They are successful because they are cheap as fuck. That simple. It's why American companies buy their shitty steel, it's cheap AND terrible.
I am not talking about Temu, this is about raw material they sell to companies. I've welded it. It's all shit. That's not propaganda. Their QA is legitimately Terrible.
If they don't mind taking advice from the Americans, I suggest this.
What's the Chinese version of a wehraboo? A chinkaboo?
Chinkaboo, CCP shill, communist, wumao, I could go on. Arguing why Chinese shit is, in fact, shit, was not on my 2024 bingo card, but here we are.
Can it not be the case that Western companies are importing cheap Chinese steel precisely because it is cheap? Much like how western companies outsource their manufacturing because cheap manufacturers exist. There are high quality and low quality steel mills in China. However, corporate bean counters can not tell the difference between high and low quality products from their desks aside from price.
Bro... do you know how big a batch of steel is? You are suggesting they are fucking over their ENTIRE world wide export steel supply. This isn't putting parts together in a factory, it's mixing elements together in a vat, ratios. They are cheap and inept as fuck. As far back as the Great leap forward when Mao tried getting people to make steel in their backyard, it has SUCKED. And in the quantities they are making the shit steel, they wouldn't have the CAPACITY to make good shit. I'm not underestimating anything: their steel is shit, always have been, and they have shown no signs of change.
Again, there are so many steel mills in China and your perspective will be obviously skewed if you're only using Chinese steel procured by Western companies precisely because it's cheap. I've said my piece, don't think we will reach a consensus.
Baowu is the largest producer of steel in the world. If its garbage for us, its garbage for the chinks because its all made by the same sweatshop. They dont know how to make good steel. Period.
WEW LAD I don't think Chinese military gear is better than anyone elses, hell my name is ZTZ-99A, and I could tell you a few flaws with this tank that the Abrams doesn't have (No side protection, unsafe ammo storage), I'm not a Chinese shill, I just think their gear is neat.
major fail quote on my part lmao
There's literally no other commercial drone competition to DJI, they literally ARE the drone company of the world, Xiaomi, Huawei, etc produce some cheap phones sure, but they also produce really expensive flagship phones as well, and you're telling me every major shipping company is risking their entire company on having a ship sink because China is cheaper? And not because they're both cheaper and good?
"In 2015, Baowu was the second largest steel producer in the world measured by crude steel output, with an annual output of around 35 million tons (China's total steel production in 2015 was 803.8 million tons[6])"
I do have to ask then, why are you interested in Chinese tanks and shit? Admittedly I'm a little defensive because we are basically arguing over the T-14 Armata, a untested design that causes lots of internet ass hurt but actually hasn't seen combat (also the reason for this threads existence)
That was pretty kek lmao.
The drones are cute but nothing that couldn't be manufactured elsewhere. As for Huawei they were literally stopped from setting up shop in America due to being a national security threat. And yes, companies don't give a fuck if they can save a buck. That is manufacturing son.
Not by 2020, when they became the largest by volume. Read it again. Citation 31.
Chinese armor has quite a long, interesting, and varied history. Lot of experimental designs, differing design philosophies.
Mainly because I was fully onboard with "china bad lol" before actually doing some reading, then I started to be a PLA observer as a hobby, also their stuff is just different which is interesting, they don't follow Russian or NATO standards, and seemingly produce pretty good quality equipment and export it for cheap as well. I would say VT-4 Doesn't really compare to T-14 Armata, it's a much more standard tank design, and has basis in the T-72, it also has seen combat, being used by Nigeria in a counter insurgency role you can see it here (the ammo laid out is in Nigeria, the internal view is Thai though). It's also different because countries have actively evaluated the VT-4 and decided it's good enough, the T-14 is literally stuck in "it's being evaluated and will enter production any day now" for years.
My point there wasn't their overall size, it was the total steel produced by China overall vs what they produced.
So you're a... communist CCP Shill? You're not helping your case man.
Counter insurgency is not tank on tank fighting. That is fighting dudes in Toyota trucks. And the fact its based on the T-72, a tank that deserves to be retired at this point, is not helping your case that this thing is good in anything but a zerg swarm.
In 2015. You seem to forget that was 9 years ago. Even back then they were eating our lunch in terms of quantity. The damage the Chinks have done to the American steel industry is unforgivable.
No? PLA Observing is just doing research on the PLA, reading what comes out of China, etc. Doesn't have anything to do with my ideology and I'm not here to shill for China, I just like tanks and think Chinese AFVs are interesting.
Obviously it's not, but fighting an insurgency still means your tank has to hold up against at least RPG-7s, it being based on the T-72 doesn't mean it's exactly the same as the T-72, the stuff it shares with a T-72 would be the autoloader, main gun (which even then is modified), and not much else, the hull and turret are completely different, same with the engine, electronics, composites, ERA, etc. it does still have unsafe ammo storage though, which is to be heavily criticised, why China hasn't gone the way of the T-90 and moved the spare ammo to a rear bustle I'll never know.
Do you have any numbers on what Baowus percentage of total Chinese steel production per yer is?
Well fine then. It's a bit strange, but fine.
It is still a pig running on 2nd gen MBT DNA. Surviving a RPG 7 is not a accomplishment, that is a standard a Abrams is expected to survive and keep kicking ass with gusto. This thing would get ammo racked the moment some sand rat went at it from the side.
I know they are in fact the largest. And shit at what they do. They get away with it because they are fucking huge, like McDonald's, but steel.
It's not really, the only thing it shares in common with a 2nd gen MBT is the autoloader, which isn't really an issue, and yes surviving an RPG-7 isn't impressive, and yes, without FY-2SH side ERA it probably would get cooked from a side shot, in the same way an Abrams would be knocked out without TUSK (probably less violently, because the abrams has safer ammo storage, but crew would still be dead and the tank knocked out).
Unfortunately he hasn't released a video yet or done anything interesting, hopefully his Challenger 2 video comes out soon so we can shit on him again.
It's a pretty slow autoloader all things considered. And it has the ammo sitting right at the bottom, vulnerable to side hits and mines. A Abrams would have to get hit in the bustle with the door open to get the same kind of catastrophic explosion that I'd normal in a T-72 family tank. I'd take a side hit in a Abrams with a bit of shrapnel if it meant I didn't also blow up.
It's only affiliated with the T-72 in the most superficial way possible. That being the gun type and autoloader, which are still capable today and the elements of the suspension.
