Homeworld series - Epic space battles with ambient-indian accompaniment

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Matthew Ward is Kiwi Farms Voluntary Member
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Even though Homeworld games were mentioned and discussed in different threads, we don't seem to have a dedicated one, which tells me not many people play HW atm, or want to talk about it, but with the 3rd entry on the horizon and the complete shit-show that was the open beta, i mean, the demo version for HW3, i think it is high time we have a dedicated thread.

Homeworld is a series of real-time strategy games for PC, developed by Relic Entertainment, which focuses on space battles, in which you control wide variety of spacecraft, which you can move fully in thre-dimensional space (with the notable exception of Deserts of Kharack, which take place on the planet surface). The game focuses predominately on the tactical approach, your enemy is more numerous and more powerfull, so it's all about luring ships into ambushes, performing drive-by's on critical subsystems of the bigger ships with your fast-moving units or disabling the systems and capturing the whole ship alltogether.

I don't want to spoil the story, but it's mostly a space epic, every game shows a journey through perils and adversities, with revelations that push the plot in new direction, to its ultimate conclusion in the final battle.

What makes the Homeworld series stand apart from other RTS games, are the sounds and music, written and composed by Paul Ruskay, which combines the electronic ambient with indian and arabic tones - combination of string, wind instruments and vocals, especially emphasized in Deserts of Kharack (with one notable exeption of Adagio for Strings, by Samuel Barber in the first game)

The series consist of 2 main entries, 1 stand-alone expansion - Homeworld: Cataclysm (or Homeworld;Emergence, since Acti-Blizz trademarked "Cataclysm" as an expansion name), considered a spin-off, not entirely accepted into Homeworld cannon and one-prequel - Deserts of Kharack, which tells the story of the last major conflict in the kharackian history, prior to the unification of all kharackian kithids (clans) and the start of the Mothership project. There is also a mobile, f2p spin-off, that takes place 15 years after HW 2 and focuses on the exploration mission to Nimbus Galaxy, the oppinions i saw are generally positive, so maybe the gacha is not as predatory as in most f2p(ays).

So much for the introduction, let's focus on the present: what do you guys think of HW 3 demo? Would you consider pre-ordering the game after playing the demo?
 
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The Homeworld 1 & 2 remasters suck because you cannot rebind keys. Devs are retarded.
Edit: I cannot remember whether or not this is the real reason I stopped playing or if it was something else. Regardless, the controls are more complicated than the original (which I enjoyed and hated playing but that's besides the point.) I will still blame the devs.
 
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After briefly playing the demo, I was relieved to hear they're giving it a few more months for whatever that's worth. I couldn't find any mix of movement/camera control schemes that didn't feel awful. I just wanted the feel of the classic controls but gave up on the demo. It was also a bit depressing to see the same kind of weird formation behavior for strike craft that reminded me exactly of how it was screwed up in the remasters. I pre-ordered the special edition months ago and don't plan to cancel since I mostly wanted it for the mothership and capital ship models.
 
I always loved the tone and atmosphere of those games. And I liked that it was a space RTS that was actually 3D, not a flat plane with space drawn on it like most games. The fact they made it work is amazing to me. I loved watching fighters, bombers, and corvettes do their work.

Unfortunately, I never got far in any of them. I forget why I dropped Deserts, but I remember Homeworld 2 had finite resources and an aggressive auto difficulty scale, and in order to successfully beat the campaign you deliberately had to farm resources early on by not completing objectives, and exploit flaws with the auto balance.
 
After briefly playing the demo, I was relieved to hear they're giving it a few more months for whatever that's worth. I couldn't find any mix of movement/camera control schemes that didn't feel awful. I just wanted the feel of the classic controls but gave up on the demo.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who couldn't get comfortable with the camera controls. I finished the tutorial and quit maybe 10 mins into an actual game of wargames because of the controls. Pacing, atmosphere and graphics were all good imo I just hope they can fix the controls.
 
I find it quite amusing, that practically every big youtube channel, that regularly or semi-regularly deals with strategy games, got sponsored by Gearbox to promote the Homeworld 3 demo and NONE of them calls out the technical problems, shitty camera, pathfinding (or rather, lack of thereof) - LowkoTv, Xpgamers, Raptor... everyone are super POZitive about the fun gameplay you guyz... Also lol at Captain Schacks from XP not being able to kill that Battlecruiser with a buddy, you would expect someone, who played Homeworld games in the past to have the modicum of tactical acumen to beat one ship (although, granted, it's not an easy encounter, i have also fucked up on it twice....out of 15 games).

It's almost as someone knew about the problems from the start and wanted to silence possible critiqe from the strategy-thematic channels:thinking:

I think only Mandalore made a rather critical remark about the real state of the demo, which, for all intends and purposes, was an open beta of the rougelike mode.

BTW. @Uziel Gal did your Collector's Edition preorder at Amazon got cancelled? In the official statement about the change of the launch date, they mentioned that Amazon cancelled their orders for the Collectors Edition and Gearbox bluntly stated that "it ain't their problem".
Caveat Emptor Amazon.JPG
 

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NONE of them calls out the technical problems, shitty camera, pathfinding (or rather, lack of thereof)
I always heard the Gearbox remasters were shit and not worth bothering with, but never heard why. Usually in the context of modern Xcom vs classic Xcom vs spiritual sequels like Xenonaughts and Phoenix Point. But those games are vastly different from each other and the complaints tend to be gameplay related (you can't destroy the economy in Xenonaughts by building lasers for example.)
 
I impulse bought Homeworld Emergency/Cataclysm (it was like a dollar) without knowing it wasn't the first game. Does it suck?

Edit: More importantly, am I stupid?
No, its really good, it has a more narratively led story, with twists and turns and visible stakes, so you feel more invested in it. Gameplay wise, it's harder than the original, because you are not operating as a military force, you are miners turned explorers, with basic security detail, that, over the course of the game, have to adapt to your surroundings and focus on covert tactics, hit and runs and unconventional warfare, so if you have not played any Homeworld title before, i would not recommend it, because you will be lacking the general informations about the playstyle.

There is also a somewhat important choice in mission 6, when you are presented with the opportunity to capture a Taidan heavy cruiser, which can make the next 3 missions less difficult (albeit it's VERY slow), but it will take a sizeable chunk of your unit cap, so your main force will be smaller. You need to decide whether you want a slower, but durable and very powerfull capital ship, or use the cap for more mobile and numerous fleet.

There is also the issue of launching it on modern PC's, Mandalore have the links for the software, required to launch it in higher resolution in his review, you can always look around on the web.

Apparently Blackbird has laid off a bunch of its employees including the lead game designer, Quinn Duffy, who worked on Homeworld 1.

The game seems close to finished, for better or worse, so any thoughts on the if this will have any effect on Homeworld 3?

I have conflicting emotions about it. From one hand, it's a dick move to lay-off a person, who was instrumental in creating the core mechanics of the game, 3 months before the launch and the core staff in general, bearing in mind corpos done shit like this in the past.

From the other, bearing in mind the state the "demo" was in, with its fundamental mechanics simply not working properly, along with other technical issues, i can fully understands why they decided to downsize the staff after the wave of negative comments and pre=orders cancellation. I mean, you had 5 fucking years, TONNE of cash from Fig, Gearbox and other sources and THIS is what you are presenting? And 1 month before launch no less? Nah nigga, we ain't gonna pay you anymore, we finna find someone else, or outsource this shit even, for halfa price, bix nood.

I honestly don't think it will make the game any worse, we can only go up from here, at least in the technical department.
 
Got a notification from Amazon that collector edition shipping was upgraded to release date same day for free. I guess that must have to do with the early access option. Sadly I'm not going to have much time this weekend to take advantage of the early access other than maybe opening up the box and fondling the ship models a bit

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Yeah, wanted to make a post about the roadmap, but i'm kinda disheartened, it reminds me about what happened to SC 2: Legacy of the void, when they have released a very subpar, paid singleplayer campaign and then focused on the co-op campaigns, and by focus i mean add unbalanced co-op commanders every now and then, for 15 bucks a pop, this looks very similiar to me....
https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1840080/view/4210378060865814634
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On the other note, i did smuckled, when i read, that the option to order HW3 Collectors edition from Amazon was available again, even though, up until the demo dropped, it said it was all sold out, how curious ;)
 
Well, the early access reviews are in, and, unsuprisingly, they are fellating the game hard, multiplayer is good, single player is great (without going into details why), looks gorgeous, which is good, it's nice to have a game that fucking WORKS day one and properly utilise modern technologies, most of the technical bugs have been apparently fixed, especially pathfinding, although some people still have occasional bugs here and there, but nothing major, which is also a noticable improvement from the demo/open beta.

What worries me, is that not many people are speaking about the campaign, its lenght and form, which made me suspicious. Xpgmers and Raptor shown and made remarks that the campaign is more cinematic and focuses more on interaction between characters, rather then the story as a whole - which kinda feels generic.

Also, Shacks, again, shows how big af a fan of Homeworld series he is, by not remembering its core features (time stamp 16:05)

However, what caught my eye is a pros and cons section, from a review on the Polish version of the GamePressure site:
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Pros: faithfull to the source material; eye-catching graphics; various gamemodes; which prolonge game longevity; mod support; good optimization
Cons: uncomplete Polish translation (lol, learn English then); not explained requirement for internet connection to activate offline mode,
EASY CAMPAIGN; CLICHED, UNENGAGING STORY

Those two cons in bold makes me worried, because this, along with the roadmap, shows that they have completaly sidelined the single player mode for the co-op missions, and, unless people will start creating some interesting mods, i don't see myself playing this game next week (also, even with those cons, they gave the game 8/10 lel)

I am kinda anxious what the steam comments will say next week.
 
The cinematic cutscenes for the campaign shown by people thus far disappoints me the most so far. The "sketchy" (for a lack of better word) art really complimented the soundtrack and atmosphere, particularly when paired with a story more about a people than any one individual. HW3 has apparently thrown that away in favour of an individualistic focus with 3D character animation and the usual plethora of muh heckin' diverse cast (lol at Imogen's manjaw). It makes for a jarring experience because it looks and sounds like Homeworld, but it doesn't feel like Homeworld.

Not surprised by the lack of campaign discussion by streamers and Youtube personalities given this: it's all about multiplayer and the rouge-like dynamic campaign (because DLC) with the single player story campaign being an effective afterthought. God I detest what modern gaming has turned into.
 
HW3 has apparently thrown that away in favour of an individualistic focus with 3D character animation and the usual plethora of muh heckin' diverse cast (lol at Imogen's manjaw). It makes for a jarring experience because it looks and sounds like Homeworld, but it doesn't feel like Homeworld.
Narrator is also very obviously black. Its all so fucking tiresome.
 
What worries me, is that not many people are speaking about the campaign, its lenght and form, which made me suspicious. Xpgmers and Raptor shown and made remarks that the campaign is more cinematic and focuses more on interaction between characters, rather then the story as a whole - which kinda feels generic.
Not surprised by the lack of campaign discussion by streamers and Youtube personalities given this: it's all about multiplayer and the rouge-like dynamic campaign (because DLC) with the single player story campaign being an effective afterthought. God I detest what modern gaming has turned into.
A remark on having characters at all already rings alarm bells concerning faithfulness to what Homeworld is meant to be, and I was already very off-put before about the unique black-and-white concept art-esque cutscenes being done away with in preference for a weird-looking S'jet in one of the early trailers. Now I hear that story isn't even the main single-player feature? Man, it feels like Dawn of War 3 all over again, right down to being about yet another RTS IP originally created by Relic.
 
Narrator is also very obviously black. Its all so fucking tiresome.
The VA of the intel officer is also the house nigga Democracy Officer on your plantation Super Destroyer in Helldivers 2 if that's any consolation.

Also, Mandalore Gaming, a big fan of the Homeworld franchise, is clearly going to get hammered tonight :drink:
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When I saw the 'road map', I decided I may buy it when it's finished sometime next year. I don't care about multiplayer, I want a good campaign
 
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