Did Nazi Germany have oil? Would Germany have curbed stomped everyone if they never invaded the Soviets? Tank sperging. Debate it all here.

[Fapcop]

You can’t negate an atom bomb by putting on a gas mask.

You can certainly negate an atom bomb with the possibility of turning Washington DC or all of London into a gassed out mass grave.

That’s the whole principle of MAD.

And again, this is in the very unlikely event that there still is a war on in 1945, which is very dubious if Barbarossa never happens.

 

[Male Idiot]

Guys I love Hitler as much as the next person, but the WW2 sperging is getting to train sperging levels and its getting hard to find the actual war updates here. Nikocado Avocado is from the Sharty's nightmares.

 

[Betonhaus]

Should we ask mods to seperate the WWII spergalerging to a new thread?

 

[Mr. Confederate Man]

Should we ask mods to seperate the WWII spergalerging to a new thread?

It’s a Deep Thoughts sort of topic

 

[Useful_Mistake]

It’s a Deep Thoughts sort of topic

What part of sperging about whether or not Hitler had oil constitutes a "deep thought" rather than a debate?

 

[Strix454]

Should we ask mods to seperate the WWII spergalerging to a new thread?

Specific sperg topics are:

1) Who had the best tank in WWII and any competitive national discussion about Tanks from WWII.
2) The effectiveness of the Strategic Bomber campaign by the US/UK in Europe in WWII

These are forever discussions. They never end and they will always be with us.

 

[Mr. Confederate Man]

What part of sperging about whether or not Hitler had oil constitutes a "deep thought" rather than a debate?

Good point. I forgot about the mass debates board

 

[Vesperus]

What part of sperging about whether or not Hitler had oil constitutes a "deep thought" rather than a debate?

Oil comes from deep underground, and we're thinking about it.

 

[Saleh]

I agree that Finland stalling for a bit is "some success", but aren't you forgetting something?
You know, some nation that wiped out most of the Russian army and occupied most of western USSR around the same time period?
That for example carried out the largest encirclement in history in the battle of Kiev that resulted in 700,000 casualties of which most where POVs? I would think that's at least "some success".

There was also a pocketing of Soviet troops in Smolensk and near Vyazma in that year. (both encirclements got the Germans more than 900,000 POWs) Still though, the USSR was the only nation on earth able to stay in the fight despite suffering such catastrophic losses in a very short amount of time.

 

[Based Trees]

The only European countries in modern history which had some success against Russia were Finland under Mannerheim and Poland under Pilsudski.

Do people legitimately think that Tsarist Russia/Soviet Union actually beat Germany during WWI? Because last time I checked: Tsarist Russia collapsed and the Soviet Union was forced to sign a worse deal after refusing to sign the German's first proposal. The Germans ultimately losing WWI doesn't matter because the Russians played no part in their defeat.


The lesson to learn from this is that you can defeat Russia by destroying them internally with civil strife and revolution.

 

[CaptainAutism69]

The lesson to learn from this is that you can defeat Russia by destroying them internally with civil strife and revolution.

And then they come back stronger and more dangerous

 

[Feline Supremacist]

the Soviet Union was forced to sign a worse deal after refusing to sign the German's first proposal.

That's not exactly what happened; Trotsky was the head of the negotiating delegation at Brest-Litovsk and wasn't following Lenin's instructions to conclude a deal quickly and he ended up having to replace him, and made sure the USSR signed off on what Germany offered because the Civil War was already under way. It always stuck in Trotsky's caw and those of his followers but in retrospect Lenin was absolutely correct. 27 years later the Red Army not only beat Germany, it destroyed the Wehrmacht and took Berlin.

 

[Fapcop]

Lurkers from the other thread don't @ me. I am raring for some action right now, basically I go to work and when I come home I'm thinking about the SMO non-stop. This cannot be healthy. I need ukrops getting routed as much as I need my morning cigarette. My conscience tells me that I should continue praying for the Ukrainians even though I don't support them but deep down...

My endless gaping maw hungers for THD

I've gone to see a Russian Orthodox priest to ask about the war and his advice is to pray, and to understand that Ukrainians and Russians are ultimately brothers and that eventually this too shall pass. Our bishop is from Odessa even, so it makes me feel extra bad. It's like having a sick fetish you know is wrong but you keep entertaining it because it's exhilarating. How do I stop wanting THD?

Maybe a compromise solution? Pray for THD?

And by THD I mean the ultranationalists. Many in the Ukrainian army dont even speak Ukrainian but were more or less kidnapped by some commissars while going about their business.

That's not exactly what happened; Trotsky was the head of the negotiating delegation at Brest-Litovsk and wasn't following Lenin's instructions to conclude a deal quickly and he ended up having to replace him, and made sure the USSR signed off on what Germany offered because the Civil War was already under way. It always stuck in Trotsky's caw and those of his followers but in retrospect Lenin was absolutely correct. 27 years later the Red Army not only beat Germany, it destroyed the Wehrmacht and took Berlin.

Trotsky only pissed off the Germans by talking about everything BUT the treaty and delaying everything endlessly.

And of course, Russia got most of the territory that they had lost on paper back very soon afterwards as Germany and Austria-Hungary surrendered and the war in the west ended.

Not a huge fan of Lenin myself, but you can’t help but admire his genius here. Just like with the April theses, (and the NEP later on) he took an unpopular position because he clearly saw the situation for what it was, and staked all of his prestige and willpower into dragging the rest of the party kicking and screaming along.

 

[Michael Wade]

Speaking of Blinken, how can one man be so bloodthirsty actively gloating the death of Russian people and simmultaniously be like "P-please, don't use gendered language among the s-staff it might hurt somebody's feelings?"

View attachment 5754831
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How is this not demonic?

You know I was watching a Russian streamer called Iron_Sultan on twitch and he showed some videos of troops on the front. There was some guy in an active warzone with bullets flying and shells falling all around in a ruined building filming himself and saying that he was extremely happy and had the best job in the world. How do people attain this sort of psychological state? It's clear he's a battle-hardened vet but how can a man get used to such an environment, let alone enjoy what he's doing there? I feel like so many Russian volunteers clearly aren't motivated by money. What else can compel a man to put his life in danger and still be so happy and unperturbed? Is it ideology? Religion? What's keeping these troops going? I'm perplexed and I've spent two years in the army and I feel nothing there can prepare you for an actual conflict since you know you're not in danger.

A combination of having purpose and a righteous enemy to fight. There were reports of mental patients gaining sanity and helping people during the WW2 blitz because of the shared purpose of survival and comradeship.

I agree that Finland stalling for a bit is "some success", but aren't you forgetting something?
You know, some nation that wiped out most of the Russian army and occupied most of western USSR around the same time period?
That for example carried out the largest encirclement in history in the battle of Kiev that resulted in 700,000 casualties of which most where POVs? I would think that's at least "some success".

Finland as good as it was, prevailed in 1939 because they were going up against a Soviet army ravaged by the officer purge. Fins had Excellent leadership, but it's not hard to see how they drove off the might of the Soviet Union when they were fighting off badly equipped and trained zerg rushes on the daily.



Now the continuation war of WW2 was well fought but the fins failed to properly commit to the war effort when they took back their land. They got driven back quite a bit when the Russians came at them and it was no picnic. In both cases the fins only scraped by on accepting generous surrender terms. They would have been like Ukraine now if they haven't made an agreement with Russia, guaranteed.

 

[Fapcop]

Finland as good as it was, prevailed in 1939 because they were going up against a Soviet army ravaged by the officer purge. Fins had Excellent leadership, but it's not hard to see how they drove off the might of the Soviet Union when they were fighting off badly equipped and trained zerg rushes on the daily.

As well as the Finns did against the Soviets, let’s not forget that they actually lost.

 

[Yak-130 Mitten]

The entire finland thing-

The only reason why finnish army wasn't leveled in the first week was the supreme retardation of overall commanders of stavka in 1939, supported by even greater retardation of stalin. Initial plans assumed a pincer movement north of Lake Ladoga to encircle the mannerheim line and head for helsinki, with vyborg front being pinned down by a general offensive. But because they were retards and killed all their skilled generals and officers, soviets decided instead that a frontal assault would be an excellent idea, so they pulled 2/3rds of troops from the northern border, instead focusing them on the karelian isthmus, which went wonderfully, as we all know. Even despite initial successes, fins were pushed back daily, and the entire operation ended when they ran out of ammo and found out that ethernal anglo isn't your friend and will not help you in any way, especially with the norway campaign on the horizon. Imo the entirety of finland should have been annexed, would have spared them the northern front and siege of leningrad, but it's stavka we're talking about.

In the modern day, fins stating that they have a remote chance against russians is like skinny kid trying to start shit with a trained mma fighter. You might get a single surprise punch, after which you'll end with a pretty high dental services invoice. Their professional force is less than five thousand, which is about 10% of how many professional troops russia has in northern military district alone.

 

[Kane Lives]

Now the continuation war of WW2 was well fought but the fins failed to properly commit to the war effort when they took back their land. They got driven back quite a bit when the Russians came at them and it was no picnic. In both cases the fins only scraped by on accepting generous surrender terms. They would have been like Ukraine now if they haven't made an agreement with Russia, guaranteed.

The Finns probably had no real interest in actually annexing land beyond what they claim to be theirs, to be quite honest. And this little reluctance to not push any further than Leningrad probably counted in their favour when the USSR did push back and fucked their defense. Had they gone slashing and burning like the Germans did (a lot of the priceless relics outside St Petersburg were looted or trashed irrepairably), the Russians might have just annexed them entirely instead.

 

[SpergioLeonne]

My meta perspective is like this:

Germany was never going to be able to conquer the entire planet. How far they could go had everything to do with the disinterest of the rest of the world to intervene. Once they invaded France, people were worried that Hitler wasn’t going to stop with Lebensraum.

It was idiotic to commit so much to war on the western front when nobody would’ve interfered between Germany and Russia

 

[The Ugly One]

I just came here to post this.

My meta perspective is like this:

Germany was never going to be able to conquer the entire planet. How far they could go had everything to do with the disinterest of the rest of the world to intervene. Once they invaded France, people were worried that Hitler wasn’t going to stop with Lebensraum.

It was idiotic to commit so much to war on the western front when nobody would’ve interfered between Germany and Russia

This is a map of Europe in 1938. There is no path from Germany to the USSR through territories that France and Britain were not allied with.



Lebensraum wasn't about France. This is a prewar Nazi propaganda map. The red dots and splotches indicate ethnically German populations which Hitler intended to bring into his Reich.

 

[eatler]

I don’t know if this argument has been brought up but let’s say you have oil. What about the other important resources like metals. We were also discussing in the gun thread about how Germany didn’t really equip their entire army with semi autos and smgs on a large scale. I think US still mostly had the upper hand on that front.