Russian Special Military Operation in the Ukraine - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

Garm said:
Macron gave an interview. Claims that Russia winning would be an existential threat to Europe.
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What's Spain's position in all this mess? I've never heard a peep out of them about any of this (or the past few decades for that matter). Does anyone even remember they're in NATO too?
 
Givi said:
Killing first responders is bad, no two ways about it. Firemen and paramedics can't be considered valid targets for a plethora of good reasons. There's not even THAT much of an incentive to do it - it's ghoulish shit at worst and at best you're making sure somebody who just had a 4 ton bomb and a building dropped on them is dead, which is of questionable value.
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Warfare is brutal and shitty. Killing those who can help the wounded is sound military strategy, as there will be less of the enemy population to draw militants from overall, and less of them left once the fighting does eventually stop.

The phrase "nits make lice" covers this, as uncomfortable as it is. Making any effort at all to limit civilian casualties is a luxury that modern warfare has granted mankind that we should probably be thankful for.
 
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BikeLock said:
Killing those who can help the wounded is sound military strategy, as there will be less of the enemy population to draw militants from overall, and less of them left once the fighting does eventually stop.
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TBH may as well fight like its a genocide then, if the idea is to just make the literal population plummet until nobody is left to push back
 
BikeLock said:
Do you want to actually "win", or fight forever? You don't have to kill them all, but killing enough of them so they can't effectively fight is sound strategy.
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I would think that crippling their ability to actually fight, IE attriting equipment and supplies, would be a far better option than decimating their male population
 
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geckogoy said:
I would think that crippling their ability to actually fight, IE attriting equipment and supplies, would be a far better option than decimating their male population
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Equipment and supplies tend to be attached to the male population. They have been hitting dumps when they can though, on both sides.

I'm not happy with targeting civilian first responders but it happens. A happy medium might be the fact that any facility of size I've been on had it's own FD/medical first response teams. Of course if you requisition civilian facilities in the middle of an urban area, you don't have that. Almost like there's a reason it's avoided usually
 
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geckogoy said:
I would think that crippling their ability to actually fight, IE attriting equipment and supplies, would be a far better option than decimating their male population
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By this logic Russia is effectively dismantling NATO without killing a single NATO soldier. They have already ran out of most of their ammo and equipment.
 
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Sister Miriam Godwinson said:
By this logic Russia is effectively dismantling NATO without killing a single NATO soldier. They have already ran out of most of their ammo and equipment.
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Yes, that would seem to serve their interest to do so. I would also think that actually would be a far easier, faster, and more humane way to end resistance in ukraine.
 
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BikeLock said:
Warfare is brutal and shitty. Killing those who can help the wounded is sound military strategy, as there will be less of the enemy population to draw militants from overall, and less of them left once the fighting does eventually stop.
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So does killing the children and torturing POWs to death in view of the enemy. The Comanche would round up noncombatants, tie them up, and throw them alive into a pyre, so their screams could terrify everyone around. In WW2, when the Japanese cut off women's breasts after murdering their children and raping them, then left hem to die in the street, it sent a very effective message to the Chinese population. If it hadn't been for Western intervention, the unrestricted rape, torture, and mutilation of Chinese civilians surely would have resulted in subjugating the mainland.

We don't fight that way in the West because we decided allowing the horrors of war go that extreme is monstrously evil, and we don't want to be evil. It's not because raping a woman, then tying her limbs to a pair of horses so she can be torn apart in front of villagers to convince them not to disobey doesn't work. It does work! It's because it's evil.
 
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geckogoy said:
Yes, that would seem to serve their interest to do so. I would also think that actually would be a far easier, faster, and more humane way to end resistance in ukraine.
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What would you like to see Russia do in pursuing that goal that they are not already doing?

Worth bearing in mind they're also not going to want to store up trouble for the future by having a large number of military men acting as insurgents after the peace. Arms will always find their way in even if tomorrow the Russians could destroy every single one the Ukrainians possess
 
Brahma said:
What would you like to see Russia do in pursuing that goal that they are not already doing?
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Nothing and I don't actually care if they win or lose, however massacring emergency responders doesn't serve that at all and is just a cunt move.

Brahma said:
Worth bearing in mind they're also not going to want to store up trouble for the future by having a large number of military men acting as insurgents after the peace
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See this is just retarded that is literal genocide talk. If you are going to do a genocide you need to actually do a genocide. Not shittily half do a genocide, galvanize everyone into hating you for generations, and fail to diminish the population to a low enough level where you would actually prevent the assumed resistance. Literally going to wind up making more resistance instead.
 
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SaidNoOneEver said:
What's Spain's position in all this mess? I've never heard a peep out of them about any of this (or the past few decades for that matter). Does anyone even remember they're in NATO too?
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Spain is the country where Islamic terrorism actually worked. Al Queda murdered ~135 on a train bombing and Spin then left the Coalition in Iraq and Afghanistan soon after.

They're easy to cow.
 
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White_N said:
And we know about 3 confirmed deaths of Tsunami battalion members out of 20 deaths named by Zelensky. Also, the Ukrainian authorities spoke about the death of one unnamed paramedic and rescuer. Who are the other 12 people?
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People who will have a tragic helicopter accident in a week or two. And probably a few totally inconspicuous travelers who will have a pretty little star placed on some fancy wall somewhere in memoriam. Just a guess of course.
 
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White_N said:
Okay, that's hilarious. Ukraine created a whole stage of a Russian polling station for a psyop about the horrors of elections in Russia, but they were too lazy to find the right uniform and at least change the scene a little bit before recording the second video.
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Them trying really hard not to slip out an Ukrainian accent is really funny. What the fuck is the point of threatening people to vote if you can just make bullshit ballots or anything of the sort? Let's get confrontational with people and hope this won't slip out during a time when everyone has phones.
 
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The Ugly One said:
We don't fight that way in the West because we decided allowing the horrors of war go that extreme is monstrously evil, and we don't want to be evil. It's not because raping a woman, then tying her limbs to a pair of horses so she can be torn apart in front of villagers to convince them not to disobey doesn't work. It does work! It's because it's evil.
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"We"

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en.wikipedia.org

Mahmudiyah rape and killings - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
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