The End of Liberalism as a political philosophy. - The Monarchists were right. The grand experiment has failed.

its also important to note that the King isn't necessarily supposed to be the most capable. He's supposed to embody the State in his person. History is full of Kings who left most of the running of the country to advisors and senior ministers. This is why I'm not a fan of absolute monarchies either. I rather like the idea of hybrid systems and constitutional monarchies where the King is bound to certain higher order principles that even he cannot change, with suitable checks on his power.
How is this different from already existing systems like that of the United States? In this model the King is just the President with a different title, with bibilical teachings serving as the higher order principles rather than the Declaration of Independence. The only apparent difference is the royal seat is hereditary rather than won through a popularity contest.
It seems to me that the real gripe under all your pretend-rationality is that religious principles aren't the binding law of society and liberalism is the Great Satan that exists to be cut down by the righteous sword of God. This is ignoring the fact that these principles can be bent just as easily as secular principles, no matter how many checks and balances you put into place or how righteous you believe your ideology to be. If the DoI can be overridden by power mongers, you can bet your ass the Bible can be edited to suit the needs of the ruler.
Then you don't know alot, because both Jesus and the Apostles taught that Slaves should obey their Masters. That tends to get glossed over or outright ignored by the Church these days, but it should be noted there was also the caveat that the Masters should not abuse their Slaves. Christianity teaches that all men are equal in God's JUSTICE. When all things are judged, we will all be judged fairly and equally. But this also means that a Slave who betrays his master commits a sin, under traditional Christian theology.
Mm, Chrisianity continues to endear itself to me with every discussion.
I'm not arguing for a return to serfdom here though. Far from it.
I don't see how you couldn't be. Your idea seems to be that the meek should serve their betters, while the betters hold the land they live on and it's their and their court's/cabinet's/parliament's right to decide who is allowed to exist within their fiefdom. I'm very much behind meritocracy, but a system in which power is transferred through hereditary lines flies in the face of merit. You say that you aren't advocating for some kind of fatalism or predestination, and I think you believe that, but that doesn't line up with the rest of your argument.

At the very least I appreciate that you're trying to be didactic instead of dismissing me with a "you're just a brainwashed goy, you just wouldn't get it maaaan". It's refreshing.
 
How is this different from already existing systems like that of the United States? In this model the King is just the President with a different title
The President is still elected by the people. Originally indirectly, and then later directly. The big difference between a King and a President is that a King ascends to power through mechanism that do not even consider popular consent. His authority is derived from heaven, not from the people. So an example of a "Hybrid" system would be a Hereditary Monarchy with a coequal branch of elected representatives. Though there could also be a step removed from Hereditary Monarchy as well. Perhaps an upper house made up of Landed Nobles who elect among themselves the King, much like how the Holy Roman Empire functioned at least in principle if not function. Good example of this today would be the Vatican City.

I don't see how you couldn't be. Your idea seems to be that the meek should serve their betters, while the betters hold the land they live on and it's their and their court's/cabinet's/parliament's right to decide who is allowed to exist within their fiefdom. I'm very much behind meritocracy, but a system in which power is transferred through hereditary lines flies in the face of merit. You say that you aren't advocating for some kind of fatalism or predestination, and I think you believe that, but that doesn't line up with the rest of your argument.
More that my argument is that to those who much is given, much should be expected. My point is that Hereditary succession is an inevitable part of human nature. Just look at the proliferation of dynastic families in the modern democracies and tell me this is not true. Some Liberal criticisms of hereditary succession can definitely be adapted however. For example, I rather liked David Webers attempt and envisioning how Monarchy could work in the far future where we have space flight and wat not. His Star Kingdom of Manticore was a Monarchy, but the King or Queen was barred by law from marrying a noble. They had to marry a commoner without exception. Likewise, Laws could only be introduced by the lower "Commons" in Parliament, but could only be ratified with the consent of the upper House of Lords and the Kings signature. This led in Webers mind to situations where more progressive minded Lords or Ladies willingly gave up their noble titles in exchange for the ability to actually push legislation they wanted. No doubt also full of flaws to be poked at, but no system is perfect I do agree.

No society has ever been created where those who are not in power do not serve those who ARE. We are social creatures, with a social hierarchy. No matter where we find ourselves in life, we are always dancing to the whims of someone. Liberalism has this conceit that this is not the natural order and that if we apply enough rights and reason we can transcend this state of affairs. It has without exception failed. Even in Revolutionary States like America, the meek serve the strong, the poor dance to the whims of the rich, and if you step out of line a boot is brought down on your neck.

In societies where a determined effort was made to try and change this state of affairs, like the Soviet Union and China, well, the results were catastrophic and people ended up with more boots on their necks stepping even harder then usual.
 
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His authority is derived from heaven, not from the people.
Bullshit. A king's appointment depends entirely on his competency as a ruler. God has nothing to do with it. The "appointed by God" line exists solely to justify an earthly ruler's authority. It's as much of a pragmatic lie as "all men are created equal" if not more, as the latter is at least true in an abstract sense.
A king is not dictated by God, he is dictated by his ability to kill or disarm his challengers.
Is "will to power" the correct phrase to use here? I never could quite wrap my head around that one. Maybe "might makes right"?
So an example of a "Hybrid" system would be a Hereditary Monarchy with a coequal branch of elected representatives. Though there could also be a step removed from Hereditary Monarchy as well. Perhaps an upper house made up of Landed Nobles who elect among themselves the King, much like how the Holy Roman Empire functioned at least in principle if not function.
I don't see how such a system could be less prone to failure and corruption compared to the current one. Sure you get rid of the popularity contests of elected officials but is hereditary power really all that better? Someone could easily finagle their way to kingship by schmoozing the electors.
Good example of this today would be the Vatican City.
Is it? I can think of no institution more bloated, corrupt and indulgent than that of the Catholic Church.

Now don't get me wrong, I can see the writing on the wall. Whether I like it or not, the current zeitgeist can't hold forever. It could fall apart tomorrow or never in my lifetime, but it's on its way out. That said, I doubt the current paradigm is going give way to a previous paradigm. This idea that egality will give way to the enlightened neo-theocratic-monarchy that you seem to champion is wishful thinking at best.
 
Bullshit. A king's appointment depends entirely on his competency as a ruler. God has nothing to do with it. The "appointed by God" line exists solely to justify an earthly ruler's authority. It's as much of a pragmatic lie as "all men are created equal" if not more, as the latter is at least true in an abstract sense.
A very atheistic take. As we enter this brave new world of AI Generated moderation, always online voting machines, and homogenized cultural products, how much do you trust "the will of the people" in even an abstract sense to provide legitimacy? All sources of legitimacy are abstract and if you get down to it, bullshit. This I agree with. My point is that Popular Consent of the Governed is way more Bullshit then a higher power giving consent. God, whether he is real or fake, is beyond the established powers to control. The people on the other hand are right here and at hand just waiting to get squeezed and coddled in equal measure.

don't see how such a system could be less prone to failure and corruption compared to the current one. Sure you get rid of the popularity contests of elected officials but is hereditary power really all that better? Someone could easily finagle their way to kingship by schmoozing the electors.
Human society is full of flaws. My issue is the integration of power at all levels. Instead of putting society into its natural order Liberalism has instead built the monolithic state. By making sovereign power dependent on the masses, the masses MUST by necessity be controlled by the sovereign power. It also brings us neatly back to the morality argument. In a system with a strong moral and religious framework, the Electors, or the Hereditary King, would be bound by a moral authority that transcends even them and is beyond their power to control. In a Liberal state, morality is simply another restriction on freedom to be overcome.

Is it? I can think of no institution more bloated, corrupt and indulgent than that of the Catholic Church.
The Catholic church is also not responsible for collecting taxes, providing for the common defense and administering justice. Its pretty easy to become bloated and corrupt when you have no real responsibilities. I merely pointed out the election of a pope as an example of how it can be done, not to say the Catholic Church is some sort of paragon itself to be emulated.

Now don't get me wrong, I can see the writing on the wall. Whether I like it or not, the current zeitgeist can't hold forever. It could fall apart tomorrow or never in my lifetime, but it's on its way out. That said, I doubt the current paradigm is going give way to a previous paradigm. This idea that egality will give way to the enlightened neo-theocratic-monarchy that you seem to champion is wishful thinking at best.
No, I think its going to give way to unenlightened corporate syndicalism like what @Save the Loli is arguing for. This is because everyone is stuck in this Liberal paradigm of thinking where they assume that the solution to todays problems is more of the stuff that is poisoning the well.
 
My point is that Popular Consent of the Govern is way more Bullshit then a higher power giving consent. God, whether he is real or fake, is beyond the established powers to control The people on the other hand are right here and at hand just waiting to get squeezed and coddled in equal measure.
Consent from a higher power is completely immaterial. God, or any higher ideal requires popular consent in order to have any legitimacy in the first place. God can, in fact, be anything, so long as enough people agree on what God is. If the established powers control the people, then they control God, regardless of whether God is a transcendental deity who can only be reached through obedience and prayer or an ever-distant Utopia that can only be reached through emancipation and progess.
Human society is full of flaws. My issue is the integration of power at all levels. Instead of putting society into its natural order Liberalism has instead built the monolithic state.
Just because a state is natural doesn't mean that it's desirable. This is even supposing that a "natural order" for society exists. As I see it, a "natural" human society would be little different from a chimpanzee community; stagnant tribalism wherein men exist for the sake of the tribe and women exist to be conquered and bred through rape.
By making sovereign power dependent on the masses, the masses MUST by necessity be controlled by the sovereign power.
So your solution to The State bending over backward to control the people is to give up and allow the people to be controlled by a self-justifying Monarch instead? That is not an upgrade, that's a sidegrade.
In a system with a strong moral and religious framework, the Electors, or the Hereditary King, would be bound by a moral authority that transcends even them and is beyond their power to control. In a Liberal state, morality is simply another restriction on freedom to be overcome.
I think you put too much stock into how subservient people are to morals, especially those in positions of power. Henry VIII shows how a sovereign can reject established morality (the sanctity of marriage in this case) and substitute it with one that suits his agenda.
 
I think you put too much stock into how subservient people are to morals, especially those in positions of power. Henry VIII shows how a sovereign can reject established morality (the sanctity of marriage in this case) and substitute it with one that suits his agenda.

This is pretty much the reason why monarchy sucks and fails. Expecting a single ruler with absolute power to not be abusive is just naive. You might get lucky and have one or two good kings but that streak never lasts very long. There is also the problem of succession. For all of its other flaws, it seems indisputably true that liberal political systems facilitate more stable transfers of power.

The only thing that will ultimately check those in power from being cunts is other people with power who will hit them for it. Thus the necessity of political parties, opposing factions, etc. You can do away with the liberal fallacy that everyone is the same and still have this. In the past, politics was understood as something for men only, for example, and women were excluded. The big problem is how to re-establish some kind of workable and sensible limits on who gets to participate in politics. Lots of people need to be excluded for various reasons, but there is no easy or apparent way to move to a system which properly excludes them.

Saying that we just need to bring back monarchy is a lazy cop-out and a terrible idea. I get the appeal, and I think it's possible that you could have a single exceptional individual who seizes power and fixes a lot of things, while they are alive. You can see this with some of the better Roman emperors. The problem is what happens after that person is gone? You're not going to keep getting a good emperor every time.
 
TLDR

Is this another Alt Right faggot arguing that because Leftists want to put Blacks and gays in their goyslop we should throw out the last three hundred years of human development (all of human development, pretty much) and become slaves to an inbred king and a closeted faggot pope?
Exactly.
I dislike communists and hate fascists, but I absolutely loath traditionalists.
I am a goddam red-blooded American, and I refuse to bow down before any kind of inbred gilded niggerfaggot whose claim to rule is 'God said so'. All of OP's criticisms of liberalism are invalidated by him being a cock-hungry faggot who wants to kneel before some foreign fop and his band of warlord cronies. That's Africa politics shit.
The commies didn't kill enough of these fuckers.
 
its also important to note that the King isn't necessarily supposed to be the most capable. He's supposed to embody the State in his person. History is full of Kings who left most of the running of the country to advisors and senior ministers. This is why I'm not a fan of absolute monarchies either. I rather like the idea of hybrid systems and constitutional monarchies where the King is bound to certain higher order principles that even he cannot change, with suitable checks on his power.
When you reduce to the monarch to a figurehead instead of his role as a leader of the people (which is why kings existed to begin with in every society), then you get the beginnings of subjects acquiring privileges that undermine the state. For every good minister, there's a lazy minister who got his power because his family background was good and he managed to slander the right people.

Absolute monarchy was the only form of monarchy that ever worked. That's why the most successful monarchies, wherever they were from, believed in the idea of the monarch's absolute power rather than the medieval European conception of the nobility and church having certain inherent rights (which itself goes back to Germanic tribal law). The end result of the latter was nothing but endless feudal wars, states incapable of anything, and yes, the beginning of liberalism thanks to the most extreme application of these rights like in England (Magna Carta), Italy (all the communes), and Poland (all the privileges the Jagiellonians granted). Once you mate the idea of these rights with the philosophy of nominalism, you get liberalism. Yes, England came to conquer the world and started the Industrial Revolution, but England was favored by geography and luck and was playing on easymodo.

I think you're adopting liberal ideas without knowing it when you imagine "suitable checks" on the power of the king, because that's something innately tied to the development of liberalism. Unless you imagine it from an extreme clericalist standpoint (of the sort that was politically dead by the 1300s thanks to the Avignon Papacy and permanently killed by the Western Schism), where the Pope takes an active role in the politics of all Christian nations.
The President is still elected by the people. Originally indirectly, and then later directly. The big difference between a King and a President is that a King ascends to power through mechanism that do not even consider popular consent. His authority is derived from heaven, not from the people. So an example of a "Hybrid" system would be a Hereditary Monarchy with a coequal branch of elected representatives. Though there could also be a step removed from Hereditary Monarchy as well. Perhaps an upper house made up of Landed Nobles who elect among themselves the King, much like how the Holy Roman Empire functioned at least in principle if not function. Good example of this today would be the Vatican City.
Elective monarchy is literally the worst political system in all of existance. It has failed every single time at producing a coherent state, for the exact same reasons why democracy fails. Why would you, the high noble permitted to be an elector, vote for a ruler who seems capable? You want to make that ruler promise you all sorts of things and win your vote. Ergo the end result was always feudal anarchy and a non-functional government because the central government had to give all sorts of shit away and engage in nepotism to get elected (sound familiar?). Anglo-Saxon England was a shitfest. Medieval Hungary was a shitfest. The Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth was a shitfest. Medieval Scandinavia was a shitfest (and never united because of electoral monarchy) that when it finally unfucked itself in the 1600s by mass executions of nobles and clergy unsurprisingly became a powerhouse (both Denmark and especially Sweden). The Holy Roman Empire was a shitfest until the Emperor decided to not bother trying to make a coherent country anymore because he already had a kingdom for himself.
No, I think its going to give way to unenlightened corporate syndicalism like what @Save the Loli is arguing for. This is because everyone is stuck in this Liberal paradigm of thinking where they assume that the solution to todays problems is more of the stuff that is poisoning the well.
Liberalism didn't poison the well so much as the well was already poisoned. The rise of cities and wealthy peasants absolutely confounded traditionalism as early as the 1300s (the aforementioned Count of Flanders fleeing like a bitch to his masters in France), and that would inevitably lead to the gradual disintegration of this traditionalism which can only work under feudalism. Land ownership is not the basis for wealth in the present, not because of Jewish conspiracies but because there's businesses beside being a landlord. Thus you need to implement a meritocratic system so successful men can advance and aid the state and thus enlightened absolutism, as the monarchs of Europe did (and to a degree the Tokugawa Shogunate which also dealt with this problem as land ownership became less important).

There's also the fact that nations exist, which medieval Europe hardly recognized, and thus a national character exists. So you really only have three options--feudalism, liberalism, or post-liberalism, because those are the systems that have been part of European culture since the late Roman Empire, and European culture is ultimately defined by its inheritance of Greco-Roman culture as mediated by the influence of Germanic law. You can't wholesale impose some sort of Asian despotism on European cultures no more than liberalism works in Asia. You can borrow influences, sure, but not a whole ideology (as recognized by people like Sun Yat-sen and Lee Kuan Yew and the modern CCP after the utter disaster of Maoism). So that's why you need to rebuild tradition instead of simply copy it, and that's where national syndicalism excels at it, particularly if we add successful elements from other cultures like a Confucian view on governance and morality much as modern Asian traditionalists believe in borrowing elements from post-liberalism.
I dislike communists and hate fascists, but I absolutely loath traditionalists.
I am a goddam red-blooded American, and I refuse to bow down before any kind of inbred gilded niggerfaggot whose claim to rule is 'God said so'. All of OP's criticisms of liberalism are invalidated by him being a cock-hungry faggot who wants to kneel before some foreign fop and his band of warlord cronies. That's Africa politics shit.
The commies didn't kill enough of these fuckers.
One of the best takes on traditionalism I've ever read, and among the big redpills for me regarding democracy and liberalism was an old text by a Tsarist reactionary minister named K.P. Pobedonostsev. He writes a very impassioned defense of Tsarist monarchism in Russia. The gist of it is that it's within the Russian national character, and he's more or less correct even if it was proven that the absolute figure need not be a Tsar. Pobedonostsev mentions the US a lot, and says that American national character (derived from English and Scottish character) is different so doesn't recommend absolutism.

I gotta thank my college professor for assigning me that book--imagine taking a class from an obviously leftist professor, coming in as a leftist, and leaving as not a leftist! Here's the link since it's free.
 
Instead he formed a Totalitarian state formed around the ideals that were a blend of Hegelian thought and Social Darwinism.
the nazis were less totalitarian than people thought. most nazis were alive during the german revolution of 1918 and were acutely sensitive to public perception and the need to placate the masses. for example, the wartime economy had not shifted to total war production until well into 1944 because they were afraid of what happened in the endgame of WWI where the people turned on the kaiser and the regime.

additionally, while the germans did commit a large-scale genocide of jews, there were two notable carveouts that the nazis relented on due to public pressure. jewish spouses of germans were given a reprieve due to popular outrage and protests, as well as jewish world war I veterans.

unlike the USSR where the state subordinated industry to the needs of the wartime state, the privately held german MIC dictated production based on what was profitable to the wehrmacht and other branches and not the other way around.

to explain the german aquiescience to hitler and his regime in the postwar period, they first used the excuse that hitler "hypnotized" germany. as discussion of the holocaust got more acceptable over time, the germans moved on to the excuse that hitler was a tyrant and ran things with an iron fist. in reality, hitler and the nazis had the popular support of the german people until the war started going south for them.
 
The closest thing to Republican Rome that has ever existed in the modern day was the Confederate States.

Mussolini was a typical tinpot dictator.

From what I know of the bible, the belief that all men are equal isn't just a liberal invention. A king's or a noble's or a wealthy merchant's earthly authority is worthless before God's own, so this cope about individuals being appointed by the lord to rule over men is frankly unchristian. Now this doesn't matter if you're the secular type but @mindlessobserver clearly isn't, so it strikes me as contradictory. How can you follow God's Plan™ while also acting in God's stead?
This spiel also seems to labor under the idea that society having an invisible enemy was invented by liberalism, as was any kind of upward movement in society. As if before the englightenment everyone stuck to their own little caste boxes and lived in harmony, free from corruption, strife, ignorance, and sin. What a crock of shit.
I don’t know where you stand on all this, but as I see it, Christianity went down the tubes the moment the State - the Roman Empire - got involved, because they corrupted it, perverted it, turned it into propaganda that had nothing to do with God. And Constantine, the man that dreamed this up, was an evil man and it shows in his work.
 
for example, the wartime economy had not shifted to total war production until well into 1944 because they were afraid of what happened in the endgame of WWI where the people turned on the kaiser and the regime.
to explain the german aquiescience to hitler and his regime in the postwar period, they first used the excuse that hitler "hypnotized" germany. as discussion of the holocaust got more acceptable over time, the germans moved on to the excuse that hitler was a tyrant and ran things with an iron fist. in reality, hitler and the nazis had the popular support of the german people until the war started going south for them.

No. The economy was already being prepared to war since the early days of the NS regime because it's long-term survival without compromises for it's central ideological goals needed it, Hitler was very honest about it in speeches before 1933 then secretly (in the Hossbach Memorandum as an example)
The bloated military spending before the war, "sacrifices" such as reducing quality of goods such as clothing to avoid rationing while sustaining the re-armament, during the beginning of the war a ruthless move to increase production of armaments without regard for the long-term future of the economy and forcing "subhuman" populations to work inside Germany itself shows that while the Nazis really kept an eye on public opinion, they were already throwing everything on the war since the beginning because not only the regime needed it ideologically, but because of Germany's notable material and industrial inferiority compared to it's opponents.
Besides, unlike the Soviet Union, there was not an armed revolt that put the national socialists in power, and Hitler had to play the long game with influencial social groups that would otherwise be against the regime.
While support for the Nazis was high, it was not exactly universal, with peasants complaining about regulations, small business owners secretly circumventing their draconian laws and the enthusiasm for war already being low during 1939.
 
The established Aristocracy viewed the Noveau Riche with deep suspicion because their wealth was not "of the land". It came from trade. Which meant they didn't truly have any loyalty to the country or its people. A French Banker can do business wherever he wanted too. The Duke of Anjou on the other hand could only do business IN ANJOU. If shit hit the fan, the Banker would flee, but the Duke would stay and defend his land.
The difference between Noveau Riche and The Establishment is two generations. The rich merchants bought noble titles and the dukes all liked playing merchant prince anyway, they just sucked at it.
In reality the Duke of Anjou spend more time in Paris than Anjou and wasted his subjects money playing games of chance and trying to install his sister as the kings lover, while all the actual labor in Anjou was left with non-nobles and lesser relatives. And if war actually came to Anjou he would evacuate his family to Paris and tell his subjects and lesser relatives to defend, to the last man, his wonderful homeland of Anjou while he suffered in loathsome exile by stuffing his face with truffles into gout.
 
I am glad to see OP has become Cromwell-pilled, disappointing nobody has brought up the Anglo traditions of rights as a granted privilege contrasted to the continental notions of liberty assigned to all though.
Leviathan.jpg

Hobbes was right and always has been, the headless chickens will agree with you they'll just never admit it as to do so is heresy.
 
I don’t know where you stand on all this, but as I see it, Christianity went down the tubes the moment the State - the Roman Empire - got involved, because they corrupted it, perverted it, turned it into propaganda that had nothing to do with God. And Constantine, the man that dreamed this up, was an evil man and it shows in his work.

Constantine and the Christian church worked hand in glove together, with Constantine learning about the faith directly from its most prominent figures at the time such as Lactantius. The Christians sainted him for this and there's no telling how much smaller the religion would be today, or if it would even survive at all, if Constantine had gone in the other direction. What exactly about him was so terrible and evil?
 
Technology went from primitive cars to moon landings in under a century. Liberalism and communism accomplished more in decades than those inbred parasites accomplished in thousands of years.
I don’t know where you stand on all this, but as I see it, Christianity went down the tubes the moment the State - the Roman Empire - got involved, because they corrupted it, perverted it, turned it into propaganda that had nothing to do with God. And Constantine, the man that dreamed this up, was an evil man and it shows in his work.
They're also ignoring God Himself denounces human monarchism as an inherently tyrannical system contrary to His will.
1 Samuel 8 said:
When Samuel grew old, he appointed his sons as Israel’s leaders. 2 The name of his firstborn was Joel and the name of his second was Abijah, and they served at Beersheba. 3 But his sons did not follow his ways. They turned aside after dishonest gain and accepted bribes and perverted justice.
4 Then all the elders of Israel gathered together and came to Samuel at Ramah, 5 and said to him, “Look, you are old, and your sons do not walk in your ways. Now make us a king to judge us like all the nations.”

6 But the thing displeased Samuel when they said, “Give us a king to judge us.” So Samuel prayed to the Lord. 7 And the Lord said to Samuel, “Heed the voice of the people in all that they say to you; for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected Me, that I should not reign over them. 8 According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt, even to this day—with which they have forsaken Me and served other gods—so they are doing to you also. 9 Now therefore, heed their voice. However, you shall solemnly forewarn them, and show them the behavior of the king who will reign over them.”

10 So Samuel told all the words of the Lord to the people who asked him for a king. 11 And he said, “This will be the behavior of the king who will reign over you: He will take your sons and appoint them for his own chariots and to be his horsemen, and some will run before his chariots. 12 He will appoint captains over his thousands and captains over his fifties, will set some to plow his ground and reap his harvest, and some to make his weapons of war and equipment for his chariots. 13 He will take your daughters to be perfumers, cooks, and bakers. 14 And he will take the best of your fields, your vineyards, and your olive groves, and give them to his servants. 15 He will take a tenth of your grain and your vintage, and give it to his officers and servants. 16 And he will take your male servants, your female servants, your finest [a]young men, and your donkeys, and put them to his work. 17 He will take a tenth of your sheep. And you will be his servants. 18 And you will cry out in that day because of your king whom you have chosen for yourselves, and the Lord will not hear you in that day.”

19 Nevertheless the people refused to obey the voice of Samuel; and they said, “No, but we will have a king over us, 20 that we also may be like all the nations, and that our king may judge us and go out before us and fight our battles.”

21 And Samuel heard all the words of the people, and he repeated them in the hearing of the Lord. 22 So the Lord said to Samuel, “Heed their voice, and make them a king.”

And Samuel said to the men of Israel, “Every man go to his city.”
They also tend to be pretty racist despite Paul explicitly stating all are one in Christ. Most tradfags are Papist and thus have likely never read the Bible. The Romish clergy has openly boasted that the Pope's word > God's word, the Pope is Christ clothed in human flesh, that even God obey Mary's word, that they have the divine right to oversee all governments and persecute dissenters, etc. The seculars are right about the RCC massacring and torturing innocent but they were persecuting Christians, not the nonexistent witches and atheists.
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Hobbes was right and always has been, the headless chickens will agree with you they'll just never admit it as to do so is heresy.
Hobbes was only half right. Nobody is fit to be master.
Constantine and the Christian church worked hand in glove together, with Constantine learning about the faith directly from its most prominent figures at the time such as Lactantius. The Christians sainted him for this and there's no telling how much smaller the religion would be today, or if it would even survive at all, if Constantine had gone in the other direction. What exactly about him was so terrible and evil?
He was responsible for paganism subverting organized Christianity. All the evil shit the Romish church has done and continues to do can be traced back to him.
there's no telling how much smaller the religion would be today, or if it would even survive at all
What are you talking about? Christianity always thrives when and where its adherents are persecuted. Even the pagan Romans bemoaned that the blood of martyrs is seed.
 
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Hobbes was only half right. Nobody is fit to be master.
Sure there is. Some people are truly fit to lead and command the people. The problem only comes when they die. Any organization is only as good as its ability to discover and raise up talent, and the modern West is collapsing because we believe that task should be done by neurotic women in so-called "HR departments".
He was responsible for paganism subverting organized Christianity. All the evil shit the Romish church has done and continues to do can be traced back to him.
Constantine is the only reason Christianity is a global faith and not just a bunch of communities of urbanites continuously whining about how persecuted they are like (((the tribe))). Barely anybody in Europe or anywhere else would've followed the Jew God and a dead rabbi who claimed to be his son if it weren't for the fact the government was favoring it and then later the government fused with the church (Pope is Pontifex Maximus like the Emperor, the church is divided into dioceses, just like the late Roman Empire, etc.).

That's why Christians were always paranoid about their faith being snuffed out like the Donatists who thought everyone who didn't endure the persecution were perma-apostates, or why Julian the Apostate was so hated since he explicitly set up a pagan religious system intended to subvert Christianity (plus gave concessions to the Jews also intended to subvert Christians). John Chrysostom really hated Jews because they were a competitor religion and Christians would apostasize to them, and it's obvious in some places like Arabia and North Africa there was little functional difference between Jews and Christians in that era since the communities were fluid. Hell, there's no evidence they ever had more than 10% of the Roman Empire following them before Consntantine.
 
So that's why you need to rebuild tradition instead of simply copy it, and that's where national syndicalism excels at it, particularly if we add successful elements from other cultures like a Confucian view on governance and morality much as modern Asian traditionalists believe in borrowing elements from post-liberalism.
How can rule of the Corporations, whether or not those corporations are held in common by their employees, lead to a fundamental possession of the land? I think this is the issue I am having here. There is a disconnect between possession of the land on which a people live, and the people who live on it. The current modern conceit is that the land is simply an asset, and the people are simply an input. Syndicalism doesn't just entertain this conceit, it is the very definition of it. Sure, it sounds good on paper to say that that "private" communes (corporations) can replace the functioning of the State itself, but I don't buy it.

Even today, you don't see the Swedes saying they salute the CEO's of Volvo and Ikea over the literal King of Sweden. Even though the King of Sweden is literally a stuffed marionet that gets trotted out on Christmas. If push came to shove, and the CEO of Volvo was handed a gun, and the King of Sweden was handed a gun, and all the Swedes got to vote on which Gun got the one bullet that would be used in a hypothetical duel to the death, would they vote for the CEO of Volvo to get the bullet, or the King? How would the CEO of Volvo's own Employees vote? Would a majority of that one demographic even vote for him?

There is something more here I think. Something way beyond just "aptitude" and "resources". If these were the only things we as a species cared about, there would be no more Kings at all. Yet their clearly are. Even in what could be argued to be the most progressive and "liberated" countries in the world.

Technology went from primitive cars to moon landings in under a century. Liberalism and communism accomplished more in decades than those inbred parasites accomplished in thousands of years.
This is a fallacy of logic. The academic systems and disciplines were not related to the government forms. Many of the great breakthroughs of science and mathematics occurred under the absolute monarchies of Europe, and not the enlightened liberal democracies. Hell, much of our entire understanding of Black Holes relies on Schwarzschild and Chandrashekar, both of whom did not come from what we would charitably call "liberal" countries.

Liberalism didn't poison the well so much as the well was already poisoned. The rise of cities and wealthy peasants absolutely confounded traditionalism as early as the 1300s (the aforementioned Count of Flanders fleeing like a bitch to his masters in France), and that would inevitably lead to the gradual disintegration of this traditionalism which can only work under feudalism. Land ownership is not the basis for wealth in the present, not because of Jewish conspiracies but because there's businesses beside being a landlord. Thus you need to implement a meritocratic system so successful men can advance and aid the state and thus enlightened absolutism, as the monarchs of Europe did (and to a degree the Tokugawa Shogunate which also dealt with this problem as land ownership became less important).
Yet the only alternatives that seem to be on offer are more perverted forms of liberalism. Fasicsm, Syndicalism or Socialism. The Liberal Democracies at least managed to square this circle by ingratiating the wealthy peasants into the system by creating a system where money=vote buying and patronage in the unelected beaurocracy. It doesn't so much solve the problem of Liberalism as it does incorporate it into an already corrupt system. Meaning the flaws in Liberal political theory get to run wild without any correction at all.
 
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