Warhammer 40k

[p1138]

I thought it was kinda funny how in the Cypher book, it gets all the way to the end and Cypher is right there about to meet the emperor and gets told "not right now" and Cypher just fucks off

Hell, if you want to go into plot threads that just go fucking nowhere... how about that whole mess of dark eldar meeting with admech to fix up the golden throne because it's breaking down, the inquisitor who gets I guess infected with some dark eldar shit uncovers a plot to copy the emperor's DNA for their own throne, the custodes blast the parts so the dark eldar can't get the DNA, and then everyone just fucks off and disappears including the fabricator general who is the size of a fucking building, because the plot is just over now, even though the golden throne is still on the verge of collapse.

Expecting shit to go anywhere in 40k has always been a futile effort.

 

[iceteayo]

I thought it was kinda funny how in the Cypher book, it gets all the way to the end and Cypher is right there about to meet the emperor and gets told "not right now" and Cypher just fucks off

I dont understand why so much people complain about progression either it barely moves now people who still complain about progression are just mad their head canons failed.

 

[NerdShamer]

more advanced tech

Kind of doubt that bit.

 

[NerdShamer]

I dont understand why so much people complain about progression either it barely moves now people who still complain about progression are just mad their head canons failed.

Cuz it makes pirating the novels kind of boring. Or at the very least, the Imperium-focused ones.

 

[RA-5C Vigilante]

I thought it was kinda funny how in the Cypher book, it gets all the way to the end and Cypher is right there about to meet the emperor and gets told "not right now" and Cypher just fucks off

I like to imagine that Cypher got to the Eternity Gate and was told to take a number from a golden, Gothic-themed deli ticket dispenser.

In all seriousness, I think the original ethos of not advancing the story because the universe is massive was a better way to handle the setting. And it's not like there's ten thousand years in between the Heresy and 40,999. Given the fact that one of the core parts of the Imperium is stagnation, you could set it at any time and it would still work as long as things like famous battles or wars are mentioned correctly or just not at all. Hell, you could set a story anytime in the 40k universe and as long as you never mention dates or big events, no one would notice.

But no, we had to move the story, break the universe literally in half and bring back more and more big characters like primarchs in a pathetic way to continue milking the Horus Heresy teat confusing mess of a story. And don't get me started on how fucked my pointy-eared favorite faction got their kneecaps smashed in by the new lore and the disaster that was the Ynarri. Not naming names, but fuck you Gav.

 

[Imperial Citizen]

And that is another problem. You'd expect nefarious gods of eldritch horror to have more brains than a cockroach. How these guys are supposed to be threatening, I cannot fathom. It seems that all you need to do is just give them a wide berth and slap around the ones that try to jump the border.

It is not that they are dumb. Khorne can convince armies to his side and create daemonic legions of swordmasters but all of his tactics and plans are in pursuit of the simple goal of combat.

Think of Chaos as a tornado. A tornado excels at ripping buildings apart, transforming the idea of wind into a speed of death. The tornado will cause as much destruction as possible but it will eventually fizzle out. The tornado that is Chaos can think and it is able to convince humans to create the conditions that will sustain the tornado. Those humans are promised that they will become part of the storm, but only those that create the best conditions. The promise of such power helps the tornado grow.

Now the tornado approaches the capital of the country it was born in. It can only categorized as an impossible F10. Or is it 20? Or ∞?

What do you do in the face of such inevitable destruction? Pray to your faith that it will pass? Try to stop it? Flee the city? What if the tornado spoke to you? Said that you will survive if you burn down the safehouses of the city, sabotage emergency service efforts, kill government officials, and raise a monument in the name of the tornado. You know that you will die when the tornado lands. What choice do you have?

I ask you, do you join the storm?

 

[iceteayo]

I like to imagine that Cypher got to the Eternity Gate and was told to take a number from a golden, Gothic-themed deli ticket dispenser.

In all seriousness, I think the original ethos of not advancing the story because the universe is massive was a better way to handle the setting. And it's not like there's ten thousand years in between the Heresy and 40,999. Given the fact that one of the core parts of the Imperium is stagnation, you could set it at any time and it would still work as long as things like famous battles or wars are mentioned correctly or just not at all. Hell, you could set a story anytime in the 40k universe and as long as you never mention dates or big events, no one would notice.

But no, we had to move the story, break the universe literally in half and bring back more and more big characters like primarchs in a pathetic way to continue milking the Horus Heresy teat confusing mess of a story. And don't get me started on how fucked my pointy-eared favorite faction got their kneecaps smashed in by the new lore and the disaster that was the Ynarri. Not naming names, but fuck you Gav.

It was also a mandate by the then CEO, he had everything frozen in time as a rule becasue he wanted to micromanage it all. Also your request to cover the other 10,000 years will provide the same results of hatred. A lot of guys cry over horus heresy now for revealing to much, The Beast Arises sucks, and then you just have scattered events and paragraphs.

 

[RA-5C Vigilante]

It was also a mandate by the then CEO, he had everything frozen in time as a rule becasue he wanted to micromanage it all. Also your request to cover the other 10,000 years will provide the same results of hatred. A lot of guys cry over horus heresy now for revealing to much, The Beast Arises sucks, and then you just have scattered events and paragraphs.

Yeah, it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't thing. I personally thought the first three HH books were great, but after that it started getting iffy, and by the time Erda and that nonsense arrived, I was already in the "This was a bad idea" camp.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

So yeah, Chaos can't ever do anything major because Chaos can't simply and will never "win", as their wins already happened with the scattering of the primarchs and the horus heresy itself.

That was eons ago. Decades ago for us, 10K years ago for them. If that's all they've accomplished, then they might as well have been written out of the story after the HH.

GW is never going to change this. And while Chaos is busy not winning anything, at the same time GW also still has other factions they need to have people writing for because Chaos isn't the only antagonist in the setting. The Indomitus novel, as awful as it was, the imperium lost to necrons. I don't know what you're expecting Chaos to ever be doing in the setting other than amounting to a foil and punching bag for the imperium, but that's literally how it's always been.

So like I said, they will be forever losers, and that just saps any fun, suspense, or thrill at fighting them. The way they write Chaos, it isn't good for the story, and it doesn't actually help anything. It's just more shotgun fodder for the Imperium to beat.

You might as well not have them in the first place, if this is all they can do.

Not to mention that yes, even other antagonists do not win either. Chaos has it bad, the xenos have it worse; they're at best, side-show freaks that also serve as shotgun fodder for whatever Space Marine character serves as the protagonist. Tyranids are supposed to outnumber the galaxy itself, yet they arrive so slowly that by the time the tail end of the swarm gets there, the people of the galaxy will already have sold Tyranid bones as trophies for eons. Orks are just as chaotic as Chaos. The Eldar and Dark Eldar are too few to matter. Necrons might be a threat if they all woke up galaxy-wide, but that isn't happening anytime soon. As for the Tau, I refer you to what I said about the Eldar. Too few to even matter.

Like I said, IT LOOKS LIKE ABADDON IS BLASTING OFF AGAIN.

I ask you, do you join the storm?

Not if all the storm does is lose.

 

[Cats]

iron warriors

That's what I decided I was going to paint my 3D printed Leviathan Dreadnought proxy as. Just got it in the mail yesterday :]

It's a little plain, but still neat. I might consider getting another print from this guy, since he cleaned it up nicely for me.
The big shoulder panels are perfect spot for some hazard stripes.


I got the deathshroud bodyguard terminator bases in too so I will be working on these today. I am thinking of contrast yellow so the runes will glow a sickly color.

 

[AncientPhosphur]

I just want them to finally get to night lords taking out the Eldar

 

[p1138]

You might as well not have them in the first place, if this is all they can do.

Ok, so lets say Chaos suddenly gets its shit together and counter to the name suddenly becomes an organized force and wins. Then what? Congratulations, war is over. The only way that works is if some fucky warp shit happens and GW pulls another "end times" and uses it to hit the reset button for 40k like they did for AoS, and do you seriously want that even considered? Come on.

Also, you've mentioned transformers and decepticons. Yes, they took over cybertron, it was also an empty wasteland for millions of years just being watched over by a couple of decepticons and a couple autobots that could barely be bothered to do anything. Right up until... Hasbro killed off all of the g1 characters and basically replaced them all with the equivalent of primaris transformers in an effort to sell new toys(sound familiar?) and up until that point the decepticons on Earth had managed to do absolutely fuck all even though the computer on the autobots ship they were on decided to give the decepticons the advantage of basically being all military vehicles, weapons, and other shit that could actually participate in combat, handicapping the autobots. All you had out of that conflict was 3 seasons of at best idiotic stalemate before the big reset button that was the original cartoon movie, and even after that they still had to turn galvatron into a crazy buffoon to keep the decepticons from just winning again, and then still had to capitulate to demands of fans and brought back optimus prime twice even. The biggest threat the transformers faced after the movie wasn't even the decepticons, it was the stupid "hate plague".

When an entire IP revolves around a conflict, you can't continue to do much with it if that conflict just ends.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

I just want them to finally get to night lords taking out the Eldar

That will never happen. Eldar players won't talk to GW anymore.

Ok, so lets say Chaos suddenly gets its shit together and counter to the name suddenly becomes an organized force and wins. Then what? Congratulations, war is over. The only way that works is if some fucky warp shit happens and GW pulls another "end times" and uses it to hit the reset button for 40k like they did for AoS, and do you seriously want that even considered? Come on.

Not really. If it were me, I'd make it an even, WW1-style fight with both of them being at least at equal fighting terms, equal numbers of worlds, manpower, tech, and so on. They alternate between fighting each other and fighting other Xenos threats, and sometimes, in cases of an Ork WAAAAAAGH, some Necron worlds awakening, or a major Tyranid incursion, they might even put aside their enmity to join forces and repel the alien threat from human worlds, only to start shooting at each other again once the deed's done and they no longer need to be afraid of a larger alien threat.

Sure, this won't change much, but it would at least make the main evil faction in the game more dignified than ''SPACE TEAM ROCKET THAT'S TOO STUPID TO GET SHIT DONE''. Again, it makes the Emperor being so fearful of Chaos corruption look stupid if all they do is fight each other and get nothing of substance done in 10K years.

Also, you've mentioned transformers and decepticons. Yes, they took over cybertron, it was also an empty wasteland for millions of years just being watched over by a couple of decepticons and a couple autobots that could barely be bothered to do anything. Right up until... Hasbro killed off all of the g1 characters and basically replaced them all with the equivalent of primaris transformers in an effort to sell new toys(sound familiar?) and up until that point the decepticons on Earth had managed to do absolutely fuck all even though the computer on the autobots ship they were on decided to give the decepticons the advantage of basically being all military vehicles, weapons, and other shit that could actually participate in combat, handicapping the autobots. All you had out of that conflict was 3 seasons of at best idiotic stalemate before the big reset button that was the original cartoon movie, and even after that they still had to turn galvatron into a crazy buffoon to keep the decepticons from just winning again, and then still had to capitulate to demands of fans and brought back optimus prime twice even. The biggest threat the transformers faced after the movie wasn't even the decepticons, it was the stupid "hate plague".

Again, at the very least, the Decepticons accomplished their version of driving the Imperium away from Terra before becoming a bunch of useless cartoon idiots slapping each other in the face for a swig of energon. They at least accomplished something meaningful. And after the movie, the Decepticons were weakened massively, since their army that ruled Cybertron was destroyed in Unicron's attack. So no, it wasn't an empty wasteland for millions of years, it had an army and a leader guarding it and keeping most of it united until Unicron showed his face and annihilated most of them.

Prior to Unicron pancaking the Decepticon forces, Shockwave ruled Cybertron and had a large Decepticon army guarding it, to the point where the female Autobots that got left behind had to act as guerillas. That's like, what if Chaos conquered Terra, and say, Perturabo or Magnus the Red rules it in the name of the Chaos Gods, and some Battle Sisters remain within the throne-world acting as guerillas against the Chaos forces.

 

[p1138]

Sure, this won't change much, but it would at least make the main evil faction in the game more dignified than ''SPACE TEAM ROCKET THAT'S TOO STUPID TO GET SHIT DONE''. Again, it makes the Emperor being so fearful of Chaos corruption look stupid if all they do is fight each other and get nothing of substance done in 10K years.

Yes, that was the point. Chaos corruption causes people to act like fools and get nothing done which was completely counter to the unification and conquering of the galaxy that the emperor wanted to do. 10000 years later, religion is back, there's a bunch of infighting, etc. the emperor worshippers might as well be chaos themselves. The unification of terra and great crusade before the heresy was all of what, 500 years? And a large part of that before even finding the primarchs? Humanity was very quickly on its way to getting its shit together right up until the emperor fucked up again, just like he had repeatedly fucked up throughout the entirety of human history.

Chaos isn't the only faction of terminally dumb characters in 40k.

Even if the necrons all woke up, they're so concerned with their own infighting most of the time they see humans as ants on their lawn.
Dark Eldar couldn't give a shit what happens to anyone so long as they can keep raiding something to keep up the torture shit to avoid falling to slaanesh.
Eldar have been written into a brick wall and make no sense, same for harlequins. There's a reason they just gave up with the ynnari.
Tau have no idea wtf is going on in the galaxy and are constantly getting kicked in the teeth by orks, nids, etc.
Orks only exist as a punching bag
Nids are an eldritch hive mind horror that can't really get its own lore because it can't have characters in any meaningful way(similar to how the borg went to shit in star trek when they needed a borg queen and crap). And can't be much more than a "looming menace" because if they did show up in full force and win, GW would just have to hit the reset button.
GSC only exist as a plot device/punching bag(like the orks) at this point.
Votann barely even have lore so don't count for anything. They've got one short story outside of their codex, and that's mostly about necrons.

If this is just becoming a realization to you about 40k, I don't know what else to tell you. But what you want is never going to happen unless GW wants an end times and I don't see that happening without fucking everything up even worse. If you want to play 40k, but want things to be more like ww1... that's exactly what the Horus Heresy game is for, and thematically it's fucking boring due to a distinct lack of variety(which is also why that legions imperialis shit was a massive disappointment instead of us getting epic 40k back).

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Chaos isn't the only faction of terminally dumb characters in 40k.

That is the point. Everyone is so terminally dumb, they get nothing done of note. I suppose this is where the fans take over and create their own stories, since back in the old days, the story never moved forward and was always set at some kind of ''5 minutes before everything goes tits up'' kind of thing.

But that was the old days; now the Imperium's gotten back on its feet with Guilliman's return, the Primaris reinforcing dying chapters, the Indomitus Crusade, and now, the Lion coming back. Instead of a scenario where it's ''5 minutes before we're all fucked'', it's a slow, but rising tide of the Imperium getting better. Thing is, can't Chaos and the other Xenos have their own re-awakening where they become more capable? My guess is no; they're doomed to be shotgun fodder so all the books can be written mostly from Space Marine POVs where they kill Chaos or Xenos like it's getting mundane.

 

[Company_Commander_64]

Ok, so lets say Chaos suddenly gets its shit together and counter to the name suddenly becomes an organized force and wins. Then what? Congratulations, war is over. The only way that works is if some fucky warp shit happens and GW pulls another "end times" and uses it to hit the reset button for 40k like they did for AoS, and do you seriously want that even considered? Come on.

Isn't the whole point of the black legion is that they kinda have their shit together? They're a semi unified chaos force to fight against the imperium. You don't have to have them topple the imperium but fuck the least GW can do is make them a real threat or give them a real win. Because if they actually won in any significant way once in a while it would make them showing actually exciting instead of "oh there's some spiky cannon fodder neat".

After all stories are only as good as their villans and right now "abadon the failure" isn't cutting it.

 

[The tired cat]

So question, would a Blood Angels Dreadnaught work well if I wanna kitbash it into a Ork Deff Dredd?

 

[p1138]

Isn't the whole point of the black legion is that they kinda have their shit together? They're a semi unified chaos force to fight against the imperium. You don't have to have them topple the imperium but fuck the least GW can do is make them a real threat or give them a real win. Because if they actually won in any significant way once in a while it would make them showing actually exciting instead of "oh there's some spiky cannon fodder neat".

No. It's that they're loosely and halfassed "unified" going so far as to get into fights in front of Abaddon and constantly backstab eachother at any chance because everyone in the legion is vying to try and gain favor with their god in an attempt to flip abaddon to one particular side. If anything at this point they're probably the worst chaos faction as far as getting anything done because they're basically the epitome of chaos failing to get along for long enough to accomplish something.

When Mortarion and Typhus aren't in a spat like mommy and daddy not getting along, deathguard and nurgle's demons have some coherency and can make a solid attempt at something. As stupid as the world eaters and khorne worshippers are, if they aren't distracted by something they can at least smash something apart. Ahriman is busy faffing about, but the rest of the thousand sons and tzeentch demons are too busy scheming and manipulating shit to do anything(same with the alpha legion really). EC and slaanesh for the most part are too busy being coomers and whatever the hell else.

After all stories are only as good as their villans and right now "abadon the failure" isn't cutting it.

He hasn't been cutting it for 2 decades, and never will. He isn't even a primarch as far as GW cares so couldn't come close to leading as one to get anything done.

 

[IAmNotAlpharius]

none of the Chaos Gods would be willing to ally with the woketards.

They’d be canon fodder for chaos, imperium, or genestealers.

The grifters have been predicting GW's fall for quite some time now.

GW came close about a decade ago but it took them a long time to get there and they went into overdrive to build up good will. People also forget how long it took for them to get to their low point. They also were a lot more screwed up back then. There was no FAQs, 0 internet presence or engagement, and white dwarf slipped in quality.

IMO femstodes isn’t a short term problem for GW necessarily. The greater problem imo are people being less enthusiastic to buy minis so essentially less sales, especially with how often they’re just squatting armies and units. It’s not just one grievance but hundreds combined with the proliferation of 3d printing. Essentially anyone with a grievance (femstodes, GW being fascist, not liking the current codex, etc), can just 3d print for their hobby itch or buy from someone who does.

I don’t think it’ll kill them overnight just undercut some of their sales. But it can hurt them long run and it could spiral out of control. I think their stores in the UK are at greater risk because they don’t let people play in a lot of their stores unless it’s a demo. Which is retarded. One of the things online stores which sell at a cheaper rate and Etsy can’t provide is a physical game space. People will buy things from their local stores because it provides a place to play and a community. Also people will buy things from stores/employees they like. So imo they need goodwill if they want higher sales.

I dont understand why so much people complain about progression either it barely moves now people who still complain about progression are just mad their head canons failed.

The people who whined the loudest about the plot progressing were whining the loudest about the plot not progressing. At least the ones I know in meat space and a lot of the early lore youtubers. Be careful what you wish for.

So question, would a Blood Angels Dreadnaught work well if I wanna kitbash it into a Ork Deff Dredd?

The Orks can basically loot anything. So yeah it’d work. The nice thing with Orks is that you can use pretty much use anything as a base for a vehicle.

So like I said, they will be forever losers, and that just saps any fun, suspense, or thrill at fighting them. The way they write Chaos, it isn't good for the story, and it doesn't actually help anything. It's just more shotgun fodder for the Imperium to beat.

Chaos is in the unfortunate position where they can’t win because it’d nuke the setting. It’s what made fantasy and old times specifically jarring. Chaos and specifically Chaos warriors were one of the favorite factions of a lot of the early writers/game devs.

I like your idea of a chaos imperium or at least focus more on the warbands/chaos held territory in the warp. It’d make them more interesting, allow them to be a threat, and they could lose or gain ground.

 

[Male Idiot]

Wait... so the Imperial Herald says that... there should be a superior race of Custodes, trying to rule over humans?

Could their sleep cycle last for millenia? We quickly need to put some machine guns in Krieg cyborgs!