Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[Ghostse]

according to the Ukrainian Air Force, English Royal Air Force and French Air Force only the SU-24Ms have been modified to carry and launch Storm Shadow and Scalp cruise missiles.

They can launch but the launch isn't fully supported. They aren't dumb firing, so some integration is needed - you can't just strap the missiles to a Gulfstream then light the engines - but the missiles aren't using the host plane's systems for initial guidance (or use it in a degraded mode). Not all the bells and whistles are turned on because the on-board avionics aren't up to snuff and can't pass all the data to the missile that it is expecting, or at least not in manner, timeliness, or format it can use.

For HARMs specificially, this means they launch in (effectively) only terminal guidance mode without the aid of GPS target fix to keep things on track if the RADAR it was locked to shuts off. This is a big determent now that Russians aren't just leaving their RADAR on 24/7, and why its been down to drones to make the kills.

In the case of Storm Shadows, this means the targets need to be pre-programmed on the ground and launches need to happen from a pre-planned area/altitude/airspeed so the missile has a general starting point for its initial position fix since it can't get that from the aircraft.
The lack of GPS targeting data to pass to weapons probably matters less for these cruise missiles because they are advanced enough to recalculate their positions in flight and Russian GPS-jamming at most high-value targets (ie Crimea Bridge), so they are probably operating on inertial guidance anyway for terminal approach. Or as in the Kilo/Ropucha strike getting targeting data from the ground.

tl;dr there is a reason they aren't getting Air-launched radar guided missiles (HARM asside, but that's using the target's radar to lock on)

 

[NSJAP]

Recent death of a Russian Drone Ace called Moisey (Moses) by a Ukrainian drone pilot called Balu that was confirmed by Moisey's wife. Moisey was apparently responsible for sinking between 31-50 Ukrainian boats and killing almost 500 Ukrainian soldiers.

https://nitter.net/wartranslated/status/1748313839441949108

Marines of Sevastopol bemoan that the mast production of drones has seen a massive drop in quality and now two identical drones can have significant differences in ability making them untrusted by their operators.

There is also the issue of centralisation, where the Russian military industrial complex will sit down, authorise a design and that design alone will be produced for the next few years. But as the man points out, due to the rapid evolution in drone technology and employment, what works now won't work in a few months time, especially when it comes to fighting EW. There is also a lack of competition in the Russian domestic industry, which means the chances of any innovations coming from home, instead of having to be bodged together by individuals at the front, is very slim.

All of this paints a picture of thousands of drones being produced that won't be able to fly over the front lines without immediately being jammed by EW that hasn't had to change it's settings in months.

https://nitter.net/wartranslated/status/1747964527319081459

 

[Fuck It We'll Do It Live]

sinking between 31-50 Ukrainian boats

They actually had that many to begin with? Even if they were just river boats.

 

[Techpriest Mk II]

They actually had that many to begin with? Even if they were just river boats.

It’s a made up number to start with. His kill count somehow went up from 400 to 500 in like an hour after his death.

 

[Fuck It We'll Do It Live]

Russian TOR air defense system fires at a Warmate loitering drone, misses and gets hit by it instead:

 

[Ghostse]

Moisey was apparently responsible for sinking between 31-50 Ukrainian boats and killing almost 500 Ukrainian soldiers.

Our brave an noble drone operator was responsible for moistening via miss UTTERLY DESTROYING SUCH THE BODIES COULDN'T BE ID'd 500,000,000 Ukrainians and Polish mercenaries, many of them in M-4 Abrams tanks. He sunk 18,4028 boats of the Ukrainian navy including 3 of their Iowa Battleships donated by NATO. His drones also captured 70,000 of the 50 bradley vehicles, most will be sent as trophies to various bases but some of these horrible worthless vehicles are being sent to front line units becasue its such a terrible vehicle.

It’s a made up number to start with. His kill count somehow went up from 400 to 500 in like an hour after his death.

Well the Ukrainian drone operator who killed him is responsible to 40,000 to 50,000 Russian deaths just that day as well as sinking the Moscova (a second time) and sinking two more BSF Kilos.
And you know those 1500 T-14's a month russia was planning to crank out? turns out they have been producing them, but Balu has been killing each and every one as soon as it is crewed up, which is why there are no examples of the best tank in the world engaging in tank combat.

Russian TOR air defense system fires at a Warmate loitering drone, misses and gets hit by it instead:
View attachment 5650583

Goddamn. I was about to say "Oh it's just a launcher" but nope, drone gets the Radar vehicle.

 

[Corette]

Recent death of a Russian Drone Ace called Moisey (Moses) by a Ukrainian drone pilot called Balu that was confirmed by Moisey's wife. Moisey was apparently responsible for sinking between 31-50 Ukrainian boats and killing almost 500 Ukrainian soldiers.

https://nitter.net/wartranslated/status/1748313839441949108

View attachment 5650127View attachment 5650128



Marines of Sevastopol bemoan that the mast production of drones has seen a massive drop in quality and now two identical drones can have significant differences in ability making them untrusted by their operators.

There is also the issue of centralisation, where the Russian military industrial complex will sit down, authorise a design and that design alone will be produced for the next few years. But as the man points out, due to the rapid evolution in drone technology and employment, what works now won't work in a few months time, especially when it comes to fighting EW. There is also a lack of competition in the Russian domestic industry, which means the chances of any innovations coming from home, instead of having to be bodged together by individuals at the front, is very slim.

All of this paints a picture of thousands of drones being produced that won't be able to fly over the front lines without immediately being jammed by EW that hasn't had to change it's settings in months.

https://nitter.net/wartranslated/status/1747964527319081459

View attachment 5650133View attachment 5650132

There really are some interesting parallels between this war's drone ops and development of aviation during the 1st World War.

 

[Ghostse]

There really are some interesting parallels between this war's drone ops and development of aviation during the 1st World War.

Who can forget WWI aces like or James Ira "Taffy" Jones, Francis "Razors" Gillet, Edward Corringham "Mick" Mannock, Rene "Ace-of-Aces" Fonck, and Baron Manfred "Niggerstomper58" von Richthofen.

 

[Pocket Dragoon]

Who can forget WWI aces like or James Ira "Taffy" Jones, Francis "Razors" Gillet, Edward Corringham "Mick" Mannock, Rene "Ace-of-Aces" Fonck, and Baron Manfred "Niggerstomper58" von Richthofen.

Mannock was probably my favorite maniac of that time period, but I idolized Nungesser & wanted to go out like Voss. Fonck was the prototypical asshole pylote & Richthofen had it on easy mode (for a while)....

I can't wait for the books that will be written by the guys flying now, but I expect they're not going to be anything like those of WW1. I can see it now....

"So there I was with the sun to my back & rotors humming but unheard; my Mavic loaded with VOGs stuffed into dildos of consequences, hovering over a group of freezing huddled mobiks. I carefully made my drops and they were rapidly disassembled, adding to the rotting piles already scattered everywhere; we did this all day every day....."

Certainly not a very poetic way to wage war.

 

[Corette]

Possible Ukrainian drone strike on Russian oil terminal near-ish St. Petersburgh.
https://liveuamap.com/en/2024/21-january-technological-processes-of-novatekustluga-terminal
archive

 

[Glowie]

There really are some interesting parallels between this war's drone ops and development of aviation during the 1st World War.

During first world war Russia lacked appropriate bi-plane air force and anything modern for that matter. Britain and France had air forces, all the while Russia relied on meat wave attacks and trench warfare. Ironically enough Russia had to join allies after kaiser started kicking ass left and right.

 

[Corette]

During first world war Russia lacked appropriate bi-plane air force and anything modern for that matter. Britain and France had air forces, all the while Russia relied on meat wave attacks and trench warfare. Ironically enough Russia had to join allies after kaiser started kicking ass left and right.

Akshually Russians pioneered heavier than air strategic bombers with formation of Sikorsky Ilya Muromets -squadron as far back as December 1914.
And they had largest pre-war air force.

Not that either factor could overcome sheer incompetence of Nicholas II.

 

[Glowie]

Now for something completely different, results of Motti tactics from Winter War to draw parallels from, destroyed equipment, frozen bodies of meat wave Mobiks, captured convoys and more. Russia hasn't changed a bit

Corpses were piled up to 4 meters, Igors were stacked like logs. Imagine aftermath of Adviidka and Bakhmut fronts

 

[BallsOfaKiwi]

Akshually Russians pioneered heavier than air strategic bombers with formation of Sikorsky Ilya Muromets -squadron as far back as December 1914.
And they had largest pre-war air force.

Not that either factor could overcome sheer incompetence of Nicholas II.

The more you know...


seriously I also thought they had a shitty airforce.
How come you dont hear about Russian ace pilots though?

Cause you hear about Soviet Ace Pilots despite Stalins colossal incompetence in not being able to discern what is real intelligence and what is not and thus not trusting his own spies and generals that an attack was imminent, leading to the destruction of 3/4ths of the airforce on the ground.

 

[Corette]

Now for something completely different, results of Motti tactics from Winter War to draw parallels from, destroyed equipment, frozen bodies of meat wave Mobiks, captured convoys and more. Russia hasn't changed a bit
View attachment 5653639View attachment 5653636View attachment 5653638View attachment 5653637
Corpses were piled up to 4 meters, Igors were stacked like logs. Imagine aftermath of Adviidka and Bakhmut fronts

If pictures are from battles of Raate-road or Suomussalmi, then the dead are mostly Ukrainians.

 

[Techpriest Mk II]

During first world war Russia lacked appropriate bi-plane air force and anything modern for that matter. Britain and France had air forces, all the while Russia relied on meat wave attacks and trench warfare. Ironically enough Russia had to join allies after kaiser started kicking ass left and right.

The Russians actually were one of the early adopters of aircraft for military use. They just never really caught up with the other powers in the militarized dedicated combat craft arena until the Soviet era. For all the shit people give the current Russian Air Force, the Soviet’s aviation program and structure were incredibly complicated and designed to best support efforts on the ground. Someone I know who wrote a thesis on Soviet aviation strategy made a point early on in this combat that the Russians were completely ignoring the Soviet doctrine early on in Ukraine.

Soviet aviation doctrine was much like Soviet army operational doctrine in that it viewed units as expendable assets that a commander shouldn’t hesitate to sacrifice if it brought overall success. Soviet strategies were to secure complete dominance not over the whole front in terms of aviation but as needed in sections. If the ground forces in an area are breaking through you scramble as much aviation as you can in support at a tempo that’s unsustainable long term but will turn that area into a nightmare zone for the enemy for several days. Other squadrons and wings are fire brigades to slow down enemy counterattacks. All of this is coordinated from the ground and with the army,

It is an effective system on paper and NATO air supremacy was not ensured in the vital first few days of any presumed conflict up until the mid 80’s as even though the F-15 was an insane fighter the Soviets couldn’t match performance wise, the sheer concentration and initial operating tempo of Soviet aircraft would make the skies over Central Europe into a place where hundreds of aircraft would be lost on both sides. It’s part of the reason the Soviets also invested so heavily in AA systems - the air force they had couldn’t be everywhere by doctrine but ground forces still needed defenses.

 

[Glowie]

If pictures are from battles Raate-road or Suomussalmi, then the dead are mostly Ukrainians.

Further north, near Murmansk actually, current home of Russia's submarines and nuclear weapons then Murmansk was just like any other oblas and front for the suicidal horde. There are fronts that don't hold any historical significance or interest. soviets sent meat waves ordering them to yell to give illusion of superior numbers. In this case they were greeted by anti aircraft guns lined horizontally
To say the least gunner suffered from severe press when red army horde were turned into little giblets. 20 mm is meant to to the to tear metal.

 

[Corette]

Further north, near Murmansk actually, current home of Russia's submarines and nuclear weapons then Murmansk was just like any other oblas and front for the suicidal horde. There are fronts that don't hold any historical significance or interest. soviets sent meat waves ordering them to yell to give illusion of superior numbers. In this case they were greeted by anti aircraft guns lined horizontally
To say the least gunner suffered from severe press when red army horde were turned into little giblets. 20 mm is meant to to the to tear metal.

Nah.
Way too many trees on pictures to be from Lapland.
Besides neither battle of Salla or Petsamo had Soviet troops surrounded the way which is known as ´motti`.

 

[Foltest]

If pictures are from battles of Raate-road or Suomussalmi, then the dead are mostly Ukrainians.

I know we are going off topic, but I always found it baffling that Stalin and his goons did not use people that were used to the condition.
Yes, Ukraine get cold in the winter, but winter in Finland is on a whole another level.

 

[Corette]

I know we are going off topic, but I always found it baffling that Stalin and his goons did not use people that were used to the condition.
Yes, Ukraine get cold in the winter, but winter in Finland is on a whole another level.

That's assuming that Stalin cared at all.
Those troops weren't there to fight, they were meant to march to inevitable victory with attached marching band and banderols.

Besides -39 winter was especially harsh.