Off-Topic MtFs in Women's Sports / Title IX Demolition

[a hapless toad]

The muh tranny ruined my sport argument is really stupid.

Tranny win very low level competitions. Some people here are acting as if they are world champion.

If anything women with insane test level have ruined female competition more than trannies ever did.

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@me when 3 trannies win all medals like those test fueled freaks did.

I don't know about the other two, but Caster Semenya is a male. Please do try to keep up.

Left to right: Francine Niyonsaba, Caster Semenya, Margaret Wambui

They're all males with 46 XY DSDs.

Are they trannies? Probably not. Are they men? Debatable...

Do they have a biological advantage over the vast majority of women athletes who do NOT have XY chromosomes or DSDs? Absolutely.

Should they be competing against said women? Absolutely not.

Like I'm sorry your genetics are fucked and because you grew up in a shithole with limited medical expertise you were supposedly raised as girls and that you're nowhere near good enough to compete against men, but that doesn't mean your genetic anomaly means you get to steal achievements from real women.

Edit: PHRASING.

 

[Otis Mallebrok]

Are they trannies? Probably not. Are they men? Debatable...

They are men. They have a condition that only exists in males, they have testes, male fysiology, go through male puberty, and a Y-chromosome in every somatic cell.

 

[a hapless toad]

They are men. They have a condition that only exists in males, they have testes, male fysiology, go through male puberty, and a Y-chromosome in every somatic cell.

I agree, but I was giving the benefit of the doubt that they were raised as girls.

Perhaps I should have said that they're all males, not men.

Whatever the semantics, the bottom line is they have XY chromosomes and a biological advantage over women, therefore they shouldn't be competing against them.

 

[Anasa Tristis]

The federal government can't control what the NCAA does. They can only mess around with Title IX since that's a federal law.

TBH, I don't know much about the NCAA. I get that they're a non profit org that regulates and organizes college sports. But if you go to their site and take a look around, the NCAA is all for trans inclusion. Even though the NCAA is self funded, (from what I can tell) all US schools that accept Uncle Sugar bux do have to comply with Title IX.

The NCAA makes it extremely onerous for men to compete in women's sports to stop people from easily switching, and I doubt that will change since it would turn something like women's basketball into a farce if they allowed someone like Zach Edey to slap on a wig and compete with women two feet shorter than him.

Lia Thomas proves that they're not onerous enough.

But I will say after a brief look that it looks like they do cherry pick which sports permit troons. Golf. Certain track events. And team sports like volleyball, rugby and field hockey. (Oi.) I'm sure that women's basketball is deliberately troon excluded. The day that troons take over NCAA women's basketball and dominate March Madness coverage there will be rioting in the streets. Fans are very invested there.

 

[std::string]

The day that troons take over NCAA women's basketball and dominate March Madness coverage there will be rioting in the streets. Fans are very invested there.

If UConn got knocked out of March Madness by a team full of troons they'd have to call in the national guard.

Honestly it would probably be better to just rip the band-aid off and let everyone see how ridiculous it is to let men into women's sports. The stuff with Lia Thomas is a bit too remote since few people care about swimming.

 

[caonima]

Checkmate bigots, turns out men are actually worse than women at sports once they put on a dress.


Study for people who want to actually read it, I certainly haven't
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2024/04/10/bjsports-2023-108029

 

[SimplyScrumptious]

Checkmate bigots, turns out men are actually worse than women at sports once they put on a dress.
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Study for people who want to actually read it, I certainly haven't
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2024/04/10/bjsports-2023-108029

I actually did skim through it while sipping my morning caffeinated beverage.
Mostly it just shows that TW are not women.

Spoiler: Table of results

 

[DavidS877]

I actually did skim through it while sipping my morning caffeinated beverage.
Mostly it just shows that TW are not women.

Spoiler: Table of results

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Seems to indicate most of the trannies were fat and out of shape.

 

[Chandelier]

I actually did skim through it while sipping my morning caffeinated beverage.
Mostly it just shows that TW are not women.

Spoiler: Table of results

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There was a similar study published in 2023 that tried to argue away the differences by using the arguments used in this paper: "Oh well transwomen are at a disadvantage because muh estrogen!" The paper also casually admits TW are taller than actual women:

Significant differences were found in height (F(3–66)=21.3, p<0.001), with CM being taller than transgender men (t(66)=3.8, p=0.002, table 1). Transgender women were also taller than transgender men (t(66)=3.3, p=0.01) and cisgender women (t(66)=6.5, p<0.001, table 1).

Significant differences were found in clothed mass (F(3–66)=10.6, p<0.001), with transgender women found to be heavier than cisgender women (t(66)=5.6, p<0.001, table 1).

BMI was also significantly different between the groups in this Study (F (3–66)=3.6, p=0.02). Transgender women athletes demonstrated higher BMI than cisgender women (t(66)=2.9, p=0.03, table 1), with no further differences observed.

That is because of their MALE GENES, THAT ARE NOT AFFECTED BY ESTROGEN.

Transmen still do not have the T levels of actual men:

Transgender women’s total testosterone concentration (0.7±0.5 nmol/L) falls within the recommendations for GAHT of ≤1.8 nmol/L,5 and oestradiol concentrations (742.4±801.9 pmol/L) exceed the target of 400–600 pmol/L5 for GAHT. Transgender men’s testosterone concentration (24.8±12.3 nmol/L) exceeds the NHS target of 15–20 nmol/L6 for GAHT, although not the Endocrine Society target of 11–34.7 nmol/L.7

TW still have greater lung function than natal women:

Lung function​

Lung function data for all groups can be found in table 2. FEV1 had an effect of gender (F(3–66)=14.7, p<0.001), with CM having greater FEV1 than transgender men (t(66) = 4.5, p<0.001, figure 2A). Transgender women also had greater FEV1 than cisgender women (t(66)=4.2, p<0.001, figure 2A) and transgender men (t(66)=2.9, p=0.03, figure 2A). There was a similar effect of gender on FVC (F(3–66)=21.6, p<0.001, figure 2B), with CM having greater FVC than transgender men (t(66)=5.2, p<0.001, figure 2B). Transgender women also had greater FVC than cisgender women (t(66)=5.6, p<0.001, figure 2B) and transgender men (t(66)=4.0, p=0.001, figure 2B). A significant effect of gender was also seen on the FEV1:FVC ratio (F(3–66)=3.3, p=0.03 figure 2C), with transgender women showing a reduced FEV1:FVC ratio compared with cisgender women (t(66)=−2.8, p=0.04, figure 2C) with no differences observed in transgender or CM. Peak expiratory flow (F(3–66)=5.5, p=0.002) had a minor gender-based effect, with cisgender women having lower peak expiratory flow than transgender women (t(66)−3.0, p=0.02, figure 2D).

Hand grip strength is greater in males:

Handgrip strength data can be found in table 2. Absolute right handgrip strength was significantly different between the groups (F(3–66)=10.5, p<0.001), with CM having greater absolute right handgrip strength than transgender men (t(66)=2.9, p=0.03, figure 3B). Transgender women also had greater absolute right handgrip strength than cisgender women (t(66)=3.2, p=0.01, figure 3B). Absolute left handgrip was significantly different between the groups (F(3–66)=8.6, p<0.001). However, no differences were found between transgender and cisgender athletes (figure 3A). There was no effect on the right (F(3–66)=0.8, p=0.53, figure 3F) or left-hand grip strength (F(3–66)=1.0, p=0.39, figure 3E) relative to fat-free mass, nor was there any gender effect on the right (F(3–66)=1.6, p=0.20, figure 3D) or left-hand grip-strength (F(3–66)=2.1, p=0.11) relative to hand size.

Of course in the discussion, they try to say TW are just women anyways because they share a 'similar endocrine profile':

This underscores that transgender women in this cohort of athletes exhibit a distinct endocrine profile from CM and share a similar endocrine profile with cisgender women, whom many transgender women aim to integrate into a sporting category. One of the most noticeable disparities between gender groups was in height and mass (table 1), with CM and transgender women being taller and heavier than their cisgender and transgender counterparts (table 1). Body composition measures (fat mass % and fat-free mass %, table 2) between transgender women and cisgender women found no difference. However, transgender women are, on average as a cohort taller and heavier.

They outright admit TW are larger than women, but they still insist they have a similar profile. Note NO TRANS MAN EVER BEAT THE MEN. They lagged behind in every cohort.

They didn't measure cardiac output, which would invariably skew TW towards males:

However, as cardiac output, the most crucial variable influencing V̇O2max25 was not assessed in the present study, a more comprehensive mechanistic explanation for the similar maximal aerobic capacity between groups cannot be provided.

Another casual admission TW are not the same:

Body composition differences may have implications for sports that prioritise exercise economy,30 defined as the average V̇O2 relative to body mass between submaximal intensities,31 as athletes with a higher fat mass percentage will present with a lower exercise economy owing to the increased O2 cost of exercise.32 The android-to-gynoid ratio analysis (table 2) suggests that hormone therapy (figure 1A,B) influences differences in fat distribution patterns. However, fat distribution patterns of the present transgender female athlete cohort (table 2) do not reach ratios previously reported in cisgender female populations (0..33 Understanding these variations is essential for evaluating performance in sports where body composition is a determining factor, for example, weightlifting or boxing.

Lung capacity:

Therefore, the lung function differences observed in figure 2A,B may be attributed to factors such as skeletal size benefiting lung capacity and function,36 with transgender women’s FVC results (figure 2B) suggesting gender-affirming hormone care did not impact changing lung volumes owing to the GAHTs lack of effect on skeletal stature.11 Transgender women showed a significantly reduced FEV1:FVC ratio compared with cisgender women (figure 2C). The FEV1:FVC ratio has been used as a screening index for identifying obstructive lung conditions globally,37 as a lower FEV1 owing to obstruction of air escaping from the lungs will reduce the FEV1:FVC ratio. Transgender women’s results (figure 2C) suggest obstructed airflow in the lungs38 when compared with cisgender women. However, this observation of transgender women is unlikely to be pathological (<0.70),39 as seen in chronic obstructive pulmonary disease.

Hand grip strength is within that of males:

Strength results in figure 3 disagree with previous literature in a non-athlete transgender cohort using the same methodology that showed transgender women and CM had significantly different absolute and relative hand grip strength.41 Our results showed no differences in absolute strength between transgender women and CM and no difference in relative handgrip between any of the groups in this study (figure 3). These results highlight the differences between athlete and sedentary populations. However, the results relative to hand size also concur with the notion that greater handgrip strength is caused by greater hand size,42 as there were no differences in results between the four groups when normalised for hand size (figure 3C,D). Therefore, investigations with more accurate measures of strength are warranted in transgender athletes.

And yet, transmen didn't beat males in hand grip strength.

Jumping:

Transgender women presented lower absolute jump height than CM and lower relative jump height, normalised for fat-free mass, than transgender men and cisgender women (figure 4). These results in this study cohort suggest that transgender women lack lower body anaerobic power compared with the other groups. Transgender women’s higher absolute peak power than cisgender women (figure 4C), coupled with higher fat mass potentially driven by higher oestradiol concentrations (figure 1B), suggest that transgender women had more inertia to overcome during the explosive phase of the countermovement jump, which may lead to decreased performance. However, when normalised for fat-free mass (figure 4D), transgender women’s peak power was lower than that of cisgender women, showing that this cohort also lacks peak power relatively, indicating that the higher fat mass may not be the primary contributing factor. Further investigations are warranted to find the causation of this poor lower anaerobic power performance in transgender women.

This is what Ari Drennen and others are focusing on, but what is happening is that the excess estrogen is making these boys fat, and they can't jump. They still have greater jump power than them.

The lack of differences in anaerobic threshold (%V̇O2max, figure 5D) suggests that the athletes in this study had a similar fitness status, which is an essential underlying finding given that CM showed greater absolute V̇O2max than all groups (figure 5A), with no differences between transgender women and cisgender women found, and transgender women exhibited lower relative V̇O2max compared with both CM and women (figure 5B). In this cohort, the finding of no statistical difference in absolute V̇O2max between transgender women and cisgender women contrasts the idea that transgender women’s bigger lung size (table 2) is an inherent respiratory function advantage over cisgender women.11

This is also a contradiction because earlier in the study they referenced male skeletons do not change with GAHM, and the lower VO2 output may be due to the estrogen itself. They're trying to paint this as a liability when it doesn't erase the fact that males have larger lungs and volume.

Let's see if this replicates. Can't wait for Emma Hilton and her buddies to look at this.

Both the absolute and relative V̇O2max differences between groups contradict one previous study in non-athlete transgender populations that found transgender women had higher absolute V̇O2peak and no difference in relative V̇O2peak compared with cisgender women.41 This contradictory finding further highlights population differences between non-athlete and athlete cohorts while also contradicting literature hypothesising that there would be a baseline gap in aerobic capacity between transgender women and cisgender women.11 The results in this athlete cohort warrant further research to elucidate the mechanisms behind this deviation, as they may be metabolic, as transgender women also exhibited a lower relative anaerobic threshold (figure 5E). The findings in table 2 reveal notable disparities in fat mass, fat-free mass, laboratory sports performance measures and hand-grip strength measures between cisgender male and transgender female athletes. These differences underscore the inadequacy of using cisgender male athletes as proxies for transgender women athletes. Therefore, based on these limited findings, we recommend that transgender women athletes be evaluated as their own demographic group, in accordance with the principles outlined in Article 6.1b of the International Olympic Committee Framework on Fairness, Inclusion and Non-Discrimination based on Gender Identity and Sex Variations.4

But they still want them in female sports, because they'll lose to men. The graphs show the TW placing very close to males, just as other research has. We know estrogen makes TW fat - see Rhys MacKinnon.

 

[Marvin]

There was a similar study published in 2023 that tried to argue away the differences by using the arguments used in this paper: "Oh well transwomen are at a disadvantage because muh estrogen!"

Which is retarded.

Estrogen isn't magical weak juice, it's just not specifically testosterone.

Also there's a massive difference between building muscle and merely maintaining existing muscle. It's far easier to maintain muscle, even without testosterone.

Like sure, if we're talking about some random doughy computer nerd, blocking their testosterone or castrating them will probably make them doughier and somewhat weaker.

But we're not talking about your average troon. We're talking about actively training athletes.

I guarantee, if you blocked Mike Tyson's T, but still kept up his training regimen, I'm absolutely certain he would lose basically nothing after a year. Hell, make it two years, he'll still beat the living shit out of anyone.

Now, I'm sure that the subjective experience of training without the benefits of testosterone might suck somewhat. But it's doable. And with these troon athletes, they're usually motivated by stereotypical male competitiveness and wanting to beat women, so they have no problems soldiering through.

It's stupid that anyone is even entertaining this bullshit.

 

[OttoWest]

The five young girls who boycotted “Becky” Pepper-Jackson’s participation in a girl’s track and field meet have been banned from the team. The West Virginia AG is filing a lawsuit against the school district for restricting the girls’ exercising their right to free speech.

“Becky” won the girls’ shot put competition by beating the nearest female competitor by over three feet.

@Larry David's Opera Cape do you have a birth name for this kid?

 

[Random Internet Person]

 

[Larry David's Opera Cape]

The five young girls who boycotted “Becky” Pepper-Jackson’s participation in a girl’s track and field meet have been banned from the team. The West Virginia AG is filing a lawsuit against the school district for restricting the girls’ exercising their right to free speech.

“Becky” won the girls’ shot put competition by beating the nearest female competitor by over three feet.

@Larry David's Opera Cape do you have a birth name for this kid?

I don't believe that came up in my inquiries, though I did get names for both parents.

Heather Denise Jackson (age 55 lol old, she had this kid in her 40s)
Wesley Scott Pepper (age 61 lol even older)

This private information is unavailable to guests due to policies enforced by third-parties.

https://lambdalegal.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/declaration_of_heather_jackson.pdf

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Dad Wes appears to be a former chiropractor now working as a nursing home flunkie. Or perhaps the other way around- Linkedin has no dates and he appears on the current chiro roster.

Heather Jackson may have a former marriage/aka as Heather Lowery.

I could not find any West Virginia name change court orders for the child. It may be sealed, it may have been done in another jurisdiction, or it may not have been legally accomplished yet.

 

[Larry David's Opera Cape]

May be close to a breakthrough. I had a hunch to search for dad's nickname instead of full name and I have obtained the names of the brothers:

McCoy Pepper-Jackson
Rider Pepper-Jackson

as well as dad's social media. And mom's social media. By which I confirmed they are divorced and she has taken up with a new guy.

As early as 2019 the trooned out kid was being listed as "Becky" in a relatives' obit.

edit: "Becky" is on faceberg too:

https://www.facebook.com/becky.pepperjackson

 

[OttoWest]

May be close to a breakthrough. I had a hunch to search for dad's nickname instead of full name and I have obtained the names of the brothers:

McCoy Pepper-Jackson
Rider Pepper-Jackson

as well as dad's social media. And mom's social media. By which I confirmed they are divorced and she has taken up with a new guy.

As early as 2019 the trooned out kid was being listed as "Becky" in a relatives' obit.

I think I may have found it: Stratton Pepper-Jackson. If it’s true he had some kind of childhood heart ailment, it would certainly explain a munchie mom.

 

[Larry David's Opera Cape]

I think I may have found it: Stratton Pepper-Jackson. If it’s true he had some kind of childhood heart ailment, it would certainly explain a munchie mom.

That would fit with the timeline (born about 2011) and the naming patterns for the family. I believe the court docs only refer to two brothers so this has to be him.

Stratton Pepper-Jackson was also legally known as such as late as 2022 when he was listed on the middle school honor roll.

Stratton Pepper-Jackson's name will live on as long as Null keeps this site up. Too bad, munchie bitch Heather.

 

[Anasa Tristis]

“Becky” Pepper-Jackson

Stratton Pepper-Jackson

So did his peers bully him by calling him Strap On Pecker Jackoff? Then post transition that changed to Wrecky Pecker Jackoff?

There’s a pecker cheese joke in there too, somewhere. Thanks Mom & Dad!

Proving once again that there’s a connection between hyphenated names and idiocy. And status signaling luxury beliefs.

 

[Bawbag]

Maybe if you get up off that crack rock, you can come and be Pepper Jack's best ho.

 

[OttoWest]

Stratton Pepper-Jackson was also legally known as such as late as 2022 when he was listed on the middle school honor roll.

Well that certainly doesn’t fit with the family’s narrative that he’s been socially transitioning since the third grade.

 

[Larry David's Opera Cape]

Well that certainly doesn’t fit with the family’s narrative that he’s been socially transitioning since the third grade.

He's listed as Becky in an obit for a family member from 2019. That would have been about 3rd grade. So I am guessing what happened is they started using the girl name casually around then, but didn't do the legal change until after that sixth grade honor roll mention- if they have done it at all. Becky isn't even usually anyone's legal name, it'd be Rebecca. So I guess for a minor maybe you can get away with filing lawsuits referring to a kid by a nickname. All the usual formalities that are observed around everything else get thrown out for troons, why not this one I suppose.