Mega Rad Gun Thread

[Falcos_Commisar]

Sure, though the M1 worked out pretty well by volume, most US Army riflemen had one, and when you've got a dozen men firing versus men mostly using bolt-action rifles, then that larger magazine, faster reload, and self-loading action really starts to add up quite a lot. I'm sure that fact was recognized and appreciated by many doughboys.

Even against Volksgrenadier Divisions, that helped even things out somewhat.

Don't forget the oft forgotten M3 Grease gun and then REALLY underrated M2 carbine.

 

[SHIGGSHOGG]

.22 Creed is going to have an uphill struggle as in the past 5-7 years most of the manufacturers have started offering 22-250 with fast twist rates in response to people loading .223 bullets in 22-250. Heck every offering from browning comes with a 1:8 twist today.

Ya, I do think that 6.5 and 6 are probably gonna be more popular, but it's a good thing to have imo. I still see it as a better buy since you can "wildcat" your own cases way way easier than .22-250. I don't know where the fuck you get .250-3000 Savage brass, let alone for cheap or free. .308, 6.5, and 6 brass are a hell of a lot easier to come by and cheaper, which is likely far more important for the type of guy to be using a Sneedmore vs some ol fudd pill.

I agree. 5.56 is not "I want to shoot someone 4 buildings over." and is perfect for "I want to shoot more bullets at you than you shoot at me in a quicker time." That's why I'm so enamored with PCCs. The option to have 50 rounds of "wimpy, wimpy" to shoot at someone who is in killing you distance will always be superior to "I only have to hit you once with the 10 giant bullets in this magazine, lets hope I've accounted for muzzle rise on these elephant cartridges." It's why despite the M1 existing, people wanted the Thompsons and MP40s. Being able to spray 10 bullets a second exactly into a dude's chest as he crests the hill of the trench you're in beats having a bullet 6 times the size that you really hope land.

I feel like a 5.7X28 case but without the shoulder would be a really great SMG type thing, since you'd get decent power and awesome capacity behind a .30 something caliber bullet. If they changed stuff up a lil bit and used it at 5.56 pressures they could get even more power, hopefully pushing the 450+ FPE mark. That combined with a retarded ROF from a super minimal tube gun style setup would be fucking wild, or a slimmer and less gay P90 type setup. Maybe like a skinny micro TAVOR with the 40rd CMMG mags.
Maybe you could go full Capt Cockmuncher and slap a steel case head on that bitch and rock on at 85K and get even more power. Not really sure how barrel life would be, but who even cares if it's above 10K.

 

[Club Sandwich]

The M4 was bought as a replacement for the M3 grease gun

the M4 was originally an extension of the various carbine replacement projects to follow on the M1, M2, and M3 carbine that was used through from WW2 into Vietnam and even Grenada in some limited capacity. the idea was indeed a smaller, more portable version of the newly mass-issued M16 rifle that would maintain greater than 85% parts interchangeability. the various XM177 projects through the 60's and into the 70's to satisfy both the Air Force and the Army eventually split into the GAU-5A and GUU-5P for the Air Force (used through into the 90's) and the US Army's demands for a grenade launcher for the carbine on the XM177 series (E1, E2, et c). Colt Models 651 through 654 are all variations for the M16A1 carbine, which eventually created the XM4 project for the USMC in the early 1980's as the carbine equivalent upgrade for the M16A2 rifle. Colt eventually split the M16A2 Carbine into the M4 carbine family, and the "CAR-15" or "Colt Commando" family of weapons (famously the Colt Model 723 and 733, with export variations like the 725).

the 723 and 725 eventually were domestically produced in Canada by Diemaco as the C8, and among the last M4's were the Colt 727 for the UAE which were also purchased for US Law Enforcement and eventually the US military when the original M4 (still with burst fire held over from the M16A2 carbine project) was upgraded in the early 90's to the M4A1 which pioneered the 1913 Picatinny Accessory rail and replaced the burst-fire option with full auto like the original M16A1.

the Mk 18 has largely replaced the old CAR-15 and various XM177, GUU-5P, Colt 6xx and 7xx carbines, and SOPMOD M4's in inventory, rotating several into other departments or agencies. the vast majority of the M3 SMG were given away to allies like the Philippines or Singapore as the US military adopted the HK MP5 for quite a while as the preferred SMG, even with the US Navy and USMC having specialized versions just for them (the "Navy" trigger group) - the US Air Force opted to retain the GUU-5P instead of issue an SMG, and the US Army agreed with the Air Force, opting to issue XM177 and CAR-15 carbines instead of SMGs, or just hand out a pistol if you weren't cool enough. this left the M4 and M4A1 for SF, SOF, and sometimes mechanized or light infantry and USMC squad leaders.

for a while even into the 2000s, a decade or more after the M4A1 was adopted, it was rarely issued as a general weapon outside of units like paratroopers or air assaulters. i had an M4 with no optic, a carry handle, and the standard handguards (and 4+1 mags) issued to me during the 03 Iraqi Freedom invasion, going over the border in an M2A2. Bought a MARS sight at the BX in Kuwait the previous month and slapped it on there. Good times.

 

[More AWS-8Q Than You]

I feel like a 5.7X28 case but without the shoulder would be a really great SMG type thing, since you'd get decent power and awesome capacity behind a .30 something caliber bullet. If they changed stuff up a lil bit and used it at 5.56 pressures they could get even more power, hopefully pushing the 450+ FPE mark. That combined with a retarded ROF from a super minimal tube gun style setup would be fucking wild, or a slimmer and less gay P90 type setup. Maybe like a skinny micro TAVOR with the 40rd CMMG mags.
Maybe you could go full Capt Cockmuncher and slap a steel case head on that bitch and rock on at 85K and get even more power. Not really sure how barrel life would be, but who even cares if it's above 10K.

We briefly had something like that. Necked down pistol rounds are an interesting concept, it's just Johnson had the worst fucking luck. Also the Russians passing on the obvious and using 9x19 for their SMG versions of the AK instead of 7.62x25.

 

[Romulus augustulus]

I don't know where the fuck you get .250-3000 Savage brass, let alone for cheap or free

you run .22-250 brass into a .250-3000 sizing die. its close enough that it works. first firing fire forms the case the rest of the way.

 

[SHIGGSHOGG]

We briefly had something like that. Necked down pistol rounds are an interesting concept, it's just Johnson had the worst fucking luck. Also the Russians passing on the obvious and using 9x19 for their SMG versions of the AK instead of 7.62x25.

Yk, I think I basically described .30 carbine...
I do wonder what a higher pressure version in a modern SMG wit dem hollow tips would be like, I bet it'd be good for CQB shit and dumping rounds fast

you run .22-250 brass into a .250-3000 sizing die. its close enough that it works. first firing fire forms the case the rest of the way.

I mean like price and availability of parent cases, you're way more likely to have a bucket of .308 or 6.5 on hand than .22-250 or it's parent case.
There's not really much ammo for sale in 22 Sneed, but I'd be much more interested in getting gear to reload that vs the 250 since it's just more interchangeable with newer stuff. I don't know why anybody would purposefully go out of their way to build a competition rifle in .22-250 when there's better things out there.
I don't really want to do it, but a 22 Sneed in an AR-10 would be a kinda sick setup to have around

 

[cumrobbery]

I think that it's extremely retarded.

• Far more recoil, making rapid fire difficult at best.
• Far heavier ammo in smaller capacity magazines.
• Big and heavy.
• They want it short but still want the zippy fast 6.8mm, resulting in a whopping 85000psi chamber pressure which makes .50BMG blush.
• So ridiculously fucking loud and blasty as a result that a special new kind of suppressor is mandatory, making your 13.5" barreled carbine the length of a full length rifle anyway.
• Also this soaring high pressure means that it's going to erode the fuck out of your barrel in no time.
• Consider that last part when I remind you that the XM250 companion machinegun does not have a quick change barrel or any kind of forced air cooling feature.

View attachment 5894187
View attachment 5894191

This thing can have a magic scope and be able to defeat Lv.4 plates with ease at a distance, but that shit is kind of irrelevant when this rifle is awful for fire and maneuver, it's an obscene regression for CQB. (You can also ask yourself how commonplace Lv.4 plates would actually be, or how much of a difference they would make in reality.)
This stupid gun is a fever dream for delirious boomer top brass romanticizing the old marksmanship school of thought to a perverse degree, and the fact that the XM5 has both a conventional AR15 T-shaped charging handle in addition to an extra one on the left side of the receiver should make it very obvious just how much of a design by committee that this gun really is.
View attachment 5894199

I am quite certain it will never fully replace the M4.

 

[Badungus Kabungus]

Question about kit. What do people prefer for a cummerbund, QR or velcro?

Mostly thinking about what will be faster and less annoying if I have to don it fast. Taking it off quickly is less of a concern. Currently got a QR one and it's pretty comfy, but if I'm half-asleep it can be a pain in the ass to attach.

 

[DocAwe]

Question about kit. What do people prefer for a cummerbund, QR or velcro?

Mostly thinking about what will be faster and less annoying if I have to don it fast. Taking it off quickly is less of a concern. Currently got a QR one and it's pretty comfy, but if I'm half-asleep it can be a pain in the ass to attach.

I like Velcro™.
It's nearly infinite in adjustment and very fast.
Downside is it's service life can be shorter and it's noisy.
I do like QR on things such as shoulder straps.

 

[Badungus Kabungus]

I like Velcro™.
It's nearly infinite in adjustment and very fast.
Downside is it's service life can be shorter and it's noisy.
I do like QR on things such as shoulder straps.

The adjustability is a good point, thanks.

About the shoulder straps, no issues with the buckle getting in the way of shouldering a rifle? I had a Warrior Assault Systems QRC where the shoulder buckle ended up being such a pain in the ass I had to put rubber bands on it to prevent the buttstock from slipping.

 

[DocAwe]

The adjustability is a good point, thanks.

About the shoulder straps, no issues with the buckle getting in the way of shouldering a rifle? I had a Warrior Assault Systems QRC where the shoulder buckle ended up being such a pain in the ass I had to put rubber bands on it to prevent the buttstock from slipping.

That's the rub.
You eventually end up with a crate full of stuff that was going to solve all your kit problems but didn't.
I think the best "universal" advice I could give is the simpler you can make it the better off you'll be.
At the end of the day all you're really trying to do is carry stuff in a relatively tolerable manner and not get un-alived in the process.

 

[Badungus Kabungus]

I think the best "universal" advice I could give is the simpler you can make it the better off you'll be.

That's what I'm leaning towards now, less buckles and unnecessary shit wherever possible. Just needs to be simple enough I can use it at any state, be it in mittens, or injured, or asleep, or whatever.

 

[LGHDR+]

Question about kit. What do people prefer for a cummerbund, QR or velcro?

Mostly thinking about what will be faster and less annoying if I have to don it fast. Taking it off quickly is less of a concern. Currently got a QR one and it's pretty comfy, but if I'm half-asleep it can be a pain in the ass to attach.

I guess I'm the only QR guy.

 

[Kurt Eichenwald]

I like the 30 round mauser clip pouch that straps onto my belt.

 

[Badungus Kabungus]

I like the 30 round mauser clip pouch that straps onto my belt.

Have you tried just wrapping yourself with ammo belts? It's a vibe.

 

[HumptiDouji]

I feel like a 5.7X28 case but without the shoulder would be a really great SMG type thing

.30 Super Carry? I'm not that sold on it as a pistol cartridge, but I want to imagine rebuilding a P90 for it.
Or maybe a Calico M950. Picture how much more freedom these otherwise 50 and 100 round magazines could fit in them.

the original M4 (still with burst fire held over from the M16A2 carbine project)

I hate how it's impossible to find images of it online because M4 is used as shorthand for M4A1.

it's just Johnson had the worst fucking luck.

I think it was a matter of A), competing with dirt cheap .30 Carbine surplus on the commercial market, and B), .223 Remington just being a much better infantry rifle cartridge (and the M16 being a much better infantry rifle than the M1 and M2 Carbines).
.22 Spitfire is a cool cartridge, but it would basically have had to somehow replace .30 Carbine during the carbine program to have a real shot, and if you're gonna do that kind of time travel I would suggest to improve the magazines too.

 

[LGHDR+]

You

Or maybe a Calico M950. Picture how much more freedom these otherwise 50 and 100 round magazines could fit in them.
View attachment 5899031

I always thought the Calico helical mag was cool, but then the Norks adopted them and now I feel dirty:

 

[HumptiDouji]

Maybe if we're really lucky, some scant parts kits of those things can make it to the west some beautiful day.

 

[LGHDR+]

Maybe if we're really lucky, some scant parts kits of those things can make it to the west some beautiful day.

Don't get me wrong, I'm under the rainbow with you.

Then again, I wouldn't want it 5.45x39mm because I'm a sacrilegious non-AK owner.

 

[1Tonka_Truck]

The XM250 not having a QCB are forced air cooling system shows that the design team probably all died in an elevator accident and SIG went "well it's almost done, I'm sure the Army won't mind" and the US Army went "deerrrppp it's not a SAW so it's perfect"

That's the best design decision to come out of the whole program. A squad automatic weapon shouldn't have a QCB and weigh 18 pounds, empty. The crayon eaters figured this out years ago and then took it a little too far.