate-reading Boruto's post time skip "Two Blue Vortex's" and....holy fuck is it bad man. I've read a lot of manga in my time, but Two Blue Vortex's is one of the worst things I think I've ever read out of Shounen Jump. I guess Kishimoto might be very involved in this, because I don't see how this got out of editor's basic Quality Control otherwise. The Boruto manga itself isn't great but it never really crossed into "bad comic" territory like TBV has. You go on YouTube though and search reviews though and I swear to God, either Toei or Shounen is mass flagging negative reviews or that fanbase is unironically nothing but retarded niggers.

I've also read Kishimoto's post-Naruto work, Samurai 8. If you never read it, it's pretty terrible. I don't know, this recent bad streak from Kishimoto made me look back at Naruto without my nostalgia glasses on. As a result, I really just don't think Naruto was as good as we all remembered it.

Naruto’s lows are bad, but the highs are pretty good. It’s nothing offensively bad, just stupid. Madara for most of the war is hilarious, I just wish his gay plan would’ve ended more comedically instead of Kaguya.

“What will you do about the 2nd one, Old man” is hilarious. The issue was when Madara literally had Hashiramas face on his chest and you’re supposed to take Madara’s motivation as peace rather than seething.

 

[TheHarbinger]

But even then at the same time that's going on there's also Jiraiya vs Pain, one of the best moments in the manga, and the introduction of Pain/Nagato to begin with, who's the best villain of the series.

Jiraiya going alone into enemy territory against Akatsuki level ninjas was stupid writing. People like Itachi and Orochimaru were not the leaders of that group. Shouldn't he have been cautious about fighting their members if they are strong enough to order people like that around? He should have had tons of backup after his last encounter with Akatsuki. "Oh yeah....let's meet the guy who bosses people like Itachi around like it's nothing....completely alone". What could possibly go wrong?

And then it all ends with a very satisfying conclusion that few other shonen or manga in general can even dream of. Following Naruto's story from the start to where it, and he, ends is amazing.

Amazing? It's entirely contradictory and ridiculous. With power level escalation on a level that almost no stories can match. They go from using throwing knives to tossing planet sized energy jutsus in the span of a decade. The first half is about overcoming your bad childhood and growing into a leader through hard work. The second half is about Naruto's destiny as the reincarnation of god. And how bloodline limits and special eyes are infinitely better than any amount of hard work.

Practically every battle in the first half is about outsmarting your opponent and outworking them. Battles like Naruto versus Neji ending with these long drawn out diatribes about how anyone can overcome through fortitude and no one's destiny is written in stone. Zabuza having Haku fake his death so he could better prepare to face Kakashi again without being overwhelmed. Sasuke having to learn Chidori to beat through Gaara's sand and so on. Fast forward to the second half and guys are summoning ten-thousand dead ninjas to fight for them, hurling moon sized plasma balls, and commanding elder gods and absorbing mountain sized ki blasts with their faces.

Also the ending is pure fan service. Practically everyone survives. Overly saccharine and safe. Practically everyone is redeemed so that more t-shirts can be sold to more teenagers and dweebs.

 

[Party Hat Wurmple]

Boruto Chapter 6 has come out. Autistic rant below. I'm just breaking it down scene by scene. Not much happens in these chapters anyway.

In an attempt to salvage Shikamaru's diminishing character, Ikemoto confirms in the first scene that Shikamaru has never officially been confirmed as the Hokage. He later confirms this and everyone calls him Lord Eighth simply out of convenience. I don't buy it, Ikemoto. You meant to make him the 8th Hokage and probably realized he's been nothing but a giant cocksucker the past 5 chapters and are retconning this decision to fix it. Fine, it's not an egregious retcon but it's a retcon nonetheless.

Shikamaru meets with Ino to discuss... something. He asks for her help with something unknown at the time. They have a mind conversation with Private Protection on. Later in the chapter we find out this was to help him get in touch with Boruto. Boy, ain't it lucky Boruto just HAPPENED to come back to the Hidden Leaf? He didn't have to. He came to stop Code and warn them about the Divine Trees. But what would Shikamaru do if Boruto never came back? In fact, he has no idea Boruto is even there. He's just gambling that he is.

Eida discusses the Trees with Kawaki. She basically summarizes the last chapters to him. Daemon pointing out the plot hole that if Claw Grimes keep attacking looking for Naruto, people will figure out Naruto is still alive is hilarious. Eida for some reason still loves Kawaki despite openly saying she was done with him before...Whatever. Kawaki storms off. Ikemoto gives Daemon a new design in this scene with an oversized hoodie. His face looks weird and fat in it. More bad art. Speaking of bad art...

Boruto meets with Sarada and Sumire. Not much to talk about here. It's fine. He summarizes what we know about the Divine Tree. Sarada finds out about Sasuke getting tree'd and has NO reaction whatsoever. I mean, your dad is a tree, and you're not even giving a sad face. Art-wise, Ikemoto TRIES to do Boruto's full outfit to shut up the haters and it's terrible. Seriously Ikemoto, just give him a simpler outfit....

Final scene, Mitsuki attacks Boruto. Mitsuki meets Kawaki outside of Eida's and Kawaki senses Boruto. Mitsuki fucking knocks out Kawaki with a snake??? LOL and heads off to attack Boruto. That's hilarious how pathetic our leading antagonist is. Remember folks, this is the man who will end the ninja world....Lying there helpless and unconscious. What's also funny is that later on the chapter Mitsuki hides a snake on Boruto, and he finds instantly. What's your excuse Kawaki? Why does Ikemoto make his bad guys so pathetic?

Now, for months, people have asserted Shikamaru knows about the swap between Boruto and Kawaki and has some kind of grand master plan. There are even YouTube videos titled "Shikamaru's Grand Master Plan". Well, hilariously, we get confirmation that there is no grand master plan. Shikamaru reaches out to Boruto and warns him of Mitsuki's attack. As he runs off, he confirms, THERE IS NO PLAN. He found out and figured out the swap in the previous chapter. He's helping Boruto now only on a whim and wants confirmation from Boruto of what's going on. (Gee Mr. Genius, was the last 4 letters of Boruto's name what tipped you off?) Boruto flies off and him and Mitsuki start to fight. The end.

Make no mistake, the fanbase is going to loudly proclaim how Shikamaru "KNEW ALL ALONG" even though he explicitly says he only realized it last chapter. I swear the fans read a completely different fucking manga.

 

[Grub]

I watched naruto back in the day up until the filler before shippuden started and read some of the shippuden manga. It felt like one of those shows that started off good but just kept getting worse as it went on. It felt like the show stopped being about ninjas and turned into a show about super powered wizard kids.

 

[Party Hat Wurmple]

I watched naruto back in the day up until the filler before shippuden started and read some of the shippuden manga. It felt like one of those shows that started off good but just kept getting worse as it went on. It felt like the show stopped being about ninjas and turned into a show about super powered wizard kids.

Well now it's about K-Pop knock offs pretending they're in Golden Kamui or some other High School gang show throwing around lightning and stuff. So.....you got off at the right time.

 

[TheHarbinger]

I watched naruto back in the day up until the filler before shippuden started and read some of the shippuden manga. It felt like one of those shows that started off good but just kept getting worse as it went on. It felt like the show stopped being about ninjas and turned into a show about super powered wizard kids.

The original Naruto story was about wizards and was clearly "Japanese Harry Potter". The publisher forced the change to ninjas to make it sell better to the Japanese market. But you can still see all of the influences on the story from Harry Potter.

 

[Grub]

The original Naruto story was about wizards and was clearly "Japanese Harry Potter". The publisher forced the change to ninjas to make it sell better to the Japanese market. But you can still see all of the influences on the story from Harry Potter.

Well the publisher was clearly correct because the ninja stuff was better than the wizard shit.

 

[Party Hat Wurmple]

Well the publisher was clearly correct because the ninja stuff was better than the wizard shit.

All Naruto needs at this point is a scar to be Harry Potter.

 

[HodgePodgeRogerDodger]

The original Naruto story was about wizards and was clearly "Japanese Harry Potter". The publisher forced the change to ninjas to make it sell better to the Japanese market. But you can still see all of the influences on the story from Harry Potter.

Well the publisher was clearly correct because the ninja stuff was better than the wizard shit.

It wasn’t Japanese Harry Potter. It was somehow more niche. It was literally about the child of a Kaiju that literally used magic to turn human and the Hokage were a mix of anthropomorphic animals and humans.

It was basically DBZ, but Goku is overtly alien from the getgo and about making friends. The more refined edit after that was Kakashi being the master traveling with his sole student Naruto, who still has secret demonic power in him. Sasuke was supposed to be a recurring enemy and Hinata a foreign princess who Naruto charms at some point. The editor then said “Why don’t you just put Naruto and Sasuke as bickering friends/ rivals under a master who’s overextending himself?”

Seriously though that editor was basically giving him gold. The issue was that Kishimoto basically was told to extend the series and lost that Editor before he could finish writing Shippuden.

The one thing I’d actually like other than a prequel is a series of what was promised with Kakashi traveling around these weird semi-modern feudal Japan settings getting odd wetwork jobs to survive.

 

[Grub]

with Kakashi traveling around these weird semi-modern feudal Japan settings getting odd wetwork jobs to survive.

That actually sounds like it would be pretty awesome.

 

[Party Hat Wurmple]

It was basically DBZ, but Goku is overtly alien from the getgo and about making friends. The more refined edit after that was Kakashi being the master traveling with his sole student Naruto, who still has secret demonic power in him. Sasuke was supposed to be a recurring enemy and Hinata a foreign princess who Naruto charms at some point. The editor then said “Why don’t you just put Naruto and Sasuke as bickering friends/ rivals under a master who’s overextending himself?”

Ironically what you're describing is almost exactly what Samurai 8 was, verbatim. There was a foreign designed princess our protagonist who had to protect whom he was literally bonded to by the power system. We DID have an animal anthropomorphic master travelling around with his student that still contained x forbidden/demonic power inside him. You want to know what's funny about all this though?

It fucking sucked. Seriously, I'm beginning to wonder now as to whether or not Kishimoto was one of those one hit wonders who only got by because of his team. Perhaps Naruto was just lightning in a bottle and Kishimoto did most of the art while being under heavy monitoring and editing. It would explain why as Naruto grew in popularity and Kishimoto got more creative control that it began to flop so hard.

I don't know how many of you know the story around Sakura and the effort Kishimoto went through to try to connect readers with her. Apparently he read dozens of books on how to write teenage girls to make her more appealing but he just couldn't get the audience to connect with her. It makes sense though that maybe Kishimoto is just bad at writing and needed support of experienced editors to bonk him on the head and say "No. That's a dumb idea". I mean, it'd explain some of the insanity we see in Boruto...

 

[UCT]

Kishimoto is just bad at writing and needed support of experienced editors to bonk him on the head and say "No. That's a dumb idea". I mean, it'd explain some of the insanity we see in Boruto...

Honestly I’m in the camp that Kishimoto just isn’t a very good writer and got lucky with a good editor. I mean who the fuck takes a story like Naruto and goes in the direction of fucking aliens and shit like that. Kishimoto could’ve just given Naruto a “Super Duper Ultimate Mega Instant Kill” jutsu out of thin air and I’d feel more satisfied by how the story ended than, “lul aliens bro and your kids gonna get alien herpes”. Don’t get me started on the massive amounts of wasted world building he threw away. Everyone I knew when Naruto was still ongoing were hyped to see what the Samurai and the Land of Iron were going to bring…… Man fuck you Kishimoto you gay ass nigga.