Unpopular Opinions about Video Games

[The Ugly One]

I thought that was Oblivion, which built up the fanbase that eventually had a lot of fun with Skyrim. But Skyrim was a bit more improved in the gameplay front.

Personally, I did not think Oblivion was very fun. It was reasonably fun for a good chunk of it, though, right up until I started seeing through the dungeon design and noticing that every Ayleid(sp?) dungeon was one of four or five basic layouts with barriers in different places and nothing truly interesting to find, and that the wild animals in the forest just got bigger and more deadly every time I leveled up. However, it wasn't so painfully bad that I was unable to complete the main story. However, I was just gritting my teeth to sprint through the last few Oblivion portals, then sprint past the end boss. The only thing that truly pissed me off was discovering however many hours in that the arrows in the shops are capped at Dwarven, so eventually, the archer I happened to be playing as was incapable of killing anything swiftly.

 

[xXx: State of the Union]

Basically, Skyrim is the closest Bethesda game to hit that "it just works" point.

I don't have to worry about a broken leveling system like in Oblivion, I don't have to worry about dice roles (and cliff racers) like in Morrowind and Daggerfall.

You can, more than any other ES game, just pick up and play it and have at least a decent time without getting completely fucked over by the end game. Sure, you may have to deal with a broken quest or crash here and there but nothing that couldn't be fixed by loading to a previous save.

Elder Scrolls biggest problem has been that it's got all this cool shit that's just kind of marred by some really dumb/shitty/broken game design elements.

Every time someone tells me Skyrim sucks because it's "less of an RPG" (at least in the skills type area) I get confused, because the worst parts of Morrowind and Oblivion are the RPG elements.

Bethesda has *never* been good at making an RPG. They were much better at making worlds IMO.

 

[MembersSchoolPizza]

Okay, I'm just dropping the whole goddamned "released on modern consoles" tangent. I never made any point that was intended to go there, and I don't care to keep bloating the thread. It's an argument that I never made.

And what exactly is your argument here?

Simply that "people are buying it" isn't a good metric of quality. Nothing more.

I was wondering about that. Are they any good? Which one is better, Skywind, or Morroblivion?

Skywind is still unreleased. Morrowblivion was a bit clunky to set up last I checked, but it does exist. I would say Skywind would be the better product if it ever releases.

Honestly I would suggest OpenMW with Morrowind Rebirth, right now. Its a modern engine that's compatible with the original game and any mod that doesn't require a script extender.

That's not what I said. What I said was that Morrowind was a cult classic that had its own dedicated fans, but said fanbase isn't as big as the ones playing Skyrim. I used the words ''cult classic'' to describe it and even stated that Morrowind had its own fanbase, one that loudly denounced Skyrim and Oblivion. Were you not reading what I have stated?

It may not be what you meant, but it's how you sound, every time someone defends Morrowind. And if that's what you meant, well... great? I don't know why you're arguing with me though, I certainly never said there is some thirsting horde of frustrated Morrowind fans with videogame blueballs because we're not big enough to justify modern console ports or something. Because that would be a silly claim.

Patron is a very defining term. Usually, when a group has a patron, said individual is the one they report to, the one who funds them, the one who gives them the strength to carry on, and if worst comes to worst, the one that can pull the plug. And again, Skyrim depicted a world that was uncertain and unstable, so the Thieves Guild becoming more devoted to Nocturnal makes perfect sense, given that these weren't the days of the Septims anymore when things were stable and stealing from a few fat pockets is no big deal...........

Or, bear with me now, times change, and people become less or more devoted to a religion or cult as time goes on. That's more or less natural with how the world works, why can't Tamriel have that as well?

But none of that is "That's how it's always been", which was your initial claim. If you wanted to make the argument that the Skyrim thieves' guild being, well, thick as thieves with Nocturnal is a good change that fits the setting? Well, that's an argument to make. But it wasn't always the case and I don't think you can claim I should have known to expect what I got.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Basically, Skyrim is the closest Bethesda game to hit that "it just works" point.

I don't have to worry about a broken leveling system like in Oblivion, I don't have to worry about dice roles (and cliff racers) like in Morrowind and Daggerfall.

You can, more than any other ES game, just pick up and play it and have at least a decent time without getting completely fucked over by the end game. Sure, you may have to deal with a broken quest or crash here and there but nothing that couldn't be fixed by loading to a previous save.

Elder Scrolls biggest problem has been that it's got all this cool shit that's just kind of marred by some really dumb/shitty/broken game design elements.

Every time someone tells me Skyrim sucks because it's "less of an RPG" (at least in the skills type area) I get confused, because the worst parts of Morrowind and Oblivion are the RPG elements.

Bethesda has *never* been good at making an RPG. They were much better at making worlds IMO.

Which is why Skyrim is their best game. They just toss you into the world, and you can just play it and have fun. This casual approach to game design is what made Skyrim a runaway success at a time when casual games like Mass Effect 2 and Call of Duty were becoming huge hits. And the fact that venerated franchises like Zelda were taking note and copying Skyrim's formula meant that it's a good formula.

Personally, I did not think Oblivion was very fun. It was reasonably fun for a good chunk of it, though, right up until I started seeing through the dungeon design and noticing that every Ayleid(sp?) dungeon was one of four or five basic layouts with barriers in different places and nothing truly interesting to find, and that the wild animals in the forest just got bigger and more deadly every time I leveled up. However, it wasn't so painfully bad that I was unable to complete the main story. However, I was just gritting my teeth to sprint through the last few Oblivion portals, then sprint past the end boss. The only thing that truly pissed me off was discovering however many hours in that the arrows in the shops are capped at Dwarven, so eventually, the archer I happened to be playing as was incapable of killing anything swiftly.

Comparing Oblivion to Skyrim, I was beginning to see what would eventually become Skyrim slowly take shape in Oblivion. As in, ''they're almost there, but not there yet'' kind of thing. Eventually, I just grinded the shit out of my character in Oblivion, got through every guild quest, did every DLC, then proceeded with the main story. It felt very much like a classic fantasy with all those Daedra portals and crap, but hey, I liked that shit. I liked it even better when I got to play dragon hunter in the next game.

Simply that "people are buying it" isn't a good metric of quality. Nothing more.

I disagree. People tend to buy things repeatedly if they like it, and if they like it, there must be something good to it. Like say, a game that eschews janky mechanics for an easy ''pick-up-and-play'' routine filled with magic, dragons, and all sorts of fun fantasy shit that goes beyond some dweeb building a robot in a basement that never does anything.

Skywind is still unreleased. Morrowblivion was a bit clunky to set up last I checked, but it does exist. I would say Skywind would be the better product if it ever releases.

So I'll have to wait, I guess........

It may not be what you meant, but it's how you sound, every time someone defends Morrowind. And if that's what you meant, well... great? I don't know why you're arguing with me though, I certainly never said there is some thirsting horde of frustrated Morrowind fans with videogame blueballs because we're not big enough to justify modern console ports or something. Because that would be a silly claim.

I already stated that Morrowind has a loud fanbase, and said loud fanbase bitching about Skyrim is one focus of my ire. And again, if the Morrowind fans were that numerous, you'd think the suits would've done the same thing to them that they did to the Skyrim fans.

But none of that is "That's how it's always been", which was your initial claim. If you wanted to make the argument that the Skyrim thieves' guild being, well, thick as thieves with Nocturnal is a good change that fits the setting? Well, that's an argument to make. But it wasn't always the case and I should have known to expect what I got.

Then what the fuck is the point of them being related to Nocturnal in the first place? Why not just have a completely secular thieves' guild with no Daedric shit? Again, if Nocturnal is the patron goddess of this rabble, it makes more sense that they show some worship towards her.

 

[MembersSchoolPizza]

Then what the fuck is the point of them being related to Nocturnal in the first place? Why not just have a completely secular thieves' guild with no Daedric shit? Again, if Nocturnal is the patron goddess of this rabble, it makes more sense that they show some worship towards her.

Ehhh...

It's sort of like worship of the 9. A healer may invoke the name of Stendarr, a soldier may pray to Talos, those gods are sometimes said to be the patron gods of healers and soldiers, respectively, but they aren't priests or sworn servants of those gods. There is a priesthood, but it's not everyone who swears by them.

Thieves swore by Nocturnal, some of them anyway, but them actually being effectively a religious order not the norm.

 

[Boiled Pizza]

Morrowind wasn't very popular because the game that is actually on the disc is a broken piece of shit that is a tedious, sluggish, unfun mess of crap. Trudging through the fog, swinging ineptly at these green, reptilian bats that attack you every 38 seconds is not fun. Even most Morrowind fans agree that Morrowind, the actual game that Bethesda released, fucking sucks, they just argue that because Morrowind + Various Mods is good, and that makes Morrowind good.

And while that may be, the vast majority of the public does not play games with mods, or buy shitty games with cool high concept in the hopes that modders will make the game good. Skyrim is really the first Elder Scrolls game Bethesda released that is actually fun to play, front to back, as the game that Bethesda actually released. Finally, with Skyrim, Todd Howard said, "What if I just made the core mechanics actually work? Instead of dropping a fat shit on the disc? Instead of just expecting modders to make an actual finished product?" And holy shit, he couldn't stop selling the thing, it was that easy all along.

And then he never did it again.

I picked up Morrowind on PC after I played Oblivion on xbox and had a great time without mods. The cliffracers annoyed me, so I used enchanted gear to nuke them whenever they showed up to bother me. Once I learned that fatigue affects *everything* I started using alchemy until I could make a permanent Restore Fatigue amulet. The game has a lot of flaws from old classic RPGs that don't translate well over to video games, but I never found them too annoying to ruin the experience. I just adapted to it and found a solution.

Skyrim was cool for a few days, but I got so bored of the uninspired (and dumb) writing, draugr dungeons and flaccid gameplay that I just dropped it within the first week. Magic was boring since most of the utility spells were removed and you couldn't be creative with magic anymore. The removal of stats was also very disheartening when I first leveled up.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Ehhh...

It's sort of like worship of the 9. A healer may invoke the name of Stendarr, a soldier may pray to Talos, those gods are sometimes said to be the patron gods of healers and soldiers, respectively, but they aren't priests or sworn servants of those gods. There is a priesthood, but it's not everyone who swears by them.

Thieves swore by Nocturnal, some of them anyway, but them actually being effectively a religious order not the norm.

Those guys still believe in those gods, even if they aren't priests.

Every time I hear that someone just had a better time with Morrowind than Skyrim, I think they're one of two people: either they're the kind of guy who'd enjoy a pen-and-paper DnD game more than an action game, or they're being hipsters. In the case of the former, I feel that a pen and paper DnD is the far better option. I mean, it makes no sense that you're not given a choice with the Numidium. What if you agree with Dagoth and you need to free Morrowind from the Septims, or your Nerevarine is just the kind of nut who wants to see a city burn? In the case of the latter, all I can say is, I played both Skyrim and Morrowind; the latter I tried to like, but I just can't, even after playing it for several hours, and the former had me hooked within the first 30 minutes.

At least if I agreed with Alduin, all I'd need to do is cast Storm Call on every town and city and watch them all die with a smile.

 

[Boiled Pizza]

Those guys still believe in those gods, even if they aren't priests.

Every time I hear that someone just had a better time with Morrowind than Skyrim, I think they're one of two people: either they're the kind of guy who'd enjoy a pen-and-paper DnD game more than an action game, or they're being hipsters. In the case of the former, I feel that a pen and paper DnD is the far better option. I mean, it makes no sense that you're not given a choice with the Numidium. What if you agree with Dagoth and you need to free Morrowind from the Septims, or your Nerevarine is just the kind of nut who wants to see a city burn? In the case of the latter, all I can say is, I played both Skyrim and Morrowind; the latter I tried to like, but I just can't, even after playing it for several hours, and the former had me hooked within the first 30 minutes.

At least if I agreed with Alduin, all I'd need to do is cast Storm Call on every town and city and watch them all die.

Or maybe some people just enjoy a game that is more closer to classic RPG than a game that is closer to an open world action game than an actual RPG. Going by your posts here, you seem really upset with anyone who prefers anything else over Skyrim.

Todd, is that you?

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Or maybe some people just enjoy a game that is more closer to classic RPG than a game that is closer to an open world action game than an actual RPG. Going by your posts here, you seem really upset with anyone who prefers anything else over Skyrim.

Todd, is that you?

Exactly. And all classic RPGs are DnD clones. Hence why I said a pen and paper DnD game would be a great choice for them. You don't get any more classic RPG than the source.

Also, if you're going to go for a classic RPG, having party members is a must. Classes make your characters specialize in one particular skill or set of skills. But that means they'll have other skills they're deficient at, which is where party members come in. That's another reason I'm not so big on Morrowind, because it doesn't have a robust party member system like the Bioware or Final Fantasy games do.

 

[Boiled Pizza]

Exactly. And all classic RPGs are DnD clones. Hence why I said a pen and paper DnD game would be a great choice for them. You don't get any more classic RPG than the source.

I said "closer to". There are things between PnP and open world action games. You seem to struggle with nuance a lot.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

I said "closer to". There are things between PnP and open world action games. You seem to struggle with nuance a lot.

Not really. I've played DnD-style RPG games before; Morrowind doesn't get the best part of that system. And the combat is janky as fuck. It's like trying to hammer a square peg on a round hole. It's a system that works best with multiple characters working together with teamwork and strategy, and they tried to smash it into a game where you're a loner 90 percent of the time. Sure, someone can be amused and have fun with it, but it seems like the best time with it is figuring out how to break it, not play it as the creators designed it.

 

[el bandito loco]

Skyrim gets released constantly because both extremes of the spectrum of most annoying people can play it and get into it. autistic rpg faggots, and low IQ niggers. As someone who was a teenager when it came out I saw both play it extensively from incel nerds to drug dealing 'hood niggas'. It also had huge marketing.

I had a friend who loved Morrowind when it came out on original Xbox so I had played it once or twice, but Skyrim was the one I first sat down and actually played through and when I went back I liked Morrowind & particularly Oblivion better but I'm not big into the genre in general. they both just felt like I could do whatever I wanted more but really I can't take the whole series super seriously because it attracts the worst autism in people

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Skyrim gets released constantly because both extremes of the spectrum of most annoying people can play it and get into it. autistic rpg faggots, and low IQ niggers. As someone who was a teenager when it came out I saw both play it extensively from incel nerds to drug dealing 'hood niggas'. It also had huge marketing.

I had a friend who loved Morrowind when it came out on original Xbox so I had played it once or twice, but Skyrim was the one I first sat down and actually played through and when I went back I liked Morrowind & particularly Oblivion better but I'm not big into the genre in general. they both just felt like I could do whatever I wanted more but really I can't take the whole series super seriously because it attracts the worst autism in people

Skyrim is better off being classified as an adventure game, not an RPG game. Its detractors are correct in saying that it does not have the classic RPG feel. Ditto for Fallout 3 and 4. The RPG elements are a sideshow, the real meat of those games are the exploration, combat, and just the general spirit of adventuring across a landscape. Oblivion's class system was redundant; I tried to create a wizard who wound up becoming more of a knight.

DnD mechanics are better for games like Final Fantasy, or the Bioware games, ie. KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, games with party members who can specialize in certain things. DnD was made for cooperative play between characters with different skill sets, not a loner who becomes a demigod leveling up almost everything and making the class systems worthless.

That being said, Skyrim is a better game than Morrowind; its story actually reaches a conclusion that isn't premature, and the gameplay is more fluid and reactive.

 

[Georgio Cocklord]

GTA SA is the best GTA, its better than V even in gameplay, no Im not explaining

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

GTA SA is the best GTA, its better than V even in gameplay, no Im not explaining

San Andreas is the one that is favored most, is it not?

 

[TheHarbinger]

San Andreas is the one that is favored most, is it not?

Every year when sites like Gamefaqs or whatever do a poll GTA:SA is usually in first place. But every year GTA5 gets more popular. And GTA3 and VC lose more and more of the votes. Probably none of the new GTA fans play the older ones. Or if they did they played those awful remasters which lead to a poor impression. Rockstar is not exactly looking to preserve GTA's legacy. They just want more shark cards and microtransactions.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Every year when sites like Gamefaqs or whatever do a poll GTA:SA is usually in first place. But every year GTA5 gets more popular. And GTA3 and VC lose more and more of the votes. Probably none of the new GTA fans play the older ones. Or if they did they played those awful remasters which lead to a poor impression. Rockstar is not exactly looking to preserve GTA's legacy. They just want more shark cards and microtransactions.

Just like Microsoft and Rocksteady. It's really sad to see it.

 

[Georgio Cocklord]

San Andreas is the one that is favored most, is it not?

Among people born pre 2004 yes, mostly. Lot of newfags and oldfags alike are drifting towards 5 for some reason. I dont like V I think its physics is very jank, its too large in file size for the content offered, mechanically shit and too scripted among other things. SA has better gameplay as well personally, fog is universally better, the writing is better in a lot of places, the map is a lot more liminal space like (You can remember your way around the neighborhoods once youve played enough instead of using the map), theres a lot of extra mechanics cause SA was the most experimental GTA (stuff cut from later games off my head since Im replaying it now - taxi minigame, night robbery minigame, vigilante police scanner minigame, the hood wars mechanic, NPC categories, the RPG stats system, jetpack, custom radio station, plane traversal, train traversal, positive/negative responses). It also helps that the world design is fucking great with the deserts, chiliad, the different locales, towns and all the conspiracy theories/myths which people propagated back in the day.

 

[Mr. 0]

The remake lost the heart the original had:

 

[Raging Capybara]

If Xbox leaves the console industry like Sega, who would be the third party? Maybe Steam as an indirect competitor in the console market. Pick up where the OUYA failed with a prebuilt console with Windows/Steam OS akin to the Steam Deck. If Value focuses on exclusives again, they could really make a punch.

Why anyone would enter a dying industry?