Liz Fong-Jones / Elliot William Fong / @lizthegrey - 'Consent accident' enjoyer, ex-Google employee, nepotistic sex pest, Robert Z'Dar look-alike who wants authority over the Internet

Very concerning that these are the people in control of Signal. And then there's also Daniel Micay, who's the founder & lead dev at GrapheneOS (a privacy/security-focused mobile OS).
Just to underline how insane this exchange was, Daniel Micay was hating on a random Swedish guy (Karl Emil Nikka) and smearing him as a Kiwi Farms supporter because a year ago he dared to agree with Louis Rossmann in a post even I forgot about. And Meredith Whittaker just takes his side without looking into it further.

These people are all friends with each other or at least trust each other's high reputation and I believe it's possible for Daniel Micay and his schitzo RNG to get all of them attacking and destroying whoever he wants. The reason why he hasn't yet? Maybe he doesn't realise he can.

As for the security of Signal and GrapheneOS, I just have to trust that somebody will blow the whistle if there ever truly is something compromising either of them.
 
As for the security of Signal and GrapheneOS, I just have to trust that somebody will blow the whistle if there ever truly is something compromising either of them.
At this point, I just assume if there's anything sus whatsoever about the people who are controlling something, the thing itself is either compromised or will be. Even if it's forked, how do we know there's not some subtle security-breaking vulnerability deliberately introduced? I mean it's open source, so a vulnerability will probably eventually be discovered, but I just am not going to touch anything associated with weird troons and SJW freaks who can't be trusted.

At least to the greatest extent possible. The involvement of these people always degrades something to uselessness eventually.
 
The revelation that Elliot himself is a privileged son of Chinese immigrants gives me what I'd like to call "hysterical indigestion."

It's hysterical because Elliot was quite literally dealt the best fucking opening hand possible as a child born to first-generation immigrants. His mother and father endured unimaginable hardships, they came to America, were successful, had a son, and that son was accepted into motherfucking Google back when working for Google was a bragging right. He had that opening hand, he fucking squandered it on a fucking cock-chop before he ever turned 21, and yet he still managed to make some lucky and successful business ventures that made him independently wealthy. He's been failing upward for well over a decade at this point.

It also gives me severe indigestion because holy fucking shit, this brick-jawed eunuch mongoloid squandered EVERYTHING, even a huge chunk of his personal fortune made after alienating his family, for a fucking fetish and to cover up evidence of his sexual deviancy in the process.

Tangent: There's a Bollywood movie that ruined many a Desi kid's childhood 20+ years ago: Baghban. TLDR for the plot: the sweetest and most diligent possible mother and father endure unimaginable hardships, have children, raise them, and those children come out as greedy, ungrateful bastards. They adopted some random nigga, that nigga was like "whoa, y'all are fucking amazing and your kids are terrible" and the adopted kid is the hero and the blood kids are evil and they get embarrassed and blah blah blah. I bring all of this up to say that what Elliot did is many orders of magnitude worse than this fucking movie that my parents, and the parents of South Asian children growing up abroad, used to guilt us with whenever we misbehaved.

I sincerely hope that Elliot's parents at least have a beloved niece or nephew to pass things along to because Elliot didn't just break the fucking branch... he fucking incinerated it and had the ashes bound to his skin eternally like some troon God of War.
 
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Meredith Whittaker's tweets where she responds to mentions of Liz Fong Jones or directly replies to Elliot.

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Liz mentions Kiwi Farms. He doesn't like the thought of AI using Kiwi Farms content and telling people about his awful behavior.
Speaking of which...

Here's Oxford professor Sandra Wachter, posting on LinkedIn about her paper relevant to this topic. Wachter seems to believe that LLM providers should be doing more to ensure that AI is "telling the truth" and not defaming anyone, or else the providers might face some legal liability.
prof.png llms.png

My new paper with Prof Brent Mittelstadt and Chris Russell "Do LLMs have a legal duty to tell the truth?" We explore if developers need
to reduce hallucinations, inaccurate & harmful outputs or what we term "careless speech"? We show who is liable for GenAI outputs. Oxford Internet Institute, University of Oxford University of Oxford
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4771884 [Archive]
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Careless speech is a new type of harm created by large language models (LLM) that poses cumulative, long-term risks to science, education, and shared social truth in democratic societies. LLMs produce responses that are plausible, helpful, and confident, but that contain factual inaccuracies, misleading references, and biased information. These subtle mistruths are poised to cumulatively degrade and homogenise knowledge over time. This article examines the existence and feasibility of a legal duty for LLM providers to create models that “tell the truth.” We argue that LLM providers should be required to mitigate careless speech and better align their models with truth through open, democratic processes. We define careless speech against “ground truth” in LLMs and related risks including hallucinations, misinformation, and disinformation. We assess the existence of truth-related obligations in EU human rights law and the Artificial Intelligence Act, Digital Services Act, Product Liability Directive, and Artificial Intelligence Liability Directive. Current frameworks contain limited, sector-specific truth duties. Drawing on duties in science and academia, education, archives and libraries, and a German case in which Google was held liable for defamation caused by autocomplete, we propose a pathway to create a legal truth duty for providers of narrow- and general-purpose LLMs.

Keywords: artificial intelligence, generative AI, human rights, European Union, law, ethics, philosophy of science, hallucinations, large language models, truth, democracy, epistemology

And here's Liz Fong-Jones in the replies of the post above. 🤔
https://archive.is/MKg59
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Liz Fong-Jones said:
I'd appreciate having a conversation with you about the poisoning of ML systems with disinformation & defamation; I've previously presented as well to Alice Hutchings's group at Cambridge (https://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2023/11/09/how-hate-sites-evade-the-censor/).

Liz's Cambridge presentation has been discussed before in this thread, but for anyone who missed it:
https://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2023/11/09/how-hate-sites-evade-the-censor/

On Tuesday we had a seminar from Liz Fong-Jones entitled “Reverse engineering hate” about how she, and a dozen colleagues, have been working to take down a hate speech forum called Kiwi Farms. We already published a measurement study of their campaign, which forced the site offline repeatedly in 2022. As a result of that paper, Liz contacted us and this week she told us the inside story.

The forum in question specialises in personal attacks, and many of their targets are transgender. Their tactics include doxxing their victims, trawling their online presence for material that is incriminating or can be misrepresented as such, putting doctored photos online, and making malicious complaints to victims’ employers and landlords. They describe this as “milking people for laughs”. After a transgender activist in Canada was swatted, about a dozen volunteers got together to try to take the site down. They did this by complaining to the site’s service providers and by civil litigation.

This case study is perhaps useful for the UK, where the recent Online Safety Bill empowers Ofcom to do just this – to use injunctions in the civil courts to take down unpleasant websites.

The Kiwi Farms operator has for many months resisted the activists by buying the services required to keep his website up, including his data centre floor space, his transit, his AS, his DNS service and his DDoS protection, through a multitude of changing shell companies. The current takedown mechanisms require a complainant to first contact the site operator; he publishes complaints, so his followers can heap abuse on them. The takedown crew then has to work up a chain of suppliers. Their processes are usually designed to stall complainants, so that getting through to a Tier 1 and getting them to block a link takes weeks rather than days. And this assumes that the takedown crew includes experienced sysadmins who can talk the language of the service providers, to whose technical people they often have direct access; without that, it would take months rather than weeks. The net effect is that it took a dozen volunteers thousands of hours over six months from October 22 to April 23 to get all the Tier 1s to drop KF, and over $100,000 in legal costs. If the bureaucrats at Ofcom are going to do this work for a living, without the skills and access of Liz and her team, it could be harder work than they think.

Liz’s seminar slides are here.
(I particularly like the slides with screenshots of Liz personally bugging people on social media, submitting tickets to service providers, and sending emails to try and deplatform the Kiwi Farms.)

Anyway, I think it's important to point out that Liz Fong-Jones is currently trying to worm his way into the AI censorship debates. He clearly wants to make it illegal for AIs to say anything about his "consent accident" and other instances of terrible behavior.



Totally unrelated, but I thought it was funny:
Liz liked to use a nerdy, made-up language called Lojban when naming his MMO characters [1] [2].
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He had two World of Warcraft characters named Lisri and Listigni, which respectively mean "story" and "hero of the story" in Lojban. He also had a Rift character named Selylisri, which means "subject of the story".
You can Ctrl+F the words here: https://www.lojban.org/publications/draft-dictionary/NORALUJV.txt

It really reminded me of Liz's former right-hand man, Katherine Lorelei, who similarly liked to declare himself a HERO. :lol:
Hopefully Kat returns someday... ✊😔 He's the hero we need, but not the one we deserve (...or however that goes).
 
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Liz Fong Jones said:
3 documented suicides of victims (all trans/NB)
1) Correlation does not equal causation.
2) Julie Terryberry was cisgender. Chloe Sagal was transgender. David Ginder seems to have considered himself cisgender and non-binary at different times. Congratulations Liz, you are as good at basic facts as Ben Collins of The Onion.
3) What else happened in those three people's lives, Liz? What about Julie's abusive older boyfriend? What about the people who threw Chloe Sagal out on the street? What about Japan's mental health care or lack thereof and Mr/Mx Ginder's self-imposed isolation?

Bonus round: cancelled due to risk of PLing where Thwomp is watching and probably putting information into deranged revenge files, but Liz: suicide is not a weapon to use in a slapfight against a web site you are butthurt about, asshole.
 
Listened to another old (2022) podcast episode with Liz Fong-Jones. This one had an interesting/provocative title... but ended up being pretty boring, unfortunately. Lot of "diversity" stuff, tech babble about Honeycomb's business, and ethical complaints about big tech companies.
(I clipped the section about KF - you can find it towards the bottom of this post.)

https://poddtoppen.se/podcast/16202...c4pg/fighting-fascists-in-tech-liz-fong-jones

Fighting Fascists in Tech - Liz Fong Jones​

Welcome to Public Cloud for Public Good, a bi-weekly newsletter and podcast focused on making the world a better place. Whether that’s making peoples lives better, building services in the public & third sectors or thinking about coding more sustainably. This podcast is hosted by Aerin Booth, a Cloud Sustainability Consultant based in the UK.
This week Aaron is joined by Liz Fong Jones, Field CTO at Honeycomb. Honeycomb is a fast analysis tool that reveals the truth about how users experience your code in complex and unpredictable environments. Within seconds, find patterns and outliers across billions of rows of data to definitively solve problems. Liz talks about her career progression at Honeycomb, exactly what it means to be a field CTO, and how we can all work more sustainably. We also touch on transgender rights and transgender people within tech.
Liz’s chosen organisation for our £500 donation is Trans Lifeline (USA) and Mermaids (UK). Trans Lifeline is a grassroots hotline, non-profit organisation offering direct emotional and financial support to trans people in crisis. For the trans community, by the trans community. Mermaids has evolved into one of the UK’s leading LGBTQ+ charities, empowering thousands of people with its secure online communities, local community groups, helpline services, web resources, events and residential weekends. For more information and to support, you can visit both websites below.

https://translifeline.org
https://mermaidsuk.org.uk
Click to expand...

Just a few bits I want to highlight:
  • 13:06 - Liz: "Honeycomb has been a magnet for talent." 🙄
  • 13:35 - He estimates that 10% of Honeycomb employees are trans, 20-30% are queer, and 20-30% are people of color. Also says that they struggled with racial diversity early on, until the company "invested in fixing" this problem.
  • 26:03 - After Liz and the interviewer whine about big tech companies being unethical and needing to do better, Liz suggests that he just needs "a seat at the table" to help fix it.
    • He's said this in other interviews too, and I think it's a common troon infiltration thing. Keep complaining until you get some representation (because the execs are tired of all the bad press and infinite complaints), and then use that as a wedge / foot-in-the-door to eventually win more concessions, get more of your troon buddies hired, etc. This is how troons infest & ruin everything in tech.
  • 27:44 - Kiwi Farmsshout-out. The interviewer thinks that services shouldn't "host hate".
    • 29:18 - Liz talks about how he's been going after Cloudflare and other providers for six years now (which would be since 2016 considering this podcast ep is from 2022).
    • 31:56 - The British interviewer seethes a bit about how Section 230 "absolves accountability or responsibility". Liz agrees that this is a big problem.
    • 34:35 - Liz complains about how Cloudflare "shields" and "subsidizes hate" by servicing websites like the Kiwi Farms.
      • 36:01 - Liz is such a liar, lol. He tries to pretend that his primary concern with Cloudflare is their caching service. As if the Kiwi Farms and other "hate operations" would be too expensive to operate at scale without Cloudflare caches. He knows this is bullshit, but he's using this as a fig-leaf to cover for the real thing he takes issue with: Cloudflare's DDoS protection.
    • 35:13 - Liz says "public pressure and awareness" finally forced Cloudflare to do something. Liz blames KF for swattings and even "restarting the Troubles in Belfast".
      • That second bit is a reference to the weird Irish guy who took a picture outside Keffals' apartment, but he was a Foodist - not a Kiwi. Liz just likes blaming everything on KF without any real evidence.
    • 36:30 - The interviewer brings up DDoS protection. Liz disavows DDoSing as vigilantism and denies doing it himself, but then he says: "That being said... yes, it is true that if you make enemies over a decade long span, some of those people will feel tempted to retaliate. Right? That is something that is kind of your own fault if you make those enemies. That's what I'm gonna say."
    • 37:41 - In response to Cloudflare's argument that they stop DDoS attacks against everyone, Liz makes a weird comparison to a mob of people beating up a victim. He seems to suggest that Cloudflare shouldn't "disarm" the victim (presumably a troon) and prevent them from striking back against the mob (presumably the Kiwi Farms). This sounds like Liz's convoluted way of admitting that he or his fellow troons are DDoSing the Farms, but Cloudflare and other DDoS protection providers should deliberately choose not to stop it. For the sake of leveling the playing field, I guess.
      • 38:25 - The interviewer agrees, saying "It's not a bad thing to punch a Nazi, at the end of the day."
    • 40:33 - Liz and the interviewer seethe about cryptocurrencies enabling people to support websites like the Kiwi Farms.
      • Liz: "Cryptocurrency donations come in, Hate comes out. Hate results in more Crypto donations. That's the flywheel. And if you slow it down, it loses momentum. It stops being able to function."
      • Liz: "My job: Throw as much sand into the gears as I can."
  • 55:29 - Liz and the interviewer briefly mention the importance of Codes of Conduct.
  • 56:09 - Liz shills for Trans Lifeline, because "We're currently in the middle of trans people being under siege."
    • I'm surprised. I thought he mostly stopped supporting TLL after the fraud was definitively proven, but I guess not. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    • Liz also recommends supporting Mermaids and any other trans organization.

Here's the Kiwi Farms / Cloudflare segment:


I had to look up the interviewer after he said he was trans, because he just sounds like a regular British man to me. Here he is:
aerin-1.jpg aerin-2.png
Aerin Booth is a queer and neurodiverse tech founder, start up advisor, podcast host and climate activist. They are on a mission to help developers understand the real world impact of cloud computing, highlight the massive carbon emissions from IT and get people to take more responsibility for being efficient in their coding.

As the former head of Cloud for the UK Home Office they were responsible for cloud strategy for the largest government consumer of cloud services in Europe, they negotiated a contract worth £130m, saved the department over £10m and set up their Cloud Centre of Excellence.

They quit their career in the Civil Service last year due to burnout and anxiety before setting up a consultancy focused on helping companies reduce their carbon emissions in IT and cloud.

Their podcast, Public Cloud for Public Good, is one of the top technology podcasts and covers topics from ethics, diversity and reducing carbon emissions in cloud computing.
 
And of course, there was the time Liz Fong-Jones tried to #MeToo Richard DeVaul (a former Google executive). Funnily, Liz
"Headcrash" is the dude that invented the phrase Consent Accident that Elliot is so fond of.
DeVaul later tried to walk it back and admitted he came up with the term to minimize Date Rape and said he regretted ever coming up with the term.
Interesting how the guy who invented it disavowed it but Elliot decided it was the perfect term to minimize his raping.


Elliot "Liz" Fong Jones is a man leading a double life.
Outside his tech interests, his entire existence is focused on all kinds of deviant sexual behavior and perversion and being a narcissist, Elliot doesn't understand or care about the concept of consent.
That's why he wants us gone.
We're assembling a comprehensive record of all this man's suspect and sometimes illegal activities, and he's a man with a lot of skeletons in his closet, skeletons he doesn't want uncovering more than we already have.
 
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Liz Fong Jones said:
That being said... yes, it is true that if you make enemies over a decade long span, some of those people will feel tempted to retaliate. Right? That is something that is kind of your own fault if you make those enemies. That's what I'm gonna say.
Sit and contemplate your own words, Liz. Shit-talking is free, which is why you're allowed to call everybody on the Farms a nazi. DDoSing and "consent accidents" are not.
 
On this day 5th June 2024, Liz (Zhen) Fong-Jones, Field CTO of Honeycomb.io, contributed a Wikipedia post on how the acronym "LGBTP" should be redirected to the article "conspiracy theory". What a nice and meaningful way to spend your life (and investor money).
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Odd, since googling 2SLGBTQIAP+ brings up a bunch of (mostly Canadian) non-conspiratorial organizations, like the University of Wyoming's 2SLGBTQIAP+ Employee Network (archive), Eastern Sierra Pride (archive), the University of Regina's student housing department (archive), the Canadian Red Cross (archive), etc.
 
On this day 5th June 2024, Liz (Zhen) Fong-Jones, Field CTO of Honeycomb.io, contributed a Wikipedia post on how the acronym "LGBTP" should be redirected to the article "conspiracy theory". What a nice and meaningful way to spend your life (and investor money).
Ironic that he pushes the idea that LGBT grooming is just a conspiracy theory, when he was groomed himself.

I guess he's still going with the cope that the nice man was just helping him discover his authentic self.
 
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