Rocksteady teases Suicide Squad game

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I am pretty sure Grayson left because Batman was getting more violent and cold as he went along. There was an entire scene of Batman willing to beat a man in front of his kid. BTAS depicted a version of Batman that spiraled downwards in comparison to The Batman or Brave & The Bold, where he became more socially healthy with time. The story you are quoting came in through a comic adaptation, which typically were made without involvement from the DCAU staff
Iirc the storyline was written for the show and the comic was just the first time it was actualized in canon. The episode you're talking about is Old Wounds where Grayson explains why he became Nightwing to Tim. Bruce beat some goon in front of his kids and then Grayson realized Barbara and Bruce were hiding things from him. The thing is though, the episode ends with Grayson realizing Bruce hired the goon to work for him and had been taking care of his family out of pocket, so Grayson reaches out to Bruce to reconnect. But BB just wipes it's ass with that, so you may as well too for what it was worth.

Honestly my favorite old Batman is the 2005 The Batmans version. He's still an grumpy asshole, but the rest of the batfamily just take a "yeah OK grandpa, now take your meds" attitude.

The Arkham series did do Nightwing dirty though. I have no idea why they gave Tim all of his character traits. I assume they though Grayson's ass was enough personality for him? It feels like Grayson is in the same slump Jason was in the 90s where no one know what to do with him beyond marketing.
There is too many capeshitters in general. Every universe seems to have multiple of the same power sets repeated and a lot of the same archetypes. It is a fundamental flaw of combining an entire company’s lineup into a singular universe. You cannot make break out characters in a space where they will get bogged by guy from 70 years ago with same powers and/or characteristics.
Absolutely. Modern witers can only write enough personality for about 2 1/2 characters. When you add more than that, they have to spread that personality thin between the cast. That's why adding infinity characters with the multiverse is so stupid and everyone intrinsically understands this but them.
 
To defend modern writers a bit, Freeze is a one-trick pony that writers have to somehow keep using. Not even the BTAS writers knew what to do with him post-debut. His wife story can work for one narrative, but any farther and it falls apart. No one in the DC universe can get this woman cured? Then if she is cured, what does Freeze even do?
I don't know, maybe have Freeze cure Nora and he starts helping Batman in gratitude? Mr. Freeze effectively made power armor as a side effect of treating his condition, so imagine what he could do with a little funding from Waynetech. The unique quality of Freeze is that he is one of the least malicious rogues in Batman's gallery, and he's willing to set aside villainous aspirations for mutual benefit. Mr. Freeze doesn't have to be an eternal sadsack. He's a tragic villain primed for a really satisfactory redemption arc, but just like with Marvel with Spider-Man, the writers despise the concept of Mr. Freeze moving on from a constant stream of low points.
 
Absolutely. Modern witers can only write enough personality for about 2 1/2 characters. When you add more than that, they have to spread that personality thin between the cast. That's why adding infinity characters with the multiverse is so stupid and everyone intrinsically understands this but them.
Another big issue is the inability to flesh out a world. At least characters like Batman and Superman had a bit of time on their own before being dragged into crossovers, plus multiple singular universe else worlds. They are given amble time to establish a setting, cast and concept. In the comic landscape of events happening every month, any new face is just going to get shuffled into the universe without being given time to distinguish themselves.

He's a tragic villain primed for a really satisfactory redemption arc, but just like with Marvel with Spider-Man, the writers despise the concept of Mr. Freeze moving on from a constant stream of low points.
It’s less writers and more corporate. Freeze is a villain and having him be redeemed would ruin marketing and the status quo. A lot of Batman villains suffer these constraints, with Harley being the next biggest example after Freeze of a character they clearly want to go straight, yet cannot commit to the idea as it would remove her wackiness.
 
I think Arkham is the only place Freeze has gotten the genuine redemptive good ending you want to see, where he and Nora go off to live out her final days together after she gets thawed out.
God, that was genuinely touching and almost heartbreaking. "Time has never been on our side..."
If anything, this will make people realize how good Arkham Knight really was despite all it's flaws.
I never played AK before Suicide Squad, and Batmobile bullshit aside its a really good game.
 
Looking over not just this game but the recent versions of the Suicide Squad, how well, retarded the Quinn character has become. When Timm andl Dini created Harley Quinn I think they understood what made her a compelling character was that she had to be like most other Batman villains - a tragic figure but who is also a prisoner of their self-sabotage. Her reinvention into Feminist Deadpool made her a different character entirely, and the depictions of her have gotten only more retarded since.
 
Anyways, I stopped following comics around then but the biggest problem for me was that, because boomer audiences wouldn't accept or buy all new characters, creators gave up and decided to make them knockoffs instead. Idea for a female hero? She's a Green Lantern. Idea for an asshole kid? He's Robin. No idea for Spiderman? Kill him and slot in a black guy with nearly identical backstory. It was so lazy and unrewarding. And because nobody is allowed to stay dead you end up with six GLs, four Flashes, three Robins, two Spidermen and Krypto being canon again. Just pure shit.
There is too many capeshitters in general. Every universe seems to have multiple of the same power sets repeated and a lot of the same archetypes. It is a fundamental flaw of combining an entire company’s lineup into a singular universe. You cannot make break out characters in a space where they will get bogged by guy from 70 years ago with same powers and/or characteristics.
Absolutely. Modern witers can only write enough personality for about 2 1/2 characters. When you add more than that, they have to spread that personality thin between the cast. That's why adding infinity characters with the multiverse is so stupid and everyone intrinsically understands this but them.
I agree entirely with you all on this. Modern superhero universes are far too bloated, and doubly so remembering that there's 1) only a small core of solo heroes and teams people actually care about long-term and 2) most of them were made in the 30s-40s and reinvented in the 60s (DC) and 60s to 70s (Marvel).

Of course new characters have to be made to see if you can always strike lightning again, after all, the X-Men truly came into their own in 1975 with the All-New All-Different team, or even DC's Silver Age making new heroes wearing the Flash/Lantern monikers and Supes, Bats, Wondy, and Aquaman getting serious new spins on their origins and/or worlds. Everyone gets that. But there's been such a ridiculous focus on new characters, and thus gradual buildup to "somebody's favorite", it's spread not just those powersets and personalities too thin but storylines and plots. Like, surely we can all agree perhaps some awesome bad guy would work better against an A-list hero than the C-lister he started out fighting against, or say, that Dick Grayson had most of his character traits stripped away to give relevancy to others (he was a detective nearly as good as Batman once upon a time before they strip-mined it to give to Tim as the "smart one).

Imagine a world where new heroes and villains were much more sparingly created and thus the "illusion of change" or at least comic book time thus felt a lot more natural since it'd feel much more in the moment, timeless, with how few capes there are. So many more plots could be given to the A-listers who could REALLY make them work (and a lot of "A-listers" need all the good classic stories they can get). Heck, the fewer capes the better to keep the idea that like Marvel claims it's merely "the world outside your window". Like fifty superpowered individuals tops (good or bad) versus the hundreds to like a thousand we have today, means everything from a lower power level in general for the heroes themselves (which makes it easier to construct threats for them to struggle against), to in turn the less of them are able to affect the wider world (which means less Crisis and event-level stuff as the new norm). You'd even have the original civilian supporting casts keep their prominence in order to have the hero have people to bounce off of instead them being gradually replaced by fellow capes.

I've always been a fan of keeping a superhero universe fairly small and streamlined, can you tell?
 
I don't know, maybe have Freeze cure Nora and he starts helping Batman in gratitude? Mr. Freeze effectively made power armor as a side effect of treating his condition, so imagine what he could do with a little funding from Waynetech. The unique quality of Freeze is that he is one of the least malicious rogues in Batman's gallery, and he's willing to set aside villainous aspirations for mutual benefit. Mr. Freeze doesn't have to be an eternal sadsack. He's a tragic villain primed for a really satisfactory redemption arc, but just like with Marvel with Spider-Man, the writers despise the concept of Mr. Freeze moving on from a constant stream of low points.
Since I prefer to pretend Suicide Squad never happened, I like to think that after Nora's death after the events of Arkham Knight, Fries came back to Gotham, got offered a job by Lucius Fox as a researcher at Wayne Enterprises, and eventually found a cure both to his own condition and to Huntington's Chorea (the disease Nora has in the game), which is what Batman clearly wanted for him since City. Then if Batman ever comes back, it would be a touching moment to have Lucius send him to see Fries for some new gadgetry or something, and Batman being proud of Victor's newfound success.

Imagine a world where new heroes and villains were much more sparingly created
Would never happen. Comic writers, at least at the Big 2, get paid a royalty on each new character they create if it gets used somewhere. They're literally incentivized to make new characters as opposed to continuing the existing characters' stories. Not that it matters; just about every good big name character has been twisted around and shat on beyond belief over the past couple decades, to a point where their stories are irreparably damaged.
 
Since I prefer to pretend Suicide Squad never happened, I like to think that after Nora's death after the events of Arkham Knight, Fries came back to Gotham, got offered a job by Lucius Fox as a researcher at Wayne Enterprises, and eventually found a cure both to his own condition and to Huntington's Chorea (the disease Nora has in the game), which is what Batman clearly wanted for him since City.
Maybe I am misremembering, but I am pretty sure Freeze dies in Knight. He shut off his suit so both him and Nora would be on a timer.
 
Arkham Knight is well worth buying and still holds up today.
Looking over not just this game but the recent versions of the Suicide Squad, how well, retarded the Quinn character has become. When Timm andl Dini created Harley Quinn I think they understood what made her a compelling character was that she had to be like most other Batman villains - a tragic figure but who is also a prisoner of their self-sabotage. Her reinvention into Feminist Deadpool made her a different character entirely, and the depictions of her have gotten only more retarded since.
She's either a Psychology PhD or a Psychiatrist. The joker is just that good at corrupting people, something Batman is remarkable at resisting.
I've always been a fan of keeping a superhero universe fairly small and streamlined, can you tell?
Alan Moore's Watchmen had just one superhuman, and still managed a rich story.
 
I'm not sure, but didn't some idiot writer retcon that into her being a dumb slut who slept her way through college?
That idiot writer would be Paul Dini, the literal creator of Harley Quinn.

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I personally think it's a lot more interesting if Harley is actually smart but plays dumb, but then I'm a big fan of characters that let people underestimate them like that to gain an advantage.

The thing is though, for me, it doesn't necessarily have to be a dichotomy. Harley could be a brilliant psychologist AND have slept with her professors to get good grades. Both of those things can be true.
 
She's either a Psychology PhD or a Psychiatrist. The joker is just that good at corrupting people, something Batman is remarkable at resisting.
I thought it was pretty clever to show her not doing her Psychology homework and then have her fall for Jokers pretty basic "My daddy was a meanie" manipulation spiel, and it's completely in character for Harley to reject the possibility that Joker lied to her even after Batman explains it to her.

Imo the "dumb slut" angle is way exaggerated when it comes to TAS continuity. In the Mad Love comic the "sleeping with professors" thing is exactly one panel. Even if we dismiss her PhD, in the same comic she 1. becomes a master gymnast, 2. gets accepted at Arkham as an intern 3. gets one on one interviews with that universes Hannibal Lector 4. breaks him out of Arkham completely unaided 5. CATCHES BATMAN COMPLETELY UNAIDED.
The only way Batman can save his life is by having her call Joker who ruins the plan because of his ego.
So in TAS she is brilliant but shortsighted, fame hungry and trusting all the wrong people, especially Joker.
In the Arkham games Batman calls her "not too bright" and she gets knocked out easier than random goons. Pretty sure one of the comics establishes she at least has super strength, but whatever.
I also blame Arkham for the trend of putting her in ever uglier stripper wear. Up to this point she still had her classic outfit in the comics.
 
I don't know, maybe have Freeze cure Nora and he starts helping Batman in gratitude? Mr. Freeze effectively made power armor as a side effect of treating his condition, so imagine what he could do with a little funding from Waynetech. The unique quality of Freeze is that he is one of the least malicious rogues in Batman's gallery, and he's willing to set aside villainous aspirations for mutual benefit. Mr. Freeze doesn't have to be an eternal sadsack. He's a tragic villain primed for a really satisfactory redemption arc, but just like with Marvel with Spider-Man, the writers despise the concept of Mr. Freeze moving on from a constant stream of low points.
Didn't the Heart of Ice film finish the storyline where Norah gets daved and Freeze dies? It's as a good ending as you can hope for.

In general DC and Marvel are polar opposite in terms of legacy characters. Marvel has zero issue killing villains in their non comic media while DC keeps their villain list so bloated to the point you wonder why no one doubletaps the Joker after the tenth time he decimates the local police station.
 
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Didn't the Heart of Ice film finish the storyline where Norah gets daved and Freeze dies? It's as a good ending as you can hope for.
There's a sequence at the end where Fries is in the Arctic and looks in on a television in some house, hearing about his wife before moving on, happy that she's healthy and alive. Very touching.

The thing is though, for me, it doesn't necessarily have to be a dichotomy. Harley could be a brilliant psychologist AND have slept with her professors to get good grades. Both of those things can be true.
Absolutely! Harley Quinn is a text book spoiled Jewish American Princess that got everything handed too her and what wasn't, she took.

Working at Arkham was supposed to pad out her career, so she could be a pop psychologist.

As someone said earlier, making her Feminist Deadpool and doing shit like calling out Dr Fate for using Doctor (Nelson was an archeologist) was a bit of a stretch.

I know it's no place to kvetch here about it, but Ivy is just as bad for Harley as the Joker, just toxic in a new and different awful way.
 
I finally got around to watching a highlight supercut video of MauLer's streams on the game, and my God. What an absolutely horrendous steaming pile of shit, I think I can safely rank it as one of the worst video games I have ever seen for the points listed below:

  • Awfully written story with numerous plot holes, that is completely inconsiderate to the universe it is contained in
  • Writing is disrespectful to many characters that people love, simply to be edgy? funny?
  • Trash gameplay, made for the most ADHD addled zoomer minds, incomprehensible to anyone normal
  • Games as a service; always live and needs constant internet and server connection, or else you cant play the single player game
  • Retarded politics, fuck White toxic heteromasculinity, and all that jazz
  • Characters are written very poorly, often seeming like malicious caricatures of themselves
  • The fact they even mentioned Conroy, as if any of the people who made this game respect him. If they did, they wouldn't have put a lootbox opening immediately after his ingame memorial
  • The weird shit between Ivy and Harley? I don't even know, nor want to know
  • Race swapping Deadshot
  • And so much more!
What a travesty. The people behind this one deserve to be penniless and destitute, scraping grease off the underside of a fryer for the rest of their lives.
 
Looking over not just this game but the recent versions of the Suicide Squad, how well, retarded the Quinn character has become. When Timm andl Dini created Harley Quinn I think they understood what made her a compelling character was that she had to be like most other Batman villains - a tragic figure but who is also a prisoner of their self-sabotage. Her reinvention into Feminist Deadpool made her a different character entirely, and the depictions of her have gotten only more retarded since.
And fat soy retards like Kevin Smith named their daughter after her. Couldn't be more fitting... naming your daughter after an insane whore cartoon character.
 
So, just finished the Harley DLC for AK, and I figured I'd add my own 2c to the Harley talk. Considering her Psychosis Vision in that where she basically goes Malk complete with freaky messages from her subconscious, why not lean into that as part of making her go independent? Have her undergo a full psychotic break after the events of AK as she's unable to cope with Joker never coming back and have her subconscious constantly intruding into her conscious. Combine that with her talents as a psychologist and she'd be horrifying, both in her levels of delusion as well as her twisted hyper-awareness.

"Na, yer lying to me about that. I see it written all over yer face. Literally."
 
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