Russian Special Military Operation in the Ukraine - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

Ignatius von Cistern said:
BTW all discussion of which alphabet is superior is pointless. It's just a tool and as all tools has a precision limit. neither latin nor cyrillic represent all of the sounds found in the language, you have to study the spoken language. yet there is no shortage of litrate people using either script. script reform fixes things temporarily. case in point modern russian with silent consonants etc.
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Alphabets are serious bizness though.

Case in point: Russia. The Bolsheviks just won power, there’s famine and a civil war brewing. One of the first things they do? ORTHOGRAPHY REFORM!

Goodbye B and O with a line through it and V with a tail. Thanks a lot Lunacharsky!
 
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Fapcop said:
Alphabets are serious bizness though.

Case in point: Russia. The Bolsheviks just won power, there’s famine and a civil war brewing. One of the first things they do? ORTHOGRAPHY REFORM!

Goodbye B and O with a line through it and V with a tail. Thanks a lot Lunacharsky!
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this was preceeded by decades of polemics on reform. I havent looked into it lately but chances are the pro-team backed the reds and were given the go-ahead. pre 1917 script is perfectly legible to a modern reader
 
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Ignatius von Cistern said:
BTW all discussion of which alphabet is superior is pointless. It's just a tool and as all tools has a precision limit. neither latin nor cyrillic represent all of the sounds found in the language, you have to study the spoken language. yet there is no shortage of litrate people using either script. script reform fixes things temporarily. case in point modern russian with silent consonants etc.
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But there's definitely alphabets that are better or worse at representing sounds, such as Hangul being near the bottom of the pile
 
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Betonhaus said:
But there's definitely alphabets that are better or worse at representing sounds, such as Hangul being near the bottom of the pile
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who says an alphabet has to be phoenetic at all? plenty of literate chinese people out there...this is my point discussion of whose alphabet is better quickly becomes about something else entirely.
 
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Fapcop said:
Imagine a game where every other NPC/PC isn’t a POC woman with a lesbian haircut.
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Your prehistoric tribal games suck ass because they don't have enough transgender lesbians in wheelchairs in them! I'm going to have my Twitterbros ratio you out of existence!
 
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Vipers can operate from highways, just equip them with drogue chutes for more safety margin. Are there any good roads in Ukraine would be the question.
 
jeff7989 said:
Vipers can operate from highways, just equip them with drogue chutes for more safety margin. Are there any good roads in Ukraine would be the question.
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Technically, but not really.

It’s not an ME109 or even MIG21. Sure it can take off and land, but these planes are pretty finicky and need maintenance, preferably climate controlled hangars, network and electricity access, etc.

The only way there’ll be F16s over Ukraine more than once, is if they’re based in Poland and Romania.
 
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jeff7989 said:
Vipers can operate from highways
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They weren't really designed for that and Eastern Europe is not famous for its quality roads.
Fapcop said:
The only way there’ll be F16s over Ukraine more than once, is if they’re based in Poland and Romania.
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I'm not so sure about that. Which NATO airbase is the closest to the front? The F-16s effective range with a combat loadout is about 500 kilometers, if I recall correctly. Ukraine has no tanker aircraft capable of refueling them.

Not that any of this matters. F-16s will not change a thing. Just another wunderwaffe pipe dream.
 
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1st lets question what airfields are left in Ukraine?,
will the Russians give them the courtesy to fly the F-16s so that Russians can score air to air or SAM kills or are they the no fun allowed type to just destroy the remaining airfields in Ukraine that will use them?
Are they the new or old model F-16s and what air to air missiles would they be given?
Putting the F-16s in Baltic countries is out of the question for easy annexation if they want to retaliate in kalingrad. Best guess is Poland and what action they will take if their airfields get destroyed hosting them to attack Russia? I think the 1000 K-2s and 250 Abrams still need to be fully ordered with fully trained troops.
More questions are how much Russian missiles are in stock to target these places that will host them?
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To effectievely operate F-16s, Ukraine would require the following:

1. Airfields capable of supporting these aircraft.
2. Wide array of weapons in high quantities.
3. Maintenance crews and equipment.
4. Trained, experienced pilots.
5. Air superiority over the front.
6. Tanker aircraft, so they can loiter near the front and provide close air support and combat air patrol.

Since none of these are really available the F-16s will only be able to carry out limited mission types. These will not be that different from those that are already being done by the remnants of the Ukrainian air force.
The F-16s are just replacements for planes already lost. For Russia they will be nothing more than a nuisance for a few a months, before they eventually get shot down.

blackjack101 said:
Best guess is Poland
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The closest Polish airfield is roughly 1000 kilometers (~600 miles) from the front. Same goes for the Romanian main airbase. The combat range of an F-16 is about half of this distance. The planes wouldn't make it to the front from Poland, or Romania with a payload worth a damn. The only way to extend the range would be aerial refueling. This is not available for Ukraine as of now. No one is talking about giving tankers to Ukraine, for now.
 
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Im kinda curious why propeller driven aircraft with big radar suites arent a thing. They can do bomb truck missions, provide air support and carry long range air to air missiles just fine and it seems like they would be vastly cheaper?
 
namelesstacotruck said:
Im kinda curious why propeller driven aircraft with big radar suites arent a thing. They can do bomb truck missions, provide air support and carry long range air to air missiles just fine and it seems like they would be vastly cheaper?
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No-one's flown propeller aircraft in combat since the Vietnam war. It's not just a single aircraft type, there has to be a training and logistics sweet associated with it and none exist. Everything is jet, except Tu-95 and that thing has a very narrow mission scope. So yeah in theory if a propeller type existed that could deliver payloads, it may be useful to some extent, but none are available. Plus we now have drones doing this type of work, which are even cheaper, so I don't see it happening.
 
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Just wanted to point your attention to this post, which is part 3 of 3.

(And a paid sub is well worth the money methinks)


What’s particularly interesting is that we get to see Russias PLANCHET-A system working.

It’s a real time data system that enables Russian units to coordinate fire support, advances, etc. in the field.

The article also touches on the negative effects of the Russian army reforms in the 2000’s (though sure, some positives also came from that) and how Russia is rebuilding their army and technological capabilities.

namelesstacotruck said:
Im kinda curious why propeller driven aircraft with big radar suites arent a thing. They can do bomb truck missions, provide air support and carry long range air to air missiles just fine and it seems like they would be vastly cheaper?
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They are a thing. Especially in third world countries. Like Egypt uses what is basically crop duster planes armed with some bombs in Sinai for example.

As for why not in Ukraine? Modern MANPADS and fighters. They are too slow.
 
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Fapcop said:
Did you really have to cram all those letters in there?
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Yes.

Ignatius von Cistern said:
No-one's flown propeller aircraft in combat since the Vietnam war.
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Factually wrong. During GWOT, coalition was fielding Embraer turboprops in areas with no anti air risk because of the increased loiter time, slower speeds and better ability to observe and engage enemy during CAS
 
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