Unschooling - We don't need no education.

[Mars Attacks!]

Spoiler: powerlevel story

I went to a "student-initiated learning school" for a few years, which is basically a place for unschoolers to go hang out and do nothing all day. I ended up there because of behavioral problems in regular school but that's not the point of the story. The unschool philosophy is basically that if kids want to learn, they'll do it on their own, and on the rare occasions where a student actually did want to build a skill of some kind, this place would provide an instructor to teach them on that subject. Problem is kids can't be trusted with their own education because they don't have the reasoning yet to understand why it matters. Hell, in my first year there I pretty much played video games all day. I was 11 and had no one telling me what to do, what do you expect? I came out of it okay, but when I started college I had to start at the absolute bottom on math and English because I didn't know shit.

Let kids have fun and pursue their own interests, sure. But this shit just screws them over when it's time to grow up.

 

[Quijibo69]

Here's a oil salesman talking about his unschooling school for an hour:

These kids need to go to school to find out that life is not all sunshine and lollipops.

 

[Piga Dgrifm]

This thread is a masterpiece: http://www.mothering.com/forum/439-unschooling/1350806-feel-like-ru-has-ruined-my-life.html

 

[Todesfurcht]

(Unpopular Opinion)
Unschooling works in a perfect world where parents would take it seriously.

Upon closely reading the Wikipedia page, kids who are unschooled typically do work study, elective classes (yup), and internships. On top of that they are able to learn at their own pace and experience the world at a much quicker rate than those in schooling.

If anything, that sounds like the ideal method of teaching your kids. It's just a damn shame that a lot of these parents are unable to provide it to the full extent, they're irresponsible and shouldn't be allowed to keep custody of their children.

Also the concern of abuse...States should really intervene on unschooling the same way they intervene with homeschooling. (Aka, house checks, and maybe a written paper every month of what the kids have learned) I am heavily surprised they don't.

 

[Asa_Spades60]

These kids need to go to school to find out that life is not all sunshine and lollipops.

That's probably the only good thing people can say about American public schools (not to condone the bullying/harassment/youth violence issues that crop up in that area).

 

[NG 070]

To give these parents the barest, smallest amount of credit, I can slightly understand where they're coming from (since I assume most of them are from America.) In a lot of districts the American public school system is a complete joke, and a majority of kids usually trash everything they "learn" there anyways.

But to then completely abandon all schooling altogether? You've just moved from one extreme end of the spectrum to the other. Private schools exist, you could move to another district, and sometimes, homeschooling CAN work if you follow a good curriculum and you actually treat it as school (i.e. lesson plans, schedules, field trips, social outings, etc...) but these parents are just.... wow. I think they want to homeschool but are just so horrifically lazy and incompetent they can't follow any sort of curriculum and decide "nah, fuck it, I'll just do nothing."

Yes, I get it, sometimes the American public school system sucks. That's why there are alternatives like private schools or schools in other districts. But holy shit, just quitting school altogether? Have fun when your kid is 16 and barely knows what 2+2 is or how to read. I'll echo what others have said and just agree that this legitimately makes me angry.

Exactly. What most people often don't realize or know, is that there are organizations and networks set up so that the parents have the fire lit under them to actually do the work, plus opportunities for the kids to socialize, participate in sports. To further elaborate on my post a couple pages back, there's a local homeschool organization where they have a tightly run ship and are in accordance with government rules. They even their own sports teams and participate in sports against other schools. Most of the families do end up sending their kids to school for the later years, so that way they can be better prepared for college. Of those, the kids/young adults I've seen from these particular families (half-homeschool/half-public school) have gone on to become nurses, doctors, CPAs, and one even taught English in Japan for a few years.

It's only when you get to these unschooling, "I dun' want the gub'ment to indoctrinate muh kids"-types where things completely break down. I saw more than a few at my previous job, where we'd have families of 5-6 kids come running in during the middle of the day and pretty much run rampant and messing up shit, and some who had no real concept of personal boundaries or an indoor voice.

But yeah, the American school system really sucks, but I think having at least some formal education (whether it be homeschooling through a professional homeschooling academy/organization, parochial, Montessori, private, or public) is better than nothing at all. I mean, shit, even the guy who wrote 'Eragon' had a highly structured homeschool education from what I remember, but it probably helped that his mother used to be a Montessori-style teacher.

Also, unschooling gives me bad flashbacks to 'Hathor the Cow-Goddess'.

 

[MarvinTheParanoidAndroid]

The grand irony is that those reviews essentially boil down into an essay, but with videos on the side. Now, if only there was some kind of place where you could learn to make effective essays.
That said, those kids in the news video might really enjoy being in the moment, but come a decade, are going to realize they got the short end of the stick. That girl-looking-guy seemed pretty illiterate in all honesty, if the reporter had pushed them a little bit further, I think the truth about the whole thing would have been spilled out.

Teenagers define "slacker" and unlike Bill Gates, those kids aren't any exception. Did you get a peek of his bedroom? It's filthtopia in there. You just know he's not passionate about anything that could turn into a career. Those parents are complete shit, did you hear the mom mention that they don't even make their kids brush their fucking teeth? Their teenage son's teeth are completely ravaged by decalcification.

Spoiler: Powerlevel: Judas mode

I once had a dumbass friend who spent most days away from school because of a genetic medical condition and he would often visit medical facilities to undergo testing for fifty bucks. He had aspirations of becoming the next Tony Hawk but never did any skateboarding. He lived like that with all his junk on the floor and never took care of himself. I would find out years later that he never tried to become the pseudo-athlete he dreamed of being and ended up becoming a regular at anime conventions. To this day, he still lives with his parents and his only marketable skill is being a human guinea pig.

That's probably the only good thing people can say about American public schools (not to condone the bullying/harassment/youth violence issues that crop up in that area).

I don't think he was talking about bullying.

 

[nacklstheplatypus]

... how is this even legal?!?

 

[GolgoXIII]

... how is this even legal?!?

I can't answer that, but i'll try.

I guess it's because using the law to force kids into going to school sounds just as bad or worse as a parent choosing not to provide their child an adequate education. Plus, occasionally a child does become a huge success in a niche field that he doesn't need a conventional education to get into, and ends up being used as an example of how it could be successful. Like Bill Gates, or the current crop of YouTube personalities who started early (Darksydephil, Gamelife, etc.)

 

[Lalala]

Denying a child that will result in a near feral total sperg, incapable of being assimilated into society (although I bet their hipster parents would consider this a good thing), and thus incapable of being a productive member of society. Essentially they end up as wastes of space on welfare, missing out on most of what makes life fulfilling.

This is something a lot of parents take issue with actually, they believe school is for learning specific subjects and if you even hint to the fact that it teaches children values like respecting authority, following instruction or work skills they flip their shit and accuse you of brainwashing their babies, it's almost like schools aren't meant to be preparing their children for the challenges of adulthood or something.

 

[Jewelsmakerguy]

Isn't it common practice these days that School standards go down and down and down so that students will pass more easily?

Yeah, I remember flying pass my school years (though Canada's schooling system, at least when I was in it, is probably different than America's).

But there's a difference between some effort versus no effort.

 

[MarvinTheParanoidAndroid]

I can't answer that, but i'll try.

I guess it's because using the law to force kids into going to school sounds just as bad or worse as a parent choosing not to provide their child an adequate education. Plus, occasionally a child does become a huge success in a niche field that he doesn't need a conventional education to get into, and ends up being used as an example of how it could be successful. Like Bill Gates, or the current crop of YouTube personalities who started early (Darksydephil, Gamelife, etc.)

The real answer and most succinct version of it is "loopholes".

This is something a lot of parents take issue with actually, they believe school is for learning specific subjects and if you even hint to the fact that it teaches children values like respecting authority, following instruction or work skills they flip their shit and accuse you of brainwashing their babies, it's almost like schools aren't meant to be preparing their children for the challenges of adulthood or something.

 

[HY 140]

unschooling: taking the age old saying "ignorance is bliss" to a whole other level

 

[GolgoXIII]

Yeah, I remember flying pass my school years (though Canada's schooling system, at least when I was in it, is probably different than America's).

But there's a difference between some effort versus no effort.

I went to school in Canada as well, I remember if your grades didn't meet certain standards the next term you would be in a lower-tier class.

So, if you were in grade 10 math at the highest level it would be 10-1, a tier lower is 10-2, and a tier lower (the lowest, to the point where you can pass without much effort but Universities/Colleges won't accept you) would be 10-3/10-4.

Cool thing is, you could move to a higher class by getting good grades in a lower-tier. So, if you got 80s/90s in a lower tier like 10-2, you could get into 11-1 math. I'm not sure how they do it in the states or anywhere else.

I remember being lazy in school, I used to help my friends with 10-1 math (or Pure Math) while being in a lower-tier (Applied Math). So, I was smart enough to get into the highest tier, but too lazy to work for it because I was a kid and didn't know better.

But that's basically why pretty much everyone has a high school diploma unless they drop out. You could potentially get a diploma with all 12-4 classes and graduate with no effort thrown in, but you just have a useless piece of paper because most institutions will request to see a transcript.

 

[Jewelsmakerguy]

I went to school in Canada as well, I remember if your grades didn't meet certain standards the next term you would be in a lower-tier class.

So, if you were in grade 10 math at the highest level it would be 10-1, a tier lower is 10-2, and a tier lower (the lowest, to the point where you can pass without much effort but Universities/Colleges won't accept you) would be 10-3/10-4.

Cool thing is, you could move to a higher class by getting good grades in a lower-tier. So, if you got 80s/90s in a lower tier like 10-2, you could get into 11-1 math. I'm not sure how they do it in the states or anywhere else.

I remember being lazy in school, I used to help my friends with 10-1 math (or Pure Math) while being in a lower-tier (Applied Math). So, I was smart enough to get into the highest tier, but too lazy to work for it because I was a kid and didn't know better.

But that's basically why pretty much everyone has a high school diploma unless they drop out. You could potentially get a diploma with all 12-4 classes and graduate with no effort thrown in, but you just have a useless piece of paper because most institutions will request to see a transcript.

Well where I was, I only had to take it (math) during two years. Not all three.

Point being that while they didn't make you do it all three years (I believe English and Science were the only ones) There was an attempt to teach students something. Can't say I think the same with these parents keeping their kids from learning. Not going to lie, but their behavior reminds me of the parents who film their autistic kids flipping the fuck out. Only somehow worse because they're applying it to non-autistic kids as well.

 

[GolgoXIII]

Well where I was, I only had to take it (math) during two years. Not all three.

Point being that while they didn't make you do it all three years (I believe English and Science were the only ones) There was an attempt to teach students something. Can't say I think the same with these parents keeping their kids from learning. Not going to lie, but their behavior reminds me of the parents who film their autistic kids flipping the fuck out. Only somehow worse because they're applying it to non-autistic kids as well.

I remember that actually, they gave you the option to avoid taking the third year. Although, I do remember that they only gave you the option if you would have the number of credits needed to pass without it. If you wouldn't have the number of credits needed, you would have to take third year math/science and social studies (I think). Like I said earlier, tiers aren't equal, I used to see people in 10-3 brag about how their grades were better than a 10-1 kid. But forgetting that a 60% in 10-1 is basically a 90% in 10-3.

 

[Jewelsmakerguy]

I remember that actually, they gave you the option to avoid taking the third year. Although, I do remember that they only gave you the option if you would have the number of credits needed to pass without it. If you wouldn't have the number of credits needed, you would have to take third year math/science and social studies (I think). Like I said earlier, tiers aren't equal, I used to see people in 10-3 brag about how their grades were better than a 10-1 kid. But forgetting that a 60% in 10-1 is basically a 90% in 10-3.

Yeah, the school I went to was similar, though it lacked the tier system you describe. Only classes I took through all three years were the two mandatory ones and Art.

Unschooling is only good for children that are "aspiring polymaths".

Or "aspiring introverts" as they would most likely end up becoming.

 

[MarvinTheParanoidAndroid]

So, if you were in grade 10 math at the highest level it would be 10-1, a tier lower is 10-2, and a tier lower (the lowest, to the point where you can pass without much effort but Universities/Colleges won't accept you) would be 10-3/10-4.

Cool thing is, you could move to a higher class by getting good grades in a lower-tier. So, if you got 80s/90s in a lower tier like 10-2, you could get into 11-1 math. I'm not sure how they do it in the states or anywhere else.

If you suck shit for a year, you go back and repeat the whole grade, even the parts you didn't fail.

 

[NG 070]

This is something a lot of parents take issue with actually, they believe school is for learning specific subjects and if you even hint to the fact that it teaches children values like respecting authority, following instruction or work skills they flip their shit and accuse you of brainwashing their babies, it's almost like schools aren't meant to be preparing their children for the challenges of adulthood or something.

To add onto that, recently, there was this big row over a huge update to one of the local public school distirct's sexual education curriculum. Bear in mind said program/info is horribly outdated at this point (it was originally drafted in the late 80's/early 90's and hasn't been updated since), but there was this MASSIVE uproar from the Community Moral Guardians over it, some of whom didn't even have kids in this particular public school system. There was tons of misinformation spread about what it would entail and teach. It got so bad, this particular community group was encouraging parents to pull their kids out of this public school system and homeschool them, solely over this issue. Another thing of misinformation? That the state would force homeschool families to use this curriculum or else they'd go to jail, which also turned out to be not true.

The catch? Parents could easily opt out if they wanted to teach their own kids about this stuff, and they wouldn't be penalized. But good luck trying to get this group of wingnuts to realize that.

There are plenty of valid reasons to homeschool your child, in my honest opinion, but solely because of sexual education isn't one of them.

 

[ICametoLurk]

Oh Canada

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...rs-later-preschooler-on-top-of-the-world.html

The Toronto-based couple wanted to let Storm decide in her own time what gender she wanted to identify with. They didn’t want anyone to assume the sex designated by doctors would match the gender their baby would identify with later.

Their eldest child Jazz, 10, explains the difference. “Sex is what is between your legs, and gender is what you think of yourself as a person,” says Jazz. All three of the Stocker-Witterick children were given a choice of gender identity.

In the Stocker-Witterick home, everyone has a say and family decisions can come down to a vote. That was the case last year when the family debated enrolling the children in public school three days a week.

Last August, the family congregated around the dining table, after the kids had drawn up a long list of the pros and cons for going to school.

The age segregation between grades and the sex separation between washrooms were some of the cons they considered. A pro and a con? Spending time away from their siblings. Ultimately the family voted against going to public school, preferring to stay home and unschool for at least one more year.

There are plenty of valid reasons to homeschool your child, in my honest opinion, but solely because of sexual education isn't one of them.

WA has a decent sized homeschooling number and I think it's gonna increase more next year 100% because there is gonna be some Transsexual stuff in the sex education starting next year.