Margaret Pless / idlediletante / Stan - Official Kiwi Farms Advertiser and Enthusiast Who Has Proudly Eaten Ass. Now Posting Her Tits to Own the Troons!

[Stan]

Men’s clubs. Men’s locker rooms. Men requesting same sex personal care in hospitals and nursing homes. Women need those as well. We can’t argue that we need troons out of the women’s loos when we are forcing men to accept us in their spaces. There needs to be balance and respect and boundaries. Women also need a space to just be around other women, the dynamic is different. Men need that too.

Men have and get all of those things already. (Troonery excepted, but I'm not going to defend that.)
Are women (who are not pooners) actually trying to use the men's locker room? Which "male space"(s) are being invaded by women? Can you provide me a specific example that doesn't involve pooners and their urinal fetish?
P.S. There's also a stronger argument for keeping TiFs out of the women's lockers because of the possibility of sexual assault. On the balance it is probably more likely that a girl or woman is assaulted by a man in a dress than it is for a man to get assaulted by a 5'1" doodlet. Not that I want the doodlets to go bugging men in the bathroom, ofc.

You know very well already that attempts to derail and mockingly dismiss the actual subject of the discussion do not work with me.

Look, I asked you to explain the "natural relationship between men and women" and you went off the rails with this ranting about affirmative action and NGOs, saying what you want changed instead of describing what you say is the 'natural' relationship between the sexes.

Like a real life gentlemen club, for example. Also, we get to exclude males we dislike, like trannies.

Youse guys' biggest problem is that you don't have a gentlemen's club where you can sip brandy and read the paper without any women around?
??? This is why MRAism is ridiculous. Women want equal protection under the law, and the men whine about 'divorce rape' and the absence of appropriate places to cosplay Sherlock Holmes.

The dismantling of Mens Sana in Corpore Sano genuine masculinity has hurt several male generations who have been endlessly been taught empathy and other feminine attributes are more desirable than strength and assertiveness.

Repeating your credo in Latin doesn't make it correct. It is not an objective fact that a healthy body = a healthy mind. There are plenty of horribly mentally ill people who are (or were) physically normal, or even good-looking. (See: Troons. Incels.) There are plenty of horribly disabled people whose minds are still sharp. (See: Stephen Hawking.) Your truism that the inside matches the outside, doesn't hold. You're still repackaging a Stoic idea and presenting it as objective truth.

I'm not sure why you think empathy and manliness are mutually exclusive traits. I just visited a male doctor today who exhibited empathy. Homicide detectives solving a murder have empathy for the victim's family. Jesus is a man, and he preached empathy. Many priests are men, and I don't think they can do their job without empathy either.
There's a balance to be had here, and I'm skeptical that you would agree to anything less than abolishing feminism entirely.

You want affirmative action dismantled? Say it loudly, cause I don't care what your reason is as long as we improve meritocracy some increments.
I know you will refuse to say it though. Being against affirmative action is a HUGE no-no for a progressive like you, and can be life-ruining if found out.

OK here's the reason to dismantle affirmative action: Bamboo ceiling. Asians face significant headwinds in higher ed because their achievements in math and STEM are less impressive to admissions committees and professors than the same SAT score would have been for a white applicant, to say nothing of a black one. Ceterus paribus, an Asian student has to perform better than a white one for the same academic recognition; and this is because (mostly white) people in positions of power here have a racial bias that
that Asians are "naturally" better at math, or playing musical instruments, or chemistry or engineering or whatever. That's bollocks, they just practice a lot more, and often as not have their parents actively jockeying them to study more due to class anxiety (i.e. Tiger parenting.)

Affirmative action was supposed to make admissions to higher education more fair, but it's not achieving that goal. It gave woke, white admissions committees the power to promote black and Hispanic applicants at the expense of Asian ones, while white students were mostly spared (that is, no particular edge, nor disadvantage in admissions.)

And I haven't even gotten into the warren of perfidy that is legacy admissions. That's some real rich white people skullduggery; where a college accepts your layabout child because you're an alumni and a donor.

Tl;dr: Some people have to work hard to get into Harvard, and some people cruise in there without even really trying, and it's nothing to do with merit.

The number of writers who can make that claim is vanishingly small across all of human history. Do you work in medical research? Do you build rockets?

Have you even watched "It's a Wonderful Life"?

Spoiler: plot summary

It's about an average guy (George Bailey) who had big aspirations to go to college, travel the world, and become a titan of industry; but circumstances conspire so that he never leaves his hometown and has to keep working at his Dad's old Building & Loan company out of a feeling of social obligation. Bailey is so trapped in his hometown that he doesn't even get to leave for his own honeymoon. After a mix-up involving a lost bank deposit, among other frustrations, George Bailey decides to kill himself.

An angel intervenes and George tells him he wished he had never been born, so the angel takes him to an alternate timeline where George never was born, where he learns that numerous small acts of righteousness and charity in his life made a huge difference in the lives of those around him. Basically, if not for George the town would have become a slum and his loved ones all lead stunted, sad lives. George wishes he could live again, and the angel takes him back to reality. George returns home to find that everyone in the town has chipped in to replace the lost bank deposit, and George is thankful for his wonderful life.

My desire in life has always been to help and make things better; to tikkun olam, to borrow a heeb word for it. That does not necessarily mean I need to win the Nobel Prize, or become a bitter old slumlord who steals other people's bank deposits, or conquer half the world. That is Caesar's stuff and it only lasts for this one lifetime.

Here is another heeb story to illustrate what I mean:
Perhaps you’ve heard the story of the Hasidic Rabbi Zusya who, as he lay crying on his deathbed, was queried by his disciples: “Why do you fear God’s judgement? You have lived life with the faith of Abraham. You have been as nurturing as Rachel. You have feared the Divine as Moses himself. Why do fear judgement?”

To which he responds: “In the coming world, they will not ask me ‘why were you not Moses?’ They will ask me: ‘Why were you not Zusya?”

It’s more to do with how the school system has changed from final exam focused to coursework focused.
https://archive.is/vgTon
This article is excusing the gap shutting duo g Covid lockdowns. Couple of choice quotes;
He said: 'It was down to teacher assessment favouring girls and also allocating lots of top grades to subjective subjects such as the performing and expressive arts and media studies, where excellence is more a matter of opinion.
'In exams, high marks earn top grades, so subjects where there are right answers such as maths and physics award the highest numbers.
'These are also subjects where boys greatly outnumber girls. Hence with exams, boys get more A*s. With teacher assessment, it is the girls.'
And;
Girls outperform boys in all nearly areas of educational attainment. This is especially the case when assessment is by teachers rather than by external examiners.
'The closing of the gender attainment gap was to be expected with the return of external marking of exams.

Saying the quiet part out loud there. Girls outperform boys but when it’s onjective marking the gap goes away. I’ve seen this happen over my lifetime: it suited me to do final exams, and I always loathed group work, but I saw how the system changed even over my time at school. During Covid there was no or very little subjective marking and it was all remote and the boys pulled level/ahead in objective subjects. If we really cared about educational achievement we’d be looking at ways to combine both learning styles to give high quality outcomes.

Are you seriously hanging all of this resolute conviction on something you read in the Daily Mail? The British tabloid so famous that even disinterested Amerikans like me know it's a tabloid?

 

[Turkroach Couple]

During Covid there was no or very little subjective marking and it was all remote and the boys pulled level/ahead in objective subjects.

Nah, I'm pretty sure all the zoom-zooms skipped class to watch skibidi toilet compilation #1134 on their tablets

 

[Otterly]

Are you seriously hanging all of this resolute conviction on something you read in the Daily Mail? The British tabloid so famous that even disinterested Amerikans like me know it's a tabloid?

They’re lefty academics being quoted. Bit sure do the source fallacy. Boys do better in numerate and objectively marked subjects

Which "male space"(s) are being invaded by women? Can you provide me a specific example that doesn't involve pooners and their urinal fetish?

The Boy Scouts. Forced to accept girls
Male only golf clubs.(Muirfield being an example, but basically all of them now) Forced to accept women
Male only Clubs (capital C.) . Forced to accept women.
And it goes the other way as well: the girl guides is now accepting boys who say they’re girls and seems to have a total disregard for safeguarding by allowing men who say they’re women to bunk room with girls. Total safeguarding failure that will see girls abused. Women who spoke out as leaders were canned. Hampstead ponds are now men, mixed and mixed instead of men, women and mixed. So it’s gone from each sex having a private space and a mixed space for those who want it to no women only anywhere.
We’ve had culturally sex segregated spaces for a very long time because we knew that women need privacy and safety, and each sex should have dignity in certain situations. Women’s group dynamics changes when a man is there and I’d imagine the opposite is true too. This boundary crossing helps no one but predators

 

[Stan]

The Boy Scouts. Forced to accept girls
Male only golf clubs.(Muirfield being an example, but basically all of them now) Forced to accept women
Male only Clubs (capital C.) . Forced to accept women.
And it goes the other way as well:

??? This is why MRAism is ridiculous. Women want equal protection under the law, and the men whine about 'divorce rape' and the absence of appropriate places to cosplay Sherlock Holmes. And the Boy Scouts are pozzed now!

 

[Gay Baby Jailer]

Youse guys' biggest problem is that you don't have a gentlemen's club where you can sip brandy and read the paper without any women around?

Aren't you the same SAHM who complains about how video games aren't inclusive enough before? bitch? What if I demanded more male representation in your knitting club or demanded nursing societies consult with an equal number of men before they made a decision. There's so many articles about how scientific language is too manly, how there's not enough women in male dominated fields, how video games are showing unrealistic standards. The idea that material could be pandering to men is directly offensive to you. Look at how many people were upset at the "tomboy fetish". I'm sorry you're just disgusted by men 24/7, maybe you should just go be a dyke with the rest of the DMZ. You guys are definitely right about one thing though, and that is that men have extremely low value in the dating market, which explains how you have a husband.

 

[Tablet County]

They’re lefty academics being quoted. Bit sure do the source fallacy.

Isn't it weird how she never actually engages with other people's arguments and finds little nitpicks and technicalities in order to throw out your points?

 

[KittyGremlin]

View attachment 5812479
Well, the jews start coming and they don't stop coming
Fed to my mouth and I stuck my fat tongue in
Didn't make sense not to lick their bums
You eat their sharts but your face gets numb

-Brown star by shit mouth

Hello, 911? I'd like to report a murder.

 

[AgendaPoster]

Look, I asked you to explain the "natural relationship between men and women" and you went off the rails with this ranting about affirmative action and NGOs, saying what you want changed instead of describing what you say is the 'natural' relationship between the sexes.

We don't know yet.
We must remove the external factors that attempt to shape the relationship between the sexes. I think males have inherent biological advantages in many ways, yes, and that's why I am not worried whatsoever about where the "dice will fall".
That does not imply superiority or that men should enslave and humiliate women, it's just ideally a first step towards a more organic social contract where the sexes are allowed to fit their best niches.

Youse guys' biggest problem is that you don't have a gentlemen's club where you can sip brandy and read the paper without any women around?

No, the problem is that I want to be exclusionary of others, and it's illegal.

OK here's the reason to dismantle affirmative action: Bamboo ceiling. Asians face significant headwinds in higher ed because their achievements in math and STEM

Sure thing, let them achieve math and STEM greatness. If we Europeans cannot compete, we do not deserve affirmative action.
Let the dice fall wherever they might, just remove the group protections.
I'm generally OK with whatever raises the racial consciousness of Europeans and forces them to band together, cause without that we are literally doomed
Competition is great.

My desire in life has always been to help and make things better; to tikkun olam, to borrow a heeb word for it.

Well, "better" is highly subjective.
We need to better the world with objective data-based pursuits. Not spiritual crap and absolutely not with liberalism/human rights lies.

 

[Teghern]

Isn't it weird how she never actually engages with other people's arguments and finds little nitpicks and technicalities in order to throw out your points?

I tried asking her about something benign and I just get blanked, some other guy calls her fat and dumb and he gets a line by line about how we're all incels who can't do anything but insult and belittle.
Clearly enjoys the humiliation aspect or wouldn't still be here, even the whamen hugbox has to be getting sick of her.

 

[Norbert the Tiger]

Welcome @Otterly, who always elevates the discourse!

I’m not sure how I would be able to tolerate this thread if I couldn’t put the tiresome, bitter old men like Norbert on permanent mute. Life’s too short for me to waste time reading his repetitive and derivative opinions.

Sadly, there are many users like Norbert, and so my ignore list is pretty long.

This insistence you do not read what I or others read and have us on ignore reminds me of the most recent outburst by ths lolcow named Shawn B who rants and raves and threatens the Union Pacific railroad. He has a thread on prospering grounds. In this video, he INSISTS he never reads any of the comments mocking him.

The sure Jan meme comes to mind.
That stated I do not think there are any posters quite like me but I am biased.

Calling men disposable might seem like some grand insult but to me it’s always the greatest compliment.

Men are disposable, until we are not. Both sexes are indispensable to humanity and this is what makes the feminist induced war between the genders so destructive.

Me: Men don't deserve a pass to slack off in school.
AP: *malding* "You FEMINISTS are drawing the knife towards the collective male carotid, and one day we will all snap and it won't be our fault, because you nagging FEMINISTS took our jobs!"

Women and girls are doing better than boys and men in school because they study harder, not because of affirmative action.

Doubtful. Academic standards have been dwindling for decades now and the teaching profession is overtly ideological. I can't blame young lads for being cynical and disinterested. English teachers are no longer teaching proper grammar, no longer teaching the great authors.

It’s more to do with how the school system has changed from final exam focused to coursework focused. et al

I just wanted to concur with your sentiment overall. The degradation of academic standards is an interesting one but is far too broad to be discussed at length here.

Are women (who are not pooners) actually trying to use the men's locker room? Which "male space"(s) are being invaded by women? Can you provide me a specific example that doesn't involve pooners and their urinal fetish?

Women have been invading men's spaces since the sixties. Law enforcement and the military should be male spaces precisely because, among other reasons, humans are sexually dimorphic species. It is ok to have a handful of female cops to do strip searches or talk to female victims and perpetrators but beyond that. The internet is flooded with examples where the female cop on the beat experiment has been shown to be a failure, and we are only beginning to see the bitter harvest from the absurd idea of having women in combat.
In addition to Otterly's list, I would also add The Citadel and VMI being ended by that Scotus decision. Funny how men (troons excepted) are not barging into Smith College and the like.

Affirmative action was supposed to make admissions to higher education more fair, but it's not achieving that goal. It gave woke, white admissions committees the power to promote black and Hispanic applicants at the expense of Asian ones, while white students were mostly spared (that is, no particular edge, nor disadvantage in admissions.) (emphasis added)

This is demonstrably false. It is incontestable that blacks and to a lesser extent Hispanics enjoyed a lesser extent than whites and Asians and whites, even white females, were denied admission they would otherwise have gained but for odious affirmative action policies. The SCOTUS decision is nice but actually lays a blue print for woke academic administrators to simply get around it by having BIPOC college applicants talk about how they are black and how that has affected them personally.

 

[Tablet County]

It is ok to have a handful of female cops to do strip searches

I wonder why

 

[Catch The Rainbow]

tikkun olam, to borrow a heeb word for it

lmao go fuck yourself, tikkun olam means repairing the world in God's image, IE promoting Jewish values not your liberal bullshit. You fornicated with naive Yeshivish men and married older men, that's the opposite of Jewish values. You led people astray and then talk about repairing the world?

Perhaps you’ve heard the story of the Hasidic Rabbi Zusya who, as he lay crying on his deathbed, was queried by his disciples: “Why do you fear God’s judgement? You have lived life with the faith of Abraham. You have been as nurturing as Rachel. You have feared the Divine as Moses himself. Why do fear judgement?”

To which he responds: “In the coming world, they will not ask me ‘why were you not Moses?’ They will ask me: ‘Why were you not Zusya?”

Rabbi Zusya acted like a righteous man who was careful in his conduct. You pretended to be interested in Judaism in order to prey on victims to fuck. When you die, they'll ask you "Why did you disguise yourself as a convert to seduce these naive men and eat their asses like a pig at the trough?"

Going off the pig theme, in Judaism a pig is considered the classic deceiver. It looks kosher because it has hooves and flaunts them, saying that it's kosher but when you investigate further, you discover that it's been lying about being kosher because it doesn't chew the cud. The external seemed ok but the internals are not Jewish, just like your "attempted conversion". You still attempt the same bullshit, bringing up stories about rabbis and pretending like you know Jewish culture despite being a complete fake.

The only way to accurately describe you is as חזירה זונה

 

[Norbert the Tiger]

I wonder why

Right, I am acknowledging women have a legitimate NICHE role in law enforcement in very specific contexts while correctly balking at women in law enforcement on the beat because it is such an incredibly foolhardy idea. That, as opposed to saying women should not be in law enforcement at all.....

 

[Anonymus Fluhre]

The right is pretty straightforward about wanting women like me out of the workforce and back in the kitchen, but baby or not the life of a SAHM doesn’t suit me.

You offer nothing to society and you offer nothing for the house so what good are you? You're stupid enough to think that a man wanting custody of his children so they don't get hurt is "white trash" so why would any one treat you with any amount of respect? You also have the ego to think you're better than others just because of your skin colour and sex, and because someone at a shitty news site no one reads accepted a blow job to publish your hit pieces and have those hit pieces cited on Wikipedia, a site no one trusts and can't be used in academic research because it's an automatic fail by any professor with half a brain. You also pretend to be Jewish apparently, something you've clearly shown to not know anything about or religions in general. Probably wanting to use it as shield like the Liberals who want to claim their Conservative to get into the paper like Patrick Tomlinson "Oh but I'm one of them so I can say how bad they are!". Bullshit. You're a lazy bitch looking for handouts in a society that will tell you to get off your ass and work. You want a free ride, lose some weight, find a better guy and get the fuck out North American and live in some socialist shit hole that may just give you the free money you seem to think you're owed.

 

[Begemot]

When you die, they'll ask you "Why did you disguise yourself as a convert to seduce these naive men and eat their asses like a pig at the trough?"

That's the best line of the Goddamn thread if we're being honest, lads.....

 

[AgendaPoster]

lmao go fuck yourself, tikkun olam means repairing the world in God's image, IE promoting Jewish values not your liberal bullshit. You fornicated with naive Yeshivish men and married older men, that's the opposite of Jewish values. You led people astray and then talk about repairing the world?

Before throwing the stone at Marge, remember that you refuse to implement a Sanhedrin and are in direct rebellion to God's Law and commandments, which you shrewdly attempt to find reasons to avoid.
Just like Marge.
Both of you return to me when you scored the first witch and trannycaust, and I'll consider not mocking your "spiritual" pursuits.

 

[Stan]

No, the problem is that I want to be exclusionary of others, and it's illegal.

lmao just get a Bond lair. Find your inner masculine supervillian chic and go build a mountain redoubt in the Caucasus; you were just telling me how much better men build buildings. If that tranny in PA is doing it so can you!

I'm generally OK with whatever raises the racial consciousness of Europeans and forces them to band together, cause without that we are literally doomed

that's the spirit.

Welcome @Otterly, who always elevates the discourse!

Yes welcome back handmaiden-crone Otterly are the asspats from this loser worth it?

Rabbi Zusya acted like a righteous man who was careful in his conduct. You pretended to be interested in Judaism in order to prey on victims to fuck. When you die, they'll ask you "Why did you disguise yourself as a convert to seduce these naive men and eat their asses like a pig at the trough?"

I wasn't pretending. I was intrigued by Judaism in college, I tried my best to practice it for a period out of college, and I still genuinely love it and admire you guys. I've just accepted something you probably wanted to hear: I admire you, but I can't be one of you. That said, your Torah is my Old Testament, and I'm allowed to admire it, aren't I?

*angry, Jewish malding that I read your Jewish books and stuff*

Calm down the pig-and-mangosteen banner is a yahrzeit for Lowtax. I wrote a whole speech about his funeral, I'm still sorry he died. He should not have killed himself.

 

[Shidoen]

@Stan how does it feel your daughter may or may not grow up to be a Pick-Me considering your current behavior?

 

[Gay Baby Jailer]

Yes welcome back handmaiden-crone Otterly are the asspats from this loser worth it?

Damn and this piece of shit @Stan is going to talk about bad faith?

 

[Friend of Dorothy Parker]

Men’s clubs. Men’s locker rooms. Men requesting same sex personal care in hospitals and nursing homes. Women need those as well. We can’t argue that we need troons out of the women’s loos when we are forcing men to accept us in their spaces. There needs to be balance and respect and boundaries. Women also need a space to just be around other women, the dynamic is different. Men need that too.

Where are you (rhetorical; iirc youre in the dreaded Bri'ain, or thereabouts) that you don't have men's clubs, men's activities, or men's locker rooms? All of those exist.

The reason for opening up spaces like the Board room or the golf club is that there is no rational reason for excluding women from them. Golf and business aren't in themselves premised on sex-based interests or some kind of emotional connection that benefits from exclusion. In addition, golf (and tennis, etc.) clubs that permit both sexes still have separate ladies' and mens' leagues (or also offer mixed leagues in addition, as a choice) and facilities, and in some cases sex-specific physical social spaces.

Men excluding women from objectively sex-neutral-topic "spaces" has historically- and affirmatively, deliberately, and/or intentionally - broadly hindered women in their ability to advance in the world; the inverse is not broadly true.

(And as for same-sex personal care in hospitals/nursing homes, if that's an issue for men, the answer is that more men should go into the fields that provide it; there are no hard, sex-based barriers to men being nurses or CNAs or similar.)

It need not be "only all the same is acceptable." But rejecting that extreme doesn't lead to the inevitable conclusion that all sex-based partitioning is equally valid. A couple of generations ago you would not have had the opportunity to do the work you do. Do you think your presence in the male-dominated field of scientific research [iirc] is unjust? Should you be excluded from the lab because your gonads (even if cloaked in humble middle-aged hippie shapelessness) are disruptive or inhibit good male camaraderie? Should you be considered an unworthy token because of your sex?

Ladies' sewing circles don't thwart men from achievement, and women's business networks don't keep qualified men in general out of plumb corporate positions. Even the existence of the relatively few powerful women who hire women exclusively (such as who? Idk) don't make it all-but-impossible for men to make a living. That's the historical and still-relevant difference. When women have hundreds of years of dominating all positions of public power disproportionately to their existence, and systematically, institutionally prevent men from having a snowball's chance of advancement, and when the ethos is that men have no place in public society, then it's maybe approaching analogy. But that's not how it is across the board, not even close. And I say that as a woman who has enjoyed some measure of success in some very macho areas, and long before present-day chaos & confusion. Some shit I dealt with was unnecessary, and that is borne out by the fact that today it's a lot easier to succeed as a woman in those areas than it used to be (35% as likely as a man; lot better than 10%), and yet the field hasn't suffered.

Tl; dr: agree that there are times and places for sex-specific membership/participation, but where those create institutional or fundamental inequities society-wide and serve only to keep an entire sex down or under thumb, or are premised on sweeping characterization that prevent individual merit from common consideration, they should have a higher hurdle for justification.

Both sexes are indispensable to humanity and this is what makes the feminist induced war between the genders so destructive.

The "war*" started with one sex arrogating to itself to decide what the other is capable of, and where they "belong."

*don't agree with the terminology as apt, but I'll use it since you did

Law enforcement and the military should be male spaces precisely because, among other reasons, humans are sexually dimorphic species. It is ok to have a handful of female cops to do strip searches or talk to female victims and perpetrators but beyond that.

[I saw your later comment that you think women should/could have a niche role in LE. Just a general comment that if that is what you think, maybe consider that your comment in the bit I quoted above suggests you think the opposite. My anecdote/ comment below relates to the bit quoted.].

I know a guy who was engaged in hostile foreign city combat and management (in the military) that at times involved building-to-building sweeps for insurgents and standing guard over women/children while the combat insurgents were being sought. In that particular arena, women soldiers were specifically valuable because of local societal taboos against the idea of male soldiers being alone with women civilians. Those roles were, if not so perilous as for the primarily male (afaik) solders doing the sweeping, still perilous, and potentially a lot more perilous than most of the military assignments in the last 30 years. And the women soldiers' presence in that situation enabled a lot of productive action. So instead of herpedederping about how women are not as x as men, how about fucking acknowledge and appreciate the role women actually played.

...And in that arena, yes, some of those women soldiers died or were wounded. But maybe if they didn't it was both partly because they were allowed to be there, and maybe partly because they brought some sense and skills to the role that were otherwise underepresented in the force. The (overwhelmingly male) soldiers doing the most brutal shit were absolutely key, no question, but without the women (as well as the many, many men in key "backfield" positions) they would have been much more vulnerable and would have died in greater numbers than they did.

In addition to Otterly's list, I would also add The Citadel and VMI being ended

They still exist. And the grads of them that I know aren't crying. They are adapting, as any good Darwinist - or realist -would do.