who remembers Tom Clancy? - despite being dead, his name still pops up...

skykiii

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Jun 17, 2018
I'm sure you've at least heard the name Tom Clancy, particularly if you're a gamer: Since the 1990s there's been dozens of "Tom Clancy's Something-or-Other" games of varying quality (the original Rainbow Six was quite good, but I can't speak to anything else).

But before that, Tom Clancy was a stockbroker-turned-novelist whose first big hit was the 1986 novel The Hunt for Red October, later turned into a movie starring Sean Connery. The book was an immediate success and gave Clancy a career, and also immediately established what he was most known for: an almost obsessive-compulsive attention to detail.... and a capacity for making really good guesses (some of the stuff he described in Red October was so close to actual existing-but-Classified technology that Clancy actually got interviewed by government agents who thought he might have inside information).

I was actually a fan of Clancy for a long time. I first discovered his books in high school, and rediscovered them a decade later, though at the time I also became aware of the other thing Clancy was (in)famous for.... being a massive sell-out who uses ghost writers.

So, best I can figure out, the following books are actual Clancy:

The Hunt for Red October
Red Storm Rising
Patriot Games
The Cardinal of the Kremlin
Clear and Present Danger
The Sum of All Fears

Anything that isn't one of these six has a high chance of being ghostwritten, even if it does not say so on the cover. And all the "series" books (Op-Center, Net Force, etc) outright admit to being ghost-written right on the cover. (That said, I've heard some of these are actually good regardless, so take a chance if you want).

What I can say is.... Red October is definitely worth reading, but Clancy's style can be a mixed bag for people. He's very detailed and technical, and sometimes it can be hard to follow (I recall not really having a clear idea what The Cardinal of the Kremlin was even about at times). However, at his best, Clancy is an interesting read.

The main thrust of his books is basically, "what would happen if X occured?" Like "what would happen if a man with a powerful prototype submarine wanted to defect to the United States?" He details how the world governments might respond, from the departmental wrangling to the on-the-field action. His novels, basically, give you an idea how the machinery of government actually works.... and somehow managing this while still having human drama along the way. As confusing as Cardinal of the Kremlin was, a certain scene near the end still made me well up a bit.

I'm gonna say this right now... the films based on his books usually suck, and part of that is because its impossible to do justice to the scope of his books in that format.

There is another thing though.... I might get a "politisperging" sticker for mentioning this, but: Clancy was conservative, while Hollywood is and always was notoriously left-leaning. I actually remember last time I watched the film version of Red October that you could totally tell the story was being re-interpreted through a liberal lens.

..... Anyway, it saddens me that a lot of people have technically heard of Tom Clancy but have never read any of his actual books, and usually only know him for video games or movies that he actually had basically no involvement with.

Have you ever read a Clancy novel? Which one? What did you think of it?
 
Ubisoft should be castrated and hanged for despoiling Tom Clancy's name. He's also the guy who is credited for "the difference between fiction and reality is that fiction has to make sense" quote. Which makes sense as worldbuilding requires a large amount of consideration (and even history reading) to take inspiration out of. I vividly remember here that someone mentioned that the beginning of Man of Steel had parallels to the fall of the Roman Republic, which is what I mean by the history inspirations.

We all have seen what happens when lore and worldbuilding are built from people pulling ideas out of their ass without building the pieces.
 
Wait, do you really think Red Rabbit and Rainbow Six were ghostwritten, because they seem pretty on-brand for Clancy. Genuine question.
I can't speak for Red Rabbit, but I remember Rainbow Six having a lot that just felt "off" and made me think "Clancy didn't write this."

One of the big red flags for me (and again: I risk politisperging by bringing this up) was there's a chapter where the Rainbow team, in a moment of downtime, get into a discussion of gun control and private gun ownership... and unanimously agree that private citizens should not own guns. I think there's even a line like "its silly how Americans are so attached to their guns" or some such, but I would have to double-check.

Which, okay, authors can write characters who don't parrot their own beliefs, or perhaps at some point Tom Clancy had a change of heart on the gun control issue (he had previously published an essay where he took a pro-gun stance)... but if I were a betting man, my money would be on "Clancy didn't write this book."
 
Which, okay, authors can write characters who don't parrot their own beliefs, or perhaps at some point Tom Clancy had a change of heart on the gun control issue (he had previously published an essay where he took a pro-gun stance)... but if I were a betting man, my money would be on "Clancy didn't write this book."
Or he was contractually obligated to write about that issue for whatever reason. Maybe part of schmoozing the publisher or something.
 
Which, okay, authors can write characters who don't parrot their own beliefs, or perhaps at some point Tom Clancy had a change of heart on the gun control issue (he had previously published an essay where he took a pro-gun stance)... but if I were a betting man, my money would be on "Clancy didn't write this book."
Interesting, wasn't aware of that. I just assumed he was one of those boomers who thinks guns are for hunting and self-defence is what the police is for.

The real issue with his books is his blatant anglophilia 🇬🇧
 
Op is correct in his real Clancy choices, but incorrect in removing Rainbow 6.
That is genuine Clancy, but he didn't write it as a book. It was a screenplay that got converted to the game we all know and hate instead, which is why it feels off. He then rewrote it as a book for the game release (since they waved obscenely large wads of cash in his face) as a tie in, and hated doing it.

It shows.
 
But before that, Tom Clancy was a stockbroker-turned-novelist whose first big hit was the 1986 novel The Hunt for Red October
Incorrect. He was an insurance salesman.

His books are essentially a narrative storytelling talking about various organizations and technologies, with some geopolitics worked in. It's like a wargame in story form (particularly true for Red Storm Rising where he literally used the game Harpoon to wargame his engagements; he also provided supplementary materials for the game).

I can see why it's not everyone's cup of tea. As a fiction writer he stuffs a ton of autistic detail into the story that can make it a slog to get through.

My favorite book of his was the non-fiction MARINE (https://www.amazon.com/Marine-Expeditionary-Clancys-Military-Reference/dp/0425154548) which provided an operational and technical perspective that I leaned on heavily later in life.
 
My first "Tom Clancy" book that I read was Executive Orders, which pretty much called the 9/11 attacks on the capitol but named the wrong guys (The Japanese, lul).

In that one a crazy Japanese guy flew a 747 right into Congress while it was in session (BASED).

Without Remorse was "Hobo with a shotgun" before it was cool.
 
I remember Without Remorse was such a shitty book that it was the first and last Clancy novel I read. Even 19 year old me was able to recognize it as a bunch of Mary-Sue crap.
Without Remorse suffers from Tom Clancy writing romance, which he is incapable of doing. He's had an interesting spread of books over the years. The Hunt for Red October is one of my favorite books while Red Storm Rising put me to sleep. He was the sort of guy who would write a book just because he happened to know a lot about a particular subject and wanted to show off.

I actually thought that Rainbow Six was completely fine. All of the characters were allowed to be competent which is rare enough these days. Decent action slop, don't think too hard about it.

If you see Tom Clancy on the cover but another author wrote it, run.
 
There is another thing though.... I might get a "politisperging" sticker for mentioning this, but: Clancy was conservative, while Hollywood is and always was notoriously left-leaning. I actually remember last time I watched the film version of Red October that you could totally tell the story was being re-interpreted through a liberal lens.

I have read The Sum of All Fears and seen the movie. It is the absolutely best example of this sort of failure when it comes to Tom Clancy's adaptations.

Not only did they change the plot from the book, they changed it in completely unacceptable ways. I could forgive some changed to cope with having the movie set over 10 years after the end of the USSR which would make parts of the book simply impossible, but the way they went about it on the movie were just unacceptable.

It does make a lot of sense why Hollywood changed it though once you read it. It is obvious the producers and writers and such were fucking fuming at the shit Clancy did and wrote. He criticized Israel (in a very mild, neocon way of calling them too paranoid and bad at working with their allies) and he made the terrorists both way too human and way too dangerous for Hollwood (we can't have le innocent nativerinos and wholesome chummy commies shown as this evil). To make matters worse the movie was made just after 9/11 so the original palestinian terrorist connection was just impossible to do because leftists would get mad that they were being portrayed as terrorists while right wingers would have done something retaded like simp for Israel over it or try and hype up the "Clancy writes realistic fiction" onto some sort of nuclear terrorism scare.

It makes it painfully obvious why they made up some Neo-Nazi shit to be the villains. The book might have been extreme bullshit when it came to how to make a nuke (despite his little blurb there was really nothing that any nuclear physics wouldn't already know in the book even before he changed some of it for safety) but he obviously hit way WAY too close to home when it came to talking about how Israel actually ISN'T the Greatest Ally.
 
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