Mega Rad Gun Thread

[Duke Nukem]

Its not a bad gun. it functions and has familiar controls. Unless congress cuts the armies budget its happening. they've bought 130,000 rifles, and have ~45 million rounds on order (IIRC 2 million a month) and are building whole new ammunition plant for the round.

The M4 was always intended for rear line duties but was shoved into front line service due to a lack of a alternative (mostly due to army politics blocking all replacement programs). The M4 was bought as a replacement for the M3 grease gun (issued until ~2000 or so) for vehicle crews, truck drivers and as a pistol replacement for MP's and so on.

This is a fair take, I don't know if the .277 Fury is going to pan out or be a regular thing but I can see it being a choice for special forces units or private military contractors who can afford it.

@Dean Pentel True I don't think it'll be a widespread thing for a while but yeah I don't think the caliber of people they're recruiting these days can take advantage of any new features that they couldn't with the M4 or other existing platforms. Maintenance is already an issue with simple weapons so I don't know if a specialized one with a huge price tag will fare that well. Plus that pressure looks dangerous and might wear barrels way more than .308 would.

 

[HumptiDouji]

Does anyone have an opinion on the SIG MCX Spear and the .277 Fury round?

I think that it's extremely retarded.

• Far more recoil, making rapid fire difficult at best.
• Far heavier ammo in smaller capacity magazines.
• Big and heavy.
• They want it short but still want the zippy fast 6.8mm, resulting in a whopping 85000psi chamber pressure which makes .50BMG blush.
• So ridiculously fucking loud and blasty as a result that a special new kind of suppressor is mandatory, making your 13.5" barreled carbine the length of a full length rifle anyway.
• Also this soaring high pressure means that it's going to erode the fuck out of your barrel in no time.
• Consider that last part when I remind you that the XM250 companion machinegun does not have a quick change barrel or any kind of forced air cooling feature.

This thing can have a magic scope and be able to defeat Lv.4 plates with ease at a distance, but that shit is kind of irrelevant when this rifle is awful for fire and maneuver, it's an obscene regression for CQB. (You can also ask yourself how commonplace Lv.4 plates would actually be, or how much of a difference they would make in reality.)
This stupid gun is a fever dream for delirious boomer top brass romanticizing the old marksmanship school of thought to a perverse degree, and the fact that the XM5 has both a conventional AR15 T-shaped charging handle in addition to an extra one on the left side of the receiver should make it very obvious just how much of a design by committee that this gun really is.

 

[ChampFantana]

I know others answered you but were you asking about the possibility of it being done at all or the possibility of it being done by a consumer/end-user?

I was mostly curious whether it could be done at all.

 

[Romulus augustulus]

and the fact that the XM5 has both a conventional AR15 T-shaped charging handle in addition to an extra one on the left side of the receiver should make it very obvious just how much of a design by committee that this gun really is.

originally it just had the side charger but they saw in trials that troops kept reaching for the T handle so that slapped on on there. SIG listened to the armies demands very well and build exactly what they wanted, and offered a good price.

 

[Seafarer]

originally it just had the side charger but they saw in trials that troops kept reaching for the T handle so that slapped on on there. SIG listened to the armies demands very well and build exactly what they wanted, and offered a good price.

Kinda reminds me of when Germany wanted a semi-auto during WW2 but their requirements for such a rifle were absurdly complicated, including that it be able to function as a bolt-action (and the one rifle that fulfilled all the requirements lost out to one that ignored some of them while still being overly complicated).

 

[AGPinochet]

When the J boys quit hopping off the porch my man.

They STILL be turning Gaza into Zaza

What's up with the second sight right behind the Hydra mount?

Thermal. Everyone in SF loves thermal. Thermal is good, Thermal allows you to shoot dem der ayrabs before dem ayrabs even know you are there.

Does anyone have an opinion on the SIG MCX Spear and the .277 Fury round? Personally I don't think it's going to pan out but I've been wrong before.

Heavy, expensive, more recoil, literally nobody else uses the 6.8 cartridge (not even the Marines) and nobody really seems to be in a rush to adopt it. Not an insignificant chance that it turns out to be M14 2.0 and we'll just keep the smart scope. The gun can't pen NIJ Spec Level IV plates at any meaningful distance without tungsten ammunition (which will never be mass issued)

Also Ukraine has shown us that we got it right with SCHV (Small Caliber High Velocity) back in the 60's. Dudes in the trenches on the Avdiivka front are not taking well aimed shots at enemies they can't see unless they have thermal, they are spraying mag after mag on full auto while chucking grenades as fast as they can pull the pins.




Indigenous members of MACV-SOG's RT Illinois with an early version of the "Death Machine" ammunition backpack. Presumably they found working with modified ammunition crates and cans much easier


Macchi Lauro B1 in 9x21mm (9x19 but with a longer OAL due to retarded European laws

The power of the US Navy (this is said to be the commander of the USS John McCain)


SR-2 Veresk


CornerShot but made by Azeris instead of Jews and utilizing AKS-74u instead of Glock


Concept for a stock retention system for AR stocks when attached to AK's by Artist 7N39AP


A guy is working on a Pseudo-VSS using MAC Parts, very convenient timing with the ATF Eforms overhaul leading to 1 week approval times

 

[Smoke Manmuscle]

Now there's .338 Spectre which I think is maybe a necked 10mm that takes 8.6 bullets. Basically a subsonic only version of 8.6, which is the main reason people are even interested in 8.6. The cool thing with .338 Spectre is that it fits in the AR-15, not a heavy ass AR-10 or medium action bolt gun.

I'm pretty sure the deal with 6mm Sneedmore is that it is basically a .243, but with a faster twist rate for heavier boolets. This is what a lot of "new" calibers are rn, like I think the .22 Sneed is supposed to replace the .22-250 because the guns that will be built for it are able to stabilize something heavier than what normal .22-250 is. You could buy a faster twist barrel chambered in your old fudd caliber and shoot weighty pills. The reason that calibers aren't normally sold with a huge variance in barrel twist is that there's a 50/50 chance you'll get shit accuracy unless you know the boolet weight and twist rate, if you're LGS even stocks the weight you need. Better just to shoot black powder like a felon.

.22 Creed is going to have an uphill struggle as in the past 5-7 years most of the manufacturers have started offering 22-250 with fast twist rates in response to people loading .223 bullets in 22-250. Heck every offering from browning comes with a 1:8 twist today.

 

[BallsMcLongDong]

https://www.tacticalimports.ca/nonrestricted-firearms-c-1/sr410-p-682.html
It is with a heavy heart I got as far as the .ca domain and realized I can't own this because they don't import to the US, Such a neat little blaster. Fixes the problem of revolving rifles and shotguns here in the US, which is chamber flash on your delicate foregrip hands.
I'd love to strap this thing in a leg holster and go to town. But alas, Maybe someday the US barrel length laws will stop being retarded and one of our companies will make a revolving long gun platform with the chamber shields.

 

[Falcos_Commisar]

Is this one of the new production models or a used one?

New production, probably one of the last batches to come out of the old Massachusetts plant.

I think a heavier rifle with less ammo carrying capability (plus heavier ammo), one that has more recoil than the M4, and a rifle with a more complicated maintenance schedule is not the winner the US Army hopes it'll be. Definitely not with the current crop of recruits available. Even if the optic reliably operates as advertised (and the soldiers aren't fucking up their shots by flinching), the US military doesn't rely on precision marksmanship from each soldier; fire and maneuver are still how they train people to win battles with small arms

Exactly. The rifle is a massive step back from the M-16/M-4 series and every other NATO rifle made after the 1960s.

I remember when I first assembled a rifle in 6mm ARC I was operating on the "it's better than Grendel" perspective. One of my friends tried damn hard to convince me to just go with Grendel.

I wish I had because what I wanted was a rifle that used a bullet at least twice as heavy as common 5.56 rounds that could engage targets out to about 600m but didn't weigh as much as an AR-10. The Grendel can do that just fine and more people make ammo for it. The ARC is superior once one moves into LR distances but turns out I couldn't care less since I don't want to use AR platforms for LR shooting. Oh well, live and learn.

The 6mm bullet space seems to have a new offering show up every 1-3 years promising to be the WONDER CALIBER. Then reality hits and it's abandoned.

I think that it's extremely retarded.

• Far more recoil, making rapid fire difficult at best.
• Far heavier ammo in smaller capacity magazines.
• Big and heavy.
• They want it short but still want the zippy fast 6.8mm, resulting in a whopping 85000psi chamber pressure which makes .50BMG blush.
• So ridiculously fucking loud and blasty as a result that a special new kind of suppressor is mandatory, making your 13.5" barreled carbine the length of a full length rifle anyway.
• Also this soaring high pressure means that it's going to erode the fuck out of your barrel in no time.
• Consider that last part when I remind you that the XM250 companion machinegun does not have a quick change barrel or any kind of forced air cooling feature.

View attachment 5894187
View attachment 5894191

This thing can have a magic scope and be able to defeat Lv.4 plates with ease at a distance, but that shit is kind of irrelevant when this rifle is awful for fire and maneuver, it's an obscene regression for CQB. (You can also ask yourself how commonplace Lv.4 plates would actually be, or how much of a difference they would make in reality.)
This stupid gun is a fever dream for delirious boomer top brass romanticizing the old marksmanship school of thought to a perverse degree, and the fact that the XM5 has both a conventional AR15 T-shaped charging handle in addition to an extra one on the left side of the receiver should make it very obvious just how much of a design by committee that this gun really is.
View attachment 5894199

Good GOD that recoil unsuppressed is rough. Even suppressed and fired by a muscular gun bunny it's a bit jumpy.

Oh and if I remember correctly they aren't actually firing the full pressure ammo, just something the same as or a tiny bit hotter than ball 7.62x51mm.

The XM250 not having a QCB are forced air cooling system shows that the design team probably all died in an elevator accident and SIG went "well it's almost done, I'm sure the Army won't mind" and the US Army went "deerrrppp it's not a SAW so it's perfect"

Heavy, expensive, more recoil, literally nobody else uses the 6.8 cartridge (not even the Marines) and nobody really seems to be in a rush to adopt it. Not an insignificant chance that it turns out to be M14 2.0 and we'll just keep the smart scope. The gun can't pen NIJ Spec Level IV plates at any meaningful distance without tungsten ammunition (which will never be mass issued)

Also Ukraine has shown us that we got it right with SCHV (Small Caliber High Velocity) back in the 60's. Dudes in the trenches on the Avdiivka front are not taking well aimed shots at enemies they can't see unless they have thermal, they are spraying mag after mag on full auto while chucking grenades as fast as they can pull the pins

Oh yes. Footage from Ukraine shows both sides clearing trenches and strong points in full auto and firing full auto at diving drones.

I'm sure a caliber better then 5.56mm/5.45mm exists somewhere between 5.5mm and 6.5mm or so but it'll still be intermediate and not a moronic OMNI CALIBER.

If you want a 7.62x51/54mm replacement one probably exists between 7mm and 8mm.

A caliber for everything from a carbine to a GPMG/medium machine gun is stupid.

 

[Badungus Kabungus]

https://www.tacticalimports.ca/nonrestricted-firearms-c-1/sr410-p-682.html
It is with a heavy heart I got as far as the .ca domain and realized I can't own this because they don't import to the US, Such a neat little blaster. Fixes the problem of revolving rifles and shotguns here in the US, which is chamber flash on your delicate foregrip hands.
I'd love to strap this thing in a leg holster and go to town. But alas, Maybe someday the US barrel length laws will stop being retarded and one of our companies will make a revolving long gun platform with the chamber shields.

I'm constantly amazed at what the Canadians can get despite their shit ass gun laws.

https://www.gotenda.com/product/akdas-ubs-12-gen-3-under-barrel-12ga-shotgun/

 

[HodgePodgeRogerDodger]

Are Bakelite heat shields any good? Place I know for whatever reason is swimming in them and mags.

 

[BallsMcLongDong]

I'm constantly amazed at what the Canadians can get despite their shit ass gun laws.

I know. It's so ass backwards. Euro fucks don't get anywhere near the selection we have, but their barrel length laws and accessories are all under the assumption of "Okay, eh. Here's your new gun, I can see why you'd want it to be short. Anyway eh, those things are real fucking loud. Here's a free suppressor so you don't hurt anyone's hearing, eh? And attach a vertical foregrip to it so you can shoot more accurately."

 

[BallsMcLongDong]

Are Bakelite heat shields any good? Place I know for whatever reason is swimming in them and mags.

Never used the shields or mags, but have found plenty of bakelite shit around the property. While all the early plastic shit is rotted or sunbleached/cracking from exposure, all of the bakelite stuff looks brand new after a quick wash. Bakelite is wicked, wish we used it more than plastic.

 

[MrJokerRager]

The power of the US Navy (this is said to be the commander of the USS John McCain)

Exactly. The rifle is a massive step back from the M-16/M-4 series and every other NATO rifle made after the 1960s.

@Dean Pentel True I don't think it'll be a widespread thing for a while but yeah I don't think the caliber of people they're recruiting these days can take advantage of any new features that they couldn't with the M4 or other existing platforms. Maintenance is already an issue with simple weapons so I don't know if a specialized one with a huge price tag will fare that well. Plus that pressure looks dangerous and might wear barrels way more than .308 would.

We could have had this.

 

[Falcos_Commisar]

We could have had this.

View attachment 5894535

M-16A5.... Taken too soon

 

[HodgePodgeRogerDodger]

Never used the shields or mags, but have found plenty of bakelite shit around the property. While all the early plastic shit is rotted or sunbleached/cracking from exposure, all of the bakelite stuff looks brand new after a quick wash. Bakelite is wicked, wish we used it more than plastic.

From how I understand it, it’s a Kleenex situation. Bakelite is just how engineers refer to Phenolic resins mixed with a filler. Soviets used a weird mix that might’ve been saw dust and more asbestos.

Supposedly Russia still uses it for heat shields in rockets and I’ve seen old ass AK’s with it.

 

[HumptiDouji]

Also Ukraine has shown us that we got it right with SCHV (Small Caliber High Velocity) back in the 60's. Dudes in the trenches on the Avdiivka front are not taking well aimed shots at enemies they can't see unless they have thermal, they are spraying mag after mag on full auto while chucking grenades as fast as they can pull the pins.

Exactly. Fire superiority is critical for CQB, and you don't get fire superiority with a hard to control gun with less ammo. This is something we actually had down during the era of smoothbore military muskets, they were accurate enough for infantry combat distances, and it was just much faster and easier to reload them than rifled muskets. Smoothbore muskets were for a long time the best choice because you had to overwhelm the enemy and shoot them more and faster than they were shooting you. American revolutionaries even sought to maximize hit probability with the buck & ball load. ("Ye Olde Quest For Salvo")

There's so many examples in the past two centuries of people over-prioritizing precision and neglecting volume of fire, only to learn the hard way why the latter is critical. This would be less frustrating if it wasn't for the fact that anyone with half a clue about small arms and infantry tactics SHOULD already have a pretty firm idea of how good of a balance 5.56mm and 5.45mm already are, this isn't obscure or esoteric knowledge.

We don't really have the same overall track record of over-prioritizing volume of fire.

 

[Finnish Air Force]

Another weird setup. What's with the front sight location?

 

[BallsMcLongDong]

Exactly. Fire superiority is critical for CQB, and you don't get fire superiority with a hard to control gun with less ammo. This is something we actually had down during the era of smoothbore military muskets, they were accurate enough for infantry combat distances, and it was just much faster and easier to reload them than rifled muskets. Smoothbore muskets were for a long time the best choice because you had to overwhelm the enemy and shoot them more and faster than they were shooting you. American revolutionaries even sought to maximize hit probability with the buck & ball load. ("Ye Olde Quest For Salvo")

There's so many examples in the past two centuries of people over-prioritizing precision and neglecting volume of fire, only to learn the hard way why the latter is critical. This would be less frustrating if it wasn't for the fact that anyone with half a clue about small arms and infantry tactics SHOULD already have a pretty firm idea of how good of a balance 5.56mm and 5.45mm already are, this isn't obscure or esoteric knowledge.

We don't really have the same overall track record of over-prioritizing volume of fire.

I agree. 5.56 is not "I want to shoot someone 4 buildings over." and is perfect for "I want to shoot more bullets at you than you shoot at me in a quicker time." That's why I'm so enamored with PCCs. The option to have 50 rounds of "wimpy, wimpy" to shoot at someone who is in killing you distance will always be superior to "I only have to hit you once with the 10 giant bullets in this magazine, lets hope I've accounted for muzzle rise on these elephant cartridges." It's why despite the M1 existing, people wanted the Thompsons and MP40s. Being able to spray 10 bullets a second exactly into a dude's chest as he crests the hill of the trench you're in beats having a bullet 6 times the size that you really hope land.

 

[HumptiDouji]

It's why despite the M1 existing, people wanted the Thompsons and MP40s.

Sure, though the M1 worked out pretty well by volume, most US Army riflemen had one, and when you've got a dozen men firing versus men mostly using bolt-action rifles, then that larger magazine, faster reload, and self-loading action really starts to add up quite a lot. I'm sure that fact was recognized and appreciated by many doughboys.

Even against Volksgrenadier Divisions, that helped even things out somewhat.