Team Fortress 2 - Hat Fortress 2: America's #1 War-themed Hat Simulator

[Conan]

The fact that the furry is referring to zestyjesus as "the youtuber" like some Harry Potter fan afraid of saying Voldemort should be enough reason to ignore them

 

[chimpSculpture]

I remember there was a small but vocal group of people calling this back in 2019-2020 and nobody fucking listened lol and they were just losing it over the shattered player highs.

A lot of TF2's player base has this opinion that Valve should resume actively developing the game, and that it's egregious they don't. The major justification used is the large and active player base, this large false player count is all a lie that's is in everyone's interest to propagate. Players want justifications for Valve to continue developing the game, TF2 YouTube channels won't say a game's dead if a source of revenue relies on it, and I'm sure employees who used to work on the game personally enjoy how "it's stood the test of time". It's not a conspiracy or anything like that but it's just something that's naturally emerged.

I think a key point to make is that TF2 is a casual game, it's not like Counter-Strike where a huge majority of the player base is hardcore and dedicated to playing every day. I don't know about anyone else here but I don't play the game every day, and go weeks without launching the game.

I do believe there is way more than 30K or whatever players who I'd consider "active". If you go to any recently uploaded popular TF2 YouTube video, you'll see they have 100K - 300K views, not all of them are active players obviously, but there's way more active players I believe. This video has gotten almost 150K views in two days.

How people are automatically accepting item notifications, a system put in place in 2013 to stop automatically gathering items through idling

That's stupid, these bot developers have complete control on what their client can do, as if they couldn't get around this.

How accounts are trading their accumulated items without spending necessary $5 in the Steam store (not Steam community market)

Maybe accounts created in some countries don't have this restriction, presumably Venezuela or Turkey? What's you point anyway? Do you not think these accounts aren't money making bots? There's much more evidence these accounts are made to generate revenue, and very little evidence saying the opposite.

 

[That Guy You Know]

Coming from the AoE3 community where everybody hates each other and the updates, it's so funny to see the forced positivity of TF2 community (THEY ADDED SNAKES TO SNAKEWATER).
When i try to play a year ago i couldn't find any matches with more than 5 players in each team at relatively okeyish hours.

Another crackpot theory; Some mentally ill furry is keeping the numbers up so people can't say that TF2 is death; in al seriousness, in my highly uninformed opinion, I believe the reason to keep the numbers up it's to keep prices of unusual hats and shit high; death game = no players, no player = no interest, no interest = nobody gives a shit about your super rare cosmetics, nobody gives a shit about your super rare cosmetics = drop in prices.
TF2 whole cosmetic / loot crate system has always rubbed me the wrong way, it's was worst that peak Overwatch (1) if I recall correctly (weapons skins have "grades", that's a very shitty precedent), but the few times that people bring up the shit show that TF2 cosmetics are people got super mad and defensive.

I had always thought that this current state of TF2 is like a sweet spot for trade fags. Alive enough for faggots to still care about trading, but dead enough for them to do whatever they want on the economy side. All the inflation of some older fairly expensive items is retarded now like the Strange Original. I assume the prices of stuff like that got pumped up so that losers feel some more good girl dopamine when looking at their backpack page. Backpack.tf might as well just be a roleplay site for some dumb monopoly.

 

[Seventh Star]

I don't know about anyone else here but I don't play the game every day, and go weeks without launching the game.

I'm not playing while VAC doesn't do shit. I think a good point Zesty makes is that Valve still has monetization enabled yet refuses to fix the game, which is scummy, and he's right.

 

[GNU Abyss]

However, I will throw this video's central theory a bone. Someone (not the youtuber) has been doing something slightly more scientific to try and figure out what's going on, and by "scientific" I mean a random 4chan user has been using Giftapult items to randomly award items to people currently playing TF2. He is doing this at 2AM when the game simply isn't alive, granted, and that suggests to me the chances of gifting an item to a bot is higher... but it's more than the youtuber did.

Interesting find and clever method. I may try this for fun as well when the game traffic is low, as good an opportunity as any to test the Teamwork.TF player data graph. Call me biased, but this looks like putting the theories of the video to the test and getting confirmation.

Or the Giftapult item may be broken, as those accounts don't appear to have premium yet (you can tell by the low amount of inventory slots they possess) yet the Giftapult item description says only online players with premium may receive those gifts.

This item may be used to pack one tradable item in the user's backpack and deliver it to a random online player. This item can only be used if the user has a premium account.

Only the user of the Giftapult needs to have Premium, it doesn't say anything about the party receiving the gift.

 

[Willie B. Hardigan]

I've looked into possible methods across various large cheating/hacking/hustling forums like Nulled or Unknowncheats for software that does all this, but all anyone seems to know how to do is fake playtime, and there's absolutely no tools for auto-accepting in-game items. If you don't accept a drop you simply won't receive any more. I believe this would something a layman could actually find, as skids make up so much of anything annoying on the internet (and if you've ever come up with anything that even suggests making money, you are probably familiar with hundreds of third-worlders soliciting you for the details.)

Your entire post does have some decent questions that should be considered or at the very least further analyzed in ways that go beyond what was given in the hour-long video since it's more like a general presentation of the botting discrepancy in TF2. I was disappointed it didn't go into extreme detail about the various systems that enable such a massive influx of idlers since exposing the inner workers would do a lot of good to help combat the issue on the ground or at least make the public more aware, but it ended on the anti-climatic "We simply don't know how they do it". I'm sure with a little finesse he could have gotten into contact with somebody willing to relay even more information or at the very least delved into the bot farming scene for other similar games to find connections back to TF2's trading. See how they get around the various obstacles put in place for them then converse with somebody who can decently code to see if such things are also possible in the Hat Simulator 2024.

The source code for the game and other titles using the Source engine has been leaked publicly since 2020 and probably reversed-engineered way before then so it should not be that outlandish to consider programs have already been made to circumvent anything Valve throws at their way. We can all assume they exist in theory but you're demanding actual instances that can be used effectively which is pretty understandable especially if a person is not fully convinced that idlers are such a significant problem. Valve does care about the economics of TF2 at least they should since in the past they have punished people who exploit the economy in serious ways as with the April 2010 update and apparent massive cullings they do before every "major" update. How much effort they put into combatting them we don't know but given their apathy towards TF2 in recent years it's probably last in position for janitorial work in favor of Counter-Strike, Dota, etc.

A good point of comparison would be Runescape which is also an old ass game with a robust trading economy that has people botting to gain what they claim to be thousands of dollars. There are differences between the two but if they can survive into the modern day and also take up a significant amount of its player base then somebody could speculate similar shenanigans elsewhere that are equally as profitable or stable. Again this is based on educated guesses and potential false correlations that don't exist in reality because an issue this large has numerous variables to consider to even get a decent, accurate, understanding. Simple point graphs won't be enough to settle things forever.

After rewatching the video, considering counter-arguments, and my personal, but still limited, experience with the subject I would say that what ZestyJesus asserts isn't entirely without merit, mainly due to the fact the issue has already been talked about by others before, but the thing everyone will not agree on is the scope. He has some information to stand on to make these statements have slightly more credibility than randoms on the internet like me, at least in the eyes of the wider public. We can't say he's 100% correct since he couldn't be due to the missing info he acknowledges but probably on the right track, though through means that could misdirect from the actual truth. If there's one thing positive we can say about the entire ordeal is that it's gotten everybody researching the same matter which will obviously lead to even more insight into previously concealed dealings within the botting crisis and its community.

I hope something positive happens since despite my hatred of what TF2 has become in recent years, I still don't want it to become a ghost town with nothing but robots. It would be great if Zesty were wrong so that the idea the game will always have a sizable player base for as long as the servers stay up is a reality and not a hopeful fantasy by the delusional. My intuition tells me that things aren't over, but there is little to be optimistic about for the future. Sad to think some never got to experience the livelier version of Team Fortress 2 that I got to enjoy for what seemed like years. It really was something special.

 

[chimpSculpture]

I'm not playing while VAC doesn't do shit. I think a good point Zesty makes is that Valve still has monetization enabled yet refuses to fix the game, which is scummy, and he's right.

The only thing people are paying for are keys and MvM tickets. People are happy with their shitty hats and MvM works. Bots are only really an issue on Valve's casual servers, if you play any other server you won't have bots joining the game and even when they do join, they get kicked immediately because the player base of these server aren't nine year olds who just installed the game. What's "monetization enabled" supposed to mean anyway? you know it's free-to-play. When the game launched and you had to pay for it it didn't even have Valve hosted servers for years. They're not the whole game.

Are you saying that disabling "monetization" would be better? Making MvM free with no drops and no longer releasing cosmetic cases is going to make it okay for them to not develop the game anymore? You'd still think their "scummy" because you're entitled.

 

[GNU Abyss]

I hope something positive happens since despite my hatred of what TF2 has become in recent years, I still don't want it to become a ghost town with nothing but robots. It would be great if Zesty were wrong so that the idea the game will always have a sizable player base for as long as the servers stay up is a reality and not a hopeful fantasy by the delusional. My intuition tells me that things aren't over, but there is little to be optimistic about for the future. Sad to think some never got to experience the livelier version of Team Fortress 2 that I got to enjoy for what seemed like years. It really was something special.

Even Zesty hasn't claimed TF2 is over or dead. The silver lining is that the core playerbase that remained after the shitshow of MYM hasn't changed much in numbers. Experiencing the old TF2 today would be impossible because nobody is willing to organize community servers and, more importantly, nu-TF2 players have no desire to play much of anything outside of Casual MM and Skial/Inceltopia slop.

 

[Queen Aleena]

Even Zesty hasn't claimed TF2 is over or dead. The silver lining is that the core playerbase that remained after the shitshow of MYM hasn't changed much in numbers. Experiencing the old TF2 today would be impossible because nobody is willing to organize community servers and, more importantly, nu-TF2 players have no desire to play much of anything outside of Casual MM and Skial/Inceltopia slop.

There' an elaborate plugin to bring back 2007 TF2 already in existence. There is also TF2 Classic but they lost the plot and started adding non-vanilla things. Uncletopia is relatively "new" as far as community servers go, but things like Kogasatopia or Tiny Kitty Girl Pound (these occupy opposite ends of the political spectrum) came into existence as early as 2023 if you're looking for recent evidence.

 

[Seventh Star]

more importantly, nu-TF2 players have no desire to play much of anything outside of Casual MM and Skial/Inceltopia slop.

The game is dead outside the US and Europe. South America servers are constant orange/2fort trash slop with two to three servers max having people in them with faggot jannies that manage them, casual servers are fucked, and Uncletopia and the like are too high ping to get to.

 

[ABE LINN COHN]

Making MvM free with no drops

It already is, retard. It's called Boot Camp and it's existed since 2012.

 

[piombo]

Are you saying that disabling "monetization" would be better? Making MvM free with no drops and no longer releasing cosmetic cases is going to make it okay for them to not develop the game anymore? You'd still think their "scummy" because you're entitled.

Yes, vac is going to remain a joke no matter what happens, and there's literally no reason to have any further official shitting on the game:

1. The cosmetics in the recent (post 2020, but maybe even before) cases are mostly from tranny workshop furries that suck each other off and rely on random reddit memes to make them.
2. The last few times Valve touched the game (outside of the 64-bit conversion and the relative random exploit patches that is) it went horribly wrong and made the situation exponentially worse for anyone that wanted to just play the game (MyM, Jungle inferno and the most recent MVM """"tweaks""""), or it was so bad that it got forgotten a month (or less) after it got added in the game ("competitive", pass time, VSH, and i think mannpower)
3. mvm with no drops existed since the game mode got implemented, official version is boot camp and nobody plays that anymore, so it's more about the individual servers that host custom mvm campaigns, which are exponentially better than the official missions because god forbid they don't make you fall asleep while you play them.

 

[chimpSculpture]

Yes, vac is going to remain a joke no matter what happens, and there's literally no reason to have any further official shitting on the game:

1. The cosmetics in the recent (post 2020, but maybe even before) cases are mostly from tranny workshop furries that suck each other off and rely on random reddit memes to make them.
2. The last few times Valve touched the game (outside of the 64-bit conversion and the relative random exploit patches that is) it went horribly wrong and made the situation exponentially worse for anyone that wanted to just play the game (MyM, Jungle inferno and the most recent MVM """"tweaks""""), or it was so bad that it got forgotten a month (or less) after it got added in the game ("competitive", pass time, VSH, and i think mannpower)
3. mvm with no drops existed since the game mode got implemented, official version is boot camp and nobody plays that anymore, so it's more about the individual servers that host custom mvm campaigns, which are exponentially better than the official missions because god forbid they don't make you fall asleep while you play them.

This isn't my point, my point is that it's not better to remove "monetization" from the game. It's not scummy for them to keep these things in the game (things people are willing to pay for). Don't get me wrong either I hate all the cosmetics, I play with the mod that removes all of then off a player-model.

And yes I know what MvM Boot Camp is, I've got enough tours to know. You don't understand what I was saying.

 

[piombo]

This isn't my point, my point is that it's not better to remove "monetization" from the game. It's not scummy for them to keep these things in the game (things people are willing to pay for). Don't get me wrong either I hate all the cosmetics, I play with the mod that removes all of then off a player-model.

And yes I know what MvM Boot Camp is, I've got enough tours to know. You don't understand what I was saying.

then i'll make it a bit more explicit, it would be exponentially better for everyone if the examples that you bring up (but i'll also extend it to unusuals, weapon skins, and anything else associated with these) were to be disabled or outright removed, beyond the ethics of it, it would do several good things

1. it would kill the economy of this game, the terminal cancer of it and it needs no explantions
2. which would theoretically evolve in the death of major trading hubs and bot hosters, another tumor of this game
3. which then it'd de-incentivize trading as a way to play this game, and that would mean that the majority of the traders would fuck off to nevermore, and majority of trade bots would end up disabled, since there would be would be no customers to make money off and keep the jig up

but there has never been anyone nor there will be anyone that has the required integrity or strength to pull this off, as i covered before, valve/the devs of this game are both too incompetent and greedy to pull it off, so we will be stuck with the eternal rot that is this economy.

also important thing, bringing up tours to talk of experience is not a good idea, those aren't a show of skill or experience, they're a show of how much of a whale you are for the funny gacha, which if they go above the single digits, gives me the rights to tell you to spend that money on something more productive like hookers or drugs and then to kurt kobain yourself.

 

[The Homelander]

Insane levels of cope radiating off this thread. I don't really give a shit what you say, you can't convince me a game made in 2007 that doesn't get updates has anywhere near 70,000 players at any given time, let alone peaks of 100-200 thousand. That's how many people are playing fucking Helldivers 2, a brand new game with regular updates and way more mainstream hype and appeal.

EDIT: I also think it's worth mentioning that when launched in Text mode, you can (despite what Valve might say) receive item drops, and any retard could create a program to auto accept item drops

 

[chimpSculpture]

then i'll make it a bit more explicit, it would be exponentially better for everyone if the examples that you bring up (but i'll also extend it to unusuals, weapon skins, and anything else associated with these) were to be disabled or outright removed, beyond the ethics of it, it would do several good things

1. it would kill the economy of this game, the terminal cancer of it and it needs no explantions
2. which would theoretically evolve in the death of major trading hubs and bot hosters, another tumor of this game
3. which then it'd de-incentivize trading as a way to play this game, and that would mean that the majority of the traders would fuck off to nevermore, and majority of trade bots would end up disabled, since there would be would be no customers to make money off and keep the jig up

but there has never been anyone nor there will be anyone that has the required integrity or strength to pull this off, as i covered before, valve/the devs of this game are both too incompetent and greedy to pull it off, so we will be stuck with the eternal rot that is this economy.

How does the economy existing affect me whilst I'm in a server playing 2fort? Why should I care if someone wants to waste money on something they want? It's not reasonable to expect Valve to pay for servers for a game that's free-to-play. There are other costs other than the Casual servers too.

also important thing, bringing up tours to talk of experience is not a good idea, those aren't a show of skill or experience, they're a show of how much of a whale you are for the funny gacha, which if they go above the single digits, gives me the rights to tell you to spend that money on something more productive like hookers or drugs and then to kurt kobain yourself.

All I said is I've played MvM enough to know the difference between the two buttons "Mann Up" and "Boot Camp". I think all my MvM tickets are from selling TF and CS cases, maybe a few from my balance if that's such a sin.

 

[The Homelander]

then i'll make it a bit more explicit, it would be exponentially better for everyone if the examples that you bring up (but i'll also extend it to unusuals, weapon skins, and anything else associated with these) were to be disabled or outright removed, beyond the ethics of it, it would do several good things

1. it would kill the economy of this game, the terminal cancer of it and it needs no explantions
2. which would theoretically evolve in the death of major trading hubs and bot hosters, another tumor of this game
3. which then it'd de-incentivize trading as a way to play this game, and that would mean that the majority of the traders would fuck off to nevermore, and majority of trade bots would end up disabled, since there would be would be no customers to make money off and keep the jig up

but there has never been anyone nor there will be anyone that has the required integrity or strength to pull this off, as i covered before, valve/the devs of this game are both too incompetent and greedy to pull it off, so we will be stuck with the eternal rot that is this economy.

also important thing, bringing up tours to talk of experience is not a good idea, those aren't a show of skill or experience, they're a show of how much of a whale you are for the funny gacha, which if they go above the single digits, gives me the rights to tell you to spend that money on something more productive like hookers or drugs and then to kurt kobain yourself.

"I don't like the economy so it shouldn't exist!" fucking brilliant take there. Would expect that of someone who still thinks the game will ever get another serious look from Valve. stupid fuck. If people want to create value from flaming pixels I say let them. I think its incredible that any items hold their value at all with the games current state.

 

[piombo]

How does the economy existing affect me whilst I'm in a server playing 2fort? Why should I care if someone wants to waste money on something they want? It's not reasonable to expect Valve to pay for servers for a game that's free-to-play. There are other costs other than the Casual servers too.

more power to you that it doesn't affect you? it still doesn't change the fact that traders and their ilk are a blight by default and have been the direct cause of these inflated player counts (at the very least), which makes enough of an argument over why this game shouldn't have its economy supported any further, unless you want to tell me that what is fundamentally speaking false advertising (at best) is very good and totally helps the game, Zesty's video pretty much covers what needs to be covered on this entire situation.

and also under your own argument, what is it to you if the economy flat-lines? skial/uncletopia/whatever the fuck servers won't magically disappear if the economy is gonna flat-line, they're not valve's property and certantly valve dropping support (again) doesn't have any power over them being online and whatnot.

and to which are you seriously telling me that valve's part of this game is sustained by whales buying cosmetics, taunts and tickets from the steam and in-game market?

and as well, should I also feel bad for a multi-millionare company that decided to host their own servers on a game that is always going to be a negative no matter what happens AND that it fails to keep a mininum of quality because they can't cope with cheaters coming in and shitting entire games, because as again VAC is a piece of shit that everyone can easily override?

and also i'm interested in the other costs outside of their own servers (and the item servers), could you elaborate on that?

All I said is I've played MvM enough to know the difference between the two buttons "Mann Up" and "Boot Camp".

or is this bait and i fell for it? you literally don't need to play mvm to understand the difference between these two.

I don't like the economy so it shouldn't exist!" fucking brilliant take there. Would expect that of someone who still thinks the game will ever get another serious look from Valve. stupid fuck. If people want to create value from flaming pixels I say let them. I think its incredible that any items hold their value at all with the games current state.

calm the fuck down you nigger? i don't recall implying that the developers of this game gave a singular shit about this game ever since jungle inferno dropped, and that's being very optimistic about it, since when it dropped it was pretty much for the worse for everyone really.
beyond that, refer to the rest of this thread over why traders and their shenanigans have been a blight over this entire game lifespan.

 

[The Homelander]

Lol, cry me a river you sniveling pussy. You know who else wants shit they don't like sabotaged and made impossible to exist? Trannies, that's who. What are your pronouns, piombo?

 

[Sarn’t]

Played tf2 yesterday, personally I liked it.