Greer v. Moon, No. 20-cv-00647 (D. Utah Sep. 16, 2020)

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When will the Judge issue a ruling regarding the Motion to Dismiss?

  • This Month

    Votes: 67 15.3%
  • Next Month

    Votes: 52 11.9%
  • This Year

    Votes: 71 16.2%
  • Next Year

    Votes: 146 33.4%
  • Whenever he issues an update to the sanctions

    Votes: 101 23.1%

  • Total voters
    437
There's absolutely nothing wrong with pro se being an option for the desperate, however it rose out of a culture that was not mired in lawfare as ours now is. People simply didn't go around suing as often as they do now.

It's one of the many many things that should be refined, but given the current state of politics, it's probably for the best to not touch it rather than let some assholes make it worse.
 
There's absolutely nothing wrong with pro se being an option for the desperate, however it rose out of a culture that was not mired in lawfare as ours now is. People simply didn't go around suing as often as they do now.

It's one of the many many things that should be refined, but given the current state of politics, it's probably for the best to not touch it rather than let some assholes make it worse.
At a minimum being Pro se should not automatically confer a tard shield the way it does now.
 
There's absolutely nothing wrong with pro se being an option for the desperate, however it rose out of a culture that was not mired in lawfare as ours now is. People simply didn't go around suing as often as they do now.

It's one of the many many things that should be refined, but given the current state of politics, it's probably for the best to not touch it rather than let some assholes make it worse.

There's a lot of that in our system, designed for a self-regulating society instead of an atomized, min-maxing bunch of special interests.

The quickest fix for pro se litigations is probably limiting the kind of judgements they can get. Filing pro se against a former roomate to get 3 months of back rent is probably fine, the other side can appear pro se and have the court settle things. The stakes are small and non-life ruining. It's probably also fine to file against the government, things like injunctions or FOIA that counter the pressure a state agency can bring against citizens with vastly fewer resources.

Being able to shut down businesses, get huge judgements, stifle free speech, and other major outcomes require the other side to lawyer up. It creates an automatic disparity in resources spent to pursue justice. If you're going to demand a serious expenditure of time and money from an opponent, you should either be capped on the damage you can do, or be held liable for the consequences of abusing the system.

There's an obvious balancing act that needs to happen, and I think the system has grown to the point where the numbers are skewed. Things like $10k limits or $75k thresholds of claimed damage are antiquated "large numbers" that haven't kept up with the cost of lawyers themselves. Greer's case is a classic example of leveraging the system against a small business that can't afford the expenditure to ward off a business-ending judgement. The current "fixes" (vexatious litigant designation, unreliable lawyer fee recovery, getting useful precedents) are not sufficient, and they require damage be done to the other party before they can be applied.

Someone needs to sit down and have a serious debate about the cost of accessible justice vs the damage it causes, but I bet the "100 guilty men go free rather than 1 innocent go to jail" system doesn't have much appetite for pragmatism.
 
There's absolutely nothing wrong with pro se being an option for the desperate, however it rose out of a culture that was not mired in lawfare as ours now is. People simply didn't go around suing as often as they do now.
I dunno, the genesis of the rules against barratry suggest that there was a lot of lawfare and stupid lawyer tricks going on over the centuries in Jolley Olde Englande. You would be hard-pressed to find any examples of maintenance (lawyers paying people to come up with spurious claims in the hope that they can BS their way to victory) today, even among sleazy lawyers.
 
The quickest fix for pro se litigations is probably limiting the kind of judgements they can get. Filing pro se against a former roomate to get 3 months of back rent is probably fine,
The quickest fixes for the ProSe problem would be
A. A much harsher review of ProSe/InFormaPauperis that requires the reviewing Judge to look at the PeoSe Plaintiff's body of litiginous work. And deny anything with even a wiff of gamesmanship, lawfare or hareasement. Force the Courts to agressively enforce the rules and tools they've been given.

B. Loser Pays attorney fees.
 
I'm not a legal expert or anything but I'd imagine they are being more lenient so there's less of a chance for him to claim the judge fucked him in an appeal.
"Sorry Your Honor, but I'm retarded" should never be grounds for appeal. Russ started this whole thing pro se, then got actual lawyers to give him an incredible win. He should not get to turn around and ask for training wheels.
 
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Supposedly the US legal system was designed to make it very easy to file a lawsuit because dueling was a really big problem in early America
Which is amusing because Russ says shit like this:
Suing is like Dueling.png
 
Which is amusing because Russ says shit like this:
View attachment 5744031
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
If his eggskull wasn't so cracked Russ would know under the dueling code women do not duel. They would have a champion who without a doubt would have finished the job the obstetrician started.
 
You still can't get blood from a turnip.
but you can squeeze it until it hurts
sure it won't pay for your lawyer costs, but you have to look at it from the other side too: it's a deterrent.
even a poorfag like russ would not enjoy reading "30% of total garnished and given to joshua moon" on his already small paycheck every month, now would he be happy seeing his rusty old car get reposessed by nulls debt collectors.
 
Which is amusing because Russ says shit like this:
View attachment 5744031
Didn't Russ recently have a cry about the adversarial nature of the legal system? I could be mistaken, but I have feeling he used that as a reason as to why he needs another 90 days to convince his former counsel to call Null a meanie poo poo head on his behalf.
 
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Which is amusing because Russ says shit like this:
View attachment 5744031
Russ lives in Nevada and doesn't realize sanctioned fighting is legal? He's never heard of a "mutual consent" state? If he is willing to duel instead of being a litigious faggot, I'll volunteer to be Kiwi Farms' champion.
 
Since you’re all planning your overhaul of the US litigation system, I take it Russell has submitted his documents perfectly and on time and is set to win a million dollars?
I fail to see why it takes a major loss to analyze how the legal system can be improved.
 
Russ lives in Nevada and doesn't realize sanctioned fighting is legal? He's never heard of a "mutual consent" state? If he is willing to duel instead of being a litigious faggot, I'll volunteer to be Kiwi Farms' champion.
Brother I will fight you for the chance to fight Russ. I think there's going to be a lot of competition lol
 
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