Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

Because it's not about Ukraine per se, it's about Russia. Russia will not stop at Ukraine. This is something everyone in Eastern/Central Europe and most people in Western Europe knows and understands.
Hell, when the war started, I thought it would lead to a nuclear apocalypse, because I thought Kyiv would fall and the Russians wouldn't stop there; they'd march up to the Polish border and the Poles, not wanting Vatniks on their border, would counter-attack, triggering NATO's Article 5 and causing a nuclear war. That was before we all found out that Russia was weaker than we all thought.
 
Sweden Gripen Fighter Jets to Ukraine
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>I expect that already on Tuesday we will receive an invitation from the Prime Minister regarding a broad collection for the Gripen to Ukraine, says Demirok
>The center has long pushed for the plan to be sent to Ukraine, even before Sweden is admitted to NATO. All opposition parties have taken a positive stance, but the Social Democrats with the proviso that Sweden must first join NATO.
>When that happens, it's time to send plans, party leader Magdalena Andersson also said in a speech at Sergel's Square in Stockholm this weekend at a demonstration in support of Ukraine.
>The message from the government and Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson has been that they will take a position on the issue only after NATO entry.
>If there is anything we know about Ukraine, it is that air supremacy will mean everything to move the front. If we do not make a decision now, it is remarkable, says Muharrem Demirok.
>The Swedish Armed Forces have carried out a review of whether Sweden can send planes, but the conclusions are classified
https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/O8wx8A/trycket-okar-om-jas-till-ukraina
Gripens mean the Meteor 200 km air-to-air missile. :optimistic:
 
Another Jewish dude joins the "totally neutral bro" Russia-enjoyers club, by "interviewing" Tucker, the exact same way Tucker interviewed Putin - allowing all lies and propaganda to go unchallenged.
Great fucking job, Lex Fridman.
This cretin literally spent an hour grilling Destiny for being evil because he said nigger in his gamer distant past.
And yet, he has no criticisms of colonialism and annexations coupled with hundreds of thousands of dead people. NONE.
Where the fuck is the CIA lmao. Where's that famed glow? Investigate already all this enemy propaganda, retards.
 
Another Jewish dude joins the "totally neutral bro" Russia-enjoyers club, by "interviewing" Tucker, the exact same way Tucker interviewed Putin - allowing all lies and propaganda to go unchallenged.
Great fucking job, Lex Fridman.
This cretin literally spent an hour grilling Destiny for being evil because he said nigger in his gamer distant past.
And yet, he has no criticisms of colonialism and annexations coupled with hundreds of thousands of dead people. NONE.
Where the fuck is the CIA lmao. Where's that famed glow? Investigate already all this enemy propaganda, retards.
I am only barely familiar with Lex Fridman, but this interview was so bizarre. Lex did challenge Tucker on several points and was even incisive (for example, getting Tucker to admit to going too far trying to be unlike other journalists), and at times the interview was almost a conversation as each gave perspectives. But then Lex would let Tucker tell blatant falsehoods with no pushback or response at all. For example, Tucker casually claimed that people in Ukraine weren't allowed to speak Russian, and that's a valid reason Russia was mad ("attacking language"). This is completely preposterous—even Kyiv was largely Russian speaking up to 2022—but Lex just lets it slide without comment. (And it's not like Lex is unfamiliar with the politics of language; Tucker's comment was in response to Lex correctly noting that Zelenskyy chooses to publicly speak in Ukrainian rather than his native Russian.)

Lex and Tucker seriously entertain the outlandish theory that maybe Ukraine killed Navalny. As though Ukrainian agents are operating in Russia's arctic wasteland and infiltrating prisons from a tundra safehouse to kill the only Russian politician who credibly opposes their number one enemy.

And yeah there was none of the obvious questions such as, did Putin not choose to start this war which caused all this death and destruction? Doesn't that by itself make him kind of a bad guy? But Tucker shrugs on the question of whether Putin or Zelenskyy is worse.
 
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Lex and Tucker seriously entertain the outlandish theory that maybe Ukraine killed Navalny. As though Ukrainian agents are operating in Russia's arctic wasteland and infiltrating prisons from a tundra safehouse to kill the only Russian politician who credibly opposes their number one enemy.
Man, they never fail to come up with the most retarded takes imaginable.
For example, Tucker casually claimed that people in Ukraine weren't allowed to speak Russian, and that's a valid reason Russia was mad ("attacking language"). This is completely preposterous—even Kyiv was largely Russian speaking up to 2022—but Lex just lets it slide without comment. (And it's not like Lex is unfamiliar with the politics of language; Tucker's comment was in response to Lex correctly noting that Zelenskyy chooses to publicly speak in Ukrainian rather than his native Russian.)
Not only is this a lie, it stems from the efforts of Ukrainian government to keep Ukrainian language and culture alive after constant attempts of Russification throughout the centuries of mutual history. It's a defiance of Russia's imposed dominance.

These efforts to undermine Ukrainian national identity are supposed to allow Moscow to claim these people as their own, and thus the land they live on. Even dumbasses like Tucker here wouldn't be able to buy Russia's narrative about "little Russians" if they were all speaking Polish or something.
 
Russia invaded Ukraine because of NATO, but only because they did not want to wait until Ukraine became a member state they couldn't attack. That's literally it.
They invaded because they bought their own hype of Ukraine and its western allies being weak and then they were too bullheaded to pull back after the momentum died down.
 
Well, that's it fam; I just filled my bingo card for this war!

:story:

In all seriousness though, I've been waiting for all the drone surveillance & imaging in that place to come through with something really weird; this one certainly counts. I figure since so much of it is being recorded & watched by regular guys in trenches, chances would be good that some footage would scrape by the glownigger censors.
 
Well, that's it fam; I just filled my bingo card for this war!
View attachment 5764227
:story:

In all seriousness though, I've been waiting for all the drone surveillance & imaging in that place to come through with something really weird; this one certainly counts. I figure since so much of it is being recorded & watched by regular guys in trenches, chances would be good that some footage would scrape by the glownigger censors.
"Maybe ram it?" - ah, there's the famous Slavic spirit
 
I am only barely familiar with Lex Fridman, but this interview was so bizarre.
My theory is that these people want the money and fame associated with "interviewing" these powerful people. Obviously it's easy to notice that the Putin interview broke the web and there were hundreds if not thousands of articles and media created about its contents.
However, these powerful/important people are never going to face challenging interviewers. Zelensky himself only deals with Western shitlibs for example. He will never go and talk to Tucker, and he will never explain to the planet how these Russian propagandists are wrong. You will never see Z or his regime openly telling a hostile interviewer that a country can police a rebellious demographic that is seceding. It's always the people where you can lie about democracy and liberalism and how oppressed you are.
This is true for almost everyone. Tucker or Greenwald will never have anyone that's pro-Ukraine. Ever. If you challenge any of the themes "who cares who will govern a few provinces in eastern Ukraine", "how is it benefiting American citizens" and so on, you will never see an interview with Glenn. But Mearsheimer can come 3 times, of course.
It's the same shit everywhere in this "New Media". Sam Harris, a rather close figure to Lex Fridman, would never interview or podcast with people that are Trumpists, anti-vaxx, pro-Palestine, pro-Russia and so on. He will seethe against them, justified or not, for many hours, but he won't directly address their concerns, valid or not.
Everyone thinks that staying in their own shitty safety bubble where their ideas are unchallenged is somehow good. When in fact, it's idiotic and fragile.
 
Russia invaded Ukraine because of NATO, but only because they did not want to wait until Ukraine became a member state they couldn't attack. That's literally it.

I doubt most of the Russia simps or anti-Ukraine people even realize that Ukraine has INCREDIBLY fertile soil Russia badly wants and needs and that that was the more major factor in this war, just like Crimea's access to the Black Sea was the real reason Russia wanted it.

Morons will look at the Orange Revolution and mumble about CIA interference... you know who says that shit, baselessly? Fucking goddamn socialists about every commie regime. Every fucking Spaniard in a star beret says that shit about Cuba and Venezuela. America doesn't control other nations and the power and efficacy of the CIA and FBI is overstated as propaganda for Americans at home, the Orange Revolution was Ukrainians trying to leave the kleptocratic system that Russia surrounds itself with. People here point out Ukraine is corrupt too, and that's the point, Ukraine has been trying to clean up the corruption that Russia uses to exert influence.
Russia has repeatedly said they viewed the Orange Revolution as a coup and all that, so given the invasion I think it's worth just accepting this is how they view history. It helps explain a lot of Russia's behavior like wanting to negotiate with countries other than Ukraine to end the war, as they're not viewing it as Ukraine having any sovereignty over itself.

It sorta plays into the whole narrative that Russia is forcing the world into a "multipolar" world rather than a "unipolar" one ruled by the US. The Unipolar world honestly seems like a deranged fantasy to me since it'd mean the US was voluntarily choosing to have terrible trade deals and donating fortunes to other countries, but it honestly seems to be how many think the world works (or worked). Russia forcing a "multipolar" world, in the narrative, means just having countries other than the US doing the same and getting to boss around other countries and have vassal states.

I think Putin and Russia just viewed Ukraine as a sort of vassal state and when they saw it wasn't wanting to act subservient to Russia it was viewed as a betrayal. It was as though Ukrainians wanting to be able to work in the EU was akin to sleeping with the enemy. The multipolar world they envision is countries like Russia and China getting to have their own vassal states they can boss around as they please, so something like putting Ukraine in its place ends up feeling only natural for them.

Another Jewish dude joins the "totally neutral bro" Russia-enjoyers club, by "interviewing" Tucker, the exact same way Tucker interviewed Putin - allowing all lies and propaganda to go unchallenged.
Great fucking job, Lex Fridman.
This cretin literally spent an hour grilling Destiny for being evil because he said nigger in his gamer distant past.
And yet, he has no criticisms of colonialism and annexations coupled with hundreds of thousands of dead people. NONE.
Where the fuck is the CIA lmao. Where's that famed glow? Investigate already all this enemy propaganda, retards.
Tucker confuses the hell out of me. He was nice when talking about domestic issues regarding corruption in politics, immigration, infrastructure and so on, then gradually started to decide he was an expert on Eastern Europe while seeming to have zero interest in ever speaking to anyone that might be on the other side of the issues regarding the region. He's ended up shoving himself into a weird echo chamber where he's often repeating what you could read on RussiaToday.

Just comes across as so loony that he never attempts talking to those he might disagree with.
 
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Tucker confuses the hell out of me. He was nice when talking about domestic issues regarding corruption in politics, immigration, infrastructure and so on, then gradually started to decide he was an expert on Eastern Europe while seeming to have zero interest in ever speaking to anyone that might be on the other side of the issues regarding the region. He's ended up shoving himself into a weird echo chamber where he's often repeating what you could read on RussiaToday.
He is still generally OK on those subjects.
Good propaganda is carefully crafted and always comes from a core of truth. Only collapsing states resort to grug propaganda where they bash your head in if you disagree. The fact that he is correct about the border, that he is (largely) correct that the Biden family is deeply corrupt, that the intelligence agencies spy on American citizens quite enthusiastically and so on makes his takes on Ukraine seem more common sense to conservative normies.
It's often what you leave out of the discussion that matters. Or the way you approach the complex issues where everyone involved has a stake, like the Donbas or Gaza. where each side has legitimate concerns.
For example, Glen Greenwald recently moaned about NATO being constructed to limit and oppose Russia. "No, that's demented! It was created to oppose imperial USSR! Which has stopped existing decades ago."
OK Glen, but which state is the successor to the USSR in international law?
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So we should remove Russia from its place in the Security Council then?
Crickets, of course.
Or the moaning that the cold war was about communism, which is dead, together with the USSR.
Really, now?
Cold War was about spheres of influence. These ideologies were just a convenient XXth century cover, so we didn't have to acknowledge that Russia, China and the US are empires, and they still compete for influence, wealth and so on. It's so much better if it's about capitalism vs communism, isn't it?
Proven completely false by history and the irrelevance of China and Russia market economies, which did nothing to tame their expansionist appetites.
The real issue is that you cannot talk about any of this shit, anywhere in the mainstream.
If you're pro-Ukraine, you cannot bash liberalism or be openly nationalistic. I mean you can, but then the Western allies will contort into shame when Russia seethes that some dude fought with the Nazis against USSR. If you're pro-Russia, you have your own set of idiotic taboos that you cannot touch upon.
It's all so tiresome. And largely because of these lies, the conflict continues.
 
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Legal immigration should be made easier. That would end this whole border-jumping business and allow a more proper immigration path.
I think I saw an old talk by Milton Friedman of all people in that illegal immigrants come in and have to work making them a boon for the economy. Now this is obsolete as the administrative state and the church charities they fund try push unearned benefits on them, but still an illegal can be beneficial in a narrow way to governments and business. No direct costs for welfare (indirect costs via Federal or state funded charities don't matter to the cynical politician) and lower wages and costs for the business compared to a legal worker. Also migration to infinity boosts GDP in an apparently real, but ultimately fake way. The Israelite landlord is not too unhappy either.
Man, they never fail to come up with the most retarded takes imaginable.

Not only is this a lie, it stems from the efforts of Ukrainian government to keep Ukrainian language and culture alive after constant attempts of Russification throughout the centuries of mutual history. It's a defiance of Russia's imposed dominance.

These efforts to undermine Ukrainian national identity are supposed to allow Moscow to claim these people as their own, and thus the land they live on. Even dumbasses like Tucker here wouldn't be able to buy Russia's narrative about "little Russians" if they were all speaking Polish or something.
It's like the alleged persecution of the Ukrainian branch of the Russian Orthodox Church, where for every arrest of RO priest engaged in weapons dealing or spying, there are multiple murders of priests and attacks on churches of both Orthodox jurisdictions. There are so many Russian speaking Ukrainians fighting the Muscovite invader so they can be free. Countries are allowed to declare certain languages official and others secondary with official status, like with Ireland in respect of Gaelic and English or Mexico which gives all its languages equal status. 'Persecution of Russians' just one of the many, many bold face lies they tell so that those opposing them become flustered and just give up.

"Maybe ram it?" - ah, there's the famous Slavic spirit
There's not much of a safety culture there.
 
So apparently Putin is preparing to give some kind of public address, there's even a premiere at some theaters, it's apparently 3 hours long (?!), old man's ramblings are getting ridiculous. They're going to blast it on public screens everywhere they can, sides of the buildings etc, Big Brother style. It's more ridiculous than anything Orwell could've written at this point.
Might have something to do with Trannysistria, iirc they put up a show when officially annexing so-called DNR and LNR. Could be related to recent success on the front.
But hopefully it's just him stroking his ego while spouting pseudo-history.

There's been some news regarding Navalny. Apparently, his team was close to getting him out as part of exchange, for Putin's killer and spy currently serving sentence in Berlin. They've been working on it for two years, pulling every string they could, trying every possible connection in order to make it happen. They didn't want to say anything until it was over. Their theory is that Putin just had him killed out of spite.
Interesting fact, he was killed within like a week of Boris Nemtsov, who was assassinated February 27th.

Never could've imagined I'd witness so much injustice in my life, straight up fucked up shit. It's been a hard few years, and I'm afraid it's only going to get worse for the decent folk out there. Reality of it all is starting to really sink in.
 
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It's like the alleged persecution of the Ukrainian branch of the Russian Orthodox Church, where for every arrest of RO priest engaged in weapons dealing or spying, there are multiple murders of priests and attacks on churches of both Orthodox jurisdictions.
Among the priests tortured and murdered by Russia was Stepan Podolchak a couple of weeks ago:
priest1.png


Among his offenses was continuing to provide services in Ukrainian:
priest2.png


So tell me, Tucker, which side is "persecuting Christians"? Who is "attacking language"?

There's been some news regarding Navalny. Apparently, his team was close to getting him out as part of exchange, for Putin's killer and spy currently serving sentence in Berlin.
Article on Bloomberg (archive)

I'm only speculating, but it seemed to me that Putin's intent was to have Navalny stuck in a freezing prison with no medical care and instructions to the guards to rough him up now and then, and let nature take its course. So the timing of his death with any other events is coincidence; he was going to expire sooner or later. But I could be wrong and Putin directly ordered him killed that day for some reason.
 
Where the fuck is the CIA lmao. Where's that famed glow? Investigate already all this enemy propaganda, retards.
US psyops aren't actually that great, at least not lately. They also are in the process of massive cuts, ironically around the same time that Russian/Chinese hybrid operations are expanding.
 
We've got pro-Putin vatnik bloggers threaten people who wants to come to Navalny's funeral, saying shit like "you might be sent to SMO [war] if you come", and a bunch of vile shit.
These fuckers have completely lost the plot. Funeral is something sacred, and Navalny's worst offense is simply being politically opposed to the regime, he hasn't done anything to deserve this treatment. Putin might be untouchable, but they are not. Keep poking people who has nothing but despair and resentment left, see what happens.
 
I'm only speculating, but it seemed to me that Putin's intent was to have Navalny stuck in a freezing prison with no medical care and instructions to the guards to rough him up now and then, and let nature take its course. So the timing of his death with any other events is coincidence; he was going to expire sooner or later. But I could be wrong and Putin directly ordered him killed that day for some reason.
Vlad Vexler said in a video that Putin never gives any direct order to kill people. He always formulates such requests in a very encrypted and lawyer speak way. So instead of saying "You need to kill Navalny by date X", he'd have a room with multiple people and he'd say "You know Oppositzki is a problem. And we can't allow him to remain a problem so it'd be beneficial for us if you did something about it". The people in the room are then left to think and guess for themselves what he meant and they're supposed to do.

This has the benefit for Putin that no direct order can be traced back to him.

But it has the downside for Putin that sometimes things don't work out exactly like Putin needs or wants it. Boris Nemtzov was killed a few hundred meters from the Kremlin and Vlad Vexler postulates that Putin didn't want this to happen and his lackeys misunderstood the order he gave them. I assume the same happened here. He gave a vague order "Do something in the next year about this...", they went and now Navalny's dead.

I've read some people saying that this is pretty bad timing for the Kremlin, as the foreign news cycle was focused on his death instead of reporting on Avdijvka and telling how the Russian army is unstoppable, cutting him short of potential to slow down western aide. But it also made the elections bumpier. Let's be honest, Navalny wasn't really a threat to Putin's reelection, and dictatorships love and need smooth elections, expecially for their citizens so they can see that all other citizens also endorse Putin, keeping the illusion of his legitimacy up. But Navalny's death made protests much more likely.
 
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