Community Quiverfull Movement Lolcows - Starring the Duggars

[Free the Pedos]

It's not an excuse, but I do wonder how many of these horrorshow Mormons who abused/murdered their kids like Franke and Lori Daybell have some kind of serious mental illness. Shit like thinking your kids are demon-possed zombie or w/e definitely seems like something schizoeffective.

I also kinda doubt Mormons are great about properly identifying and treating mental illness, since I know their evangelical counterparts definitely aren't (stigma and ignorance about mental illness in conservative evangelical communities is still a huge problem and I've personally encountered people whose relatives told them they were possessed by demons and other crazy shit).

I’ve read that Utah has the highest rate of antidepressant rxs per capita, so take that as you will.

 

[Dr. Butt]

I’ve read that Utah has the highest rate of antidepressant rxs per capita, so take that as you will.

Traditional religious cultures are big on "ok you're sad, this pill, you take, problem solved, go back to normal now" and calling it a day. It's just the same "shut up and eat" mentality that we all remember from "the good old days" but with a chance that whatever pill is thrown at you will work.

 

[Android raptor]

Traditional religious cultures are big on "ok you're sad, this pill, you take, problem solved, go back to normal now" and calling it a day. It's just the same "shut up and eat" mentality that we all remember from "the good old days" but with a chance that whatever pill is thrown at you will work.

That doesn't seem to be the case with evangelicals here, the real hardcore ones tend to be skeptical of psychiatry and think Jesus is the answer to everything. I wonder if it's an area where Mormons differ from evangelicals?

 

[Dr. Butt]

That doesn't seem to be the case with evangelicals here, the real hardcore ones tend to be skeptical of psychiatry and think Jesus is the answer to everything. I wonder if it's an area where Mormons differ from evangelicals?

Mormons are massively image-conscious (keep sweet) compared to CoE or Catholics, for sure, but I'm not sure how they compare to Independent Baptists or SDA or other popular American ones.

 

[Tumbo II]

As an Orthodox Christian I'm of course no stranger to large families most of the families in my parish have 2 kids at minimum. However I continue to be amazed at how fundies and evangelicals put having children above everything else. Even when they obviously lack the ability to care for them adequately. not to mention the shocking disregard that many of these men have for their own wives and especially children. I suppose when everyone becomes their own Pope lots of crazy shit happens.

If anyone's interested Dan Vogel has done fantastic work on the origin of the BOM and the societal currents that Joseph Smith was exposed to that ultimately led to its creation.

 

[GainsGoblin]

As an Orthodox Christian I'm of course no stranger to large families most of the families in my parish have 2 kids at minimum however I continue to be amazed at how badly fundies and evangelicals put having children above everything else even when they obviously lack the ability to care for them adequately not to mention the shocking disregard that many of these men have for their own wives and especially children. I suppose when everyone becomes their own Pope lots of crazy shit happens.

But as an orthodox Christian, are you a stranger to punctuation?

 

[Tumbo II]

But as an orthodox Christian, are you a stranger to punctuation?

Sometimes I simply forget to go back and edit posts.

 

[Android raptor]

As an Orthodox Christian I'm of course no stranger to large families most of the families in my parish have 2 kids at minimum. However I continue to be amazed at how fundies and evangelicals put having children above everything else. Even when they obviously lack the ability to care for them adequately. not to mention the shocking disregard that many of these men have for their own wives and especially children. I suppose when everyone becomes their own Pope lots of crazy shit happens.

The lack of a clear authority is part of it for evangelicals. Not that there isn't plenty to criticize about catholics, but independent fundie Baptist churches easily become literal cults because there is no higher authority to keep churches in check like with catholics. Then you have influence of cults like IBLP, which dictates that women and children are beneath men and makes every man the leader of his own mini cult.

The quiverfull belief system is that people should have as many kids, as quickly.as possible and not worry about how to care for them all because God will provide or w/e. Not worrying about how they're going to care for all those kids is literally part of their belief system.

There's also the influence of books like To Train Up a Child, which is a literal child abuse how-to (that's where blanket training comes from).

 

[Second Missing Primarch]

Traditional religious cultures are big on "ok you're sad, this pill, you take, problem solved, go back to normal now" and calling it a day. It's just the same "shut up and eat" mentality that we all remember from "the good old days" but with a chance that whatever pill is thrown at you will work.

Depends on the people and the denomination, I think. I've known plenty of fundamentalist Christians who were okay with going to therapy and taking medications, but I've also known plenty of FCs who regarded those things as borderline heresy because using them meant you weren't relying on Jesus to make you better. Even in more moderate churches they tend to prefer counseling mental health patients "in-house" rather than telling them to go to a professional therapist.

 

[Pho Real]

I’ve read that Utah has the highest rate of antidepressant rxs per capita, so take that as you will.

Utah also happens to have a huge number of both adolescent and adult rehab/treatment centers for addiction, eating disorders, and general mental health issues. Those places likely dole out SSRIs like candy to both patients who need them and those who don’t. They’re cheap but the center can bill insurance for expensive “medication management.” The Mormons are heavily involved in the residential treatment industry so matter what their MH views they certainly benefit financially off it.

 

[often puzzled]

Going back to the Franke case as it relates to the current discussion:

Jodi Hildebrandt-- who's a therapist, though you can sometimes hear her call herself a psychologist-- was on whatever list the Mormon church maintains of therapists. She encountered clients when the couple went to their bishop and reported an issue. They then got referred to Hildebrandt, who has a pattern of splitting up marriages. She had been sanctioned before in the case of Adam Paul Steed, whose life was basically ruined by Jodi and her "counseling."

So, at least for these particular Mormons, counseling existed, but the therapists came with the church's seal of approval.

In her jail phone calls, she compares herself (and her perceived persecution) to Joseph Smith and Jesus, so she's a nutjob with a strong religious flavor. It doesn't excuse a single thing she did, but you can see how her interpretation of religion played into things. Because the Mormon church is patriarchal, an armchair psychologist might feel that she used the counseling angle to gain the power that she didn't have access to as a woman in the church.

 

[Tumbo II]

Going back to the Franke case as it relates to the current discussion:

Jodi Hildebrandt-- who's a therapist, though you can sometimes hear her call herself a psychologist-- was on whatever list the Mormon church maintains of therapists. She encountered clients when the couple went to their bishop and reported an issue. They then got referred to Hildebrandt, who has a pattern of splitting up marriages. She had been sanctioned before in the case of Adam Paul Steed, whose life was basically ruined by Jodi and her "counseling."

So, at least for these particular Mormons, counseling existed, but the therapists came with the church's seal of approval.

In her jail phone calls, she compares herself (and her perceived persecution) to Joseph Smith and Jesus, so she's a nutjob with a strong religious flavor. It doesn't excuse a single thing she did, but you can see how her interpretation of religion played into things. Because the Mormon church is patriarchal, an armchair psychologist might feel that she used the counseling angle to gain the power that she didn't have access to as a woman in the church.

I haven't looked deeply into the Frank case although I've been aware of it. Hopefully her license has been permanently revoked. especially in light of the criminal charges that have been brought against her because there's NO WAY someone like that should be a therapist.

 

[Android raptor]

A private Christian school in Palm Beach has canceled Autism Week activities, calling it "demonic"

 

[Flaming_Barghast]

A private Christian school in Palm Beach has canceled Autism Week activities, calling it "demonic"

That's a thing? Man we only had spirit week (which was extremely fun)
I'd feel so awkward with an autism week, unless it was just a private school for primarily autistic children.
It's very stupid that it was called satanic though. Weird, yes. Satanic, no.

 

[glass_houses]

That's a thing? Man we only had spirit week (which was extremely fun)
I'd feel so awkward with an autism week, unless it was just a private school for primarily autistic children.
It's very stupid that it was called satanic though. Weird, yes. Satanic, no.

Have you ever dealt with autists irl? They’re absolutely satanic.

 

[Android raptor]

That's a thing? Man we only had spirit week (which was extremely fun)
I'd feel so awkward with an autism week, unless it was just a private school for primarily autistic children.
It's very stupid that it was called satanic though. Weird, yes. Satanic, no.

It looks like it was basically an autism-themed spirit week i.e. one day kids were supposed to wear blue, another kids were supposed to wear fun hats, etc. It's apparently a pentecostal school so it's kind of amazing it was even initially allowed in the first place, given how no fun allowed pentecostals are.

 

[unwieldy_object]

Ruby Franke's diary was released a week ago. It came up on a random YT video for me, I'm having trouble finding the actual document but plenty of summaries are floating around. It was right for her to go to jail, but jesus fuck, I hope she spent some time in a psych ward before that. That woman has a severe mental illness, probably schizophrenia.

Franke's diary
I'm reading it right now and it's insane how she thinks that the kids have demons inside them.

 

[iSaidShhh]

Franke's diary
I'm reading it right now and it's insane how she thinks that the kids have demons inside them.

"R stole water, he was angry and looked like he wanted to fist up. I put my hands on his shoulders and told him I love him. I told him he has no idea what he's doing but I do I can help him. I told him to give your demon friend a message for me. I will not rest. I will not stop. I will not leave. I will fight him until the demon in you dies. I have the power of God. He will obey me. I beat Satan. I win." Then I looked R in the eyes and with power and authority. I commanded, Get out! Now! Go! R immediately smiled, cried, slumped, softened. The demon was gone, he left."

All of those kids are going to be fucked up, but it's going to be a miracle if this poor boy in particular has anything close to a normal life after this.

 

[unwieldy_object]

"R stole water, he was angry and looked like he wanted to fist up. I put my hands on his shoulders and told him I love him. I told him he has no idea what he's doing but I do I can help him. I told him to give your demon friend a message for me. I will not rest. I will not stop. I will not leave. I will fight him until the demon in you dies. I have the power of God. He will obey me. I beat Satan. I win." Then I looked R in the eyes and with power and authority. I commanded, Get out! Now! Go! R immediately smiled, cried, slumped, softened. The demon was gone, he left."

All of those kids are going to be fucked up, but it's going to be a miracle if this poor boy in particular has anything close to a normal life after this.

Spoiler

I've read it through now and there's tons more I could have screen shotted. I recommend you read the whole thing for yourselves as it's not a very long document and it spoilers what I presume is the violent parts.

 

[Android raptor]

This chick is straight up evil, but she also sounds literally psychotic what with thinking the kids literally have demons in them.

I guess the combination of religion and severe, untreated mental illness has once again resulted in horrific child abuse