Grace Lavery / Joseph Lavery & Daniel M. Lavery / Mallory Ortberg - "Straight with extra steps" couple trooning out to avoid "dwindling into mere heterosexuality"

Of all the talk of Mallory in the thread, I never really found her as appealing as a cow. I was wondering why that was and I think it's because I joined this thread later. From what I can tell, it's like she removed most of her personality with a scraper and all that's left underneath is a mildly content smiler. Hell, she doesn't even seem to get upset on social media - that's Joe's job.

I think out of all the reactions, Mallory likely doesn't know how she feels about this herself. She has likely become emotionally out of touch with herself and unable to identifiy emotions beyond what she should or wants to feel, just that she is experiencing some mild discomfort and wants it to go away soon. She's a chronic people pleaser at heart.
Mallory really isn’t a lolcow, but her slavish devotion to prime proto-lolcow Joe, and his half-assed ideals, have transformed her into a Lolcalf. Mallory erasing her entire identity just to get the approval of a ridiculous academic cross-dressing clown like Joe made her a lolcow, but it doesn’t have to be a permanent condition.

She is a people pleaser to her core and that’s why it has been so easy for Joe to pull her strings. Joe’s passive aggressive mocking and criticism made her work x10 harder to mold herself into something worthy of Joe Lavatory’s approval. (Given Joe’s deep love for being degenerate and shocking, I’m really surprised he hasn’t adopted Lavatory as his nome de plume, or even his legal surname.

While people can point to all the things that go wrong with girls raised without a strong father figure, there is also the other side of the coin when a girl idolizes her father and seeks his approval to an unhealthy degree. I think this was Mallory for a long time, but at some point she transferred this idolization, and deep desire to please a male authority figure, entirely to Professor Joe.

Some of my continuing psychoanalysis of Mal. While she doesn’t have conventional lolcow behaviors like Joe, her psychological motivations and identity issues are bizarrely fascinating to discuss.
It also explains her bizarre fixation with hating her father, to the point she gets tattoos to reinforce and publicly display the “hate” even years later. The opposite of love is indifference. Mallory is still psychologically tortured by discarding Dad for Joe and has channeled this turmoil into anger and rage toward daddy.

Mallory was raised in a household where getting angry wasn’t a thing. A household headed by a devout Christian psychologist would be determined to channel feelings of anger or rage in “healthier ways” or encourage total suppression of them, esp in women. They would have wanted to calmly discuss disagreements and feelings using conflict resolution and calm open communication while also striving for Christian ideals of compassion, humbleness and understanding.

Joe, OTOH, is a personality disorder made flesh and he thrives on drama, chaos and manipulation. It probably felt exhilarating and dangerous to Mal. Calm open communication, empathy and understanding bore Joe. Engaging in such tactics is only a useful facade for manipulation and head games.

Joe encouraged Mallory to make her father the target of all the suppressed anger, resentment and rage she had bottled up for years. Fuck all that Christian forgiveness and understanding crap, take testosterone and get really, really, angry and vengeful. Dad had the target placed on his back mostly because he was the biggest danger and roadblock to Joe’s total domination of Mallory. Her subjugation could not be complete until she was stabbing her dad in the back and publicly disavowing him and everything he stood for. It was Joe’s total victory. I’m sure he made Mal feel like she was the one in charge and control. He went as far as putting on dresses and telling Mal what a big strong brave man she was to take on her evil family. Joe is careful to always credit Mal as the guiding force of his troonhood. Lol. She believes it all too.

Joe uses tactics with Mal that parents use with little kids. You coax them in a variety of subtle ways to come to the conclusion you want, but must ensure it feels like a decision or conclusion they came to themselves on their own. It never works if they feel like you made the decision or drew the conclusion for them.

The fact Mallory, for all her supposed intelligence, could not see Joe for what he was fascinated me and a lot of others. It was a lot easier for Joe than would have normally been the case thanks to framing the issues as matters of transphobia, evil cis Christian values but he still had to resort to the nuclear option -false allegations of pedophilia. I don’t think Joe could get Mal’s friends and acquaintances as a cheering squad against her family until he brought in the Pedo BS and a woke public lynch mob

Joe’s plans kept getting foiled by her family’s seemingly unending well of compassion and support and that infuriated Joe. He had hoped the trans stuff would bring out the evil Christian judgement and shaming, but instead her mom helped her through the tit chop and recovery. I don’t think her family approved of all the nonsense Mallory was latching onto, but their lack of understanding it didn’t result in withdrawing love and support and that was a major problem for Joe.

I think after a year or so Joe realized he would never get Mallory’s family to disown her no matter how extreme LGBTQBBQ woke they went. They were going to foil all his plans with all this unconditional love and support, maybe even turn it into “teachable moment” stuff for their congregation. Intolerable stuff for Joe. Only a nuclear option, like public sex abuse allegation was going to do the trick. I can’t imagine how he needled Mallory for any hints of dirty laundry or anything with the whiff scandal she might have heard about. Mal’s brother’s POCD was just the ticket Joe needed and he could fan those flames into a conflagration to finally burn down the Ortberg’s house and get Mal to sever all ties.

Mallory was planning her next tattoo about hating her dad, while Joe was knocking up his girlfriend in the next room.

It will be interesting to see if the baby finally dynamites the whole shitshow. If Mallory had not destroyed her family and been isolated in NYC I’m fairly sure she would have left once Lilly moved in or got pregnant, but she’s got some of the deepest sunk cost fallacy imaginable.

The baby is going to put a type of stress on these three ridiculous people that they’ve never experienced. It’s the type of stress and responsibility they’ve spent their whole lives avoiding or fleeing from, so now having it in cramped quarters 24/7 is going to be a doozy and real rest on how much control Joe still has on Mal.

I do wonder how much they are, or aren’t, pushing Mal to bond with the baby. I can’t decide if Joe would see the baby as more useful for including or excluding Mallory. Given how well negging works on her I get the feeling purposely excluding her is the way to ensure she’s racing to change diapers, hold the baby and fawn over it.
 
By the way, Grace, people aren’t concerned you’re a pedophile because you’re trans, but because of your obsession with pedophilia, your truly disgusting 🤮 obsession with sex that you display publicly (like if that’s public then what is private), and the fact that you honestly seem to encourage things like pedophilic jokes about your helpless, innocent baby.

You are a scholar, writer, and speaker which means you know words and the art of saying things better than most. Therefore it doesn’t hold water that you claim to always be surprised people take what you say “that way.” People take what you say “that way” because you mean it to sound “that way” and you are pushing the boundaries to see what you can get away with. You know it. We know it.

An educated writer, speaker, and scholar who accidentally messes up his words all the time but only the parts about pedophilia is like an MD pretending she doesn’t understand something common like pneumonia symptoms and a patient dies because she doesn’t do an x ray or treat them with antibiotics. Like, hello, they know. This is basic. If they don’t know then they should know. Either way, this level of incompetence should exclude them from influencing society at universities.

Knowing how not to cross the pedophile boundary is simple. A fifth grader would understand this which is why you don’t often hear anyone at all making these sorts of jokes and why all regular people shut them down.

There is something incredibly sinister in how these societal influencers find it fun to dabble in a little pedophilia talk now and then.

If McGill, University of Michigan, and Berkeley can’t fire their professors for being perverts, then they should at least fire them for being so incompetent that they accidentally made a pedophile joke again! Oops! I didn’t mean that! Oh darn it happened again, a pedophile joke fell out of my mouth on accident! Right. Okay. We don’t believe you do anything on accident, Grace Lavery.
 
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The baby is going to put a type of stress on these three ridiculous people that they’ve never experienced. It’s the type of stress and responsibility they’ve spent their whole lives avoiding or fleeing from, so now having it in cramped quarters 24/7 is going to be a doozy and real rest on how much control Joe still has on Mal.
Absolutely correct.

And I fear something like this could happen:
 
Did Joe and Lily discuss over their intimate evening meal the need to post the tard baby Dad?

Lily's post:
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Joe's post, what a heartfelt, wonderful acknowledgement of Mallory. All two words of it:
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If only you knew...
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Another edgelord joke, thankfully not sexual this time:

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I think a lot of fathers take time to understand the enormity of the responsibility of fatherhood. It's common for men not to be immediately overwhelmed with this feeling of (gay alert, sorry!) sacred love and duty--as Lily clearly was--the nanosecond the baby is born. But it IS unusual to have a dad like Joe who is such a raging narc as to make post after post about himself, make cheap joke after cheap edgelord joke at the expense of his newborn child, call multiple tabloids for a write-up, all for the fleeting approval of his pomo aBoLiSh tHe fAmiLy social media followers.

EDIT: A couple more comments from the /r/blogsnark thread that @Trianon posted above.
Regarding the wisdom of calling tabloids to report on one's newborn child:
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Regarding Joe's "commute" to Berkeley:
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Therefore it doesn’t hold water that you claim to always be surprised people take what you say “that way.” People take what you say “that way” because you mean it to sound “that way” and you are pushing the boundaries to see what you can get away with. You know it. We know it.
His excuse is the "literate" equivalent of "IT'S JUST A JOKE BRO".
Some of my continuing psychoanalysis of Mal. While she doesn’t have conventional lolcow behaviors like Joe, her psychological motivations and identity issues are bizarrely fascinating to discuss.
Thanks for the massive sperging, that clears some things up. I think the end will be either all 3 going their own way or Joe will hold onto Mallory as she's his live in mum & ticket to E fame still.

I think the best thing Lily could do to make herself attractive to Joe is to become famous. It'd be a double edge sword since fame means Joe is MAD but he now needs her. She'll be punished for it but he will leech from her as much as possible.

Either way, this level of incompetence should exclude them from influencing society at universities.
It should exclude him from being a parent but sadly we cannot control that. :(

Question: does Joe even like teaching? I imagine he enjoys the center of attention and talking endlessly about things he likes, but I don't think he likes lesson plans, homework, or test making. He seems like a teacher who would copy all his quiz questions from the internet.


Regarding Joe's "commute" to Berkeley:
Yeah, I think he likes the prestigious nature of being a teacher but not the work. I think his ideal job is what he's currently doing: leech. He gets paid by others to write books and then accomplishes that and spends all the money on glamor. I'm surprised he hasn't opened a patreon or worse, an onlyfans.
 
If that happened, I think Mal would kill herself.
If so only due to public fallout. I think Mal gives zero fucks about protecting kids, if she did she wouldn’t be married to a sicko like Joe. The pedo campaign against her family was only because it was such a handy bludgeon to use, not because she gave a fuck.

The new photos of Mallory and Rocco speak volumes. I never got the idea Mallory had much interest in kids or motherhood. The sanctity and importance of motherhood was certainly reinforced endlessly at church and I think she bucked against the idea of it being a woman’s highest calling. In the end she fought so hard against being a woman or maternal she got her tits chopped, declared herself a man and started celebrating her queer anti-breeder lifestyle.

I’m sure Joe was positively gleeful when he announced he and Lilly were now going to be breeders and watched her eat it. I’m sure he gets a thrill shoving that baby in her arms and telling her to smile.
 
Are we talking about the same person? She's laughing along with the "giving head" jokes about her son.
Yep. I'm talking about this:
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Sentiments that Joe would never feel, or express, in a million years.

Mallory and Lily are both going along with the humiliating sex shit for Joe's approval. It's not their idea, either of them. If they were with a normal non-narc guy, none of the group sex, mouth fisting, face biting, bush and tits on Instagram, would be happening.
 
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I'm surprised he hasn't opened a patreon or worse, an onlyfans.
Groe doesn't have the existing fanbase to open one and be irregular, and he can't be regular enough to build a new fanbase: even if he did they would then have expectations and demands and he'd hate that. He'd probably not even be able to handle the idea of an internet random nominally being your patron. He might make Mal start an OnlyFans though.
 
Yep. I'm talking about this:
View attachment 5909921
Sentiments that Joe would never feel, or express, in a million years.

Mallory and Lily are both going along with the humiliating sex shit for Joe's approval. It's not their idea, either of them. If they were with a normal non-narc guy, none of the group sex, mouth fisting, face biting, bush and tits on Instagram, would be happening.
I really wanted to hate on "mammalian manifestation of hyacinth" for its syllabic bloat, but on reflection, the rhythm is pretty nice, and more to the point, "hyacinth" is a pretty good way to capture baby head smell, which, as weird as it sounds, is exceptionally lovely.

None of which redeems her, though.

I wonder if she is hoping just to bide her time and take subtle but increasing measures to marginalize and edit out Mallory.

It's not their idea, either of them.
Maybe not, but they're both accountable for their own decisions, even if under the thumb of a narc manipulator.

bush and tits on Instagram
o.O I missed that, and I'm not sad about it.
 
Oh I know how they're gonna save money...

Flights. When kiddo is old enough to be a problem dollar says Joe suddenly needs to be at Berkley and finds a way to swear uts cheaper to not fly back and forth but remain for the semester (could be true depending on what he could find for living space but even if not I suspect he'll spin it that way).

Oh but they can't afford the flights and ofc he can't be arsed to cut back on insane clothing or anything he desires. Actually. Thats how I think this ends.

Joe starts living at berkley to escape his kid during semesters.

Joe then decides the financial cost of staying in NYC is not realistic.

At this point either a. Lily runs for the hills with kiddo. Joe pays child support, Mallory catches the abuse and they wind up nearish Berkley.

B. Joe and lily decide to raise the kid somewhere reasonable for the kid, take their two salaries and hike it near her work, and Mallory is abandoned like an unwanted poorly bred pooch. Franjly the dogs probably get left with Mallory who has no real job or future as her responsibility unless Joe or lily are more attached than I think.
 
Yep. I'm talking about this:
View attachment 5909921
Sentiments that Joe would never feel, or express, in a million years.

Mallory and Lily are both going along with the humiliating sex shit for Joe's approval. It's not their idea, either of them. If they were with a normal non-narc guy, none of the group sex, mouth fisting, face biting, bush and tits on Instagram, would be happening.
This reads like fan fic. How would you ever know such a thing? Whatever might-have-beens can be imagined, these women did choose this man, knowing exactly what and who he is, and they continue doubling down on that choice long after any sane or grounded person would have run away screaming.

Any moron can write some flowery prose about babies being sweet. That doesn't mean that person actually has functioning maternal instincts, let alone a decent moral framework. She thinks Joe is a good father. She didn't get accidentally knocked up, she went way out of her way to make a baby with this perverted freak, while sharpening her machiavellian elbows against his legal wife.

You sell women short when you imagine they aren't capable of the evil this woman has done and will continue to do.
 
This reads like fan fic. How would you ever know such a thing?
First of all, it's Joe posting and talking about all the humiliating sex shit. The bush, the tits, the group sex, the face fisting and biting, discussing Mallory's ability to "top" him, thirsting after twinks, etc etc etc. All Joe.

Also, I'm no "fan" of Mallory or Lily, but as arguably one of the biggest autists of this thread, I've spent plenty of time scrutinizing their online presence before and after meeting Joe. Neither of them ever gave a whisper of a hint of being into humiliating sex, or being public about their sex lives, ever. Until Joe.

I 100% agree with you that Lily has agency. Lily chose to get together with Joe, chose to have a baby by him, clearly wants his approval. What the fuck appeal or attraction Joe could possibly have in her and Mallory's eyes is the ultimate mystery of him as a lolcow. But I just disagree that her post about Rocco is insincere or calculated, or that she is evil. Lily and Mallory have brainworms, but only Joe Lavery is a genuinely poisonous narc freak.
 
First of all, it's Joe posting and talking about all the humiliating sex shit. The bush, the tits, the group sex, the face fisting and biting, discussing Mallory's ability to "top" him, thirsting after twinks, etc etc etc. All Joe.

Also, I'm no "fan" of Mallory or Lily, but as arguably one of the biggest autists of this thread, I've spent plenty of time scrutinizing their online presence before and after meeting Joe. Neither of them ever gave a whisper of a hint of being into humiliating sex, or being public about their sex lives, ever. Until Joe.

I 100% agree with you that Lily has agency. Lily chose to get together with Joe, chose to have a baby by him, clearly wants his approval. What the fuck appeal or attraction Joe could possibly have in her and Mallory's eyes is the ultimate mystery of him as a lolcow. But I just disagree that her post about Rocco is insincere or calculated, or that she is evil. Lily and Mallory have brainworms, but only Joe Lavery is a genuinely poisonous narc freak.
One can hope her maternal feelings of love and adoration are authentic, instead of performative, and she will therefore be motivated to get Rocco far the fuck away from Joe and all the ridiculous nonsense he’s currently being surrounded with.

In the next 18 months she will face choosing between what her baby needs and what Joe wants. Some women choose their man over their child and others make their child their top priority. I guess we will see what kind of woman Lilly ends up being.
 
Yep. I'm talking about this:
View attachment 5909921
Sentiments that Joe would never feel, or express, in a million years.

Mallory and Lily are both going along with the humiliating sex shit for Joe's approval. It's not their idea, either of them. If they were with a normal non-narc guy, none of the group sex, mouth fisting, face biting, bush and tits on Instagram, would be happening.
I hate the whole rearing situation they have put Rocco in, but this IS the longest post about him they have posted that doesn't spiral into self-congratulatory b.s. So I can give her tepid points for that.

Joe, OTOH, is a personality disorder made flesh and he thrives on drama, chaos and manipulation. It probably felt exhilarating and dangerous to Mal. Calm open communication, empathy and understanding bore Joe. Engaging in such tactics is only a useful facade for manipulation and head games.
Great analysis. Mallory either has no experience with narcs or limited experience (if her dad is one) that presents in this particular therapy-speak, soothing way. She thus had no defenses against Joe's boundary-pushing, and to her, it would seem like he was speaking truth itself, finally cutting through all the accrued discomfort Mallory had within her family structure and her inability to break free of their expectations. Of course, she didn't even really have that discomfort until Joe started opining about how the whole dynamic was odd and problematic and bound to create repression and secrets. He may even have been right. But she still has discomfort with Joe and Lily, had no interest in New York or group sex or polyamory or babies until Joe brought it up. She has admitted that she is simply not dealing with those negative feelings. Because I bet every time she thinks about saying anything, Joe can say she's talking like her dad, and she can't bring that kind of repression into their totally free and good lifestyle.

Her situation reminds me of Noelle Stevenson, another slow car crash that happened to a talented female artist, but in reverse. Noelle had a girlfriend who wouldn't commit to her; Noelle would get kicked out of their bed so the girlfriend could fuck men while Noelle listened in the next room. Before long, Noelle transitioned and started going by N.D., at which point the girlfriend rewarded her with a ring (timeline subject to my poor memory). But it's clear that early rejection/coming to terms with her sexuality (Noelle was also raised evangelical) planted the seeds of "I should be a dude" in her.

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New transhumanist cope. He thinks "sex is the thing you can't change" is circular logic, but "women are women who think they're women" is not.
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Aye. You can change sex. I have, in fact. My endocrine system produced exclusively male sex hormones, now it produces (almost) exclusively female sex hormones. What changed? I think terfs are obliged to answer “nothing.” But it’s not a serious position.

To put it another way: if we want to know whether person A is blonde, we look at his hair, not his DNA. Sure, this is unique among mammalian species. But if cows develop synthetic hormones which overwrite their endocrine system, they’d change sex too.

Terfs then say hormones aren’t definitive of sex. So: I can change the shape and function of genitals. They say, that’s not sex either. We say: so, when trans women can gestate fetuses, we’ll have changed sex? They say, no, bc you weren’t *initially* capable of doing so.

The goalposts have shifted and they now know what to say (or think they do): a women is a person of the class naturally inclined to produce large, immotile gametes. So, here we have a category that is not defined like any other bodily category, nor is it materialist.

It’s not defined like any other aspect of the body, bc we usually describe bodies as they *are*: blonde; underweight; 6’ 1”; cancerous. So whatever “sex” is a property of for terfs, it isn’t the body as usually understood.

Nor is it materialist. Materialists believe that phenomena are graspable primarily by their physical characteristics. Terfs define sex either by intention (“the class intended to produce LIG”) or by history (“an organism whose developmental pathway was female”).

I’m not a materialist either, by the way, but I don’t pretend to be. What happened here was that some halfway decent philosophers just didn’t do the work, and produced half-assed ideas, and then defended them with their entire lives. It’s tragic.

The point has become to define “sex” according to a conceptually rigorous framework whereby it is not subject to change. The actual terf definition of sex is “the thing you can’t change.” Which is circular, as well as anti-feminist.

But truthfully, none of this matters in the least as far as the policy questions go. The only thing that matters is: under what circumstances should the state be empowered to determine the sex of a person’s body? Trans feminists’ answer is: under no circumstances.

Terfs’ answer is: constantly. At the public toilet, the rape crisis center, the school sports day—several times a day, for many people. It’s surveillance and it is inhuman. Let them try to defend it if they want—people aren’t going to buy it.

An outtake to prove they are totally HIP, EDGY shitlords.
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Really giving "nothing behind those eyes," reflecting their true nature.
 
....In fact, he was forced to delete his Cass Review thread because he said he felt "aroused" by the idea of people.....
link | archive

A lone hero taking them up on the challenge.
Quote since not showing up: "lexialang: Are you grace lavery also and why were you joking about your newborn surrogate baby giving you head? Is that fucking funny to you? Reported. I can only wish that baby would get taken away."

--Let's try not to get hysterical here....to be strictly accurate he's right he didnt say he felt aroused by young people, no one said anything about surrogacy, did they? I dont know where thats coming from. and maybe take a beat before everyone start calling CPS
it is really fucking strange but it's strange in the same way a lot of people act--
I was on public transportation in, let's say Kerala, on a street car and this red neck guy from the US with his family was there with his ~10 month old baby daughter who was holding on to the windowsill for balance. and as they go over a pothole the guy goes "Shake those hips girl yeeooowww!" to his 10 month old like he's gonna ask his Hooters waitress for a lap dance
. Not exactly the same of course, but they're just a EDGIER, more extreme example of this. I think that's the motivation. it's pretty strange though. If only theyd stop

Man, the twee faux-friendly Redditor language in that comment section is insufferable:

It's particularly grating since you can tell that at least 1/3 of the commenters follow this thread. Enjoy sucking off the tranny jannies, you fucking cowards.

LMAOne thing the Redditors do get right is a few comments pointing out that they'd be better off living in the PNW. I don't know how I never thought of this before, but Portland would be perfect for them. Cheaper, less of a commute to Berkeley, and they'd fit right in with the locals. Shame that Joe as an Englishman is so fixated on NYC.
:story:plenty of dick sucking here as well
It's feminine passive-aggression so potent, it could probably be used in place of bathtub estrogen in a pinch.
The height of passive aggression is talking about the subject behind the subject's back (pretty much the entire existance of the Farms)--which is why I've always supported the idea of dr. Joseph being allowed to participate here if he would like. I think this thread can support his participation. Only fair that he be given an opportunity to present a defense/counter

[Although, he did participate in the early thread, and it didn't go well. on second thought it might actually break his brain to participate here]
Yesterday, Joe was to present his rescheduled Johns Hopkins U summer fellows talk for the Women, Gender, and Sexuality program, "The Pedophile's Complaint: Hoax News in the Neoliberal Decade." https://krieger.jhu.edu/wgs/event/grace-lavery/ Perhaps he Zoomed it? Or perhaps "NEW DATE" means re-rescheduled.
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No sign of an audio or text version being available. I have dutifully inquired of the program's spox as to where I may seek this fine example of erudition.
i gotchu
he was giving a talk somewhere the day after the whole birth of child thing, I dont know if he went or not, but the keynot e for the rest of the conference was put online: here you go if youre interested
 
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