Grace Lavery / Joseph Lavery & Daniel M. Lavery / Mallory Ortberg - "Straight with extra steps" couple trooning out to avoid "dwindling into mere heterosexuality"

[Larry David's Opera Cape]

It's kind of sad that these photos look more like a theatre production put on by residents of an assisted living facility than an actual wedding.

The couple is standing 12ish feet apart and the "embrace" photos have less chemistry than Matthew McConaughey and Jodie Foster in Contact.

 

[MirnaMinkoff]

It's kind of sad that these photos look more like a theatre production put on by residents of an assisted living facility than an actual wedding.

Was there a theme? Or is it purely coincidence that the attendees look as though they crawled out of a clothing donation bin?

Only the super duper queer and unique people attended the straight with extra steps wedding. It’s amusing that if anyone had shown up dressed in normie, formal wedding attire they would have been the stand out. Instead it’s all garish clothing, danger hair and skin exposed to show lots of tattoos. It looks like a group of people that got turned away from Burning Man and a kicked out of a strip club in Sacramento waiting in the old train station.

I do wonder how many of these close and dear friends invited to the wedding are still in any regular contact with Mal…or Joe I guess but I don’t believe he has friends just work colleagues that aren’t openly hostile.

 

[cherrysour]

Joe is a middle-class person's idea of a rich person and a midwit's idea of a smart person. He blew through his Substack advance on designer tat and his dipshit concepts are camouflaged with 50-cent words.

Also, even if senpai didn't notice that he Gish-galloped the subject, I did. Prisons exist, Joseph. Does the cannibal rapist TIM belong in Men's Prison A or Women's Prison B?

 

[CyrusKissFanClub]

I know narcs prey on the weak-willed, but how broken do you have to be to let yourself wind up like this, going from pleasantly cutesy feminist to the ruined plaything of a moronic, demented pervert?

Mallory was vulnerable to this manipulation, and convincing her to self-destruct would have been gradual. Cutting her off from friends and family would have been part of this process. Joe needed to be the sole source of influence. Any cause for self-reflection and questioning had to be erased or minimized.

This is an adaptation and expansion of Kurt Lewin’s organizational change management model from Hassan (2013), applied to cults. (I don't agree with it in its entirety--e.g. the Hypnosis substage is dubious--but its broad outline is consistent with other models of coercive control.)


(Hassan, Steven (2013): Freedom of mind. Helping loved ones leave controlling people, cults, and beliefs. 2nd edition. Newton, MA: Freedom of Mind Press. pp. 52-53)

I'm not suggesting that the "throuple" is a cult; rather, I'm pointing out that aspects of it are redolent of a cult.

There is also a substantial overlap between cult coercive control and domestic coercive control.


(Stark, Evan (2007): Coercive control. The entrapment of women in personal life. Oxford, New York: Oxford University Press (Interpersonal violence)).

Notice above that bites are specifically named.



It is also significant that Joe likes to show off his Freudian psychoanalytic bullshit at every opportunity. Freudian psychoanalytic theory has been thoroughly refuted, but to someone like Mallory, Joe's knowledge of this pseudoscience makes him an expert in matters of mental health and psychology. Joe can give Mallory a specious account of how his abusive behavior is entirely normal. This ties in with what Stark describes in the (highlighted above) section on Isolation.

What would he want the male coworkers to do? Quit?

Joe doesn't appear to have a problem with men if they give him his narcissistic supply. He doesn't have the visceral hatred of men that he has of women. Joe appears to take pleasure in destroying and humiliating only women. Malory and Lily have a deferential relationship with Joe; they look up to him because of his academic station and purported intellect. This is the primary source of his (malevolent) influence.

The broader problem appears to be that Joe hasn't received all the privileges that he expected to gain from becoming a tranny, namely:

1. improved social standing at work; and
2. improved social standing amongst trannies.

Joe's colleagues wouldn't be impressed with him; they are at least as accomplished. Joe doesn't receive the fawning adoration he receives at home at work. Joe's publishers, agent, and (some?) book reviewers also shower him with praise. I think this asymmetry or disparity is the nub of Joe's grievance. There is no transphobia in the Department; he is resentful because his mediocre mind isn't being lauded like it is at home and by his agent and publisher(s).

I think Joe knew that trooning out would give him certain privileges--academic and social--and this contributed to his motivation to become a troon. For a mediocre academic like Joe, becoming a tranny is all good. He doesn't only become a member of a protected category; he becomes a member of a more restrictive subset of academics. Joe was just another associate professor in the Department, but now he is the only trans associate professor in the Department. He hasn't distinguished himself through excellent scholarship and teaching but through his self-identification as a woman.

From reading his social media, I formed the impression that Joe desired to set himself up as the defender of trannies and vanquisher of TERFs--a type of hero figure. I guess that he thought he would gain social capital and (eventually) other trannies would want to fuck him. But neither (1) nor (2) have transpired to the extent that Joe would have hoped. I think he also wanted to set women straight about feminism because they are all dumb bitches. The details of his disillusionment with the academy are embarrassing, so he instead talks about imaginary transphobia and a vague malaise.

 

[MirnaMinkoff]

It is also significant that Joe likes to show off his Freudian psychoanalytic bullshit at every opportunity. Freudian psychoanalytic theory has been thoroughly refuted, but to someone like Mallory, Joe's knowledge of this pseudoscience makes him an expert in matters of mental health and psychology. Joe can give Mallory a specious account of how his abusive behavior is entirely normal.

It’s also another method Joe uses to demonstrate superiority over Mallory and her father. Her father was a Christian pastor and has a PhD in clinical psychology. Clinical psychology rejects Freud’s theories wholesale.

I remember reading an article about how Freud’s theories are no longer taught at universities in the schools of medicine and psychology departments, but his theories still flourished in various humanities dept.

A new report by the American Psychoanalytic Association has found that while psychoanalysis — or what purports to be psychoanalysis — is alive and well in literature, film, history and just about every other subject in the humanities, psychology departments and textbooks treat it as “desiccated and dead,” a historical artifact instead of “an ongoing movement and a living, evolving process.”

A large part of alienating Mal from her family involved Joe “proving” her father was wrong and amoral, whereas Joe is righteous, and far superior. Psychoanalysis is for artists and writers, clinical psychology is for the sheeple. Any qualms Mal might have about Freud’s misogyny and bizarre penis fixation could be brushed aside by explaining he’s following Jung and Lacan, then he can blather on about Lacan’s theories to silly Mal in terms she might understand. Disagreement with Joe just means Mal is too stupid to truly understand.

Joe wanted to replace all the previous “mantles” held by her father and/or subject them to mockery or prove them wrong. This is why Joe babbled on about becoming a psychoanalyst a few years ago. The psychoanalytical bullshit has been handy to drub over Mallory’s head to correct her wrong think and demonstrate Joe’s highly enlightened way.

I assumed when he posted about wanting to become a psychoanalyst it was because he intended to be Mal and Lilly’s “analyst.” There’s no way Joe has any interest in listening to other people talk about themselves for hours unless he has a vested personal interest in them.

I’m not aware of him mentioning it again, but I’m sure lack of training hasn’t stopped him from becoming the chief analyst of the trouple. Added bonus of getting on the couch himself, and letting the girls play analyst, for some passive aggressive drama.

 

[Bookwork]

Raking old coals on Autostraddle where Joe wrote of their transing, "as you all probably know by now, Danny’s was more epiphanic and mine more gradual."
link | archive.

Joe goes on (and on) about how Mal tried and failed to flirt with him despite his being "a bit of a pig," writing how-to Toast "advice" as she thought up new ways to get her adored one's attention.

The point of his article is "I'm fascinating," but it left me wondering whether trooning out was another one of Mal's ploys for the great fake's attention.

Looking back the flirtation was sort of obvious? Danny characterized the general tone as “I wanted you to know I didn’t speak French, but that I was still smart.”

I'm a preacher's daughter but I can be a kinky preacher's daughter, s'il vous plaît. Epiphany!

 

[MirnaMinkoff]

Raking old coals on Autostraddle where Joe wrote of their transing, "as you all probably know by now, Danny’s was more epiphanic and mine more gradual."
link | archive.
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Joe goes on (and on) about how Mal tried and failed to flirt with him despite his being "a bit of a pig," writing how-to Toast "advice" as she thought up new ways to get her adored one's attention.

The point of his article is "I'm fascinating," but it left me wondering whether trooning out was another one of Mal's ploys for the great fake's attention.

I'm a preacher's daughter but I can be a kinky preacher's daughter, s'il vous plaît. Epiphany!

It was certainly a way to make herself more exotic and interesting to Joe. Joe would have had disdain and jealously towards Mallory Ortberg, Christian, feminist, successful published writer.

Mallory Ortberg, Christian, feminist, writer, who was considering “she was he” and taking a walk on the wild side (ha ha) was going to be very enticing to Joe.

Joe sees himself as a transgressive authority and would have taken great interest in a Mallory who wanted to change her gender, and everything else, about her previous identity. The interest was all the greater when Joe realized she did have a minor level of celebrity plus a family influential in Christian circles. Joe crowed about being “her Yoko” with good reason.

It’s just shocking Mallory would be so eager to please such a nasty, mediocre associate professor. Joe finally cottoned on to the fact her feminist persona was a facade and she was willing to go to extreme lengths to impress and please him.

It’s what makes Joe fucking and impregnating Lilly all the more sad/ hilarious. You can almost hear Mal going, “but, but, but I thought you…” It’s a real shame we will never get to hear the tornado of bullshit Joe enveloped Mallory in when he decided to move in Lilly. I doubt Mallory would have actually voiced any actual disagreement to his announcement but he would have been explaining why it was a wonderful idea all the same.

 

[behindyourightnow]

It’s also another method Joe uses to demonstrate superiority over Mallory and her father. Her father was a Christian pastor and has a PhD in clinical psychology. Clinical psychology rejects Freud’s theories wholesale.

I remember reading an article about how Freud’s theories are no longer taught at universities in the schools of medicine and psychology departments, but his theories still flourished in various humanities dept.

Gotta disagree here. Freudianism was still taught when I did a psychology course at college (I'm younger than Joe) and I'd be surprised if that has stopped since then. Most college psych courses go over the history of psychology (including Freudianism, behaviorism, etc). In the course I took, there was also acknowledgment that a lot of Freud's broader ideas have been proven correct, like actions often having unconscious motivations. And a lot of Freudian theories (like defense mechanisms) are pretty widely accepted even now. It's just the weird sex stuff that has been thrown out.

I assumed when he posted about wanting to become a psychoanalyst it was because he intended to be Mal and Lilly’s “analyst.” There’s no way Joe has any interest in listening to other people talk about themselves for hours unless he has a vested personal interest in them.

I’m not aware of him mentioning it again, but I’m sure lack of training hasn’t stopped him from becoming the chief analyst of the trouple. Added bonus of getting on the couch himself, and letting the girls play analyst, for some passive aggressive drama.

Yes, being a psychoanalyst for Joe would mean a) having people tell him their darkest secrets so that he can be better at manipulating them and b) being able to lecture his female clients while they nod wide-eyed and accept his wisdom.

I'm sure he looked into it a bit further, realized that there were actually strict ethical guidelines that wouldn't allow him to act the way he imagined, and lost interest.

 

[monstrous bubo]

Being called insane by Elon Musk can go straight to a girl’s head


link

What a mischievous old sex potato he is.

 

[MirnaMinkoff]

Gotta disagree here. Freudianism was still taught when I did a psychology course at college (I'm younger than Joe) and I'd be surprised if that has stopped since then. Most college psych courses go over the history of psychology (including Freudianism, behaviorism, etc). In the course I took, there was also acknowledgment that a lot of Freud's broader ideas have been proven correct, like actions often having unconscious motivations. And a lot of Freudian theories (like defense mechanisms) are pretty widely accepted even now. It's just the weird sex stuff that has been thrown out.

A basic introduction psychology course I would expect Freud to be covered since he’s still credited as being the father of the subject and it’s history as a field needs addressed, but I’m not taking this from my own personal experience. Besides intro courses for to cover credits I needed, I never studied psychology. It’s articles like this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/25/weekinreview/25cohen.html

PSYCHOANALYSIS and its ideas about the unconscious mind have spread to every nook and cranny of the culture from Salinger to “South Park,” from Fellini to foreign policy. Yet if you want to learn about psychoanalysis at the nation’s top universities, one of the last places to look may be the psychology department.

A new report by the American Psychoanalytic Association has found that while psychoanalysis — or what purports to be psychoanalysis — is alive and well in literature, film, history and just about every other subject in the humanities, psychology departments and textbooks treat it as “desiccated and dead,” a historical artifact instead of “an ongoing movement and a living, evolving process.”

The study, which is to appear in the June 2008 issue of The Journal of the American Psychoanalytic Assocation, is the latest evidence of the field’s existential crisis. For decades now, critics engaged in the Freud Wars have pummeled the good doctor’s theories for being sexist, fraudulent, unscientific, or just plain wrong. In their eyes, psychoanalysis belongs with discarded practices like leeching.

But to beleaguered psychoanalysts who have lost ground to other forms of therapy that promise quicker results through cheaper and easier methods, the report underscores pressing questions about the relevance of their field and whether it will survive as a practice….

Psychoanalysis was super hot and in vogue up until the 1970’s until it started falling rapidly out of favor because it didn’t help with people dealing with minor and severe mental illness. I know two clinical psychologists who regard Freud as a historical artifact and entirely useless when it comes to their practice, and one is older had to study his theories since they started training in the late 70’s.

Then again psychoanalysis has always mostly been for the worried well, neurotics and people searching for meaning/identity - not treating mental health issues. (except maybe academics having an existential crisis and needs to talk a lot about it).

Psychoanalysts first tried to treat, then totally ignore the severely mentally ill patients, which psychologists and psychiatrists didn’t have the luxury of doing. It’s one of the main reasons he’s been discarded in medicine and clinical psychology but still embraced or discussed in the various arts and humanities.

 

[Haram-Habibi]

So what exactly could get Ol' Joe shitcanned from Berzerkly, anyways?

I mean, yes, he has tenure, but so did fellow troon Rhys McKinnon, and once upon a time, Rhys was a bigger media "star" than Joe has ever been.

 

[Constellationzero]

For a mediocre academic like Joe

Try subpar, inept, incompetent, untalented, incapable, and, most of all, completely unqualified.

Trooning out is Sideshow's blessing and a GODSEND. He has protection, and every little perverted thought he squirts out of that facial anus of his is applauded as "genius."

Lily has the same thing going except "lesbian" and "KA--WEER!"

 

[CyrusKissFanClub]

Gotta disagree here. Freudianism was still taught when I did a psychology course at college (I'm younger than Joe) and I'd be surprised if that has stopped since then. Most college psych courses go over the history of psychology (including Freudianism, behaviorism, etc). In the course I took, there was also acknowledgment that a lot of Freud's broader ideas have been proven correct, like actions often having unconscious motivations. And a lot of Freudian theories (like defense mechanisms) are pretty widely accepted even now. It's just the weird sex stuff that has been thrown out.

Freud is mentioned in first-year psychology when developmental psychology is covered--but only as a historical oddity. Freud's five psychosexual stages of development--the oral, the anal, the phallic, the latent, and the genital--are put up on a Powerpoint slide to be mocked.

Most of Freud's major ideas either have no evidence base or have been disproven. The Oedipus complex--for example--lacks evidence for its existence and there exists evidence that it does not exist.

Similarly, most of Freud's psychic defenses. Reaction formation--something which one of Joe's books relies upon for its central thesis--has a very weak evidence base. The only defenses that enjoy some empirical support are projection and transference.

Psychotherapists who continue to operate in the psychodynamic tradition regard Freud's psychoanalysis as entirely indefensible. These are schools like object relations theory and post-Freudianism that have some of Freud's ideas as a foundation but have gone in their distinct direction.

Even Freud's central idea that actions often have unconscious motivations is not without difficulties. It is doubtful that an unconscious mind--as understood by Freud--exists. Freud's unconscious has been criticized on both philosophical and scientific grounds.

Many of the advances in social, developmental, evolutionary, and cognitive psychology disconfirm Freud's ideas. Another line of disconfirmation comes from the efficacy of various psychotherapies that have no relation to psychoanalysis.

To bring this back to Joe: Joe referencing Freudian psychoanalysis without an inkling of what has occurred in modern psychology and psychiatry over the last eighty years since Freud died confirms him to be the clown that he is.

The "Freud Wars" are a big topic--way too big for this thread--and many books and papers have been written on the topic. Joe would be wise to read some of the most salient texts such as:

Grünbaum, Adolf. (1984). The foundations of psychoanalysis : a philosophical critique. University of California Press. https://doi.org/10.1525/9780520907324

Crews, F. C. (2017). Freud: the making of an illusion. First edition. New York, Metropolitan Books, Henry Holt and Company.

 

[David Glowie]

Being called insane by Elon Musk can go straight to a girl’s head

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What a mischievous old sex potato he is.

Neo-Fourieriste? More like Fourier's gangrene.

 

[Larry David's Opera Cape]

Psychodynamic therapy fell out of fashion not because it was "scientifically discredited" (this would imply the stuff currently in fashion is somehow scientifically credited, lol) but when therapy moved from being a luxury item for the elite/reserved for the most extreme pathologies in the proles to needing to be mass-produced and widely marketed to the middle and working classes.

Behaviorist models (CBT, DBT) have the advantage of being systematized, manualized, and can be rolled out in a regimented way with a beginning, middle, and an end. You have your 12 sessions or whatever you can milk the insurance plan for, you have your less-educated technician (a social worker with a clinical internship or a M. Ed with the same, instead of a physician or doctor of philosophy) and within those limitations you will accomplish a (very modest goal) like "symptom reduction" or "improved functioning on X, Y, or Z measure." Get the Hamilton Depression score under the red flag threshold. Get the kid to stop throwing so many spitballs during class. And then back out into the world making widgets.

Neither Freud nor Jung nor any of those others in their old school of thought deluded themselves into thinking that they had created a "scientific" treatment method along the lines of an appendectomy or a course of antibiotics, something you could expect to be done the same way in each patient and achieve the same results in about the same amount of time. Whatever other flaws there may have been in their theories or their methods, they at least didn't pretend that.

The early psychoanalysts were more like philosophers than fake-scientists. They proposed theories about how humans worked based on what they observed, and some of it will naturally hold up while other aspects were more culturally or time bound, or colored by their own biases. But I don't know how you can look at a specimen like Mallory and just scoff that Freud was totally wrong in every regard, just an old bigot with no clue. Hah, penis envy? Electra complex? Pish posh- what? Just look at this gal. Come on.

 

[MirnaMinkoff]

But I don't know how you can look at a specimen like Mallory and just scoff that Freud was totally wrong in every regard, just an old bigot with no clue. Hah, penis envy? Electra complex? Pish posh- what? Just look at this gal. Come on.

Because Freud injected his weird adult male sexual fixations into all of it. Do little girls want their fathers affection and get jealous of him paying attention to mom instead of them? Sure. Does it mean they want to fuck their dad, absolutely not.

Over the years I’ve seen lots of children, of both genders, resenting their mom paying attention to fathers, or any other person. They covet their mother’s love and affection, but it doesn’t mean they want to have sex with her.

Freud seemed incapable of decoupling love from sex. All love or attachments had to have hidden sexual components.

Evolutionary biology has shown nature has instilled many anti-incest features in humans. Even unrelated children raised together have the Westermerck effect, a sort of reverse sexual imprinting, that makes them feel towards these kids as they would siblings.

Did Mallory highly value her father’s approval, opinion and love? I’d say absolutely, yes. Did she want to have sex with him. I hope not because then she’s way more fucked up than even I imagined.

 

[Larry David's Opera Cape]

Do little girls want their fathers affection and get jealous of him paying attention to mom instead of them? Sure. Does it mean they want to fuck their dad, absolutely not.

Normal little girls. But psychiatrists only arrive on the scene in the event of pathology.

Is this a normal girl?



There is specifically sexualized jealousy and malice involved in how she brought her dad and brother down, too. There are plenty of tall tales that could have been told, true incidents that could have been distorted and exaggerated, that would have caused a scandal or justified her disavowing them. But she went right below the belt.

Not to mention all the weird talk about "boyhood" she's always engaging in.

I'm not some Freud fanclub president. He certainly went off the rails in some ways, and his views were certainly distorted by the sample he was working with, besides any personal or cultural biases.

But we cannot deny that the kind of woman who kind of wants to kill her mother (for instance, as reflected in her female features) and fuck her father (fuck him over, have sex with a guy who holds the same place in her life, walk in his skin like we recognize AGPs do to women they desire) is a real type that exists.

It throws a real wrench in the "women only go wrong because of Patriarchy" theory, but look around. They're there.

 

[Sienna Fuegonasus]

Being called insane by Elon Musk can go straight to a girl’s head

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What a mischievous old sex potato he is.

I know he's being facetious but Bourdieuvian? What a smoothbrained freak. If he was truly Bourdieusian he would understand and acknowledge that everything he's doing, his entire personality, is nothing more than an empty fabrication designed to accumulate and leverage capital for his own personal gain.

If he's this insufferable online I cannot imagine what he's like in the flesh.

 

[AMHOLIO]

It’s just shocking Mallory would be so eager to please such a nasty, mediocre associate professor. Joe finally cottoned on to the fact her feminist persona was a facade and she was willing to go to extreme lengths to impress and please him.

To preface, I'm not familiar with Mallory's Toast time. I'm wondering if it's because Joe acted like what she thought an unsung genius or a scholar should act like. Most scholars and professors act pretty human. They'll have some upperclass taste, may use more complex words, and be able to describe fancy concepts better than the average person, but at the end of the day they can still be warm and bumbling, or monotonus and unexciting, or a guy you could drink a beer with. Contrast Joe: mildly aloof, tries to act like he doesn't need to care, mildly fey, constantly namedropping philosophers and authors whenever he can to demonstrate his great knowledge, speaks in fancy pants words as much as possible, makes a grandstanding about how he is the most extreme in the room and WILL demonstrate it (mistaken for confidence and seen as attractively breaching norms), attempts to be wry and witty and cheeky to demonstrate his knowledge over others (mistaken again for confidence and seen as a misunderstood genius with her values), hidden sadness from his past... and he's even hard to please (because narcs crave novelty), which is an appealing challenge. And Br*t*sh! (May Null forgive me for uttering the phrase INullah)

Honestly, that's the kind of man appearing in several romance novels. The guy who gets won over by the quirky girl and has his day made brighter as the two of them go through life mocking other people for being normies/unintellectual and finding a passionate common ground by their big brains and big passion. He acts out mean because he's been tragically hurt and betrayed, but he's so tender on the inside and lets his guard down for the girl who's just like him on the inside. I think Mallory assumed Joe was like this. Mallory assumed wrong.

Whatever the case was, I think she had a made up character of Joe in her head and a romance arc and marriage arc planned out for them based on her ideal romance. I think she thought being pushed to the boundaries was kinky and not demoralizing even though her expression and subconcious anxiety screamed otherwise. There's no accounting for taste in looks too of course.

Has Mal written any articles or social media posts on why she likes Joe? Pre-bloated corpse days, I mean.

Being called insane by Elon Musk can go straight to a girl’s head

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What a mischievous old sex potato he is.

That's a long string of names to drop to yell that he's better and more educated than those stupid closed minded STEM Tech bros.

Psychoanalysts first tried to treat, then totally ignore the severely mentally ill patients, which psychologists and psychiatrists didn’t have the luxury of doing. It’s one of the main reasons he’s been discarded in medicine and clinical psychology but still embraced or discussed in the various arts and humanities.

Then again psychoanalysis has always mostly been for the worried well, neurotics and people searching for meaning/identity - not treating mental health issues.

Ah, that explains it. That explains a lot.

If he's this insufferable online I cannot imagine what he's like in the flesh.

I can't and don't want to imagine what he smells like in the flesh. He just looks too corpse found in water bloated.

 

[Bookwork]

Joe's packing a good deal of hostility. I wonder if Mallory found that attractive. She certainly launched some very hostile actions against her family once she felt empowered to do so.