- Joined
- Dec 19, 2022
It is kind of ironic how a bunch of unix-philosophy ideologues ended up creating the most bloated terminal text editor imaginable.
The Linux Thread - The Autist's OS of Choice
- Thread starter tehpope
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- Joined
- Mar 4, 2019
So, I decided to have a tinker, since I'm having a slow week. I backed up my work system and installed neon with the latest kde. Settings mostly survived. Plasma itself looks essentially the same as 5, which isn't surprising as this is mostly re-versioning their underlying libraries rather than "innovating" anything much. There are some niggles, but those are understandable. I will say that Wayland is nice for multi-monitor setups, but there is one huge, show-stopping problem that I simply cannot tolerate: It doesn't remember window positions across sessions. At all. This is a widely reported issue (including in this thread) and I can't understand why it's being treated as not important. My workflow requires windows to remember where I put them across sessions; having to re-organise my desktops every time I log in would be a fucking nightmare. There are probably other QoL problems that I've not encountered yet. This forced "upgrade" to wayland is going exactly the same way as the systemd "upgrade"; it presents itself as the solution to one or two small problems and then introduces a bunch of killer issues that look like they might never be resolved.
Time to RETVRN.
e: Oh yes, bunch of kwin settings no longer work, and xdg-open is obviously not going to work either. They couldn't even be bothered to shim it somehow.
e2: Now I've got windows incorrectly grabbing focus. Two IntelliJ windows open (quiet you), I switch from one to the other and click, the first keeps the focus and refuses to let go. This is definitely a wayland-related issue, as it never happened in years of using Xorg and has happened three times in the last half hour with wayland. I can apparently mitigate it by clicking out of the IDE entirely and then returning focus, but it keeps happening. What the fuck is this shit? e3 no, I tell a lie, I have to resize the first IDE window, click on the second, and then maximise the first again. Then wait for it to break again in 10 minutes or less. This is reaching windows 10 levels of retarded.
e4: The entire desktop is visibly chugging whenever I do anything more intensive than move the mouse slightly. I assume this is driver issues.
Final verdict: I forced it to default to X11 on boot, so at least my windows go where I want them to go again. There are still niggles and problems with Plasma 6. I am going to tolerate this until clocking off, then I'm going to fucking go back. I might try out MX.
Time to RETVRN.
e: Oh yes, bunch of kwin settings no longer work, and xdg-open is obviously not going to work either. They couldn't even be bothered to shim it somehow.
e2: Now I've got windows incorrectly grabbing focus. Two IntelliJ windows open (quiet you), I switch from one to the other and click, the first keeps the focus and refuses to let go. This is definitely a wayland-related issue, as it never happened in years of using Xorg and has happened three times in the last half hour with wayland. I can apparently mitigate it by clicking out of the IDE entirely and then returning focus, but it keeps happening. What the fuck is this shit? e3 no, I tell a lie, I have to resize the first IDE window, click on the second, and then maximise the first again. Then wait for it to break again in 10 minutes or less. This is reaching windows 10 levels of retarded.
e4: The entire desktop is visibly chugging whenever I do anything more intensive than move the mouse slightly. I assume this is driver issues.
Final verdict: I forced it to default to X11 on boot, so at least my windows go where I want them to go again. There are still niggles and problems with Plasma 6. I am going to tolerate this until clocking off, then I'm going to fucking go back. I might try out MX.
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- Joined
- Feb 16, 2022
So as a multi screen, NVIDIA user am I correct in thinking I should not touch Plasma 6 with a 10 ft barge pole?
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2019
It's Wayland causing the major issues, so far as I can tell. Plasma 6 on X11 is basically 5 with some weird regressions. But yes, don't upgrade until these bugs are worked out and demand X11 at all times.
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2018
Y'all need to accept window managers in your life. I know the abuse make you believe that but your 2D GUI software being completely changed around every few months to look like the latest and hottest from Redmond/Cupertino is neither normal nor productive. As long as there aren't new dimensions, there is no point to all this. There is only so many ways you can do the concept of "Icons", "Menus" and "Windows". Embrace more minimal software that is feature complete.
I do this every few years, and every time I get excited about finally getting into emacs (and lisp) until it's edge cases start to annoy me and the fact that it really does everything but none of it well and that things just aren't as well maintained as I'd like them to be. It also only awkwardly meshes with the rest of my system. Then I realize I don't really need 90% of what emacs does and can do the remaining 10% with a bunch of macros, scripts and small, well-written programs in a much smaller editor which is a lot more "grasp-able". I like the idea of emacs, I guess. I don't know. I know I'll try it again in a few years and come to the same conclusions. This has been going on for decades at this point.
Emacs is a virtual lisp machine, running lisp functions. If you look at it like that it really isn't a bloated editor, but really just a VM running many smaller programs on a common infrastructure. The idea isn't terrible, the thing is the linux ecosystem kind of already does that with a less obstruse language to boot.
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2022
Thanks. I do like Plasma so I’m hoping it all gets ironed out. Right now it just werks.
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2019
Same.
One last bug. Sometimes the priority of windows and the desktop seems to flip, so when I click on a window, the one behind it will get focus and come forwards. If there's no window there, the desktop itself gets focus, which means I can no longer interact with any windows. I have to switch to the console and switch back again (ctrl-alt-f1, ctrl-alt-f2) to get it to reset. This one is definitely a bug in plasma itself. I'll have to see if there's a report in about it.
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2015
If SDDM doesn't want to launch a coup on KDE6 after extended use, I might consider trying it out for shits and giggles. I just redid an i3 configuration to put all of my keybindings into their own separate modes, or keychords, so absolutely nothing conflicts. Rather satisfying.
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2023
The GNU project has always been very maximalist and everything they do reflects that. They want a GNU version of everything.
The minimalist community is more MIT license, suckless, plan 9, etc. They want the smallest systems they can design because they hate bloat and complexity.
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- Dec 28, 2014
emacs is EVERYTHING you gay bastard.
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- Mar 30, 2023
It does sound like that is the design philosophy that Azure Linux is trying to do. Microsoft is trying to trim it down as much as possible with the stated goals of reducing the attack profile so it won't be as vulnerable.
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- Sep 16, 2018
I'm going to laugh very hard if that means Microsoft will consider an init system for it that isn't systemd.
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- Dec 19, 2022
Not going to happen. Above all they want it to be compatible with the Linux ecosystem (The Embrace portion of Embrace, Extend, Extinguish), and that means it'll be systemd based. And once they've made it systemd-based, they won't really be able to go away from it, because systemd is really nice to manage and any alternative will be grognard garbage ripped out of 90s BSD code, because the Linux community are people who want something that just works on one side (and these people are all Team Systemd), or angry nerds nobody cares about, who are only content when their script-based init requires a two week debugging session every update and their hate-mail campaign succeeded in getting the developers of their favourite tiling WM to drop the plan to implement mouse support. And if Microsoft do go full Extend and make NTinit or whatever to compete directly with Red Hat, well, isn't that a good thing? You now have a reasonable alternative to systemd.
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- Sep 16, 2018
Hey, faggot. Dinit is neither of those things and also uses a similar declarative format to systemd's for service files in a fraction of the code and overall footprint. Stop pretending once again that everything non-systemd is SysV.
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Is it possible to use Vmware with on a host with alternatives to systemD?
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2018
As long as you know your way around a .service file it shouldn't be too difficult to adapt them to whatever other init / service manager of your choice that you may have experience with. Glossing over the Arch wiki reveals it's mostly just exec'ing a few daemons, which may or may not fork and require a PID file to keep track of.