Law A famous climate scientist is in court, with big stakes for attacks on science - They're trying to use the courts to stop any criticism of their bogus theories.

FEBRUARY 6, 20246:00 AM ET
By Julia Simon

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Michael Mann is a professor of Earth and Environmental Science at University of Pennsylvania. He's suing a right wing author and a policy analyst for defamation.
Slaven Vlasic/Getty Images for HBO


In a D.C. courtroom, a trial is wrapping up this week with big stakes for climate science. One of the world's most prominent climate scientists is suing a right wing author and a policy analyst for defamation.

The case comes at a time when attacks on scientists are proliferating, says Peter Hotez, professor of Pediatrics and Molecular Virology at Baylor College of Medicine. Even as misinformation about scientists and their work keeps growing, Hotez says scientists haven't yet found a good way to respond.

"The reason we're sort of fumbling at this is it's unprecedented. And there is no roadmap," he says.

A famous graph becomes a target

The climate scientist at the center of this trial is Michael Mann. The Professor of Earth and Environmental Science at University of Pennsylvania gained prominence for helping make one of the most accessible, consequential graphs in the history of climate science.

First published in the late 1990s, the graph shows thousands of years of relatively stable global temperatures. Then, when humans start burning lots of coal and oil, it shows a spike upward. Mann's graph looks like a hockey stick lying on its side, with the blade sticking straight up.

The so-called "hockey stick graph" was successful in helping the public understand the urgency of global warming, and that made it a target, says Kert Davies, director of special investigations at the Center for Climate Integrity, a climate accountability nonprofit. "Because it became such a powerful image, it was under attack from the beginning," he says.

The attacks came from groups that reject climate science, some funded by the fossil fuel industry. In the midst of these types of attacks - including the hacking of Mann's and other scientists' emails by unknown hackers - Penn State, where Mann was then working, opened an investigation into his research. Penn State, as well as the National Science Foundation, found no evidence of scientific misconduct. But a policy analyst and an author wrote that they were not convinced.

The trial, more than a decade in the making

The trial in D.C. Superior Court involves posts from right wing author Mark Steyn and policy analyst Rand Simberg. In an online post, Simberg compared Mann to former Penn State Football coach Jerry Sandusky, a convicted child sex abuser. Simberg wrote that Mann was the "Sandusky of climate science" writing that Mann "molested and tortured data." Steyn called Mann's research fraudulent.

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The hockey stick graph, based on research from Michael Mann and other scientists, helped make global warming accessible to a wide audience. It was featured in part in the documentary An Inconvenient Truth. The graph also became a target for climate deniers.
Paramount/Screenshot by NPR


Mann sued the two men for defamation. Mann also sued the publishers of the posts, National Review and the Competitive Enterprise Institute, but in 2021, the court ruled they couldn't be held liable.

In court, Mann has argued he lost funding and research opportunities. Steyn said in court that if Penn State's president, Graham Spanier, covered up child sexual assault why wouldn't he cover up for Mann's science. The science in question used ice cores and tree rings to estimate Earth's past temperatures.

"If Graham Spanier is prepared to cover up child rape, week in, week out, year in, year out, why would he be the least bit squeamish about covering up a bit of hanky panky with the tree rings and the ice cores?" Steyn asked the court.

Mann and Steyn declined to speak to NPR during the ongoing trial. One of Simberg's lawyers, Victoria Weatherford, said "inflammatory does not equal defamatory" and that her client is allowed to express his opinion, even if it were wrong.

"No matter how offensive or distasteful or heated it is," Weatherford tells NPR, "that speech is absolutely protected under the First Amendment when it's said against a public figure, if the person saying it believed that what they said was true."

Many scientists under attack

Mann isn't the only climate scientist facing attacks, says Lauren Kurtz, executive director of the Climate Science Legal Defense Fund.

"We help more scientists every year than the year before," Kurtz says, "We actually broke a record in 2023. We helped over 50 researchers."

Dozens of climate scientists from the federal government have contacted her group in recent years, many alleging they were censored under the Trump administration. During his presidency Donald Trump denied the science of climate change and pulled the U.S. out of the U.N. Paris Climate Agreement addressing global warming.

But while climate researchers were early targets of people rejecting peer-reviewed science, now those attacks have spread to biomedical scientists, supercharged by the COVID-19 pandemic. Kurtz says while they primarily provide legal defense for climate researchers, they've recently heard from COVID-19 researchers, too.

Hotez worries about the ramifications for the future of science and medicine. He says: "Young people, looking at future careers, looking at how scientists are attacked are going to say, 'Well, why do I want to go into this profession?'"

Solutions for attacks on scientists

Hotez says he's glad Mann is fighting back in court. But he doesn't think a bunch of lawsuits is a sustainable solution. And he says he wants to keep working in the lab.

"We have a new human hookworm vaccine that'll come online soon," he says, "That's how I want to spend my time. I don't want to spend my day making cold calls to plaintiff lawyers."

Imran Ahmed, chief executive at the Center for Countering Digital Hate, says any response has to include social media companies as that's where attacks on scientists happen every day. Research finds that social media platforms can encourage the spread of scientific and medical misinformation.

Hotez says he and Mann are working on an upcoming project, collaborating on what they see as overlap in attacks on climate science and biomedicine, and how to counter it.

Source (Archive)
 
No you misunderstand. I know Ozone is constantly being depleted and replaced. This is a normal process and natural. The issue was that the CFCs were interfering and reacting with the ozone, resulting in a much faster depletion rate than normal which in turn caused the thinning of the ozone layer.
I'd ask for citations for this claim, which defies the laws of physics, but every "source" has been compromised almost as long as I've been alive.

CFC's are heavier than the rest of the air.
They're heavier than CO2 which tends to linger in lower elevations and valleys when released due to volcanic activity.

Even the reactive chlorine atoms they say are sheared off in their reaction diagrams are twice as heavy as individual oxygen atoms, guaranteeing oxygen in the upper atmosphere will be encountering other oxygen rather than chlorine

The idea they'd reach the altitudes required to impact ozone formation is absurd.
 
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Cue to that old trope "cool it with the antisemitism".

Eureka, that's it! We need to cool it with antisemitism!
If we divert all money to farmers to post kike and give a computer to every palestinian, the temperature will drop 10 degrees.

Plus the resulting ice age will have funny CGI squirrels like the Sharty!

Wait you mean the ozone hole could have been there? Was there another one in the northern pole? Stellar radiation breaks stuff down, and the magnetosphere dumps it there, that's what makes auroras....huh.
 
Yeah, so this is definitely pseudo-science.
Ice cores is actually a pretty decent way to get very old temperature data, provided theyre taken from an otherwise undisturbed glacier with a consistent growth rate. Where Mr. Hockeystick is being dishonest is right here:
First published in the late 1990s, the graph shows thousands of years of relatively stable global temperatures.
"thousands of years" read the x-axis, the graph literally only goes back one (1) thousand years. I dont have a source for this at the moment but if you use the same technique and ACTUALLY go back "thousands of years" you get a graph that looks something like this:
1707321052284.png

Im reconstructing that from memory and it might miss some details (I seem to remember theres an anomaly around 12,000-10,000 BC) but the gist is if you actually extend the resolution on ice core data then the temperatures of the last 100 years actually are not unprecedented at all.
 
Oh this brings back memories. I love Mark Steyn.

If you read Michael Mann’s emails from discovery, he is a colossal dick who spent a large amount of time scheming to punish colleagues and member of the public who disagreed with him.

Plus his “science” is a dogshit model, which was being argued at the time and has been proven with the passage of time. Another researcher pointed out back then how you could input any data you wanted and it would spit out a hockey stick.
Orson Scott Card, of all people, was talking about this about a decade ago on his blog. The people I (skeptically) shared it with basically indicated they thought he was crazy.
 
I'd ask for citations for this claim, which defies the laws of physics, but every "source" has been compromised almost as long as I've been alive.

CFC's are heavier than the rest of the air.
They're heavier than CO2 which tends to linger in lower elevations and valleys when released due to volcanic activity.

Even the reactive chlorine atoms they say are sheared off in their reaction diagrams are twice as heavy as individual oxygen atoms, guaranteeing oxygen in the upper atmosphere will be encountering other oxygen rather than chlorine

The idea they'd reach the altitudes required to impact ozone formation is absurd.
I also remember people saying that CFCs are "attracted" to the poles, the mechanism by which this happened was never explained.... just that they HAD to be since that's where the hole was.
 
I'd ask for citations for this claim, which defies the laws of physics, but every "source" has been compromised almost as long as I've been alive.

CFC's are heavier than the rest of the air.
They're heavier than CO2 which tends to linger in lower elevations and valleys when released due to volcanic activity.

Even the reactive chlorine atoms they say are sheared off in their reaction diagrams are twice as heavy as individual oxygen atoms, guaranteeing oxygen in the upper atmosphere will be encountering other oxygen rather than chlorine

The idea they'd reach the altitudes required to impact ozone formation is absurd.
I also remember people saying that CFCs are "attracted" to the poles, the mechanism by which this happened was never explained.... just that they HAD to be since that's where the hole was.

The research and explanations I remember hearing about had to do with the fact CFCs and such would end on the air and carried up, especially in clouds of exhaust and smog. I also know that some ozone is made by lighting strikes which happens much lower in the atmosphere where you could reliably find CFCs around back when they were common, but this is me doing a ass pull and speculating now.

The poles thing is actually easier to explain: the way the air currents work they constantly cycle around taking stuff from the equator to the poles and down again in a big circular which helps motion which spreads the temperatures in the world and why we have polar vortexes which cause harsher cold from time to time. However it is more likely that the holes were on the poles simply because in those places the atmosphere is slightly thinner due to the spin of the earth and the bulge of the equator and unequal gravity. So not so much "it gathers on the poles" as much as "it's easier to tell its thinner on the poles because it is so thin already".

"thousands of years" read the x-axis, the graph literally only goes back one (1) thousand years. I dont have a source for this at the moment but if you use the same technique and ACTUALLY go back "thousands of years" you get a graph that looks something like this:
1707321052284.png

Im reconstructing that from memory and it might miss some details (I seem to remember theres an anomaly around 12,000-10,000 BC) but the gist is if you actually extend the resolution on ice core data then the temperatures of the last 100 years actually are not unprecedented at all.

That graph is still good compared to some recent ones. Last year the cultists made a whole scream about how it was "THE HOTTEST 4TH OF JULY EVER" and had a entire global media blitz on it. But once you looked into it the data model they were using for it was only measuring the temperature of about a hundred or so cities and only went back to 1977.
 
they banned all the chemicals they said affected it
You're gonna love this!

The process to manufacture CFCs was developed in the 1940s and patented by General Chemical Corp (later, DuPont). The patent expired in 1964. When the patent expired, DuPont was obviously making less money.

They searched for, and in 1985 discovered, another chemical that could be used as a refrigerant. Not a CFC, but an HFC: Dichlorofluoromethane (the brand name is R21). Unfortunately, R21 isn't as good as CFCs ...so there's no way to make money selling it.

WHAT A COINCIDENCE!!

That same year, the hole in the ozone layer was discovered. After some political pressure, the "Montreal Protocol" was established banning CFC ...making DuPonts new and patented chemical a gold mine!

...the patent for the production of R12 expired in 2012, which is why you're hearing about the ozone layer again.
 
That same year, the hole in the ozone layer was discovered. After some political pressure, the "Montreal Protocol" was established banning CFC ...making DuPonts new and patented chemical a gold mine!

...the patent for the production of R12 expired in 2012
And they've conveniently banned R12 recently.
 
Not to deanonimize myself to much but I was at Penn State when climategate happened and the investigation was a total whitewash. The university was more interested in catching the based lord chalking "climategate" on the sidewalks then in finding anything untoward about the superstar professor they spent a lot of time andcmoney wooing to cone there.
Not surprising with how long they covered for Jerry Sandusky
 
Iirc the judge still has to rule on it. There's a possibility he could overturn the verdict, as he was sceptical of Mann's reasoning and chastised his lawyers several times during the case. On the other hand, he allowed this farce to continue for a decade and didn't intervene at multiple moments that should have seen the case tossed. It should never have gone before a jury. He should have declared a mistrial when Mann's lawyer told the jury to use their verdict to "send a message" to climate sceptics, that they should be silenced by fear of punitive legal costs
 
Scientists aren't been attacked. They've been told "I don't agree with you".

This case and similar are proving that a big majority of scientists don't give a shit about science, they just want a degree and diploma to force all of us to agree with them because they know and understand something that's obscure for us.
When i started my career, science was still, mainly, a process, not a religion. I remember getting grilled as a PhD student, and older profs almost sadistic enjoyment of taking apart peoples presentations and work. You HAD to question, question everything and question often. The idea was ‘this is what we think now, open to change with more data, anyone see any issues?’
Now it’s a set dogma that you must never question and that is NOT science, it’s a cult.
At work, I’ve had people tell me they don’t understand my problem solving process - part of it is asking my teams ‘what’s wrong here? What could go wrong? Look at it as a whole, find the cracks, rip it apart.’ Apparently this is and I quote ‘unnerving.’ I think it’s essential. But it shows you how much critical thinking is lost and how sheeplike people are. The younger generations in particular most have a very collectivist mindset and will not entertain anything that challenges their core beliefs. All their core beliefs are externally imposed, rather than a product of reasoning and experience as well
And of course carbon is perfect as social control. It’s a massive thing nobody can do anything about. Can’t see it or hear it. But the government can use this invisible thing to regulate your behaviour. We desperately need a return to REAL environmentalism - preservation of habitat, biodiversity, and clean water and air and soil.
 
The trial in D.C. Superior Court involves posts from right wing author Mark Steyn and policy analyst Rand Simberg. In an online post, Simberg compared Mann to former Penn State Football coach Jerry Sandusky, a convicted child sex abuser. Simberg wrote that Mann was the "Sandusky of climate science" writing that Mann "molested and tortured data." Steyn called Mann's research fraudulent.
Crazy person that should have been ignored.
In court, Mann has argued he lost funding and research opportunities. Steyn said in court that if Penn State's president, Graham Spanier, covered up child sexual assault why wouldn't he cover up for Mann's science. The science in question used ice cores and tree rings to estimate Earth's past temperatures.
It's possible, grant funding is competitive.
"No matter how offensive or distasteful or heated it is," Weatherford tells NPR, "that speech is absolutely protected under the First Amendment when it's said against a public figure, if the person saying it believed that what they said was true."
I agree, he has a constitutional right to be a dumbass.
Kurtz says while they primarily provide legal defense for climate researchers, they've recently heard from COVID-19 researchers, too.
Not surprising with how extra anti-vaxers are these days, claiming vaccines are torture that would be illegal under the Nuremburg trials.
"We have a new human hookworm vaccine that'll come online soon," he says, "That's how I want to spend my time. I don't want to spend my day making cold calls to plaintiff lawyers."
That's pretty cool. Vaccines for parasites are a very interesting emerging field.
You can't "vaccinate" against parasites the size of hookworms (several mm to 1cm).
They infect you through the soles of your feet by burrowing through the (calloused) skin. The idea T-cells can fight that is absurd, like trying to fend off godzilla with a glock.
Thankfully we have cheap, safe ivermectin to poison them.
Gee, I wonder why Hotez was so anti-ivermectin the past couple years!?
Well there's already a malaria vaccine in regular use in Africa now so it's not that crazy that they're trying to go after other parasites with vaccines. Ivermectin can cause kidney damage, vaccines could be safer and protect for longer.
washington D.C.
communist
Ah yes, the seat of the biggest capitalist empire on Earth. Totally communist.
I don't think you guys understand how actually weird it is for the Climate Science Legal Defense Fund to exist.
It makes perfect sense. There is an organization to defend animal research too, probably because of psycho animal rights activists like those people who dug up a guinea pig farmer's corpse in the UK.
climate communism has been instrumental to a lot of the societal rot we’re currently dealing with.
:politisperg:
It’s also retarded to complain about atmospheric carbon because it offsets itself by making plants grow better with less water.
Some plants evolved to live off less carbon, so the extra carbon actually isn't good for them. Neither is the massive lack of uncultivated, natural habitat for them to grow.
You will notice the difference between these two and the Climate Change™️ is very simple: Direct cause and effect.
It's not very hard to understand that excess carbon is raising the average global temperature by trapping heat. How much more cause and effect can you get?
 
I also know that some ozone is made by lighting strikes which happens much lower in the atmosphere where you could reliably find CFCs around back when they were common, but this is me doing a ass pull and speculating now.
That's a real straw grasp, friend. There's about 5 quadrillion metric tons of atmospheric gas out there. About 3 billion metric tons of that is stratospheric ozone. I can't imagine that whatever shreds of short-lived O3 is created by lightning could possibly matter on a global scale.

It's not very hard to understand that excess carbon is raising the average global temperature by trapping heat. How much more cause and effect can you get?
The effects of atmospheric gasses, like the effects of hydrogen ions in water (aka pH,) are related to concentration in a logarithmic manner. So, as the concentration increases, the effect you see increases at a slower and slower rate. To put it another way, if over the last 100 years, we burned 1/3rd of all available fossil fuels, and it increased the global average temperature by 0.5 C, then in order to increase the temperature by another 0.5 C, we would have to burn all of the rest of Earth's available fossil fuels. Twice as much is needed to produce the same effect.
 
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Well there's already a malaria vaccine in regular use in Africa
It's called the sickle cell gene.
But in all seriousness, malaria is much smaller scale (protozoa smaller than a blood cell vs invertebrate worm averaging 1cm).
Comparing malaria side by side to hookworms is like comparing an X-wing side by side with the death star.

But hey, you're retarded enough to think the USA, which has been proto-communist since the 1930's, is "capitalist", despite the government gatekeeping who is allowed to "win" since 1930. You'd think having witnessed what the government has done to the kiwifarms' ability to accept payments, get webhosting, and register domains, all of which never happens to facebook despite them hosting the christchurch shootings live, you'd understand this by now, but hey, your IQ is lower than your shoe size.
 
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But in all seriousness, malaria is much smaller scale (protozoa smaller than a blood cell vs invertebrate worm averaging 1cm).
Comparing malaria side by side to hookworms is like comparing an X-wing side by side with the death star.
True, we'll have to see how well their efforts go. It would be cool if they ever made it but the problem with vaccine and other therapeutic development like this is that it's one of those diseases that exists due to horrible sanitation in the developing world.
That's the problem with a lot of "neglected tropical diseases" research, sounds noble by the name but not when you realize it's due to their penchant for living in filth. If Africans are too stupid not to shit where they drink and eat and not wear shoes when we've been wearing them since prehistoric times, they should be allowed to die through natural selection unimpeded.
But hey, you're retarded enough to think the USA, which has been proto-communist since the 1930's, is "capitalist", despite the government gatekeeping who is allowed to "win" since 1930. You'd think having witnessed what the government has done to the kiwifarms' ability to accept payments, get webhosting, and register domains, all of which never happens to facebook despite them hosting the christchurch shootings live, you'd understand this by now, but hey, your IQ is lower than your shoe size.
Call that crony capitalism or corporatism but communism is when all production of goods is controlled by workers.
 
It's not very hard to understand that excess carbon is raising the average global temperature by trapping heat. How much more cause and effect can you get?
CO2 levels and temperature are not well correlated at any scale. There are good reasons for this that anyone with a brain would be able to figure out just by looking at its absorption and emission frequencies and comparing them to other gases. The only place they correlate is in computer models that are written to assume such a correlation, but those models don't correlate well with observed temperatures.

It's also not "trapping" heat. The alleged warming effect is to raise the equilibrium emission height of the atmosphere, or the height at which incoming radiation is balanced by outgoing radiation. The argument is that it then takes longer for heat to escape, which has to ignore certain physical processes to work. It was a misnomer to call it the greenhouse effect to begin with, as greenhouses do in fact trap heat by preventing convection, whereas there is a great deal of evidence that CO2 - by absorbing energy so readily - increases overall convection, increasing overall emission at the top of atmosphere. Outgoing long-wave radiation has increased over the period; it is used as a proxy for atmospheric temperature, but that may be mistaken.

It doesn't matter, anyway. Enough predictions of the CO2-warming hypothesis have already been falsified to render the whole thing easily rejected. One of the key predictions it made is for a tropospheric hotspot to appear, as a result of "trapped" heat gathering in the upper troposphere. No such hotspot exist. Given the entire hypothesis rests on assumptions that the behaviour of the atmosphere would create such a hotspot, the fact that its lack of appearance hasn't tossed the entire climate change narrative into the bin is an indication that it is driven by something other than scientific inquiry.
 
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