Pokémon (Not-So) Griefing Thread - Scarlet and Violet Released with 10 Million Copies in First 3 Days in Buggy States

[Freelance Police]

Isn't Pokemon's scene full of cheaters like Wolfe? I heard there's a lot of scummy shit going on in competitive Pokemon whether it's the card games or the video games themselves. Pokemon Go's battle leagues have nothing, but cheaters (spamming 7 without even doing anything and seeing your roster before matches start).

I'm not familiar with the competitive scenes for Go or the card game but in terms of VGC absolutely. If you're curious about the scale of it all here's a xitter thread and a google doc going over samples of VGC players from Worlds 2022.
(xitter archive) (google doc archive)

It's honestly unsurprising to me though, the barrier of entry if you actually play with legitimate mons is incredibly high and can get pretty pricey if you need mons with moves that can only be obtained from previous games. It takes even longer if you're trying to get a legendary with perfect IV's, then you get to soft-reset for hours like a neanderthal. That's not to say the people cheating are in the right, but if I were a VGC tardbaby and I wanted a fighting chance at Worlds then I'd probably bite the bullet too. There's a pretty interesting video about all the bullshit you'd have to jump through to actually make a competitive team legitimately, maybe you'll find it interesting too.

 

[Celebrate Nite]

It's honestly unsurprising to me though, the barrier of entry if you actually play with legitimate mons is incredibly high and can get pretty pricey if you need mons with moves that can only be obtained from previous games. It takes even longer if you're trying to get a legendary with perfect IV's, then you get to soft-reset for hours like a neanderthal. That's not to say the people cheating are in the right, but if I were a VGC tardbaby and I wanted a fighting chance at Worlds then I'd probably bite the bullet too. There's a pretty interesting video about all the bullshit you'd have to jump through to actually make a competitive team legitimately, maybe you'll find it interesting too.

IVs were a mistake. At least with EVs there's that customization factor where you can make a tanky character with a high attack if you want to just for shits and giggles. But hidden stats are, were, and always will be gay. All Pokemon should be equal.

 

[Catgirl Fucker]

I'm not familiar with the competitive scenes for Go or the card game but in terms of VGC absolutely. If you're curious about the scale of it all here's a xitter thread and a google doc going over samples of VGC players from Worlds 2022.
(xitter archive) (google doc archive)

It's honestly unsurprising to me though, the barrier of entry if you actually play with legitimate mons is incredibly high and can get pretty pricey if you need mons with moves that can only be obtained from previous games. It takes even longer if you're trying to get a legendary with perfect IV's, then you get to soft-reset for hours like a neanderthal. That's not to say the people cheating are in the right, but if I were a VGC tardbaby and I wanted a fighting chance at Worlds then I'd probably bite the bullet too. There's a pretty interesting video about all the bullshit you'd have to jump through to actually make a competitive team legitimately, maybe you'll find it interesting too.

Doesn't help that they made it stupidly overcomplicated to migrate from older games. You also have to complete at least 1 game per generation and Gen 5 seems to be the bottleneck for my legitimate pokemon.

They want how much money for a glorified button that goes on your wrist for Pokemon GO? Yet they can't just sell a modern pokewalker to take gen 1-7 pokemon directly to pokemon bank?!

 

[6MillionCoofs]

Yet they can't just sell a modern pokewalker to take gen 1-7 pokemon directly to pokemon bank?!

Really I just want them to make something that allows you to Trade to Switch games without the use of bank.

I assume the Homebrew scene is already working on it.

 

[zyclonPD]

True, but from what I'm seeing the big cheaters in the Pokemon are protected by the community. TPC doesn't give two rat's asses about the rampant cheating in their games from what it looks like. I remember there was a some guy (possibly a furry) who was trying to expose Wolfe cheating with other people in events, but the community attacked him for trying to expose Wolfe.

I literally made a post about this several pages ago, the guy you are talking about is Verlisify, the reason he was attacked is because he is a liar and never posts proof of his claims and has made these claims unsubstantiated for multiple years.

Verlisify is a sperg who attacks anybody for anything and misconstrues anything to try to scrape subs and keep up a self inflated image of being the sole defender of the ethics in Pokémon tubing.

Just a sample of the spergery from just typing "verlisify Wolfe glick" in the search bar.
View attachment 5832312View attachment 5832313

I'm sure there are cheaters in competitive but you really shouldn't take the word of a literal furry animal fucking sperg that you can't remember the name of as Gospel and run with it.

 

[6MillionCoofs]

There are loads and Verlisify is right in that regards. However he cheats as well so the only thing you dhould do is laugh at him.

Barrier to entry is basically dead with you losing all the old Pokemon moves if you transfer so SV is real easy.

About the only issue is not being able to lower certain IVs.

 

[zyclonPD]

Barrier to entry is basically dead with you losing all the old Pokemon moves if you transfer so SV is real easy.

Yeah the point of having the old Pokémon is kind of gone with the move wipe. You aren't going to bring your event exclusive Wish chancey to modern games.

 

[6MillionCoofs]

Yeah the point of having the old Pokémon is kind of gone with the move wipe. You aren't going to bring your event exclusive Wish chancey to modern games.

Exactly. The tedium for perfectly stated Pokemon with one of a kind moves is gone. Because now the moves will match whatever the game allows. Which I am honestly ok with from a gameplay pov. Honestly I’m surprised they lasted this long having to put up with that.

 

[Kurohige]

True, but from what I'm seeing the big cheaters in the Pokemon are protected by the community. TPC doesn't give two rat's asses about the rampant cheating in their games from what it looks like. I remember there was a some guy (possibly a furry) who was trying to expose Wolfe cheating with other people in events, but the community attacked him for trying to expose Wolfe.

Ever since Ray Rizzo and the saga of the illegal Dream Ball Aegislash, cheating in Pokémon has become a lot more of a meme in the community.

With PKHeX succeeding Pokésav and PokéGen as a welcomed and cherished addition to competitive and even single player Pokémon, "cheating" is just jelly now to Pokémon's peanut butter; you'll be looked at like a foreigner if you expect it not to happen, and a sperg if it makes you whine and complain. If someone just doesn't do it because morals or circumstance, guess it's their preference.

 

[Computer Guardian]

Ever since Ray Rizzo and the saga of the illegal Dream Ball Aegislash, cheating in Pokémon has become a lot more of a meme in the community.

With PKHeX succeeding Pokésav and PokéGen as a welcomed and cherished addition to competitive and even single player Pokémon, "cheating" is just jelly now to Pokémon's peanut butter; you'll be looked at like a foreigner if you expect it not to happen, and a sperg if it makes you whine and complain. If someone just doesn't do it because morals or circumstance, guess it's their preference.

While I was reading this, I remembered that the guy who makes PKHeX was making twitter posts showing how people in the tournaments were using PKHeX to cheat, even though he made the thing. that lets them cheat. He's still posting about how people are still cheating at competitive pokemon , but I guess this time was different because the next person he covered related to it said something that was "offensive".

 

[Kurohige]

While I was reading this, I remembered that the guy who makes PKHeX was making twitter posts showing how people in the tournaments were using PKHeX to cheat, even though he made the thing. that lets them cheat. He's still posting about how people are still cheating at competitive pokemon , but I guess this time was different because the next person he covered related to it said something that was "offensive".

Not surprising that Pokémon is full of fags. Can't share source codes from your hacks. Can't use a save editor/generator to alter your file to prep for competitions (even when it's obviously within the rules).

Dudes are selfish and haughty.

 

[30+GameOvers]

That's pretty lame considering Gen4's dex is small and can't hold on it's own without the past Pokemon for support. I think the only other dex that's small compared to the others is Gen6 last i checked unless the last few games has small dex's too.

Gen5 was the last game that had a strong dex that could stand toe-to-toe with Gen1 and Gen2

I didn't mention the bugs, the awful cursed chibi aesthetics in the overworld(which sucked in Gen 6 and should have never came back), added non-whites in what might be the most pointless ESG addition of all time, ruined movesets(Toxic cannot be given to any non-poison Pokemon anymore, for example) and the game being made infinitely easier by merging affinity and friendship together, meaning you get special benefits like increased critical chance and chance to cure status ailment if you simply use a Pokemon for long enough. The game is also blatantly broken in places, something original DP never was.
It boggles the mind that there are simple fixes here that were made over 10 years ago with Platinum, and yet they didn't bother copying them. ORAS was somewhat more acceptable since the only major element that was missing was The Battle Frontier, here we are missing huge chunks of content.
I am so glad I kept all my copies of the games and have several consoles so that I can trade any Pokemon at any time between Gens 3-7. I pity the newer fans who will have to make do without certain Pokemon or have to cheat them in, it's just not the same(and neither is emulation, playing on real hardware will always be the best)

 

[Thiletonomics]

Ever since Ray Rizzo and the saga of the illegal Dream Ball Aegislash, cheating in Pokémon has become a lot more of a meme in the community.

With PKHeX succeeding Pokésav and PokéGen as a welcomed and cherished addition to competitive and even single player Pokémon, "cheating" is just jelly now to Pokémon's peanut butter; you'll be looked at like a foreigner if you expect it not to happen, and a sperg if it makes you whine and complain. If someone just doesn't do it because morals or circumstance, guess it's their preference.

I also remember that someone used a Beast Ball (I think) Porygon2 during VGC 2017, but no shitstorm came about that blatant cheating, so the community seems to have gone apathetic about it, for the most part.

 

[6MillionCoofs]

ORAS was somewhat more acceptable since the only major element that was missing was The Battle Frontier,

And people liking the Battle Frontier is only a recent thing and done fpr memes mostly. It’s not like it was a core part of the game or stuff that people liked as was the case with Platinums additions.

here we are missing huge chunks of content.
I am so glad I kept all my copies of the games and have several consoles so that I can trade any Pokemon at any time between Gens 3-7. I pity the newer fans who will have to make do without certain Pokemon or have to cheat them in,

In fairness, the Pokemon that people care about that are actually missing are mythicals and they’ve finally started adding those in easy to get ways. (Still waiting for it to be revealed that the SV event mythical goes bye bye when they take down the servers in a decade)

 

[Aljam]

Game freak continues to let me down as I'm so far removed from being the target demographic and can't even name an mons pass gen 6. Mega evolution was the best addition to the games. Z moves are fucking retarted. Ultra sun and ultra moon was the laziest mid gen addition ever. Legends arceus had some promise but they fucking blew it with not having more trainer encounters.

I can only enjoy Rom hacks and fan projects these days.

Pokemon clover is the most fun I've had with Pokemon in years. Kanye is the hardest gym leader I've ever faced in a Pokemon game and the difficulty curve in general in that game has me wanting to git gud.

I wish Nintendo would fucking stop trying to stifle fan projects and game freak would take ideas from the fan game community. It enrages me so God damn much how lazy they are and how unprepared they were when they made the switch to 3d.

Genius seniority should just make the fucking games. XD gale of darkness will always be my Pokemon goat

 

[30+GameOvers]

And people liking the Battle Frontier is only a recent thing and done fpr memes mostly

Battle Frontier was a pretty big deal, so much so that it had to be added into HGSS despite some staff complaining about it. Remember, this was basically the bulk of the new content added in third versions, once they stopped adding in Battle Frontier we stopped getting updated releases and we got "Ultra Changes" and DLC for the same price.
Battle Frontier is symbolic with Gamefreak's laziness, ORAS was the turning point for many players since they were actively not just making inferior titles but were unable to properly even remaster an older one. Then we got BDSP which was even worse.
Removal of Battle Frontier meant that GF was not focused on the core of the games or their fans anymore, they were chasing casual gamers and "kids who are too busy playing on their phones to care".
That aside, Battle Frontier in Gens 3/4 is easily one of the better parts of the entire franchise, just on replayability alone. If you couldn't hack it in any of the facilities there, well, I guess you were just a casual player. What separates men and boys is at least one 50 win ribbon, used without resorting to meta/smogon sets. If you got all the medals in the Battle Frontier? Now you're part of the elite. Countless hours that put you, and your team, to the test, meanwhile modern Pokemon doesn't even have a battle tower anymore, just shitty raids. All the grinding without any of the rewards or satisfaction.

 

[6MillionCoofs]

ORAS was the turning point for many players since they were actively not just making inferior titles but were unable to properly even remaster an older one.

Well yeah. Had nothing to do with a lack of a Battle Frontier. That had everything to do with all the changes and quality of life actively screwing with the design of the original game. And people noticed. To this day I’m surprised HGSS actually came out as it did considering.

Removal of Battle Frontier meant that GF was not focused on the core of the games or their fans anymore, they were chasing casual gamers and "kids who are too busy playing on their phones to care"

GF was always focused on the casual market. If anything the removal of stuff showed that they realised their core market was not big enough for them to waste the effort.

That aside, Battle Frontier in Gens 3/4 is easily one of the better parts of the entire franchise, just on replayability alone. If you couldn't hack it in any of the facilities there, well, I guess you were just a casual player.

Or you only had one save file and opps turns out your one of a kind mons had bad stats and there was no way to fix them. And you did not want to start over again.

Countless hours that put you, and your team, to the test, meanwhile modern Pokemon doesn't even have a battle tower anymore, just shitty raids. All the grinding without any of the rewards or satisfaction.

Still surprised that the second DLC in SV did not have one of those. It was like the only time in universe having one made sense.

 

[Party Hat Wurmple]

Game freak took an interesting topic about the morality of cockfighting and turned it into a binary discussion in which the side arguing in favor of freeing Pokemon was represented by comically evil villains who don't actually believe in their side of the argument. I think people would have had less of a problem with gen 5 trying to pull people into its story if it had a story worth telling.

You do know that was the point, right? You were NEVER meant to think Team Plasma has a point because sometimes evil faggots use morality as a weapon against you. Team Plasma DOESN'T have a point. They NEVER had a point. They were never meant to. The only person who believed their garbage was N and he was literally brainwashed. That's why all throughout Pokemon Black and White your MC and friends never once buy into Team Plasma's BS, because they know it's BS. Ghetsis' giving his big speech and Team Plasma beating a Munna immediately after wasn't a coincidence. It was intentional to let you know these guys are full of shit.

Doesn't help that they made it stupidly overcomplicated to migrate from older games. You also have to complete at least 1 game per generation and Gen 5 seems to be the bottleneck for my legitimate pokemon.

The reason the original Pokemon zeitgeist ended was because the inability to trade Pokemon from Gen 2 to Gen 3 completely broke kids out of the trance. The popularity was already fading but that was the straw that broke the camels back. Gen 3 sucks. That's why Pokemon fell in popularity, and it never recovered. It lost its original audience because of this and those were the people who spent the most money on it. It's ironic considering Ruby and Sapphire sold well, but it probably did more damage to the brand than arguably Scarlet and Violet ever could.

Why they would ever choose to replicate this issue and bottleneck again is beyond me.

On a side note, I personally don't like Gen 3 or it's Pokemon. I've done draft leagues with limited generations before with friends in weird formats where we're forced to use weaker Pokemon. Gen 3 mons are just noticeably overall weaker than any others outside of some usual suspects. Whereas for other generations we've found plenty of weaker Pokemon that turned out to be actual genuine problems and threats. There virtually none of those in Gen 3.

Gamefreak's laziness, ORAS was the turning point for many players since they were actively not just making inferior titles but were unable to properly even remaster an older one. Then we got BDSP which was even worse.
Removal of Battle Frontier meant that GF was not focused on the core of the games or their fans anymore, they were chasing casual gamers and "kids who are too busy playing on their phones to care".

I'm convinced they absolutely hate their older audience and always have after the mass exodus of devs in B&W, yet can't ignore they exist.

That being said, I don't get how anyone plays competitive outside of Showdown anymore.

 

[6MillionCoofs]

@Party Hat Wurmple

It gets especially strange why they’d replicate the Gen 3 issue when fixing that was the entire reason for remakes in the first place.

Programming in complicated ways for you to keep transfering up afterwards in IV and 5 was done so Gen 3 did not happen again.

It’s why I dislike Bank. I get it, no second slot so there has to ve an app to transfer V-VI because you can’t load into one game while accessing the other but I would honestly have preferred if they made a pgysical Pokemon Box type game that you could buy to do the transfering. Just for the eventual date when bank goes down.

 

[30+GameOvers]

GF was always focused on the casual market. If anything the removal of stuff showed that they realised their core market was not big enough for them to waste the effort.

Actually, during Gens 3-5 you could tell they were on top of their game as far as gameplay mechanics and competitive were concerned. They made sure to include interesting Pokemon, great moves that complement said Pokemon, add mechanics that change everything completely and in general seemed like they were in-tune with the more hardcore side of the fandom. Even when they removed Battle Frontier in Gen 5, they at least added PWT, one of their better additions to date and some great fanservice, not to mention flipping Double Battles on their head by introducing Triple and Rotation battles. Nothing like that has happened since and they even mocked the fans expecting PWT to come back in one of SwSh DLCs.
I disagree they were always pandering to casuals: These were games for kids, but it was clear they were catering to the more hardcore side of the fandom as well, especially in Gens 4 and 5 since they knew a lot of the kids who played their older titles were now adults and were ready for something harder than the singleplayer in the competitive side of things.

Gen 6 is where the rot really started. There were far less Pokemon introduced from that point on, much less moves, nothing other than your run of the mill Battle Tower clone, no new changes other than Fairies and Megas. The last one would continue to be a theme here, rather than actually trying to balance the metagame anymore they just add ridiculously powerful gimmicks and make sure that the new Pokemon overshadow the ones added in the previous gens. Gen 8 broke the camel's back and they couldn't even be bothered to test everything accordingly, leaving us with dexit and moveset cut. It's clear that now they are pandering to the casuals, well that and Masuda openly stating they were chasing the mobile phone market during Gen 6.


It didn't used to be this way, there was a time when anyone could play Pokemon and get a worthwhile experience, not just the casual audience and kantosoys that get pandered to more than anyone else. There was a whole lot of care and love put into these games that you might not have seen, but I sure have. It's only starting with Gen 6 that they changed course like this, and it has less to do with them "realizing their core market was not big enough for them to waste the effort", more like they just stopped caring, period. It had to hurt knowing that no matter what, people will buy your games for the name alone, so why bother putting in any effort? Last time Masuda did, people cried that they replaced Pikachu with an ice cream cone. Give the menchildren their yellow rodent and make some shitty tech demo, it will sell anyways. The franchise has followed this bottom of the barrel formula ever since, you can trace it back to how fans reacted to Masuda's "magnum opus" during Generation 5(and oh boy were they loud enough for him to hear. He made sure to Kanto pander ever since)