The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

Is there any evidence that they were tipping Germans out of wheelchairs and into the furnaces or is it just fiction?

Probably just fiction. Although if it is true, it's better than the alternative offered by the Allies.

Being a mongo/spaz in say Britain or most of Europe at the time meant being chained to a bed in your own piss and shit. Usually physically, mentally and sexually abused by the very people charged with looking after you. Not to mention the enlightning medical "treatments" such as frontal lobe lobotomy, electro shock "therapy" etc you'd be subjected to.

Funny thing is they where still doing all the above well into the late 1970's, 25/30 years after the evil nazis where defeated. They even used forced sterilization unwillingly on thousands of woman in the UK/USA during the 1970's who had learning difficulties etc. without there knowledge/consent.

I think I would have prefered to be tipped in the furnace or shot in the head given the choice.
 
Right-winger Devon Stack discussed Fred Leuchter who testified in the Ernst Zündel matter.


I am about 45:00 in. It raises some interesting points. I still think Holocaust revisionism of this sort will never accomplish anything. "A mere detail in history," a famous quip Jean Marie le Pen, matters brought up in The Holocaust History and similar tracts are much more effective.
 
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Germans loved Je᠎ws so much, that they built camps for them. Camps with swimming pools, dentists, doctors, football teams, plays. But they really really loved Je᠎ws so much, that they wanted to give them a special gift. What does man love more than anything else, thought the German? Why work, of course. So they gave them more work than they could ever complete in their life, so big was the German's love for the J᠎ews. Because the Germans knew, arbeit macht frei.

But in their love, they made an error. J᠎ews are not like Germans. Despite their superior intellect, they have a kryptonite, an achilles heel, fatal flaw with which they can be brought down. Work. Oh how the Germans cried out when the more gifts they gave the Je᠎ws, the more of their favorite friends died. So deep was the German's grief of the loss of their friends, that they managed to run their crematoriums at speeds never rivalled before or after. And so heartbroken were the Je᠎ws at feeling betrayed by their greatest ally, that they found a new greatest ally across the ocean.

And the J᠎ew knew the German's hearts and that there never was ill will in them, not even when they were machinegunning Je᠎ws by the thousands. Surely the high command can't be blamed for local Germans not obeying orders, as Germans are prone to. Certainly they knew that the Final Solution was simply the quest to find the greatest gift to give to Je᠎ws, and the Je᠎w planned similar parties like The Morgenthau Surprise Party Plan, which would have led to to millions of Germans re-uniting with their favorite friend in the afterlife.

Of course when the war was over, the Je᠎ws looked at the price Germans had paid for the loving gestures toward them and thought to give them a gift worth giving back. And the Je᠎ws knew there is nothing better than a Je᠎w, so to truly give a gift worth giving to the Germans, we're going to hug and Je᠎᠎w the crap out of them. Everyone loves lawsuits right? Let's have some celebratory tribunals. And let's treat the Germans the way Mengele treated Je᠎ws. And in their love, the Je᠎ws too made an error, for a German will spend days trying to correct a form error, let alone complete mistrials.

And of course the Je᠎ws felt bad for all the destroyed land that came out of the rocky friendship between Germans and Je᠎ws. They planned some nice land development, some tourist attractions, some fictional gas chambers, like a really depressing disney land. Of course they got some details wrong, like wooden door, lack of holes in the roof, but it's the fantasy that counts. Because even if it's proven false, it was real in their mind. And your mind. And your children's minds.

And they lived happily ever after.
I wrote this? Maybe I really do need to stop drinking.
 
Have any of you watched that documentary The Greatest Story Never Told? It's like 6 hours long and I'm only 1/3 of the way through but this is fascinating stuff if true, completely turning the story as commonly told on its head
Don't even dislike Hitler or nazism in particular but acting as if Hitler was this wholesome 100 saint who loved all races in the world and wanted world peace is incredibly cucked, you are going against the very basis of your ideology just to accomodate to the liberal discourse of human rights. Of course Hitler wanted to conquer vast tracts of territory for Germany, of course Hitler didn't give a shit about the life of slavs, of course Hitler wanted his own imperial nation buidling programme, and that is not necessarily a bad thing - EVERY single empire in history has had similar goals, the only difference is that the germans (and, if we are honest, Europeans in general) scaled them up with the many industrial advancements of the modern era. Is it that hard to admit? I would take nazis (or natsocs, however you want to call them) more seriously if they didn't try to white wash everything, of course, the reivindication of nazism is important to an extent, but acting as if they dindu nuffin is absurd.
 
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Apologies if this was brought up but if the real number of Jews in Germany at the time was 600k then is it quite likely the only reason the Jews decided on the 6mil number was because all they had to do is add another zero on the end and gas light people into believing there was always an extra zero there?


Don't even dislike Hitler or nazism in particular but acting as if Hitler was this wholesome 100 saint who loved all races in the world and wanted world peace is incredibly cucked, you are going against the very basis of your ideology just to accomodate to the liberal discourse of human rights. Of course Hitler wanted to conquer vast tracts of territory for Germany, of course Hitler didn't give a shit about the life of slavs, of course Hitler wanted his own imperial nation buidling programme, and that is not necessarily a bad thing - EVERY single empire in history has had similar goals, the only difference is that the germans (and, if we are honest, Europeans in general) scaled them up with the many industrial advancements of the modern era. Is it that hard to admit? I would take nazis (or natsocs, however you want to call them) more seriously if they didn't try to white wash everything, of course, the reivindication of nazism is important to an extent, but acting as if they dindu nuffin is absurd.

To be truly right wing is to acknowledge that human tribalism is natural and it's human nature to better the lives of your own people at the cost of the other. It's just that we whites have been atomized over 100 years to think it's wrong to do so. Perhaps the modern natsocs don't even realize that they are pushing this modern way of thinking backwards and trying to mix it into the motivations of WW2 Germany.
 
The Holocaust is the greatest myth of our times. It's a literal "I win" card for kikes as they poison the entire world with their shit. They cannot be criticized because of muh Holocaust.

NSDAP Germany seized Jewish assets and sent them to work camps. That's what they were.

These work camps had soccer leagues, brothels, swimming pools, dental care provision, etc.

Why kill a group of people when you can enslave them for a minimal cost and actually get them to be productive for the Reich ?

Zyklon B was used to treat the clothing of the prisoners because there were typhoid epidemics.

3,000 babies were born in Auschwitz. Yes, in a death camp, the prisoners were allowed to fuck, to carry pregnancies to term and to deliver the children successfully. Really ? Why go through all of that trouble when you can just shoot the expecting mother ?

The gas chamber doors were made of wood. Compare those gas chambers to actual gas chambers that were used in inmate executions in the latter half of the 20th century.

So many pictures with all of the corpses were altered and doctored. Yes, tens of thousands, of people died from typhoid and also from starvation due to the Allied bombings of the camp supply lines.

Lastly, the 6 million figure is a fucking meme. There were newspapers from the late 19th century which referred to any and all crises involving kikes with this 6 million figure.
 
The Holocaust happened.

It was not 6 million. Not 11. About 2 million jews, maybe. Add in about the same amount of non-jews and a extra 1 million slavs on the grey area between partisan rebuttal and genocide.

Loads of Holocaust Deniers don't understand the issue. The "6 million baked cookies in 4 years" is so retarded I almost feel like it is a psyop, but I know it isn't because of how Holocaust Worshipers never address it correctly how it should be addressed. (Tl;Dr it's retarded because it assumes every jew was regular sized adult of average weight, cremated fully to ash which is not the case and no Holocaust Worshiper ever said so. And on the other side none of the kikes kvetching about it like say Ben "Immigration for America not Israel" Shapiro never point this obvious fucking reply and instead just kvetch about "muh holohoax oy vey antisemistism this is annudah shoa")

The Holocaust was literally just a footnote on WW2 history until the 1970's when it suddenly jumped into the cultural conciousness of the western world. In a suspiciously timed manner I might add, as most of the primary sources and historical figures of WW2 were gone by then (Including Eichmann, who was blamed for a lot of it and conveniently killed by Israel and a key witness on the Nazi-Zionist cooperation of the 1930s) and Israel started facing a lot of scrutiny and loss of support following the aftermath of the Yom Kippur war and the whole Oil Embargo thing which made a lot of people in the western world go "Wait a second why are we supporting Israel anyway?"

At this point the entire thing has been so propagandized, distorted, mythologized and wrapped in near-religious fervor that American Jews consider it a bigger part of their Judaism to kvetch about the Holocaust than stuff like respecting religious laws and adherence to the sabbath, which is not the case in Israel. It's too precious a cow to put down, they can't stop milking it. And in the end it is gonna be the Boy who cried Wolf all over again.
 
And in the end it is gonna be the Boy who cried Wolf all over again.
wolf.jpg
 
NSDAP Germany seized Jewish assets and sent them to work camps. That's what they were.
Yes, this is true. There was a death camp inside the work camp.
These work camps had soccer leagues, brothels, swimming pools, dental care provision, etc.
These were for different subgroups. The four largest camps in Eastern Poland, each, had an area of dozens of square miles of facilities.

They contained a mixture of slave labour and skilled labour. Skilled labourers from "some" subgroups were permitted and paid - such as German Communists. Jewish skilled labourers were killed, out of fear they would sabotage the operations.

Why kill a group of people when you can enslave them for a minimal cost and actually get them to be productive for the Reich?
Slavery.

Zyklon B was used to treat the clothing of the prisoners because there were typhoid epidemics.
Hydrogen cyanide was used experimentally. It holds a whole bunch of different risks, and there were efforts post-war to explain its use as a primary killing mechanism. This was one of many different methods of killing which were tried - it kinda worked, but not very well. To this day, nobody has any fucking idea how exactly shit went down.

There is a lot of correspondence between the Auschwitz facility and Goebbels demonstrating that the Nazi leadership were fucking retards, and that the staff inside Auschwitz were given contradictory, and often impossible tasks. This is where your dumb shit comes from. Some people, typically Arabs, present information which they know is false as fact, then argue against it.

The gas chamber doors were made of wood. Compare those gas chambers to actual gas chambers that were used in inmate executions in the latter half of the 20th century.
Or, compare them to the gas chambers in Germany, found in hospitals where they executed the disabled.

The accusation against Germany was that the had modified the showers to serve as a DIY gas chamber. You can use any one of several other methods to do that, with a wooden door. This is why nobody has any idea how shit went down. There are far too many people, such as yourself, who don't understand basic shit and will never accept reality even when it's infront of you.

3,000 babies were born in Auschwitz. Yes, in a death camp, the prisoners were allowed to fuck, to carry pregnancies to term and to deliver the children successfully. Really ? Why go through all of that trouble when you can just shoot the expecting mother ?
Born in Birkenau?

So many pictures with all of the corpses were altered and doctored. Yes, tens of thousands, of people died from typhoid and also from starvation due to the Allied bombings of the camp supply lines.
lol

Lastly, the 6 million figure is a fucking meme. There were newspapers from the late 19th century which referred to any and all crises involving kikes with this 6 million figure.
Yes, that's roughly two-thirds of the Jewish population of Europe. The two-thirds which lived in Poland, Ukraine, Belarus and Russia.

As you may be aware, there were a lot of events which affected that area from the late 19th century to the mid 20th century.
The Holocaust was literally just a footnote on WW2 history until the 1970's when it suddenly jumped into the cultural conciousness of the western world.
The USA, specifically. The UK and France were well-aware of it.

It came alongside the shift to supporting Israel - the USA was outright hostile to Israel until the 70s, hence so much holocaust denial coming from the USA.

The creation of Israel by the British pissed off the Arabs, and led to the Suez Crisis. America saw its opportunity, again, to build its influence in the Middle East by propping up Islamism and Arab Nationalism.

So they started trying to bully Israel into accepting a blockade by America's new best friend, the Egyptian dictator Nasser. When Israel won in the Six-Day War, Israel even flexed at the USA by bombing a ship - they knew it was an American ship, but was there to spy on them to support the Arab countries in their invasion of Israel.

A lot of Americans still believe the propaganda, by the way - most of the world, especially Europe, see Arabs as deranged, war-like barbarians who rape everything that moves. It's only the USA where the Arab world is seen as, somehow, morally strict - nope, they bum little boys and steal everything they can.

After that, the Americans started trying to pretend they were Israel's friend the whole time. This is why they say shit like "bleeding America dry", by the way - there's a strong sense, especially among old Israelis, that America is a threat that will stab them in the back at the first opportunity. So, they want to get as much as they can from the Americans before they, inevitably, sell them out.

America's interest in propping up their own empire on the remains of the old Ottoman Empire aren't really a secret in Israel - they developed their own nuclear weapons, in secret, to avoid the fate of Bangladesh.

Their biggest allies were apartheid South Africa/Rhodesia, and weirdly, the Czechs.
 

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Ever get curious why nearly all of the tattoos recorded were 5 digit numbers? From time to time there'd be a letter on them. For millions to have ate it you'd think we'd see a lot more of the higher numbers.

Secondly, why would you waste time branding anyone you didn't intend to keep alive? Which is the entire purpose of branding anything. Why did only Jews get them? They weren't the only ones in the camps. Sure is strange isn't it?

I went to Auschwitz when I was a younger. In my 20s I went to Cambodia and saw the Killing Fields. In Cambodia its mountains of skulls and bones. But in the USA, and Germany, its always the fucking shoes.
 
Yes, that's roughly two-thirds of the Jewish population of Europe. The two-thirds which lived in Poland, Ukraine, Belarus and Russia.

As you may be aware, there were a lot of events which affected that area from the late 19th century to the mid 20th century.

Did 6 million Jews die during the “Holocaust” ?
 
They cannot be criticized because of muh Holocaust.
this only works on empathetic white evangelicals or white western euros tbh. Now that europe is fully replaced by sub sarahans and "syrians" and america is being replaced with basically everyone but whites this won't be the exodia play it was in the last half century.

the only response to the holocaust card will be "WHACHU SAY WYTEBOI?" or "INSHALLAH DIE KUFFIR". Congrats to the 75 percent of jews that vote blue no matter who, hope getting mean orange man out of power was worth it all.
 
Did 6 million Jews die during the “Holocaust” ?
Why do you write your questions with the punctuation like that? Are you French?

No, the highest estimate is 5,800,000 - based off of the number who disappeared. This includes those who died in combat, and is not limited to those who died during the Endlösung der Judenfrage.

Is this going to be some battle with someone who barely understands English, basic maths, basic mechanics and chemistry, about events which he really isn't interested in and is only looking to justify his own retardation?


Ever get curious why nearly all of the tattoos recorded were 5 digit numbers? From time to time there'd be a letter on them. For millions to have ate it you'd think we'd see a lot more of the higher numbers.
There were ~400,000 prisoners who went through the different subcamps as POWs or as civilian slave labour.
 
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I remember watching David Cole, a Jew, and Mark Weber going on the Montell Williams show back in the 90's and presenting the most incredible arguments against the common Holocaust narrative.

I also watched David Cole's documentary where he goes to Auschwitz and shows the improbability of what is taught about the alleged events.

It's amazing that Cole had to go into hiding due to death threats, all for asking pertinent questions.

Which brings me to an important point about debating the Holocaust...that you're not even allowed to. They'll let you debate every other topic under the sun. Hell, Vaush will argue in favor of pedos and Destiny will talk about how incest isn't wrong. These arguments are not only allowed, but these motherfuckers have made literal millions while suffering no repercussions for being sick pieces of shit.

If the Holocaust really happened, then why can't we openly debate about it ? If the facts are so incredibly strong then shouldn't the argument in favor of the Holocaust being real be able to stand on their own merits ?

No, you're not allowed to because it's one of the most heavily fabricated lies in human history. It's why we're having to have these debates on the fucking Kiwi Farms and not out in the open.
 
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So they started trying to bully Israel into accepting a blockade by America's new best friend, the Egyptian dictator Nasser. When Israel won in the Six-Day War, Israel even flexed at the USA by bombing a ship - they knew it was an American ship, but was there to spy on them to support the Arab countries in their invasion of Israel.

You got the timeline a bit wrong. The USA was friendly to Nasser at first and during the Suez Crisis yes but that friendship quickly dried up as Nasser kept playing the USA and USSR against each other for more gibs. Buy the time of the 6 Day War they were firmly anti-Nasser already.

I have actually heard a convincing argument that the reason for the USS Liberty attack was Lyndon Johnson wanting another Gulf of Tonkin and this is why there was so much secrecy and refusal to address it. The false flag failed because those sailors refused to die and go down like they were supposed to to justify attacking Egypt.

Their biggest allies were apartheid South Africa/Rhodesia, and weirdly, the Czechs.

Probably something to do with the Jewish Ghetto in Prague and good memories of a relatively stable and good relationship with the Bohemians.
 
As always another group of retards with no critical thinking abilities show up at the behest of the JIDF to push the holocaust show up like clockwork. All with less brains than the last.


The Holocaust happened.

It was not 6 million. Not 11. About 2 million jews, maybe. Add in about the same amount of non-jews and a extra 1 million slavs on the grey area between partisan rebuttal and genocide.
no it didnt, and its trivially easy to disprove anyone who says it did.
Loads of Holocaust Deniers don't understand the issue. The "6 million baked cookies in 4 years" is so retarded I almost feel like it is a psyop, but I know it isn't because of how Holocaust Worshipers never address it correctly how it should be addressed. (Tl;Dr it's retarded because it assumes every jew was regular sized adult of average weight, cremated fully to ash which is not the case and no Holocaust Worshiper ever said so.
the itony is that it isnt a holocaust promoters argument, its a holocaust revisionists argument about how ridiculous the idea of it is. If the logistic process can't fit within the laws of science its a clear lie, and even in our best attempts to make narrative fit reality. It can't be done. The holocaust is that much of a bald faced lie.
At this point the entire thing has been so propagandized, distorted, mythologized and wrapped in near-religious fervor that American Jews consider it a bigger part of their Judaism to kvetch about the Holocaust than stuff like respecting religious laws and adherence to the sabbath, which is not the case in Israel. It's too precious a cow to put down, they can't stop milking it. And in the end it is gonna be the Boy who cried Wolf all over again.
But somehow it still happened. You are almost there.
The Holocaust was literally just a footnote on WW2 history until the 1970's when it suddenly jumped into the cultural conciousness of the western world. In a suspiciously timed manner I might add, as most of the primary sources and historical figures of WW2 were gone by then
The holocaust was a footnote because it never existed and it took jews and their allies time to secure their position before they could push it. Remember the allies had broken all axis encryption prewar, and we have no direct talk of any of it, you know because it's all made up.
Hydrogen cyanide was used experimentally. It holds a whole bunch of different risks, and there were efforts post-war to explain its use as a primary killing mechanism. This was one of many different methods of killing which were tried - it kinda worked, but not very well. To this day, nobody has any fucking idea how exactly shit went down.
Zyklon B is a delousing agent, that's its primary industrial use. There is no experimentally. It's pointless to use as a tool for genocide for the same reasons we stopped using it for war and why Hitler forbade the use of gas. So why would they go against Hitler in gassing people and also use the worst possible gas when they had millions of tons of Sarin gas which killed instantly? Because it's a case of someone trying to square a circle. If you don't have any evidence piecemeal an argument with available facts outside of all context and reality.

Again. No one has any idea because its made up. There are massive amounts of resources requiring long logistic trains to do anything involving millions of people. If you cant point any of it out. Its a lie.
There is a lot of correspondence between the Auschwitz facility and Goebbels demonstrating that the Nazi leadership were fucking retards, and that the staff inside Auschwitz were given contradictory, and often impossible tasks. This is where your dumb shit comes from. Some people, typically Arabs, present information which they know is false as fact, then argue against it.
Those evil genius Germans were so smart and so evil. They were complete retards about it. Hmm. Sounds like you have no idea what you are talking about.
The accusation against Germany was that the had modified the showers to serve as a DIY gas chamber. You can use any one of several other methods to do that, with a wooden door. This is why nobody has any idea how shit went down. There are far too many people, such as yourself, who don't understand basic shit and will never accept reality even when it's infront of you.
Hey look more retardation defending lies and claiming ignorance because you are trying to fit a narrative to a lack of facts. Come on, tell us about all the eye witnesses next!
The USA, specifically. The UK and France were well-aware of it.

It came alongside the shift to supporting Israel - the USA was outright hostile to Israel until the 70s, hence so much holocaust denial coming from the USA.
Its crazy that everyone just decided to love Isreal and there wasn't large and constant blackmail attempts at all levels using honeypots amongst other things. It's also not because America is the only place with freedom of speech and in all affected countries its illegal to question.
The creation of Israel by the British pissed off the Arabs, and led to the Suez Crisis. America saw its opportunity, again, to build its influence in the Middle East by propping up Islamism and Arab Nationalism.
Lol.
So they started trying to bully Israel into accepting a blockade by America's new best friend, the Egyptian dictator Nasser. When Israel won in the Six-Day War, Israel even flexed at the USA by bombing a ship - they knew it was an American ship, but was there to spy on them to support the Arab countries in their invasion of Israel.
Isreal lost the war and told everyone about their secret nukes and their willingness to nuke everyone if they were to ever lose. It's called the Sampson Option. It was a false flag attempt to get the USA to fight their enemies for them. There's also the Lavon affair, showing you hate shit for brains and are just another retarded jew shill.
America's interest in propping up their own empire on the remains of the old Ottoman Empire aren't really a secret in Israel - they developed their own nuclear weapons, in secret, to avoid the fate of Bangladesh.

Their biggest allies were apartheid South Africa/Rhodesia, and weirdly, the Czechs.
This is what jews actually think.
 
Those evil genius Germans were so smart and so evil. They were complete retards about it. Hmm. Sounds like you have no idea what you are talking about.
They were extremely intelligent. Just not Goebbels, who didn't understand what hydrolysis was - despite it being explained to him - and continually pushed for burials and cremation. He would then say "Okay, it's fine" - then angrily come back after having heard rumours of what it might entail, reasserting his initial claims.


It's also not because America is the only place with freedom of speech and in all affected countries its illegal to question.
It was made illegal in 2017, thanks to Muslim immigrants. Holocaust denial, in the UK, was pretty difficult since so many Brits had actually liberated the camps.

It was a false flag attempt to get the USA to fight their enemies for them
lol what

Zyklon B is a delousing agent, that's its primary industrial use. There is no experimentally. It's pointless to use as a tool for genocide for the same reasons we stopped using it for war and why Hitler forbade the use of gas. So why would they go against Hitler in gassing people and also use the worst possible gas when they had millions of tons of Sarin gas which killed instantly? Because it's a case of someone trying to square a circle. If you don't have any evidence piecemeal an argument with available facts outside of all context and reality.
Ease of manufacture, and the fact that it was on-hand. It is a delousing agent - which, if you tried, would kill in sufficient quantities. Why waste Sarin when HCN will suffice? Plus, again, wooden doors. You kinda answer your own questions, then scream about Jews.

Hey look more retardation defending lies and claiming ignorance because you are trying to fit a narrative to a lack of facts. Come on, tell us about all the eye witnesses next!
Ignorance of what?

Isreal lost the war
What?

If the Holocaust really happened, then why can't we openly debate about it ? If the facts are so incredibly strong then shouldn't the argument in favor of the Holocaust being real be able to stand on their own merits ?
We can. Easily. The evidence is overwhelming, and it's not that you're interested in a specific argument or point.

You're still doing the question mark thing, which usually means "This person has a disgusting smell which follows them around" - all of your points, every single one, is bullshit. It takes literally one sentence to undo each point. But you still insist that it's a discussion - it isn't. It's a man brazenly lying and then screaming about being silenced.

It's because you can't be argued with - because you're too dumb. It goes above you - you have some fixation on the idea that Germany couldn't possibly do what "everyone else" failed to do. What you believe is that the Muslim world is equal to Germany in its strength, innovation, intelligence and in general, if you can't understand something - it mustn't have happened.

The reality is that your entire perspective is warped by your third-world mentality. Germany was terrifying - so terrifying that many in Europe are deathly afraid of war, because of how much of a nightmare Germany became. The exact same mentality which had brought the world to modernity - the European "magic science" which are the only reason why there are more than 80 million Muslims in the entire world - was turned into a weapon.

Nazi Germany is what happens when a developed, intelligent nation goes fucking crazy. It's easy to see all of the processes which successful European industries go through - even a stubborn boss who fails to understand shit, repeatedly, and makes unfeasible demands. The Germans were experimenting using what they had, on-hand. They didn't just magically develop a perfect machine - they employed whatever they could get their hands on. This must be hard to understand for you, who I am assume is an Arab or a Turk.

The Arab world has failed at every single opportunity to beat the Jews in combat because the Jews are better than Arabs. They managed to barely survive Hitler, and for those who did, a horde of screaming barbarians was fucking easy. Look at the other guy - denying that Israel won a war.

The problem isn't that you don't "get it" - it's that the concepts go so far beyond your mentality and culture that you simply will not accept it.
 
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