Russian Special Military Operation in the Ukraine - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[Romeo]

Quite Frankly I don't think the interview is very good.

This. While it is a fascinating history lesson, I fail to see as to how events from the period of 800 AD to 1600 AD are at all relevant to the current situation.

I've finally watch the first sixteen minutes of the interview and I had a lot of stuff to say about Putin's historical overview of Russia and Ukraine's relations. I have a understanding of what Putin is going for with him going far back into the medieval period of Russia but I generally disliked him ranting off-topic on Poland.

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Rationale for 800 AD to 1600 AD​

I believe that the whole point of Putin describing the events from 800 AD to 1600 AD is to describe that Ukrainians (and to some extent Belarusians) and the land they live on are of the same people as the Russians, as all three peoples were united under the Kievan Rus and the Novgorod Republic. Putin paints Poland have attempted to separate these peoples into different ethnicities and cultures so that they can easily be controlled.

This attempt failed because one of the most famous Ukrainian leaders and founder of the Ukrainian Defensive War Against the Russian Invasion Kiwi Farms thread Bohdan Khmelnitsky was a staunch Russian ally who put Ukraine under Russian control as he believed Ukraine is a part of Russia as Ukrainians and Russians are the same people. This segment was mostly good, as Putin puts forth that one of the reasons Russia is invading Ukraine is on a historical basis of reunification of Ukraine and Russia (similar to China and Taiwan).

However, Putin giving the archives to Tucker during the beginning of the interview was such a weird gesture, like I get it, giving evidence of a significant claim regarding Khmelnitsky, but it felt like Putin was in some way bribing Tucker.

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Putin politispergs on Poland​

His segment on Poland post-1700s was pretty bad, irrelevant, and very cherry-picked, and Putin felt the need to antagonize Poland because Poland is the loudest barking dog with no bite nowadays. Putin did not mention that Poland was split up between Prussia and the Russian Empire in the late 1700s and that Poles were living under German and Russian rule for most of the 1800s to early 1900s.

When Poland regained its statehood, Putin cherry-picked really hard to push the framing that the USSR was innocent and righteous before World War II. Putin mentioned treaties, but never mentioned that the USSR launched a failed invasion against Poland in 1919, which of course why Poland does not trust the Soviet Union in its diplomacy and threatened it will shoot down Soviet planes if they came near Poland in regards to the Czechoslovak Crisis.

Then, I rolled my eyes when Putin mentioned that the Poles were collaborating with Hitler and the Nazis while glossing over the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. Okay, fine, I can see how Poland and other European countries like the UK and France making appeasements to Germany so they won't get invaded or trying to prevent a war to be started can be considered collaboration, but you can't just mention that and give a one word mention of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact like that in which the Soviets collaborated with the Nazis and then by coincidence in 1939 invaded Poland the same time Hitler invaded the country. Like no shit, this is why Poles despise Russia.

Even so, the USSR did not back up Polish rebels in the Warsaw Uprising because they feared that the Polish rebels would go against the Soviet state so they let the Germans destroy the Uprising instead. And then there were reports of mass rapes of Polish women by Soviet soldiers as the Soviet Army expelled the Germans from Poland.

Putin pushing for the fact that Poles should be grateful that the Soviets gave them German land with cities like Stettin, Breslau, and Danzig, as well as liberation of Poland from the Germans while the Soviets were themselves in fault of why Poland is in German occupation in the first place was pretty tone-deaf and had a lack of understanding of why Poland hates Russia. Sure, I get it, Polish people are very annoying nowadays and can't back up their words in regards to defending Ukraine from Russia in their invasion, but they had clear reasons to dislike or distrust the Russian state for what they did back in 1919, 1939, and 1944.

The weird tangent on Poland was really irrelevant on the whole Russian-Ukraine conflict and I felt that Putin wanted to antagonize Poles with this interview. The fact Putin went off this tangent really harms Russia's stance the more you know of history; I kinda agree with @Fighting Type Pokemon that Putin's age is starting to show.

I think this is the instance where Tucker should have interrupted Putin to have him stay on topic. Like, who fucking cares about Poland in WW2 and the Interwar Period, it has nothing to fucking do with Ukraine. Yes, Western MSM journos have interrupted Putin rudely before, but an interruption here would have been justified.

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Just started watching Putin commenting on the Bolsheviks and their role in creating the modern Ukrainian state, but I had a lot to say in those two segments.

 

[Anasûrimbor Kellhus]

Honestly the US is likely the most historically illiterate country in the world. On sites like this, you'll run into a lot of Americans that know at least some history, but that's not the average normie American. Numerous studies have been done and have found that the vast majority of Americans can't even pass history tests that are required for US citizenship, so your average goat fucker with less than 30 minutes of studying has more knowledge of US history than your average native born mutt. https://nypost.com/2019/02/15/americans-dont-know-much-about-nations-history-survey/

Apu Explains the Civil War's Cause

The certainty the President recently expressed that Andrew Jackson could have prevented the Civil War confirms the suspicion that he lacks grounding in the h...

www.youtube.com

the simpsons nailed this a long time ago haha

 

[Skeletonized Cow]

All of the above may sound like a schizo rant and it pretty much is, but this is legit the kind of shit mutts are taught in the US school system.

As someone who went through the US schooling system after 1980, it wasn't quite that bad when I went through, but it is basically in terminal decline from what I have heard/seen.

That being said, I have heard some definitive whoppers from my former teachers even in college. The USA being responsible for Pearl Harbor because our President had the daring audacity to not cave to all Japanese demands while negotiating the end of the Russo-Japanese War. Or describing the Mexican-American War as "genocidal." And, of course, a lot of Lincoln and FDR simpery to the point that Lincoln's plan of "deport all the blacks" was called a "Lost Causer conspiracy theory."

 

[Betonhaus]

I think this is the instance where Tucker should have interrupted Putin to have him stay on topic. Like, who fucking cares about Poland in WW2 and the Interwar Period, it has nothing to fucking do with Ukraine. Yes, Western MSM journos have interrupted Putin rudely before, but an interruption here would have been justified

Maybe, but that might be one of those things that would come across as crossing the line. Tucker is already getting hate for interviewing Putin, if he was to start redirecting his rambling he might be accused of trying to make Putin look better then he does.

 

[SaidNoOneEver]

Maybe, but that might be one of those things that would come across as crossing the line. Tucker is already getting hate for interviewing Putin, if he was to start redirecting his rambling he might be accused of trying to make Putin look better then he does.

I think this is a consequence of promising to air the entire interview with no edits. Any other Western outlet would've cut all that and a lot more. The 2+ hours would've been whittled down to about 15-30 minutes. In his press conferences he often outlasts all the press until they run out of questions.

EDIT: that and Western attention spans have been fried by never-ending consumer content at our fingertips.

 

[Napoleon III]

I think this is the instance where Tucker should have interrupted Putin to have him stay on topic.

Putin asked Tucker a question he said "do you want a serious discussion or do you want a show?" Tucker probably thought Putin was asking for Tucker to respect him but Putin was being entirely straightforward. Tucker should have asked for a show.

The weird tangent on Poland was really irrelevant on the whole Russian-Ukraine conflict and I felt that Putin wanted to antagonize Poles with this interview.

I do not agree for three main reasons. The Poland-Lithuanian-commonwealth spent the most amount of time owning Ukrainian land out of basically anyone. The second reason is the tie back to Nazis, this is partially because the Nationalist Battalions are such an important part of the CIAs/State Department's method of controlling Ukraine, it is also partially because it is about highlighting how Poland and in general outside powers have attempted to use Ukraine as a wedge against Russia. I would have picked the Kaiser creating Ukraine instead but it serves that purpose.

The Final reason is how Russia sees the Great Patriotic war. We see the Nazi's as subversive group that destroyed a well functioning democracy and the same ideas could do the same thing today. Russia sees Hitler as the archetypical foreign invader. To them Hitler is just another Napoleon or Charles the 12th of Sweden. Let us not forget Napoleon used Poland exactly how the west is using Ukraine today.

USSR launched a failed invasion against Poland in 1919

But Poland did something else as well. They continued the war and tried to claim parts of Ukraine.

 

[Falcos_Commisar]

So are Mi gunships still being used? All I see from Russia footage are the ka-52 alligator

They're being used. The Ka-52 gets more press but the Mi-24/35, and the Mi-28 are all active use

 

[Gondolindrim]

Man, Putin is one intimidating guy. You can tell he's sitting on a treasure trove of shit and didn't want to lay out all his cards right there in that interview. I really do wish we got more about those wacky top secret labs and other projects going on in Ukraine. I'm certain his sources have figured out what's what by now.

 

[Random Internet Person]

TUCKER CARLSON INTERVIEWS RUSSIAN PRESIDENT PUTIN—GLOBALISTS THROW A TEMPER TANTRUM​

Cartoon published 02/08/2024

Tucker Carlson traveled to Moscow this week and will be releasing his exclusive interview with Russian President Putin soon. What Tucker is doing is real journalism.

The interview is rumored to be two hours long and touching on many different subjects, including Ukraine bio-labs. As soon as Tucker made the announcement of his interview with Putin, the internet exploded with cries of “traitor!” and “Putin puppet!”, which are par for the course. The only ones afraid of Tucker’s interview are the globalist media complex as their narrative of ‘Russian man bad; Zelensky saint’ will be destroyed. Funny how the mainstream media was okay with their ‘journalists’ interviewing President Putin


Tucker stated he wants people to make up their own minds without the pro-Ukraine censors or propagandist filtering and deciding what people can see.

“We are not here because we love Vladimir Putin….We are not encouraging you to agree with what Putin may say in this interview, but we are urging you to watch it. You should know as much as you can.” — Tucker Carlson.


The globalists and their media lapdogs do not want people to have information that is not controlled by them. People are not allowed to decide for themselves, oh no! They think that should be up to the mainstream media who spoon feeds their audience only the news that they deem acceptable.

The hype will build on the internet until Tucker’s Putin interview is released at 8pm ET on TuckerCarlson.com and then on his X platform @TuckerCarlson. Elon Musk has pledged that the Putin interview will not be censored or shadow banned on X. Until then, we will all have to wait to see what will be revealed. You will have the information and will be able to make your own decision. Freedom of speech is our birthright. We all have the freedom of independent thought. It’s just too bad there aren’t more real journalists doing real journalism out there. Too many are in prison—people such as Julian Assange. Others such as Gonzalo Lira have been murdered in prison.

—The Grrr Team

The content of the conversation will reveal why they're so mad it's happening at all.

 

[The Ugly One]

The most interesting thing about this interview was Putin's framing of various American actions since the end of the Cold War, especially in Ukraine and with the weaponization of the dollar, as strategic mistakes. I regularly get the impression that the people who run things here never think about how one thing is linked to another thing or what the long-term consequences of things like reneging on a deal might be.

 

[Napoleon III]

The most interesting thing about this interview was Putin's framing of various American actions since the end of the Cold War, especially in Ukraine and with the weaponization of the dollar, as strategic mistakes. I regularly get the impression that the people who run things here never think about how one thing is linked to another thing or what the long-term consequences of things like reneging on a deal might be.

I don't think he fully understand why this has happened. I don't think Putin or any of the people he listens to has a good sense of why the West acts the way it does. Putin would act much differently if he did.

Man, Putin is one intimidating guy. You can tell he's sitting on a treasure trove of shit and didn't want to lay out all his cards right there in that interview. I really do wish we got more about those wacky top secret labs and other projects going on in Ukraine. I'm certain his sources have figured out what's what by now.

I wish he had given more details about the things said in private meetings as well. Though I understand it's about making sure other leaders can talk to you without leaking their conversations.

But enough of this interview. I have said everything I wanted to say on it.

https://archive.is/GDv7L

Ukraine Poll Sends Worrying Message to Zelensky - Newsweek​

Ukrainians are growing more and more skeptical about the direction of their country, according to a recent poll by Ukrainian think tank Razumkov Center.

In the study published Wednesday, around 41 percent of citizens said that they believe Ukraine is "developing in the right direction," 38 percent felt it's heading in the "wrong direction," and 21 percent were undecided. The poll is based on the responses of 2,000 Ukrainian adults surveyed face-to-face by the Razumkov Center from January 19 to January 25.
Wednesday's results show a decline from a similar survey conducted last year, when 61 percent of citizens in March said they were happy with the direction that Ukraine was headed. That figure depicted the highest level of support recorded by the center. Following the February 24, 2022, onset of the Russia-Ukraine war, the share of citizens who believed that Ukraine was headed in the right direction soared to 51 percent in October 2022, compared to 21 percent in December 2021.

The areas of Ukraine that citizens said have deteriorated over the past year include prices and tariffs, the economy, stability levels in the country, the well-being of families, the attitude of citizens toward Ukrainian authorities and the confidence that citizens have in "tomorrow." Around 61 percent of respondents said that conditions in the county "as a whole" have deteriorated.

Respondents did point to some positives in Ukraine over the past year. Around 51 percent said that they saw improvements to the country's defense capabilities, and another 50 percent said the country's "international image" had been elevated.

 

[Anasûrimbor Kellhus]

I regularly get the impression that the people who run things here never think about how one thing is linked to another thing or what the long-term consequences of things like reneging on a deal might be.

I've assumed for years they're running a playbook of "well if it all gets fucked up we'll just be on the first plane to israel let the plebs fight over the ashes"

 

[Vesperus]

I've assumed for years they're running a playbook of "well if it all gets fucked up we'll just be on the first plane to israel let the plebs fight over the ashes"

I kind of wish there was a global illuminati running shit according to the grand plans of Thomas Aquinas.

Actually I'd settle for the grand plans of Eric the gerbil.

I've got a sneaky suspicion everyone in western politics* has a plan of "steal as money as possible and fuck kids."

Which is why Putin probably is confused. He's one of the only heads of state trying to actually look after his country (the other shit is just a bonus for him) and cant believe the Whitehouse is prepared to fuck the country all the way to hell.

*I am including India in this. And Africa. And least half of South America. Niue is probably OK.

 

[Shallow Wave]

Putin felt the need to antagonize Poland because Poland is the loudest barking dog with no bite nowadays

Context: Poles and Russians hate eachover ever since both of the people came into exastance with both having an extensive history of occupation of eachothers lands. American mind will not undestand

 

[Romeo]

Putin asked Tucker a question he said "do you want a serious discussion or do you want a show?" Tucker probably thought Putin was asking for Tucker to respect him but Putin was being entirely straightforward. Tucker should have asked for a show.

Maybe, but that might be one of those things that would come across as crossing the line. Tucker is already getting hate for interviewing Putin, if he was to start redirecting his rambling he might be accused of trying to make Putin look better then he does.

I guess I can attest to that reasoning.

I do not agree for three main reasons. The Poland-Lithuanian-commonwealth spent the most amount of time owning Ukrainian land out of basically anyone. The second reason is the tie back to Nazis, this is partially because the Nationalist Battalions are such an important part of the CIAs/State Department's method of controlling Ukraine, it is also partially because it is about highlighting how Poland and in general outside powers have attempted to use Ukraine as a wedge against Russia. I would have picked the Kaiser creating Ukraine instead but it serves that purpose.

I guess I may have to rephrase or repeat that Putin antagonized Poland in its phase after World War I, of which it had been mostly the defender in most of the conflicts it fought in and won. Even so, whatever grievances Russia had towards Poland in its iteration as the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth were pretty much wiped out when Poland was partitioned and Russia took over East Poland.

Even so, Poland failed to Polish-ify the Ukrainians, so the Ukrainians easily settled well as part of the Russian people, even with the hiccup when some Ukrainian cossacks joined Sweden in the Great Northern War. Comparing modern-day Poland and the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth is what I can agree with as they are using Ukraine, as you said, a wedge, against Russia. What I do not agree with is using Interwar and WW2 Poland as an example, as Interwar Poland did not give a flying fuck about Ukraine or Ukrainians, just Poles living in Western Ukraine, and was the defender in that period.

The Final reason is how Russia sees the Great Patriotic war. We see the Nazi's as subversive group that destroyed a well functioning democracy and the same ideas could do the same thing today. Russia sees Hitler as the archetypical foreign invader. To them Hitler is just another Napoleon or Charles the 12th of Sweden. Let us not forget Napoleon used Poland exactly how the west is using Ukraine today.

But you're ignoring the fact that Russia sided with the devil to defeat Poland in 1939. I find Russia's stance on Germany's invasion of the USSR understandable, Germany was committing genocide and killing everyone so for the Russians. It was an existential war, and the Nazis were obviously the big bad that is considered one of Russia's devils along with Napoleonic France.

However, Russia and its most nationalist citizens kept ignoring that before Operation Barbarossa, the Soviets were the aggressor in several countries like Finland and Poland as they were trying to reclaim all the lands till the borders of the Russian Empire. Trying to frame Poland to be close with Hitler to spite Soviet Russia is retarded because Poland had no reason to trust the Soviets after 1919.

But Poland did something else as well. They continued the war and tried to claim parts of Ukraine.

I don't understand why Poland is wrong for this. First, the non-communist part of Ukraine, the Ukrainian People's Republic, attempted to attack Poles living in cities in western Ukraine and Poland responded with force. Poland crushed Ukraine and annexed only western parts of it, of which there is a sizable Polish population there dating to the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Soon, the Soviets launched their forces to surround Poland. Poland responded by force by defeating the Soviets and taking Kiev, before retreating as the Soviets re-organized and the Poles were defeated.

However, Poland finally crushed the Soviet Army when they attacked Warsaw, and Poland managed to keep most of their gains in a treaty that the Soviets sued for. All these lands were closer to Poland in regards to its culture that many Russian nationalists in the Russo-Ukrainian War considered that Ukraine can keep if they were turned into a rump state. It was not Kiev, Kharkov, Odessa, or Sevastopol that Poland took from Ukraine and later the Soviet Union, just some of the western oblasts of Ukraine. Poland won it deservedly.

Poles and Russians het eachover ever since both of the people came into exastance with both having an extensive history of occupation of eachothers lands. American mind will not undestand

Pretty much. Trying to frame Interwar Poland be in bed with the Nazis when Poland was the defender and later victim of the Interwar and WW2 period stems from ignorance coming from this hatred between Russia and Poland, which I hoped Putin would avoid, but apparently not.

 

[Strix454]

but never mentioned that the USSR launched a failed invasion against Poland in 1919, which of course why Poland does not trust the Soviet Union in its diplomacy

In the other direction, its never mentioned that Poland in 1918 launched a hairbrained scheme to re-create the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth by launching military offensives in every direction and attacking every neighbor they had.
When they were winning and claiming Kiev and Minsk, they made no secret of their intentions or the territories they intended to rule. Then when they got their asses handed to them by the Soviet Army, they started crying about how they were the innocent victims of an evil Russian invasion. That rather than empire-building in places like Kiev, that they were knights defending the borders of western civilization.

Its never been an issue of trust. Poland has always dreamed of creating a modern state with the borders of the commonwealth in the 1600s. They view Ukraine, Belerus, Lithuania and other territories as retarded children that they have some sort of natural right to rule over.

Even so, whatever grievances Russia had towards Poland in its iteration as the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth were pretty much wiped out when Poland was partitioned and Russia took over East Poland.

There never was any "East Poland". What you are calling "East Poland" were territories inhabited by non-poles who never wanted anything to do with Poland and were abused as subhuman garbage by the Polish military dictatorship for the whole of the interwar period.

 

[Anasûrimbor Kellhus]

Which is why Putin probably is confused. He's one of the only heads of state trying to actually look after his country (the other shit is just a bonus for him) and cant believe the Whitehouse is prepared to fuck the country all the way to hell.

someone in this thread said it before that putin went in thinking that the west was being run by people like himself, guys running things but also trying to skim some money from the top for some expensive luxury boats and watches. That he could handle.

Instead they're full on religious fanatics whose top priorties are spreading homobuttsex and trooning out kids at any and all costs.

 

[White_N]

Nothing extraordinary, still don't understand why globohomo is so seething over the interview


Romaboos are ecstatic

 

[Tumbo II]

Nothing particularly groundbreaking was said in the interview Ukraine is a Soviet creation the CIA was definitely involved in Midean ect I did find it interesting to learn how especially US leaders were undercut by the CIA but I wasn't actually surprised at all.

 

[>tfw no Asian gf]

Romaboos are ecstatic

WTF I love Putin now?!