Baseball Thread

[GloryHole Stalker]

The fact that he actually didn't bet on Baseball is pretty funny to me. I like to imagine that he had the foresight to realize that since he works in baseball, getting caught betting on it would be a big no no, despite the fact that him getting caught at all is obviously going to be a big problem. Dude was literally stealing millions of dollars, and was going to be fucked either way if he got caught so I am disappointed that he didn't go all the way, bet against the Angels, and try to sabotage them from the inside.

But, how do we know for sure he wasn't betting on baseball. According to this "investigation" he didn't gamble on anything. Did he or does he have other irons in the fire?

John Dowd spent over 4 months investigating Rose, at the behest of the MLB to look into every nook and cranny of what he (Rose) was up to... to ensure that baseball itself was not tarnished by Rose's actions. How long did the feds look at this? A few days? A week or 2? And the MLB will happily take this result and attempt to completely bury the story otherwise. Are they going to hire a P.I. to look into this further? Doubt it. This is just another sign of the disintegration of a sport I've been following since the late 70s. Sad.

 

[Armor of God]

But, how do we know for sure he wasn't betting on baseball. According to this "investigation" he didn't gamble on anything. Did he or does he have other irons in the fire?

John Dowd spent over 4 months investigating Rose, at the behest of the MLB to look into every nook and cranny of what he (Rose) was up to... to ensure that baseball itself was not tarnished by Rose's actions. How long did the feds look at this? A few days? A week or 2? And the MLB will happily take this result and attempt to completely bury the story otherwise. Are they going to hire a P.I. to look into this further? Doubt it. This is just another sign of the disintegration of a sport I've been following since the late 70s. Sad.

The cooperating associate of the bookie revealed the details of all 16,000 bets that Mizuhara made.

Analyzing these bets showed that no bets were made on Baseball.

To invalidate this, you would have to believe that the associate and the Feds were in on a scheme to erase all Baseball activity.

They examined Ohtani’s phone including his messages to Ippei and others, as well as his browsing history and cookies. Nothing related to gambling turns up.

To invalidate this, you would have to believe that in a matter of days they were able to use some complex software to remove these messages and particular cookies, leaving everything else in place so that things didn’t look too “clean”.

They have Ippei on tape from the banking records impersonating Ohtani as well as the accesses by Ippei’s phone to the account and all of the other damning evidence related to account activitu.

To invalidate this, you would have to believe that the bank was also in on it, colluding with Ippei, the Feds, the bookie and the associates to make the money trail appear in a way that is beneficial to the MLB as you put it.

I believe in plenty of things that people consider to be “conspiracy theories”. In fact, I detest that term itself because it’s a way to auto-dismiss a hypothesis.

However, step back and think about it (and please read the complaint) and you’ll see that it’s simply implausible. Ohtani is innocent, and to think otherwise in light of the evidence is a dogmatic position akin to religious beliefs.

Also, you’re comparing an investigation that took place in the late 80’s to 2024.

It took months because the Feds had to fly all over the country, analyzing literal paper records from different groups of people and listen to literal tapes of whatever audio evidence that there was.

All of the evidence needed for an investigation related to betting is either in centralized databases or on the phones themselves. That’s the reality of life in 2024.

I believe that Pete Rose the player should be in the Hall of Fame. I understand that they want to keep him out as a Manager.

Bonds, I believe has 2 Hall of Fame careers in 1 lifetime, the latter of which was aided by steroids. Therefore it makes sense to put him in as well (at least in this anon’s opinion).

The others I’m not sure about. Clemens ? Probably. The others, well, you guys are more knowledgeable than I because I’m a relative noob to this sport.

 

[TheHarbinger]

To invalidate this, you would have to believe that the associate and the Feds were in on a scheme to erase all Baseball activity.

If Ohtani was the person betting it would make sense that there are no bets on baseball as well. As that would be a major issue beyond him gambling on sports. You think if Pete Rose was betting on college basketball that it would have mattered as much? The problem was that he was betting not only on baseball but on his own team and basically destroying the integrity of the sport.

Ohtani betting on other sports makes him an addict for sure. But not someone directly corrupting the sport like Pete Rose.

To invalidate this, you would have to believe that the bank was also in on it, colluding with Ippei, the Feds, the bookie and the associates to make the money trail appear in a way that is beneficial to the MLB as you put it.

The same bank handling billions of dollars in Los Angeles Dodger's business every year? They have an incentive to keep a good relationship with MLB.

 

[GloryHole Stalker]

@Armor of God - could not reply directly, so my answers are in bold.

The cooperating associate of the bookie revealed the details of all 16,000 bets that Mizuhara made.

Analyzing these bets showed that no bets were made on Baseball.

Fair enough, but as I said upthread "other irons on the fire".

To invalidate this, you would have to believe that the associate and the Feds were in on a scheme to erase all Baseball activity.

I have about as much trust in the feds as I do the modern MLB. The MLB may have able to successfully lobby this into an outcome that would somewhat neatly wrap this up without doing too much PR damage to them or Ohtani, backed by Japan, as this could turn into something very embarrassing for their country.

They examined Ohtani’s phone including his messages to Ippei and others, as well as his browsing history and cookies. Nothing related to gambling turns up.

To invalidate this, you would have to believe that in a matter of days they were able to use some complex software to remove these messages and particular cookies, leaving everything else in place so that things didn’t look too “clean”.

Because of course Ohtani and Ippei had no other means of communication than their respective phones that the feds confiscated, lol.

They have Ippei on tape from the banking records impersonating Ohtani as well as the accesses by Ippei’s phone to the account and all of the other damning evidence related to account activitu.

To invalidate this, you would have to believe that the bank was also in on it, colluding with Ippei, the Feds, the bookie and the associates to make the money trail appear in a way that is beneficial to the MLB as you put it.

That is what the feds claim yes... and to the second part...maybe.

I believe in plenty of things that people consider to be “conspiracy theories”. In fact, I detest that term itself because it’s a way to auto-dismiss a hypothesis.

However, step back and think about it (and please read the complaint) and you’ll see that it’s simply implausible. Ohtani is innocent, and to think otherwise in light of the evidence is a dogmatic position akin to religious beliefs.

So, for at least several years, Ohtani had a separate bank account that even his financial advisors could not access and was denied access via an interpreter, no one thought to go to Ohtani directly to straighten the matter out, and Ohtani never knew about any of this? Okee dokee.

This is really nothing personal against Ohtani. This could be anyone. My gripe is with the MLB who seem to see this more as a PR issue than a possible "integrity of the game" problem. There is more to this than meets the eye.

As to Ohtani, learn some fuckin English and smarten up. Hopefully he does this going foward.

Also, you’re comparing an investigation that took place in the late 80’s to 2024.

It took months because the Feds had to fly all over the country, analyzing literal paper records from different groups of people and listen to literal tapes of whatever audio evidence that there was.

All of the evidence needed for an investigation related to betting is either in centralized databases or on the phones themselves. That’s the reality of life in 2024.

I believe that Pete Rose the player should be in the Hall of Fame. I understand that they want to keep him out as a Manager.

Bonds, I believe has 2 Hall of Fame careers in 1 lifetime, the latter of which was aided by steroids. Therefore it makes sense to put him in as well (at least in this anon’s opinion).

The others I’m not sure about. Clemens ? Probably. The others, well, you guys are more knowledgeable than I because I’m a relative noob to this sport.

Perhaps it was outside of the Federales perview to investigate anything other than the bets made to this specific bookie, as that is how they stumbled on this, to begin with, they were looking at the bookie. The MLB, on the other hand, if they truly cared, could do a similar investigation like they did with Pete, to put all doubters like me to rest. If the investigation is completely transparent, and it completely exonerates Ohtani, even a Doubting Thomas like I, would be satisfied. The issue is, that the MLB, I do not believe, really cares about this beyond it being a PR issue. Sure, they don't want their players betting on the game, but they are also in bed with Gambling websites with lucrative sponsorship deals, so they would be loathe to risk that sponsorship cash via blowback on a gambling scandal.

Yes, Pete should be in the Hall, and so should the steroid cheats as baseball knowingly turned the other cheek while these guys were gassing up and mashing homer after homer and pitchers were throwing faster than ever...and all of that is still going on to this day, lol.

 

[Armor of God]

If Ohtani was the person betting it would make sense that there are no bets on baseball as well. As that would be a major issue beyond him gambling on sports. You think if Pete Rose was betting on college basketball that it would have mattered as much? The problem was that he was betting not only on baseball but on his own team and basically destroying the integrity of the sport.

Ohtani betting on other sports makes him an addict for sure. But not someone directly corrupting the sport like Pete Rose.

The same bank handling billions of dollars in Los Angeles Dodger's business every year? They have an incentive to keep a good relationship with MLB.

What evidence do you have that Ohtani has any gambling history ?

We have thousands of messages between Ippei and the bookie. We have money which moved from the only account that Ippei had access to. We have recordings of Ippei impersonating Ohtani to manipulate the bank into unfreezing that account.

Have you ever heard of Ohtani going to a casino ? Ever heard of him going to Pachinko ? How about card games with team-mates ?

No, because he’s never done any of that. His Angels team-mates’ have all said to a man that Ohtani has little interest in other sports, which would be extremely unusual if he was betting literally 25 times a day.

Again, read the complaint in detail. It’s all there.

Perhaps it was outside of the Federales perview to investigate anything other than the bets made to this specific bookie, as that is how they stumbled on this, to begin with, they were looking at the bookie. The MLB, on the other hand, if they truly cared, could do a similar investigation like they did with Pete, to put all doubters like me to rest. If the investigation is completely transparent, and it completely exonerates Ohtani, even a Doubting Thomas like I, would be satisfied. The issue is, that the MLB, I do not believe, really cares about this beyond it being a PR issue. Sure, they don't want their players betting on the game, but they are also in bed with Gambling websites with lucrative sponsorship deals, so they would be loathe to risk that sponsorship cash via blowback on a gambling scandal.

What exactly would you consider “complete exoneration” ? I’m genuinely curious.

Ippei lied about his college. He tried to become a casino dealer, but failed. Japanese players from the Japan league who came to Arizona for training have claimed that he was teaching them how to play cards and about casinos.

He played soccer in High School and according to the complaint, his very first bets were on soccer.

I’ve already laid out all of the circumstantial history about Shohei’s behavior and how he’s never, ever shown any interest in gambling, casinos or the sportsbook.

Now, if you think that Ohtani was verbally instructing Ippei about placing certain bets and was in on it, then why would Ippei have to go so far as to impersonate Ohtani to the bank ? Ohtani himself could have authorized the transfers personally. That’s not what happened though, hence the need for impersonating him.

The evidence could not be any more clear that Ippei is the one at fault.

What about the $680 million that he deferred ? Do you really think a degenerate gambler wouldn’t want that type of cash ($70 million per year) on hand ?

If there were other Ohtani bank accounts that were linked to bookies then it would be a completely different story…but that isn’t the case either. Are you aware of any other gambling accusations via other Ohtani bank accounts ?

You can call Ohtani stupid. You can call him gullible, and you can certainly call him naive. Based on all of the hard and circumstantial evidence, you cannot in good faith call him a gambler.

You believe Ohtani to be guilty to the point where it’s like challenging the Bible. That’s where your frustration appears to be coming from.

I’m sorry that he’s not the disgusting and no effort nigger without a soul that some of you guys desperately want him to be. It be like that sometimes.

 

[Fleetwood]

I believe that Pete Rose the player should be in the Hall of Fame. I understand that they want to keep him out as a Manager.

He was a player/manager (the final one) from 1984-1986. That complicates separating the playing and managing careers. We're talking November 11, 1986 his last player game to August 24, 1989 his last manager game. The alleged betting on baseball was in 1987.

 

[TheHarbinger]

What evidence do you have that Ohtani has any gambling history ?

The same evidence we all had that Clemens and A-Rod and Bonds were using steroids. It was obvious. I don't need to see them injecting themselves and consulting doctors. Everyone knew that the sport was filled with steroid users and that it was going to be near impossible to clean the sport up entirely. Some players were suspended and others were given a free pass by not only MLB but also congress and the FBI who investigated steroids in baseball. People looked the other way because they wanted to see baseball. Even it was being played by hulking steroid injected freaks.

Same thing will happen now. Lots of players gamble on sports or cards or casino games. They are all sponsored by sports betting sites now. Some of them are literally in commercials telling people to blow their money on gambling. MLB doesn't care that Ohtani was gambling. They just want to sweep things under the rug. Just like they didn't care that Bonds was using steroids. They swept it under the rug and celebrated him breaking the homerun record.

Ohtani had a bank account that was used for gambling away millions. A bookie was not giving a line of credit to gamble to an interpreter for that kind of money. The account that Ippei was using supposedly had over $40million in gambling losses. Where did he get that much money exactly? Ohtani and his accountants don't think a missing $40million is a big deal?

 

[Armor of God]

The same evidence we all had that Clemens and A-Rod and Bonds were using steroids. It was obvious. I don't need to see them injecting themselves and consulting doctors. Everyone knew that the sport was filled with steroid users and that it was going to be near impossible to clean the sport up entirely. Some players were suspended and others were given a free pass by not only MLB but also congress and the FBI who investigated steroids in baseball. People looked the other way because they wanted to see baseball. Even it was being played by hulking steroid injected freaks.

Same thing will happen now. Lots of players gamble on sports or cards or casino games. They are all sponsored by sports betting sites now. Some of them are literally in commercials telling people to blow their money on gambling. MLB doesn't care that Ohtani was gambling. They just want to sweep things under the rug. Just like they didn't care that Bonds was using steroids. They swept it under the rug and celebrated him breaking the homerun record.

Ohtani had a bank account that was used for gambling away millions. A bookie was not giving a line of credit to gamble to an interpreter for that kind of money. The account that Ippei was using supposedly had over $40million in gambling losses. Where did he get that much money exactly? Ohtani and his accountants don't think a missing $40million is a big deal?

You very clearly have not read the actual complaint in detail.

Mizuhara asked to be "bumped" by the bookies several times over the years that he was gambling. What is a "bump" exactly ?

“Bump” is slang in illegal bookmaking to refer to increasing the credit line of a bettor who owes the bookmaker money up to their current limit. For example, a bettor who has a credit limit of $100,000, and owes the bookmaker $100,000, might ask for a “bump” up to a $150,000 limit, thus allowing the bettor to gamble further, in hopes of making up some of their losses. I also know that “bumps” are one method illegal bookmakers use to keep gamblers engaged while encouraging them to pay their balance to the bookmaker.

Let's look at actual correspondence between Mizuhara and the bookies regarding gambling bumps:

1) On or about January 15, 2022, MIZUHARA told BOOKMAKER 2, “Fuck I lost it all lol . . . can you ask [BOOKMAKER 1] if he can bump me 50k? That will be my last one for a while if I lose it.”

2) On or about March 6, 2022, MIZUHARA messaged BOOKMAKER 1 stating, “Anyway you can bump me a little bit? I will wire you my losses on Wednesday if that is ok. I need to wait a week to send another big wire.”

3) On or about March 10, 2022, MIZUHARA messaged BOOKMAKER 1 stating, “Thank you, can you put in 100k instead of 300k?” BOOKMAKER 1 responded, “U mean lower credit to 100?” MIZUHARA confirmed, “Yea, I’ll get too reckless with 300.”

If Ohtani was the one orchestrating it all then why was Mizuhara transferring whatever winnings he had to his own personal bank account ?

1) Based on my review of bank records and messages extracted from the BOOKMAKER 1’s Phone, I am aware that MIZUHARA had his gambling winnings from BOOKMMAKER 1 deposited into his (MIZUHARA’s) personal bank account.

2) For example: a. In or about May 2022, BOOKMAKER 1 communicated with an associate saved in BOOKMAKER 1’s phone as “[Name] Indian Book.” Based on my training, experience, and the context of the saved contact information, I believe this individual to be involved in bookmaking (“BOOKMAKER 3”).

3) On or about May 18, 2022, BOOKMAKER 3 asked BOOKMAKER 1, “Send me wire info please.” Later that day, BOOKMAKER 1 responded with a screenshot of wire information for an account ending in x9877 and a message stating “Name of account is. ippei Mizuhara.”

4) Bank A subsequently provided records that confirmed that the account ending in x9877 is in fact registered in the name of MIZUHARA (hereinafter, the “MIZUHARA Account”).

5) Based on my review of messages extracted from the MIZUHARA Phone, I am aware that on or about May 19, 2022, BOOKMAKER 1 messaged MIZUHARA, stating “I hope ur having a great day. I was just confirming that you received the ach [wire transfer] for the 47,260? Also just confirming you still want me to wire more before I do? I see your [sic] down now so Lmk? Ty bud.” MIZUHARA responded the same day, “Yes I received it, thank you very much. And no you do not need to wire anymore since I’m down again haha.”

6) Based on my review of bank records, I am aware that on May 18, 2022, the MIZUHARA Account received a wire transfer for $47,260.

More bumps and extensions of lines of credit:

1) After May 2022, the text messages from the MIZUHARA Phone show that MIZUHARA had a “bad run.” Despite owing BOOKMAKER over one million dollars in losses, BOOKMAKER 1 continually increased MIZUHARA’s betting limits. For example, based on my review of messages extracted from the MIZUHARA Phone, I am aware that:

2) On or about November 14, 2022, MIZUHARA messaged BOOKMAKER 1 stating “I’m terrible at this sport betting thing huh? Lol . . . Any chance u can bump me again?? As you know, you don’t have to worry about me not paying!!”

(of course Mizuhara could pay. He had been wiring hundreds of thousands at this point from an account with Ohtani's name on it)

3) On or about December 9, 2022, MIZUHARA messaged BOOKMAKER 1 stating “Can u bump me last 200? I swear on my mom this will be the last ask before I pay it off once I get back to the states. Sorry for keep on asking. . . .” BOOKMAKER 1 responded the same day stating, “Np done bud. Merry Christmas.”

4) On May 20, 2023, BOOKMAKER 1 messaged MIZUHARA stating “I know you’ve been on a bad run. I don’t mind bumping u, I just want to verify that you can send at least 2M on June 1.”

5) On or about June 22, 2023, MIZUHARA messaged BOOKMAKER 1 stating “I got my ass kicked again lol . . . . Any chance I can get one last bump? This will be my last one for a while if I lose it. . . .” BOOKMAKER 1 responded the same day, “Ok bud. I just want to be able to communicate with my partner so he knows expectations. If I can assure him that minimum 500 will be sent every week I can do the bump to whatever you want? It’s just imperative that the 500 is sent every week as you can imagine the figures are very high and just don’t want to not be able to deliver what I tell him[.] FYI I have already paid out of my pocket to him half of the balance that is on the account so whatever is lost every week I have to give him half of the balance that’s why I’m asking these direct important questions.”

6) On or about June 23, 2023, MIZUHARA messaged BOOKMAKER 1 stating “I’m the worst lol . . . can’t catch a break. . . . Can I get one last bump? I swear this is gonna be my last until I get the balance down significantly . . . . I promise this will be the last bump for a while.” BOOKMAKER 1 responded the same day, stating “Ok np. Done.”

7) On or about June 24, 2023, MIZUHARA messaged BOOKMAKER 1 stating, “I have a problem lol. . . . Can I get one last last last bump? This one is for real. . . . Last one for real[.]” BOOKMAKER 1 responded the same day, stating “Done ✔ ܥܤܣ. I have the same problem ●◐◑◒◓◔◕. To be honest with you Ippie, as long as you can guarantee the 500 every Monday I’ll give you as much as you want because I know you’re good for it[.] again I just have to clean it up with my partner and that’s one reason why I was asking before.”

(the underlined portions are important because this shows that the bookie was fine to keep letting Mizuhara bet on lines of credit as long as he made the regular payments of $500 K. This is very common in the world of underground betting, similar to a vig or vigorish on a loan from loan sharks)

On or about November 17, 2023, BOOKMAKER 1 messaged MIZUHARA stating, “Hey Ippie, it’s 2 o’clock on Friday. I don’t know why you’re not returning my calls. I’m here in Newport Beach and I see [Victim A] walking his dog. I’m just gonna go up and talk to him and ask how I can get in touch with you since you’re not responding? Please call me back immediately.”

(this is also an important point. The bookie knew exactly who Ohtani was, as he threatens Mizuhara here with approaching Ohtani in Newport Beach. This is why and how he was allowed to bet on credit for millions of dollars. The bookie has the cash to cover a line of credit to a gambler and as long as he can collect his "vig" regularly, he's fine to continue. Again, this is extremely common in the underground gambling world)

One last point that you're also mistaken about: Mizuhara's gambling losses amounted in liabilities of $40 million. Of this, he paid back about $15 million over the years by siphoning funds from Ohtani's account. There was no $40 million missing from Ohtani, because only $15 million of the liability was paid back to the bookies. Ohtani's accountants and finance people also did not have any access to this account, as has been discussed previously (again, read the complaint).

I've laid out in exhausting detail about all of the circumstantial evidence of Ohtani's behavior over the years being inconsistent with a gambler. Other players may bet but most are very open about it. They follow other sports, they visit casinos, they have sportsbook sponsoring their podcasts, the post about their winning tickets on social media and they talk about their gambling activity openly. Ohtani does none of this.

I know what it feels like to desperately want something to be true, but the facts above simply do not support the argument that Ohtani is a gambler or a gambling addict in any way, shape or form. Let's not be disingenuous about this guys.

Once again, please read the actual complaint in its entirety.

 

[Cpl. Long Dong Silver]

Now that I've gone back and read the complaint several times, here is where I personally stand:

The most damning evidence is that there are records of Ippei impersonating Ohtani (voice recordings, device IDs and IP addresses) to manipulate the bank into making transfers.

His mega cringe exchanges with the bookies are garden variety degenerate gambler tier.

Ohtani surrendered his phone and the investigators couldn't find any mention of gambling upon reviewing thousands of messages (with Ippei and also others).

Ippei's admissions of his guilt to the bookie are damning as well.

Ohtani is innocent. If you're still not convinced then we're in "faith" territory where even facing a mountain of hard evidence to the contrary, you believe something to be true.

Nigger no one cares

In non sperg news had a great day watching the Rays beat up the Giants to win the series.

It was bark at the park day so I got to take my dog and enjoy the 9-3 win.

 

[Meat Target]

So today I learned about the Savannah Bananas and Banana Ball, and it’s pretty entertaining to watch.

They do flips and shit, dress up in costumes, do choreographed dance routines, they have a guy play on stilts, fans who catch foul balls are counted as outs, they got a couple of retired MLB players in to pitch for an inning. It’s wacky and all in good fun. I wish I found out about it sooner because it’s honestly a blast.

If you wanna be a clown, join the circus. Don't pretend you're revolutionizing the sport when all you're doing is fucking around.

The rules of Bananaball are interesting, but the stilts and kilts and cowboy hats are just gay. Baseball is plenty of fun without "LOL so wacky and random!" tomfoolery. Tryharding at being funny is just as cringe as being disproportionately competitive.

 

[Armor of God]

What's especially frustrating as a Braves fan is that he's basically immune to any kind of critique by the larger fan base or you'll be immediately labeled a racist.

You're fucking delusional if you don't see the consistent lack of effort throughout the season, both on base and in the outfield.

Elite skillset for sure but goddamn, I hate what he's done for any kind of discourse.

Damn, so he's a lazy monkey out in the field as well ? Is trying to steal bases the only thing he does with consistent effort ?

I was re-watching some of the clips and it seems as though he'll hit one deep and start sashaying like a faggot to 1st base, almost trying to create Insta moments with his fucking bat flips, only to see the ball drop down to Earth and thereby miss an easy chance for a double.

Jesus, this is the kind of shit that they want to promote ? Oh wait, I forgot about current year and its general faggotry.

I've been watching some videos on the topic of the pitcher injury epidemic and was wondering about what you guys thought.

It's pretty much universally accepted that trying to throw 100 mph on several pitches per inning simply puts strain on your ligaments and tendons that the body cannot withstand.

However, what about the pitch clock ? How much of a factor is it really ?

Are there even guys in the league left who throw fastballs in that Greg Maddux range of high 80's to low 90's ? I read that he was considered the greatest finesse pitcher of all time but I was curious as to whether or not that archetype is even a thing.

As I watch games, it seems to my noob eye that all of the pitchers are hard throwing guys (with some exceptions) who will always have a propensity to get hurt.

 

[GloryHole Stalker]

I've been watching some videos on the topic of the pitcher injury epidemic and was wondering about what you guys thought.

It's pretty much universally accepted that trying to throw 100 mph on several pitches per inning simply puts strain on your ligaments and tendons that the body cannot withstand.

However, what about the pitch clock ? How much of a factor is it really ?

Are there even guys in the league left who throw fastballs in that Greg Maddux range of high 80's to low 90's ? I read that he was considered the greatest finesse pitcher of all time but I was curious as to whether or not that archetype is even a thing.

As I watch games, it seems to my noob eye that all of the pitchers are hard throwing guys (with some exceptions) who will always have a propensity to get hurt.

Easy Peasy solution, limit the number of pitchers teams are allowed to carry, or call up from the minors. This will force pitchers to pitch like they used to. With an eye towards pacing themselves and saving the really hard stuff for when they really need it. You will see the number of pitcher injuries decrease almost instantly (not counting PED related injuries).

This would need to be coupled with "dejuicing" the ball as well so the PED monkeys at the plate aren't just teeing off on the slower pitching. And as a consequence, the game will become more entertaining as teams will also be forced to do the tried and true "get-em-on, get-em-over". There will be more fan investment on every pitch and at bat, rather than fans just sitting around, holding their puds, waiting for the next homerun.

Problem solved. See how easy that was, lol.

The likelihood the (((faggots))) in charge of the MLB will do this...zero.

EDIT: I like the pitch clock as a temporary rule, as it also stops the batters from fucking around between pitches. Seeing faggots like Nomar Garciparra do their retarded "rituals" between every pitch used to make my blood boil. LOL.

 

[Armor of God]

The likelihood the (((faggots))) in charge of the MLB will do this...zero.

How do rules get amended at the MLB ? Do the owners get together and vote like the NFL ?

This would need to be coupled with "dejuicing" the ball as well so the PED monkeys at the plate aren't just teeing off on the slower pitching. And as a consequence, the game will become more entertaining as teams will also be forced to do the tried and true "get-em-on, get-em-over". There will be more fan investment on every pitch and at bat, rather than fans just sitting around, holding their puds, waiting for the next homerun.

I recall Jimmy Herget on the Angels, who I followed quite a bit because of Ohtani. I actually really enjoyed watching him pitch because it was completely different from every other wannabe "power pitcher" or whatever the fuck they think they are.

Looking at Maddux, it's insane that he averaged 25-30 games player per season for practically his entire career. When Ohtani gets back to pitching, I honestly want him to cut down on his velocity to the point where he only goes for the super heater a few times a game (max). With his height and the movement he seems to get at will, there's no reason as to why he couldn't be effective with a 92 mph "stock" fastball. Or am I mistaken ?

 

[GloryHole Stalker]

How do rules get amended at the MLB ? Do the owners get together and vote like the NFL ?



I recall Jimmy Herget on the Angels, who I followed quite a bit because of Ohtani. I actually really enjoyed watching him pitch because it was completely different from every other wannabe "power pitcher" or whatever the fuck they think they are.

Looking at Maddux, it's insane that he averaged 25-30 games player per season for practically his entire career. When Ohtani gets back to pitching, I honestly want him to cut down on his velocity to the point where he only goes for the super heater a few times a game (max). With his height and the movement he seems to get at will, there's no reason as to why he couldn't be effective with a 92 mph "stock" fastball. Or am I mistaken ?

They have a rules meeting in the offseason and they (they being the (((analytic eggheads, faggots and niggers))) that run baseball decide what rules they are going to change or implement.

I live on the East Coast, and my team is the Phillies, I also work overnights so I'm limited on the amount of baseball I end up following during the year, so I'm not really familiar with Ohtani's pitching style and overall ability.

As baseball currently stands, if he could transition into being a finesse pitcher that is not there to blow shit by the hitter for big strikeout totals, and instead just induces bad contact (something the pitchers of yore excelled at) he might be able to get by, but during the transition into getting the game back to the way it was played 30 years ago and before, they'd need to "dejuice" the ball so the PED soaked hitters aren't just blasting it into the next county while the pitchers learn how to pitch again.

EDIT: Once upon a time, the better pitchers could average 10-15 or more complete games a year. in 2021 (the most recent info I just googled, lol) there were 33 complete games pitched total, leaguewide. Fuckin sad... but somehow despite the total of innings pitched being down (the (((faggot, analytic eggheads))) assured us that this would decrease pitcher injuries) pitchers are crumbling at an ever increasing rate, lol. faggots.

 

[Meat Target]

EDIT: Once upon a time, the better pitchers could average 10-15 or more complete games a year. in 2021 (the most recent info I just googled, lol) there were 33 complete games pitched total, leaguewide. Fuckin sad... but somehow despite the total of innings pitched being down (the (((faggot, analytic eggheads))) assured us that this would decrease pitcher injuries) pitchers are crumbling at an ever increasing rate, lol. faggots.

It's because pitchers are throwing harder as the years pass. You now have high schoolers getting Tommy John surgery (either because they actually need it from blowing out their arms, or because ethically-challenged doctors convinced them of the myth that it makes you throw harder).

One prospect from Korea who was only like 21 died recently from an embolism caused during Tommy John.

The human body isn't supposed to endure punishment that intense for such a sustained period of time. Softball girls, meanwhile, can regularly pitch complete games, because throwing underhand is a more natural arm motion.

Maybe they should amend their rules on not using electronics and start looking at cyberpunk augmentations. Or they could just stop trying to produce the next Randy Johnson, because throwing and/or hitting a 95 mph fastball is already an impressive feat. I've always thought they could liven up the game with more offense.

 

[GloryHole Stalker]

It's because pitchers are throwing harder as the years pass. You now have high schoolers getting Tommy John surgery (either because they actually need it from blowing out their arms, or because ethically-challenged doctors convinced them of the myth that it makes you throw harder).

One prospect from Korea who was only like 21 died recently from an embolism caused during Tommy John.

The human body isn't supposed to endure punishment that intense for such a sustained period of time. Softball girls, meanwhile, can regularly pitch complete games, because throwing underhand is a more natural arm motion.

Maybe they should amend their rules on not using electronics and start looking at cyberpunk augmentations. Or they could just stop trying to produce the next Randy Johnson, because a 95 mph fastball is already an impressive feat. I've always thought they could liven up the game with more offense.

Oh sure, I know why it's happening. These faggots and retards decided to go this route in the name of injury reduction. Some, warned when they started to pull guys early years back, that rather than reduce injuries, this would encourage pitchers to go harder, and it might actually create more injuries. Well, here we are, injuries are up and the (((PTB))) of the MLB are holding their dicks wondering why they can't field consistent pitching staffs.


EDIT: sentence clarification.

 

[Neighborhood Janny]

I've been watching some videos on the topic of the pitcher injury epidemic and was wondering about what you guys thought.

It's pretty much universally accepted that trying to throw 100 mph on several pitches per inning simply puts strain on your ligaments and tendons that the body cannot withstand.

However, what about the pitch clock ? How much of a factor is it really ?

Are there even guys in the league left who throw fastballs in that Greg Maddux range of high 80's to low 90's ? I read that he was considered the greatest finesse pitcher of all time but I was curious as to whether or not that archetype is even a thing.

As I watch games, it seems to my noob eye that all of the pitchers are hard throwing guys (with some exceptions) who will always have a propensity to get hurt.

I've been taking in a lot of opinions on it, but it keeps coming back to one thing: velocity and spin rate. The pitch clock has been a good change overall, but I don't think it has affected the game in a massively negative way to be causing this amount of severe injuries. As analytics have become more of a focus, it has changed the way you can approach the game. It's no secret that having high velocity with high amount of spin is going to confuse hitters and get them to swing more often at pitches that would be considered terrible 20 years ago. Now, every player from at least high school through the minors is focused on those two variables and it has lead to increasing amounts of Tommy John surgeries over the last few years. I can't remember where I read it, but the top surgeon for Tommy John has been doing these surgeries on high schoolers and then sees them a few years later to do it again. He went from 5 or 6 surgeries a year to over 35 for Tommy John. We are going to see a lot of young talent suffer because the analytics nerds like velocity and spin rate for pitchers.

Overall I don't think the pitch clock is an issue here. If someone says it is, they're a boomer who can't get used to the fact that things are changing. The pitch clock has made games much faster and the pace is something that is more exciting for the normies who only watch on TV. For those of us that go to games and want to get inside the meta of it all, the pitch clock has made going to games a more enjoyable experience because we don't have to watch batters grab their dick after every pitch and watch pitchers walk around the mound. A baseball game that lasts 2.5 hours is better than one that lasts 4 hours.

As for your example of Greg Maddux (and as someone who got to see him pitch), there really aren't those kind of starting pitchers in MLB anymore. You also have to remember that, at the time Maddux was pitching, it wasn't about how fast you got the ball from the mound to the plate, it was about ball placement and vertical/horizontal movement. Maddux didn't have an insanely fast heater, but he did have an elite sense of ball placement and pitch mix. He threw a 4-seam, 2-seam sinker, curve, slider, and a very ugly splitter/changeup. He also knew he could get guys to swing if the ball was low, so he would very often aim his sinker and splitter towards the lower third of the strike zone and it would immediately drop as the batter began his swing. That was an entirely different time for the game because it was more about playing mind games with your opponent. Those pitchers don't exist anymore, which is why it is so depressing looking back on guys like Randy Johnson or Greg Maddux and wishing they were still around to play. Until we get the focus off of analytics, this is only going to get worse.

 

[Meat Target]

Maddux didn't have an insanely fast heater, but he did have an elite sense of ball placement and pitch mix. He threw a 4-seam, 2-seam sinker, curve, slider, and a very ugly splitter/changeup.

R.A. Dickey is the only junkballer I can think of from recent memory. They sadly seem to be a dying breed.

Of course, learning to throw junk is also hard, and can be just as rough on your arm as throwing fireballs.

ETA: I agree that the pitch clock keeps things moving. There should also be a limited number of foul balls before it's considered a strikeout. It's obnoxious when a guy just keeps fouling off pitches he doesn't like indefinitely. If you're skilled enough to foul it off intentionally, you should be skilled enough to put it in play.

the game will become more entertaining as teams will also be forced to do the tried and true "get-em-on, get-em-over".

And that's why the early-to-mid 2010s were such a fun time for the game. Small ball fuckin' rules.

 

[Local Fed]

R.A. Dickey is the only junkballer I can think of from recent memory.

Steven Wright was with Boston during the mid-to-late-2000s and even made the AL All-Star team in 2016. Matt Waldron, who debuted last season, is a starter for the Padres. Outside of that though it's pretty thin. Dickey and Tim Wakefield are really the last two knuckleballers with actual longevity and name recognition for anyone who isn't a hardcore fan.

 

[Armor of God]

I've been taking in a lot of opinions on it, but it keeps coming back to one thing: velocity and spin rate. The pitch clock has been a good change overall, but I don't think it has affected the game in a massively negative way to be causing this amount of severe injuries. As analytics have become more of a focus, it has changed the way you can approach the game. It's no secret that having high velocity with high amount of spin is going to confuse hitters and get them to swing more often at pitches that would be considered terrible 20 years ago. Now, every player from at least high school through the minors is focused on those two variables and it has lead to increasing amounts of Tommy John surgeries over the last few years. I can't remember where I read it, but the top surgeon for Tommy John has been doing these surgeries on high schoolers and then sees them a few years later to do it again. He went from 5 or 6 surgeries a year to over 35 for Tommy John. We are going to see a lot of young talent suffer because the analytics nerds like velocity and spin rate for pitchers.

Thank you for such a detailed explanation. I’m glad to hear that the pitch clock is not necessarily a debilitating factor for pitchers. The idea though that even High School kids are going though dozens of Tommy John surgeries is very concerning. Your body is supposed to be practically indestructible at that point (especially for wear and tear injuries...ACL tears and shit, I can understand).

They have a rules meeting in the offseason and they (they being the (((analytic eggheads, faggots and niggers))) that run baseball decide what rules they are going to change or implement.

To the 2 of you, don’t get me started on these analytics faggots. They’ve pretty much ruined every sport that I followed fervently in the past. I don't know if you guys follow Football, but it's absolutely rife with these retard tier takes. You get to a 4th down call and they just have to show this "well the analytics powered by Amazon Web Services says that you have a 41% chance of converting it" graphic. Just cringe and infuriating really.

As if the momentum at that moment of time, how gassed your guys are on the drive and the concentration level of your nose guard who just had one of his side bitches hit him with a pregnancy don't have to be taken into account...that's why coaches exist in the 1st place. What's next ? 2 AI systems literally just calling in the plays based on analytics alone ?