Russian Special Military Operation in the Ukraine - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

Sir Joahim Browinson III said:
Did Puttin just assumed that Mutts are dumb and don't understand history so he started explaining the Russia in it's entierty?
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It's not a bad assumption to make. My history-major dad who learned Russian for the US military isn't entirely familiar with even the events in Ukraine of 2013-2022. It's pretty much guaranteed your average American doesn't know near enough to have any context for the narrative history Putin is trying to explain.
 
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Keystone said:
I mean he isn't wrong on that issue.
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He isn't. But I can well see how to anybody not already sympathetic or wanting this sort of lecture that it looks very much like he's ignoring the question which was, if I can remember this far back to when it was asked, about if and why Russia actually felt threatened by the USA.
 
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make_it_so said:
Do we know for certain exactly how many Ukrainian troops are still in the city?
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Three brigades and some other random units. The 110th brigade is defending the core of the city and the eastern front. 47th is defending the chemical plant and 53rd brigade to the south of the city.
The next natural defense line after the city center falls would be the chemical plant.
 
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Overly Serious said:
He isn't. But I can well see how to anybody not already sympathetic or wanting this sort of lecture that it looks very much like he's ignoring the question which was, if I can remember this far back to when it was asked, about if and why Russia actually felt threatened by the USA.
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The problem unfortunately is that the average person is or more accurately has, through education and media, been rendered a functional retard. The core issue is deeper than feeling actively threatened it's about posturing and backing up words with tangible action.

The Bucharest Declaration dated april 3rd 2008 states the following:
"NATO welcomes Ukraine’s and Georgia’s Euro-Atlantic aspirations for membership in NATO. We agreed today that these countries will become members of NATO. Both nations have made valuable contributions to Alliance operations. We welcome the democratic reforms in Ukraine and Georgia and look forward to free and fair parliamentary elections in Georgia in May. MAP is the next step for Ukraine and Georgia on their direct way to membership. Today we make clear that we support these countries’ applications for MAP. Therefore we will now begin a period of intensive engagement with both at a high political level to address the questions still outstanding pertaining to their MAP applications. We have asked Foreign Ministers to make a first assessment of progress at their December 2008 meeting. Foreign Ministers have the authority to decide on the MAP applications of Ukraine and Georgia."

To which Putin responded: No they won't.

Geopolitics in some aspects are not that different from any other relationship, if you draw a line in the sand and you let someone cross it without consequence you show yourself to be a spineless pussy. That's not great if you're working at some office but if you're the largest nation in the world with XXXXXXXL levels of desirable natural resources it's fatal. Putin was essentially left without a choice after Maidan, assert dominance as a global superpower ( or at least a dominant regional player to be taken seriously ) or get stepped on both by external forces and forces within Russia who would seek to take advantage of his displayed weakness in letting the West cross his line in the sand without consequence.
 
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Sir Joahim Browinson III said:
Did Puttin just assumed that Mutts are dumb and don't understand history so he started explaining the Russia in it's entierty?
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It is part of the view of international politics that Putin subscribes to. This kind of historical analysis would not be out of place in the 19th century. Putin basically subscribes to a 19th century viewpoint of international law. It also fits with Putin's very bureaucratic nature.

Quite Frankly I don't think the interview is very good. I blame Putin for this he gave too broad of a view and didn't focus on any specifics that would communicated information more clearly. He should have mentioned for example that the Nationalist/Nazi units were the ones that burned people alive and were essential to the Maiden coup.

Putin also has the problem of explaining things too much. He wants to communicate everything and so he says everything that is connected with the topic in his mind.

I know about this problem because I do it too. He should be more brief and give clear and striking examples like the Nazi units burning people alive.
 
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Napoleon III said:
I know about this problem because I do it too. He should be more brief and give clear and striking examples like the Nazi units burning people alive.
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His age is starting to show at this point. He used to be much more concise when he was younger, but now his mind is often running away so he starts rambling like... Well, like an old man that he is.
 
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Overly Serious said:
He isn't. But I can well see how to anybody not already sympathetic or wanting this sort of lecture that it looks very much like he's ignoring the question which was, if I can remember this far back to when it was asked, about if and why Russia actually felt threatened by the USA.
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This. While it is a fascinating history lesson, I fail to see as to how events from the period of 800 AD to 1600 AD are at all relevant to the current situation. The world has, um, kind of changed a lot since then.

Especially when Tucker's question was basically "did you think the US/NATO were going to attack Russia through Ukraine, yes or no?"
 
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make_it_so said:
This. While it is a fascinating history lesson, I fail to see as to how events from the period of 800 AD to 1600 AD are at all relevant to the current situation. The world has, um, kind of changed a lot since then.

Especially when Tucker's question was basically "did you think the US/NATO were going to attack Russia through Ukraine, yes or no?"
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It's not relevant to you because you were already aware that there was a different geographic reality before the post-1991 batch of maps were printed. Putin knew which audience he would be addressing with this interview, and clearly felt there was a need to clarify some matters of Russian history that are obvious to those in this thread (who at least in part don't overlap with Carlson's normal audience).

Russia and Ukraine have a common history because the idea of a separate Ukraine is thoroughly modern. To communicate this concept to a people who struggle to understand their own history, he held a brief class in Russian History. I agree it was necessary, even if the subject matter is very dry to a European. To a yank, I'm sure it's riveting to learn something new.
 
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