Are visual novels as a genre doomed to be just bait for coomers? - Why wouldn't you just read a book if you want a good story?

I'm Retarded? said:
what's the point of anime if it doesn't make you cum
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Get you into cardboard crack.
XL xQgg?QcQCaTYDMjqoDnYpG said:
Unless you restrict "visual novels as a genre" to the point that there must be no gameplay that goes beyond the scope of a visual novel, there's at the very least Ace Attorney and Zero Escape for non-pornographic and great series of visual novels
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I was having the exact same conversation with a friend, and you have a good point, I think most people see those as more of a puzzle game than a VN, but you are absolutely correct.
Mr.Miyagi said:
You can write a good story, then use the visual component to help deliver it in a way that a novel can't, while also allowing the player to make choices and decisions that affect the narrative, also like a novel can't (outside of CYOA books, but we're not really talking about those.)
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Fair point, perhaps the overwhelming mediocrity that's pervasive has warped perception of the genre.
BananaSplit² said:
There are already many non-porn visual novels (aka adventure games in Japan or ADV) especially on consoles, but the genre remains essentially restricted to the Japanese language so people in the western sphere are unsurprisingly unaware of them. To name a few from my own experience:
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Those are cool, especially the touristy ones.
 

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CHARizard said:
Isnt Steins Gate a VN and one of the most popular ones of all time?
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Stein's Gate is a fetish game where you pick a waifu. One of them is a troon that you troon out and impregnate. A substantial portion of the game is set in a furry breastaurant staffed by teenagers, one of whom is a retard incapable of consenting (characters get off on tricking her into doing sexual stuff, this is supposed to be haha funny, no one defends her). There's lesbian (as in porn genre) shower scenes, too. Despite the arc title of "Science adventure", there isn't a single scientific fact it gets right or a faux-scientific syllogism it gets correct. I don't see how it is a counterexample, it fails as soyence, it fails as suspense/mystery, the only draw is fetish shit.

Fuck E;R, what a slimy faggot. I don't trust a single youtube reviewer now and wish prostate cancer on all of them.
 
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COME ON OUT YOU RAPIST said:
Snoot Game was pretty good. It has two raunchy CGs but you can turn those off and not lose anything narratively.
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They aren't even that lewd, and both are just momentary fantasies by the main characters.

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There seemed to be another one added in a later update that's a bit suggestive and can also be turned off.

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Safir said:
Stein's Gate is a fetish game where you pick a waifu. One of them is a troon that you troon out and impregnate. A substantial portion of the game is set in a furry breastaurant staffed by teenagers, one of whom is a retard incapable of consenting (characters get off on tricking her into doing sexual stuff, this is supposed to be haha funny, no one defends her). There's lesbian (as in porn genre) shower scenes, too. Despite the arc title of "Science adventure", there isn't a single scientific fact it gets right or a faux-scientific syllogism it gets correct. I don't see how it is a counterexample, it fails as soyence, it fails as suspense/mystery, the only draw is fetish shit.
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holy shit im buying this game right now
 
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Safir said:
Stein's Gate is a fetish game where you pick a waifu. One of them is a troon that you troon out and impregnate. A substantial portion of the game is set in a furry breastaurant staffed by teenagers, one of whom is a retard incapable of consenting (characters get off on tricking her into doing sexual stuff, this is supposed to be haha funny, no one defends her). There's lesbian (as in porn genre) shower scenes, too. Despite the arc title of "Science adventure", there isn't a single scientific fact it gets right or a faux-scientific syllogism it gets correct. I don't see how it is a counterexample, it fails as soyence, it fails as suspense/mystery, the only draw is fetish shit.

Fuck E;R, what a slimy faggot. I don't trust a single youtube reviewer now and wish prostate cancer on all of them.
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Ive only "played" a few hours of it but I dont remember any of this lol. I didnt get very far at all just experiments with a microwave and stuff.
 
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Why just write a book when you can also add visuals and audio to the experience?
"Wouldn't you just watch a show if you want audio and visuals too?" The single person that wrote a good story can't make whole animation sequences by himself, the amount of labor is just not reasonable. Not nowadays at least.
But crafting some backgrounds and sprites is reasonable, and there's plenty of resources out there for audio.
Everything is a compromise. For me the appeal of Visual Novels is that it can be a solo or minimal team project.
"Too many voices muddy the message."
 
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mrs thickness said:
why are we STILL fucking pretending that literature as a medium, especially now, isn't mostly trashy and low-brow?
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I'm not, I'm just legitimately wondering about the concept. I'm aware of the mountains of written slop that are out there too, and I hate that shit too. People in the thread have given me very good examples for why my initial thought was incorrect.
 
Übertroon said:
The idea of using music and visuals to enhance a literary experience is in theory a good one, but the execution is often just a worse book with some lazy visuals if not just straigth up porn
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I'd agree. IMO it feels like a 2010's niche concept that ultimately if someone has the skill to make, they're probably better off doing something else.
 
"Visual Novel are just coomer bait" was the cope for uppity faggots before they gave up and straight up invaded the genre with such thought provoking ideas as "war is bad" and "gays are oppressed".

Besides the examples already listed, the whole argument stems from the faggot idea that if you appeal to heterosexual men then your work does not have artistic merit.
 
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Keine said:
Umineko would be like half the game it is without the music and the sound effects. Like there's nothing wrong with the writing for the most part but I never realized how fucking hyped I would get reading a VN and then this shit starts playing.

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As far as I'm aware it's considered a sound novel rather than a visual novel in the east because of that. It's just not a term very popular outside of Japan so we just call it a VN.
 
Crypto Six Gorillionaire said:
I enjoyed Katawa Shoujo a decade ago and the sex scenes in there were forgettable if anything.
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You can turn them off if you want. They are just there for coom cred.

A lot of VNs have H scenes to help sell it to ronery NEETs. They are not really necessary unless it's part of the story. Like the H scenes in Sayonara o Oshiete are excessive but they work because MC is fucking schizo and hallucinating the whole story while he's a patient in a mental hospital.

That said, I'd rather not have H scenes. Unfortunately sometimes you just have to click through them if there's no all ages version. Ever 17 is pretty good if you like sci fi disaster stories. I played the translated PSP version and there was only one implied sex scene. But it fades to black before anything happens.
 
Übertroon said:
The idea of using music and visuals to enhance a literary experience is in theory a good one, but the execution is often just a worse book with some lazy visuals if not just straigth up porn
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You see I am a HUGE fan of audiobooks I listen to a lot of long form fiction while I work or am doing stuff - and a good narrator an make or break a story but I've always felt that Audiobooks could really grow as a Genera by adding in more music, sound effects, etc make them more of a Audio Drama kinda deal - The BBC used to do something like this with Radio 4 with Audio Story adaptations they don't do it much any more but I used to love finding the Tape Copies in charity shops as a kid.

I wish I could find it now but someone made a Edit of "The Martian" audiobook (a fantastic audiobook, the only time I realised it wasn't an ensemble cast was with women's voices) and they edited out some parts like when Whatney is breathing heavily after having to do something, or the gurgling of his water purifier in that space suit he used to store it, etc worked really well, they even used that beep sound from the apollo missions at end of transmission.

Don't get me wrong it could be hot or miss and it could be over used but honestly I can see it working.
 
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Part of the entire appeal of VNs was that there were almost no restriction on content, not just in terms of sexual content but in terms of violence, themes, etc. Making an anime will necessarily subject you to the censors for extreme content, as too with most video games. Literature is the closest comparison in which case you have some of the greatest works coexisting with an ocean of mediocrity, but I doubt anyone complains that literature allows you to write extreme smut or the like.
 
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I really liked Famicom Detective Agency.

Still Life is older but good enough. Sengoku Rance doesn't have to be a porno...
 
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