Russian Special Military Operation in the Ukraine - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[Strix454]

I'm trying to pinpoint the exact moment that America ceased to be a world power.

September 3, 2016. The Chinese humiliate Obama and the white house staff during his arrival at the airport for the G-20 summit. The arrival process turns into a mutual screaming match on the airport tarmac involving senior aids to Obama.

Then a day or two later, President Duarte of the Phillipines at the same event calls Obama in public "the son of a whore".

Their response was to do nothing and pretend that nothing had happened. It was also downplayed in the US media. I personally saw it as a historical transition.

 

[Overly Serious]

I'm not sure what this means, is it like more attacks on civilians using drones and other means? Wouldn't that open up a response from Russia that's even further into Hohol territory?

Always keep in mind that America's goal is not to help Ukraine but to harm Russia. Civillian deaths, bombing markets, etc. is a useless way to win a war but it's very effective at prolonging a conflict. They don't want a peace negotiated on Russia's terms. If they can't win, then a drawn out quagmire of terrorism and unrest that they can fund (and they will) can at least ensure both sides lose.

Nuland et al. have openly stated they want to break apart Russia. Unrest and terrorism gives them (they believe) a wedge they can push on and funnel weapons, terrorism and NGO efforts in to build up ethnic divisions in Russia and so forth.

 

[Rubick]

This usually has the opposite effect. It tends to increase support for the war. My sense is that a lot of people in Russia don't think about the war that much and have vaguely positive views on it. Killing a lot of Russian Civilians would make all those people that don't care suddenly care a lot.

There is already a regard that the Russian forces due to insistence of the current leadership acted to soft handed in Ukraine. Which they did. And the current leadership let NATO get away with shit they shouldn't have. Which they also did in my opinion.


So, no. This will just cause more anger and more blood thirst in Russians And more question and anger towards Putin and Co.

And this will hamper and destabilize Russia to some degree.


So, i see why the Americans are forcing Ukrainians to go this route. Not that there are any other options besides to sue for peace....



What the blowback will be will depend on Russia's capability, assets and balls to do clandestine operations abroad or fund other actors to do so.

September 3, 2016. The Chinese humiliate Obama and the white house staff during his arrival at the airport for the G-20 summit. The arrival process turns into a mutual screaming match on the airport tarmac involving senior aids to Obama.

Then a day or two later, President Duarte of the Phillipines at the same event calls Obama in public "the son of a whore".

Their response was to do nothing and pretend that nothing had happened. It was also downplayed in the US media. I personally saw it as a historical transition.

Wasn't that also followed by Hillary bursting into a discreet meeting between India, China and Russia officials.

 

[Doctor Love]

Their response was to do nothing and pretend that nothing had happened. It was also downplayed in the US media. I personally saw it as a historical transition.

I really hope that I am right - that Zaluzhny told Zelensky and Biden to fuck off.

In a really brazen, public way - like a national address or some shit, an announcement where he says as much. The more direct, the better. I want to see a world figure call Joe Biden a fag openly.

What the blowback will be will depend on Russia's capability, assets and balls to do clandestine operations abroad or fund other actors to do so.

Honestly, if America plays dirty, Russia has the advantage.

The one running theme I've noticed in every engagement with Americans is that they're just... not fighters. They straight-up are not. You could easily sink their commercial ships and they would do nothing. There are some, who are decent about it and tend to hold it both ways - they won't fuck with you, you won't fuck with them.

But of those who fuck with you - just watch what they say. It's even in this thread, as soon as European wars come up, or any time they are asked to do anything, it's "That's not our problem, we didn't do it, we're not going to do anything" - the exact same people who call the Ukrainians "Hohol scum" protest the idea of their own responsibility.

And thus, you have a complete open field. They will not cooperate.

Seriously, you have precedent - you can sink American ships and no matter what, they will only attack you later - when you're weak. The Lusitania sank in 1915, and they waited until 1917 to actually use it to declare war on Germany.

I'm surprised the Russians take them seriously - I don't know how much you guys are aware of this, but they've never actually had any fight in their fucking lives and have run away from every single enemy who could actually hurt them. Every single fucking time.

America would have to be suicidal to try to push for a clandestine operation abroad. They are not the guys who you don't "fuck with" - they're the guys who shit themselves and run away at every fight.

 

[oh no its pipkun]

Look at the cost of the Lada Niva "Legend",

it's less than $10k because it's a metal box that'll crush you when you get in a car accident.

Russia came out with a nuclear cruise missile

it had it's first successful test run last year which means nothing since since the ruskies can't even field the t-14 armatas yet.

the issue with nuclear-powered anythings is the radiation that leaks when there's an accident or manufacturing defect. That russian nuke-powered cruise missile had a few radiation accidents that killed various engineers and researchers. A stationary power plant is one thing, a plane would be a nuclear missile in an accident; recent reports say boeing can't even build the plane correctly the first time through.

 

[Doctor Love]

That russian nuke-powered cruise missile had a few radiation accidents that killed various engineers and researchers

Yeah, the leaking radiation is the problem in the gigantic multi-warhead weapon roaming the fucking planet.

There's no "little problem" - this is the mindset that I dislike about the engineering side of it. It's like going onto an oil rig and thinking that it needs more solar panels. "Why would you power it with oil? It's bad for the environment!"

The entire concept of a nuclear weapon is that it inherently has a gigantic risk attached. Nuclear weapons are built around that, they have killed hundreds of thousands in their use, and tens of thousands in their development. There's no reason for them to exist.

It's so weird to me that there's apparently a safety line for a nuclear bomb. "Our death missiles are the safest in the world"

 

[Betonhaus]

That's the plan basically. The idea is to leverage the death of civilians as an incentive to end the war. It is kind of like the idea of allied strategic bombing in WW2 breaking the morale of the enemy. (sidenote: in the modern day when people say strategic bombing they mean nuclear weapons). The Chechens tried a similar strategy and ended up losing.

This usually has the opposite effect. It tends to increase support for the war. My sense is that a lot of people in Russia don't think about the war that much and have vaguely positive views on it. Killing a lot of Russian Civilians would make all those people that don't care suddenly care a lot.

1. I suspect that Russia sees this coming a mile away if that guy takes charge
2. They would still have difficulty getting missiles and such into Russia without them being shot down or captured
3. If they do this, and actually succeed in mass loss of life (or a clear barely stopped attempt) then Russia will retaliate, but with much more surgical strikes on administration, weapons, and transport locations.

 

[oh no its pipkun]

Yeah, the leaking radiation is the problem in the gigantic multi-warhead weapon roaming the fucking planet.

There's no "little problem" - this is the mindset that I dislike about the engineering side of it. It's like going onto an oil rig and thinking that it needs more solar panels. "Why would you power it with oil? It's bad for the environment!"

The entire concept of a nuclear weapon is that it inherently has a gigantic risk attached. Nuclear weapons are built around that, they have killed hundreds of thousands in their use, and tens of thousands in their development. There's no reason for them to exist.

It's so weird to me that there's apparently a safety line for a nuclear bomb. "Our death missiles are the safest in the world"

you're retarded if you think nuke powered planes crisscrossing the country and missiles stationed in remote silos and subs in the ocean have the same risks. What does a nuke powered plane do if there's a power plant failure on the tarmac? what about in the air? give the idea more than a few seconds of thought.

 

[Falcos_Commisar]

Im getting flashbacks to Syria.
View attachment 5680842

The journalist who wrote this is super retarded. Ukraine is not mass producing any useful drones. They are buying them or getting them as part of aid. Those that are being build are more like RC kamikaze gliders, they might harass the Russians at best and certainly will not change the tide of the war.
They mention repurposing some sidewinder missiles they got as an old hand-me-down from US aid as a poor mans air defense. Thats reverse engineering something, not creating it from scratch as they suggest. Its pure cope, this is a weapons cottage industry not a serious mass-production factory thats needed to make a dent in the Russians operation.

The Franken-SAMs are actually being refurbished in the USA and it's 17 older KUB/BUK systems getting setup to fire SeaSparrows.


The other ones are AIM-9Ms getting integrated into the Osa and the last is the I-HAWK getting some upgrades to work with Soviet era radars or similar.


In other news, the world has seen the first warship getting sunk on video by a small boat swarm.

The Russian Tarantul class Corvette "Ivanovets" was allegedly swarmed by 10 or more suicide drones and was sunk on video.

https://t.me/ICATriplex/7760

https://t.me/razvedosaa/8500

https://t.me/fighter_bomber/15583

And the video

https://t.me/ClashReport/18980

 

[Doctor Love]

you're retarded if you think nuke powered planes crisscrossing the country and missiles stationed in remote silos and subs in the ocean have the same risks. What does a nuke powered plane do if there's a power plant failure on the tarmac?

Did you know that when you have radiation poisoning and are fucking sterilised by radiation, you can still get someone pregnant?

The foetus barely forms, and can actually kill a woman if it turns septic.

That actually happened to one of my relatives! Having seen the results of nuclear damage up close, I'm going to have to clarify:

They're all fucking dangerous. If you have nukes, you should be aware of the risk. Having "safe nuclear weapons" in "remote areas" is fucking retarded.
To simulate what the men who have to operate that go through, crack open and then swallow the contents of a battery. That may simulate the feeling of radiation sickness closely enough for you to comprehend what kind of shit you're actually saying.

Either nukes are okay, or they are not okay. I like nuclear power - not weapons. Don't act like it is somehow better to have a nuclear weapon which doesn't leak. It's like saying "oh no, my rape kit is dirty!" - it's a weapon. An extremely lethal weapon designed to kill and poison as many people as possible.

There's no "nice" way about it. Nuke powered nukes are the only nukes which make sense. IF we have nuclear weapons, there is absolutely nothing different between that and a nuclear plane.

 

[Strix454]

Budanov has started giving interviews as if he is running the army. He is promising Ukraine will launch a new counteroffensive in the spring. He claims that Russia's offensive potential will be completely exhausted by then. He is also planning major attacks on what he calls the "economic infrastructure" of Russia as a whole.

The Ukrainians against expectations have supposedly now launched new landing operations across the Dneiper in the Krynky area. The Kyrnky operations have been very unpopular within the Ukrainian Army due to the difficulty of the fighting. The fighting had been rather static for a long while. The expansion of operations across the river and expansion of them in the middle of winter would suggest another change in military policy of some sort.

He is also asking for A-10 aircraft from the US. I can't comprehend why they would want or deploy A-10s into the conflict. They are completely unsuitable to the conflict especially given that Ukraine does not have anything close to air superiority and the front lines are full of anti-aircraft systems.

The only reason for deploying the A-10 to Ukraine would be for the USAF to accelerate getting rid of them.

 

[Feline Supremacist]

September 3, 2016

September 11, 2001-the chickens come home to roost (Malcolm X was right, just off by sixty years). The beginning of the end. The US is attacked, on its own soil, by the very people it had used as proxies to degrade and deplete the USSR, leading to its collapse and subsequent break up.

Spoiler: The larger political context

To recap: a group comprised of almost entirely of Saudis, aided by mostly royal Saudis and other Gulf Arabs use passenger planes to kamikaze two iconic towers in NYC, the Pentagon but failed to hit the White House, as the remaining plane crashed (or was shot down) into a field in Pennsylvania. Does the US put the Sauds and other Gulf states in their place?

Absolutely not!

The neocons embark on a twenty year campaign in Afghanistan and finish toppling Saddam Hussein in Iraq (while occasionally meddling in various countries like Yemen and Syria) and political elites use the MIC to enrich themselves and their friends, as the US crumbles and deteriorates. Shady Wall Street deals, methamphetamine, heroin/fentanyl and a shift to China for manufacturing continue unabated. When Trump is elected (to their chagrin) and tries to reverse this decline they lose their shit and double down, using black criminals and meth addled whites larping as commies, as well a mild flu like virus to lock the nation down and elect their puppet, an infamous corrupt pedo with dementia. This decline is further aided by a policy of letting in illegal migrants from nearly every shit hole in the world, unvetted, through our southern border. It is after all this that a fat menopausal, neocon cunt in the US State Department who had led the coup in the Ukraine to install our puppet Poroshenko in 2014 greenlights the planned reconquista of Crimea, knowing full well this is Russia's red line, as Crimea is historically Russian, but more important it's Russia's only warm water port on the Black Sea. Russia already knew the planned offensive was going to commence in the spring of 2022 so it preemptively launches a "special military operation" on February 24, 2022, throwing Nuland's State Department/White House into chaos as well as the NATO. Does the US rethink its strategy regarding the Ukraine?

Absolutely not!

As soon as Russian tanks surround Kiev and the current puppet in charge Zelenky is on the verge of negotiating a solution with Russia, the US orders its Br*t*sh lackey Boris Johnson to put the fear of death into Zelensky and compels him to double down. Russia, thinking this was Georgia, Part Deux, was caught off guard and suffers large losses, but quickly regroups and begins the long slog of Total Hohol Death, destroying much of NATOs (and the US) much vaunted Wunderwaffen in the process, as well as depleting their armories. The US, to everyone's confusion, while all this is going on, decides to antagonize China, its manufacturing base, over Taiwan, leading to Russia and China growing closer and becoming allies. As the West has bought into a midwit neocons's claim that the end of the USSR was the end of history, it is now facing the prospect of mobilizing their citizens as the Ukraine's military is depleted (I maintain that 500,000 is rather optimistic as the Ukrainians themselves estimate nearly a million hohol soldiers have died).

They say revenge is a dish best served cold, and Russia can be very cold. History has returned.

As an American I have long passed the five stages of grief; nothing lasts forever. I understand that my life will not go as anticipated but look to the Texas Border Standoff as a new beginning.

 

[IKOL]

Oy vey, we've all missed the PAGE EIGHT-EIGHT-EYYYYYGHT!!! happening. Shame on you, Petersburg Troll Farms employees!

 

[PrimeRadiant]

He is also asking for A-10 aircraft from the US. I can't comprehend why they would want or deploy A-10s into the conflict. They are completely unsuitable to the conflict especially given that Ukraine does not have anything close to air superiority and the front lines are full of anti-aircraft systems.

The only reason for deploying the A-10 to Ukraine would be for the USAF to accelerate getting rid of them.

As much as it pains me, because people are going to die needlessly..but i soooo want them to use those a-10s against an actual power with actual air defence just to shut up the fucking a-10 fanboys with thier "brrrrrrrt" shit when they all get blasted out of the sky.

 

[Doctor Love]

As much as it pains me, because people are going to die needlessly..but i soooo want them to use those a-10s against an actual power with actual air defence just to shut up the fucking a-10 fanboys with thier "brrrrrrrt" shit when they all get blasted out of the sky.

As opposed to all of those planes which do not get blasted out of the sky?

All planes get shot down, the A-10 just looks better when it does.

 

[The Ugly One]

The Russian Tarantul class Corvette "Ivanovets" was allegedly swarmed by 10 or more suicide drones and was sunk on video.

Drones seem to be a much bigger problem for conventional navies than for tanks.

 

[Rubick]

Those vehicles only exist in small numbers. Around 20 total and only a handful deployed in Ukraine. The Russians brought them out on a few occasions, but the vehicles ended up attracting all kinds of attention. The Ukrainians went all out after them when they appeared. They would try to dogpile them with all the drones available or call in heavy fire on them. The name and the press associated with the vehicles made them a really attractive propaganda target.

My take is that it was good at what it was designed for. Fighting in urban environments against a lightly armed opponent. And it might be good for urban combat in Ukraine if there were large numbers of them. But with small numbers and the attention they attract, it isn't a good place even for testing them.

Soviets already had the BMPT concept. In the 70's. The thought for it was for infantry/tank infantry support in the field and especially for combat support in contaminated areas. As dismounted infantry survivability and effectiveness in areas contaminated by nuclear and chemical weapons was rather poor.

In the 80's it got the role tacked on for coin operations as Afghan.

See Object 781 and Object 782.



in the 90's it was for urban operations.


The problem BMPT is that it's a niche. Which is nice when you got cash to spare ..not much otherwise.

Another problem is while previous BMPT had a multi-engagement capability. While it was nice to have ability to engage at least 4 different targets simultaneously, and have multiple pair of eyes searching for the threats. And what made BMPT what it was.

That came at a high crew count.


The current BMPT the BMPT-72 "Terminator 2" however lacks multi-engagement capability compared to it's predecessors. So everyone along with the guys on the ground asked. "what the hell is this thing again for!?"

I'm sure we'll see another terminator on Armata chassis. Now again with multi-engagement capability. This time though with less crew count as this issue can be solved now.

Drones seem to be a much bigger problem for conventional navies than for tanks.

Maybe, how many vessels have they sunk now with drones and how many such attempts and drones have they used.

 

[Meh123]

One would hope Orbán isn't keeping all that money to himself. Even spending half of that on infrastructure would be huge.

lol. LMAO even.
Not even the infrastructure money gets spent on infrastructure (or if we count stadiums as "infrastructure"...)

 

[Cuckoman]

That's the plan basically. The idea is to leverage the death of civilians as an incentive to end the war. It is kind of like the idea of allied strategic bombing in WW2 breaking the morale of the enemy. (sidenote: in the modern day when people say strategic bombing they mean nuclear weapons). The Chechens tried a similar strategy and ended up losing.

Interesting plan. They think that killing russian civilians will make Putin back down and russia to come crawling, begging for peace?

Do they realize that Russian way to handle hostage situations is:
7 chechen rebels have taken 200+ civilian hostages in a movie cinema. Russian police just gas the entire cinema and everyone dies, hostages as well as chechens.

I am skeptical that their plan will work.

Anyway, if this is what it takes to keep the conflict going and the sanctions to remain long term then at least the de-industrialization of europe and germany will continue, so it would not be all bad.

 

[IamnottheNSA]

it's a metal box that'll crush you when you get in a car accident

Niva Legend basically is the answer to the question "what if Suzuki Jimny, but made and sold for a third of the price?", with everything that this entails.
Also that's Niva Travel on the video, not Niva Legend.

He is promising Ukraine will launch a new counteroffensive in the spring.

And here we go again. The first one was not enough?