Unschooling - We don't need no education.

[Bugaboo]

http://www.mothering.com/forum/439-unschooling/1284958-almost-8-year-old-not-reading.html

Good advice for getting an 8 year old to finally read

It's almost as if children don't magically learn to read on their own without being taught to do it

 

[Jewelsmakerguy]

http://www.mothering.com/forum/439-unschooling/1284958-almost-8-year-old-not-reading.html

Good advice for getting an 8 year old to finally read

Sad thing is, I found one post that kind of makes sense:

First, a disclaimer, I am not an unschooler.

But, I think I may have something of value to offer. I would drop the "100 easy lessons" bit. I like what everyone else has suggested but would add one more thing. Oral Games. The point of these is to boost phonemic awareness skills. Once phonemic awareness skills are strong, then the child can read when they decide they want to know how. These games can be done in the car and stopped if he isn't in the mood for a car game.

Examples:

The basic Alphabet hunt. My kids love this. Start with A -- who is the first that can find something that begins with the /a/ sound (we do the traditional sound OR the letter--so if they get to F and my non reader comes up with a word that starts with PH but still sounds like /f/ we count it).

Swap outs. Start simple: if I were to change the /c/ (say the sound, not the letter) in cat to a /p/ what would I get. Do this will all sound positions (beginning, middle, last).

Turtle talk: this can be like a secret code. Say a word very slowly (one sound at a time) like you would do to sound out a word. Your son will decipher this by squishing the sounds back together and saying it back to you. Then, reverse positions--he does turtle talk and you decipher. This works both on segmenting and blending skills.

Rhyming games. With younger kids we just see how many rhymes we can make, but if this seems silly to him, play the concentration game. . . when I was a kid we started this by saying "concentration, concentration is the game, keep the rhythm, or you'll be out of the game. . . . such as rhymes. . . such as cat and hat. . . such as mouse/louse ) etc. We used to play with all sorts of topics --countries, presidents, names, etc. My dd and her friend do this game too, but they start it out a bit differently. You aren't allowed to repeat or go off beat.

Also, when you are reading make sure to take time for poetry, rhymes, etc.

If you need more information about phonemic awareness and/or games to reinforce the skills, check out "reading reflex" from the library. It is meant for you, not him.

Amy

It's a shame relatively sane posts like this are bogged down by utter nonsense like letting your child play an RPG.

I think this is because people like unschoolers are very small, albeit vocal, minorities. The majority of people in America are ordinary westerners who have steady jobs, a somewhat decent education (probably still better than in most other countries) and send their kids to a bog standard school. The only thing that sets them apart from most other westerners will be the relative religiosity, which is indeed paradoxical for a developed country, but that's a discussion for another day. Personally, I am not American, but this post here is just my guess. "Outsiders" only hear the stupid shit because the majority of Americans is nothing out of the ordinary. But I will concur that there is a lot of shit you can get away with in America, while some other things won't fly there.

And it's the shit they do tend to get away with that creeps me out more than the stuff they can't/don't.

 

[King Kong... with wings?]

Unfortunately @King Kong... with wings? is right. America's allowed to get away with a lot of stupid things. It astonishes me how they're still a relatively major power at this point.

With our military, we are a hegemony. a moronic one at that

 

[Valkorion]

And it's the shit they do tend to get away with that creeps me out more than the stuff they can't/don't.

Another thing you have to consider is that the American media (the media in other countries are also guilty of this, maybe to a lesser extent, but again, it's not a purely American thing) gives every retard a platform to broadcast their shit into the world. Bonus points if it's a rich retard. They find someone who's exceptional enough and give them their 15 minutes of attention.

One thing I actually admire the U.S. for is their strong valuing of individual freedoms like freedom of expression and the freedom to be what you want. However, shit like this here is the downside to this. The only reason I go on a spergfest to defend the USA here is that I hate generalizations and in my native Germany Americans often fall prey to them, so I feel like having to white knight for them. There is a downside to 99% of things, and no country is perfect.

I also think I'm straying too far off-topic and should knock it off now.

 

[Kikomi]

i just read through the thread.

there has to be some sort of punishment for not sending your kids to school. there are legitimate ways to homeschool kids, such as hiring private tutors and ordering workbooks with curriculum in them, and having your kids learn to develop a schedule, even if they're learning from home. but THIS? jesus fucking christ i can't believe how delusional a parent would have to be to deliberately starve them of an education.

personally i think government or law enforcement intervention should really only be done if necessary. i think this unschooling shit really should be punished. it's child abuse- it's weird to say that considering the harm being done to the child isn't necessary immediately evident. most people think of child abuse as being physical, or extreme mental torment, but this is a whole different kind. it's starving your kid of essential knowledge required to function. shame that this is probably unpunishable because MUH FREEDOM or some shit

 

[nyon]

http://www.mothering.com/forum/439-unschooling/1284958-almost-8-year-old-not-reading.html

Good advice for getting an 8 year old to finally read

Wow, these people suck as teachers. All this asserting how much the read to their kids and how they love it, like they can't quite seem to grasp that those are different concepts. That's like listening to music and expecting to learn an instrument.

 

[AN/ALR56]

why america cant have those laws?:

Spoiler

In Brazil, it is considered a crime, provided for in article 246 of the Criminal Code and occurs when the father, mother or guardian fails to guarantee the primary education of his child. The main purpose of criminalization of conduct is to curb the practice and ensure that every child has the right to education. [2] In Brazil, education is compulsory between the ages of 4 and 17. Parents are responsible for placing children in early childhood education from the age of 4 and for their stay up to 17 (National Education Guidelines and Bases). [3] Article 1634 of the Brazilian Civil Code says that it is the responsibility of the parents, in regard to their minor children, to direct their creation and education. [4] Article 22 of the Statute of the Child and Adolescent (ECA) says that parents have a duty to support, guard and educate their minor children. And article 55 of the Statute of the Child and Adolescent (ECA) says that the parents or guardians have the obligation to enroll their children in the regular network of education.

Also like sovereign citizens brazilian speds have argued homeschooling is legal because of the human rights charter(article 26 claims every parent has the right to choose the form of education it wants to its kids or something like that) and its supralegal status or something stupid like that.

 

[ICametoLurk]

http://www.mothering.com/forum/50-learning-home-beyond/71521-i-can-t-unschool.html

Since leaving school she has forgotten everything she learnt- math is a no no, huge block when it is abstract math, she can't divide on paper, she doesn't know about decimals/fractions etc. She is poor at spelling, doesn't ever use capitals or any grammar and doesn't write any more. She tells me she is stupid because she doesn't 'know math' but doesn't want to try to understand any of it.

This is a 12 year old who left school when she was 8.

Good advice from the mother that created the last thread I posted.

Children can learn a lot from tv and computer games, btw. Take a look at If You Give a Kid a Nintendo and The Many Benefits of Video Games and do go to unschooling.com!

http://www.mothering.com/forum/439-...ur-12-y-o-didn-t-know-how-write-sentence.html

We've unschooled, more or less, for about five years and none of my kids are confident writers. The younger two are probably on par with their age mates, but the oldest (12) - I don't even think knows what a sentence is, or how to write one. When to use caps, punctuation - nada. He is an avid reader, but mostly of manga and gaming manuals. And don't get me started on his handwriting - it probably compares with that of a second grader.

 

[AN/ALR56]

http://www.mothering.com/forum/50-learning-home-beyond/71521-i-can-t-unschool.html


This is a 12 year old who left school when she was 8.

Good advice from the mother that created the last thread I posted.

i cant wait for that kid to be 20 and be working cleaning bathrooms for the rest of her life

 

[ICametoLurk]

i cant wait for that kid to be 20 and be working cleaning bathrooms for the rest of her life

We like to joke that Barb made Chris learn everything by dropping him in front of a TV, these people actually teach their kids by dropping them in front of a TV.

 

[Trilby]

i cant wait for that kid to be 20 and be working cleaning bathrooms for the rest of her life

That's what happens.

 

[Piga Dgrifm]

She asks no questions and has no thirst for knowledge. She doesn't get inspired or want to do any projects at all.

If only there was, like, a place she could go to, where specially trained people will encourage her to find what she's good at, and make learning more fun and interesting.

Ay, but that is little more than a dream.

 

[Bugaboo]

Tbh I don't think video games like Pokemon are bad for kids to learn extra reading skills (such as new words) but they shouldn't be the only reading they do, they have to be taught shit like what a verb is, punctuation and grammar which video games like Pokemon simply cannot teach.
When did Dr Seuss not become an option for children learning how to read? The Cat in the Hat was literally made as an alternative to old timey books that taught children basic reading skills.

 

[Lalala]

Tbh I don't think video games like Pokemon are bad for kids to learn extra reading skills (such as new words) but they shouldn't be the only reading they do, they have to be taught shit like what a verb is, punctuation and grammar which video games like Pokemon simply cannot teach.
When did Dr Seuss not become an option for children learning how to read? The Cat in the Hat was literally made as an alternative to old timey books that taught children basic reading skills.

Judging by experience with nitwits almost on this caliber I can hazard a guess; its a structured, formal form of learning therefore it's bad. A lot of these unschoolers are almost doing it out of spite, they don't believe in the authoritarian teaching method and take issue with their children learning by way of having information fed to them. While this argument isn't without merit they don't provide a suitable alternative to their children and instead expect them to just know what they need to learn so they can explore it themselves. They don't consider fun options like Seuss or Roald Dahl because in their minds all structured education is bad and therefore a child shouldn't learn to read from a book or some shit.

This is part of the reason the curriculum system exists in the first place, if you want to teach them additional skills then good for you but the curriculum is in place to ensure all children who go through the education system at least have a chance to have the same basic foundation of knowledge that they can choose to build upon when they reach further education. The whole 'my child will never need trigonometry or chemistry' argument fails to acknowledge that it's not about what every child needs specifically, its allowing every child to choose later on in life what they want to build on and what they want to leave behind.

http://www.mothering.com/forum/50-learning-home-beyond/71521-i-can-t-unschool.html

Went to the comments section and

Remember that everything she does is learning, including time waisting.

Time waisting. Fuck my soul.

 

[AN/ALR56]

Like any other retarded parenting group this one really seems to have cult like behavior.
if someone went there and called them out on their bullshit they would use ad hominems and false scotsman and lots of red herrings to try to defend their shitty practices.

 

[Lalala]

Like any other exceptional parenting group this one really seems to have cult like behavior.
if someone went there and called them out on their bullshit they would use ad hominems and false scotsman and lots of red herrings to try to defend their shitty practices.

Note that in the previously quoted article the parent said her 12 year old daughter had lost motivation since leaving school, was just hanging around waiting for her friends and had no confidence in her abilities due to not having any deadlines or assignments forcing her to improve. Now note that in the comments below the article that some people would rather jump to the conclusion that this 12 year old is suffering from depression and that the mother should take her to a counselor. Also note that not one person is willing to suggest that maybe unschooling isn't right for this kid and that the mother might benefit from letting her re-try formal education.

These people have their heads so far up their asses that rather than try to pull them out and think outside of their little circlejerk bubble they'd prefer to try and convince you the sky is made of shit.

 

[Scrotus]

They are so weird about the food.

Spoiler: Long/REEEEEEEE

Last night I walked into the middle of a conversation between two moms. The topic: the age old dinner-time struggle. One mom was lamenting about how tired she is of hearing that her kids don’t like what she has prepared. The other mom chimed in, saying that in her house, she simply says the kitchen is closed. She works hard enough making one meal, thank you very much, and she isn’t about to make two or three just to accomodate everyone. It’s a simple choice. Eat what she made, or don’t eat. Either way is fine with her. And she won’t put up with any whining about it, either.

Now, I’m no newcomer to conversations like this. I’ve listened to plenty, and participated in more than a few. But, as a new-ish unschooler, this time I found myself incredulous and aghast.

Spoiler: shut up lady

First, expecting our kids to eat whatever we put before them shows a lack of respect. We are in effect, saying, “Because you are small and physically incapable of preparing your own food safely, your right to eat what you enjoy is forfeit. Because I am the one preparing your food, you will eat what I deem to be nutritous and tasty. When you can make your own food, you can eat what you want. Until then, sit down, shut up, and eat what I tell you to.” Likely that is exactly what we were told as children. But this is incredible hypocrisy when we really stop to examine it.

Yes, yes. From now on I will leave my garbage on the floor for my dog to eat, since that is what he prefers. His instincts to eat trash and cat shit are far superior to a balanced diet. In fact, it is cruel of me to deny him the precious garbage.

Luckily the first commenter on her page was talking some sense and pointing out the flaws in her analogies.

 

[Jan_Hus]

Ah it's a fucking wonder when you have to tutor adult students who were put through this exceptional horseshit as children.

 

[ICametoLurk]

Like any other exceptional parenting group this one really seems to have cult like behavior.
if someone went there and called them out on their bullshit they would use ad hominems and false scotsman and lots of red herrings to try to defend their shitty practices.

It's actually kinda worse than that. There is a thread of someone asking if someone knows an 18 year old that can't do multiplication and the thread has people talking about how they know adults who did public school education and so it's no big deal.

I know MANY adults that can only remember basic math of any type... and some of them even took Calculus.



If you NEVER use it as an adult.... uh you are more than likely to forget most of it.

http://www.mothering.com/forum/50-l...d-unschooler-who-can-t-do-multiplication.html

I cant do multiplication and I went to school through the 12th grade.

lol

 

[Scrotus]

I have seen so many of the most :autism: spelling errors on those forums, all while the author is handing down advice on how someone should ruin their kid's life "educate" their precious snowflake.

Spoiler is how I imagine some of these households operate.

Spoiler: Love Quadrants