Greer v. Moon, No. 20-cv-00647 (D. Utah Sep. 16, 2020)

[Betonhaus]

If a sentence is grammatically ambiguous but one possible interpretation is completely insane, you go with the one that actually makes sense. "Unrepresented parties" and "counsel."

That's highly dependent on the reader having the context to recognize that the other meaning is really insane and not just dumb.

 

[Accept Only Substitutes]

*opens the door to the KF padded room and wonders how many autists it can contain*

The KF padded room is a TARDIS, it is infinitely bigger on the inside.

Mamma always told me that if you have nothing useful to say it's best to not say anything at all.

I agree, but if we all followed that rule most threads would quickly die out most of the time. That's good and bad. I like our current system, retards can be retarded, and intelligent people can yell at them. Because the population of retards and intellect people changes constantly.

 

[Belgians in the Congo]

The KF padded room is a TARD-IS, it is infinitely bigger on the inside.

Heh

 

[Accept Only Substitutes]

Heh

I wish I'd made that pun. I bow to your superior skills. Have this poor woman's

 

[AnOminous]

It's not unambiguous. You can't have "unrepresented counsel"......quit trying to make Greer-ish arguments

Well, it is ambiguous but ambiguities are resolved in favor of sanity. Incidentally, here's a better version of the rule from a judge in the Middle District of Florida (although it is called a "preference" maybe because magistrate judges really don't make their own rules the same way a full Article III judge does).

Also, it's not this judge's fault for the bad wording because it looks like the other magistrates with this rule/preference use the same language.

Courtroom Technology
Any party intending to use technology, including accessing the internet, shall consult with the Courtroom Deputy in advance.

 

[Your Starter for 10]

Of only that judge had written the 2nd amendment.

 

[Harvey Danger]

Somewhere, there is an admin looking at site analytics, wondering why two docket URLs in Utah and Florida have been getting hourly refreshed by a dozen users for the past 4 days.

 

[Napoleon III]

If you have an interesting idea; contribute and explain it fully. Otherwise, kill yourself.

I would like to steel-man this argument in a non-retarded way. I didn't before because I'm not a lawyer and so I'm arguing with the bits and pieces of legal theory and law I have picked up. But I think it is worth thinking about and defending against the possibility of, and Hardin thinks this too since he is responding to Greer's retarded filings so I can't be completely out of bounds.

Spoiler: Post about how legal system could reasonably decide to not follow a rule

I think the best arguments for some Utah court ruling that the transfer was improper is first that the 10th circuit did something it shouldn't have, and the other argument is the strangeness of this transfer order. I agree there isn't much value in discussing something like the courts just breaking the rules to fuck you over. But I think there is value in the second argument.

The problem that makes the transfer order so strange is the fact that it happened so late into the case. It also only happened because Greer failed to file any kind of a response. This is further complicated by the fact Greer is a Pro-Se litigant, and he asked for a stay specifically to get representation.

A court might look at a confusing and unusual rule about appealing the transfer as unfair and possibly contradictory. There are all kinds of rules about appeals and what you can and can't do and why. And some of these rules are not simple if x is true then this else that. Some of these rules have strange and unclear qualitative tests as to whether or not they apply. A court could reasonably decide to argue that while yes one rule says that there is no right to appeal, this other rule says there should be a right to appeal, and therefore with these contradictory instructions we choose the option that makes the case more normal and decide the transfer was improper.

This is not a simple case of just follow the rules and courts and especially higher courts have to make decisions in unclear circumstances. One could easily argue that courts should be flexible in their interpretation of the law in order to be more fair.


I'm not even saying this will happen or I agree with any of this either in this specific instance or in general. I simply want to point out what seems reasonably possible given the way courts seem to operate.

I think Hardin is absolutely correct to treat something like this as a reasonable possibility.

sorry for length

 

[PollyPissyPants]

can't you go shit up the regular greer thread then

No, we don’t want him there either. Let him try and watch @StinkySnack dispose of him accordingly.

 

[BULLY HUNTER_78]

No, we don’t want him there either. Let him try and watch @StinkySnack dispose of him accordingly.

What’s he gonna do? Cry to me in DMs again?

I would like to steel-man this argument in a non-retarded way. I didn't before because I'm not a lawyer and so I'm arguing with the bits and pieces of legal theory and law I have picked up. But I think it is worth thinking about and defending against the possibility of, and Hardin thinks this too since he is responding to Greer's retarded filings so I can't be completely out of bounds.

I welcome your posts, even as an admitted non-expert. You shouldn’t be looking for his approval just because he regularly posts filings. Think for yourself and come to your own conclusions.

 

[prolapsed_cranium]

Well, it is ambiguous but ambiguities are resolved in favor of sanity. Incidentally, here's a better version of the rule from a judge in the Middle District of Florida (although it is called a "preference" maybe because magistrate judges really don't make their own rules the same way a full Article III judge does).

Also, it's not this judge's fault for the bad wording because it looks like the other magistrates with this rule/preference use the same language.

Fucking google auto type.

Yes, it is unambiguous. To call it ambiguous is bordering on nonsensical

 

[ScooterL]

The problem that makes the transfer order so strange is the fact that it happened so late into the case.

Is it late, though, in terms of process steps? I know time has passed, but that's because Russell has spent over three years evading one of the early steps, proposing a schedule, which he's twice been ordered to do.

 

[Napoleon III]

Is it late, though, in terms of process steps? I know time has passed, but that's because Russell has spent over three years evading one of the early steps, proposing a schedule, which he's twice been ordered to do.

That is a point Hardin needs to make if this does go to appeal along with that Greer basically got a stay and didn't get lawyers because of the clusterfuck involving the transfer.

I welcome your posts, even as an admitted non-expert. You shouldn’t be looking for his approval just because he regularly posts filings. Think for yourself and come to your own conclusions.

I don't look for "approval" but I like to be cordial in my disagreements. I can see being quite rude to be funny or to make a point and get it into someone's head that they are wrong and stupid and should GO AWAY, but otherwise I think it is kind of homosexual.

@Useful_Mistake is a Janny-Nigger

I also think cordial disagreements are more useful for getting to a good answer.

Somewhere, there is an admin looking at site analytics, wondering why two docket URLs in Utah and Florida have been getting hourly refreshed by a dozen users for the past 4 days.

Considering the attack on Linux distributions was found with one guy noticing something taking longer I think we can say this is Real.

 

[Your Starter for 10]

Fucking google auto type.

Yes, it is unambiguous. To call it ambiguous is bordering on nonsensical

What if you didn't have breakfast this morning.

 

[Accept Only Substitutes]

Considering the attack on Linux distributions was found with one guy noticing something taking longer I think we can say this is Real.

Never underestimate the autism of IT professionals. Someone I know caused a multi-week panic of the entire IT department because he found some vulnerability in something or aanother.

Having said that, I doubt we're making that big a difference in their traffic. I doubt most people on these go to look for new documents often. Useful_Mistake and Nool are pretty quick on the ball with updates, so the average user doesn't have to attempt a DOS. People outside his threads don't care about the case, so they won't be going to look for documents.

I do think everyone is getting bored and overly silly because of it. Including myself! Come on Russ, do something *pokes with stick*

 

[AnOminous]

What if you didn't have breakfast this morning.

What if you didn't have autism for breakfast this morning?

 

[prolapsed_cranium]

What if you didn't have breakfast this morning.

I'd be hungry and you'd still be an illiterate nigger

 

[Weeb Slinger]

If Greer were in any way smart, he would immediately suspend all litigation in this direction, at which point this thread and others like it would devolve into autistic screeching about red cars.

 

[Sir Dank-a-Lot]

If Greer were in any way smart, he would immediately suspend all litigation in this direction, at which point this thread and others like it would devolved into autistic screeching about red cars.

There. Fixed it.

 

[not william stenchever]

at which point this thread and others like it would devolve into autistic screeching about red cars

Gorgutz told me the red ones go faster and I believe the boss because he could krump me just like that.