Amateur Linux Hour
- Thread starter Betonhaus
- Start date
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2022
This is probably a total noob question but how can I keep a package but permanently remove a package that is hooked as a dependency to it without my package manager shiting the bed and forcing it back whenever I want to update/install anything.
I'm using Debian with Synaptic/Aptitude as my package managers. The package I want to keep is "gargoyle-free" (a text adventure interpreter) and the package I want to purge is "fonts-noto-core". I have come to fucking hate this package which installs about 50,000 useless fonts which make selecting a font in other programs like GIMP and LibreOffice a serious headache.
For now I just use "dpkg --purge --force-all fonts-noto-core" to remove it (Gargoyle doesn't actually need it) but whenever I want to update or add/remove packages I'm forced to reinstall it. I've tried using Aptitude to "keep" Gargoyle and "forbid" the noto shit but it ignores those flags and insists on removing Gargoyle anyway (while Synaptic insists on re-installing the noto shit).
(I've also noticed that with Bookworm, RetroArch now does the same thing with "fonts-noto-extra" even though it also doesn't actually need them.)
I'm using Debian with Synaptic/Aptitude as my package managers. The package I want to keep is "gargoyle-free" (a text adventure interpreter) and the package I want to purge is "fonts-noto-core". I have come to fucking hate this package which installs about 50,000 useless fonts which make selecting a font in other programs like GIMP and LibreOffice a serious headache.
For now I just use "dpkg --purge --force-all fonts-noto-core" to remove it (Gargoyle doesn't actually need it) but whenever I want to update or add/remove packages I'm forced to reinstall it. I've tried using Aptitude to "keep" Gargoyle and "forbid" the noto shit but it ignores those flags and insists on removing Gargoyle anyway (while Synaptic insists on re-installing the noto shit).
(I've also noticed that with Bookworm, RetroArch now does the same thing with "fonts-noto-extra" even though it also doesn't actually need them.)
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2024
I am not super good at it all, but does
Bash:
sudo apt-mark hold <package>
Bash:
sudo apt-mark unhold <package>
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2022
No. That has the same effect as using the "keep" flag in Aptitude. If noto ("no tofu" lol) isn't there it either gets re-installed or Gargoyle gets removed before any other operations can be had.
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2020
Generally, 3 options I can think of:
1. Complain upstream.
2. Recompile Gargoyle without the dependency making sure to use a new version number so it doesn't pull in the old version.
https://wiki.debian.org/BuildingTutorial I think all you'd need is to edit the DEBIAN/control file to remove the dependency before recompiling. But I haven't done that in a while, tons of docs out there on creating deb files
3. Create a fake fonts package that says it provides the package you don't want.
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2022
No. Well, maybe. It's a niche package. It depends on who is upstream and maintaining it. If it is gnome devs or something then forget it. If it is some guy moonlighting out of his basement then he may care.
I've thought of that. Again it's a niche program. That's a lot of work and fuckery that could be undone by a package manager at the first update. Package managers and Debian repos outweigh a niche program with a stupid dependency for me at this point. But...
I've thought about that too but I would rather find a better solution. As I said, other packages (like RetroArch) have started hooking noto fonts too. It's not the packages themselves but noto fonts that are the problem. So far every program that "needs" them just falls back to system fonts and works fine. SO IT DOESN'T NEED THEM. Meanwhile noto is a bloated piece of shit that could be split into localized packages and then be tolerable I guess. Or just fuck off and be an optional install.
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2023
Would it be more manageable if office programs and other programs that used fonts would either let you enable/disable the use of additional font packages like noto in the program, or if they used a method where the noto fonts weren't visible unless you drilled down the menu a little more?
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2022
That would work. It doesn't solve the actual problem though and would demand that every program has to be changed to do an unnecessary work around.
I still don't need 50,000 useless fonts installed just so a program can maybe use one of them, when it doesn't even need to.
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2023
Is this the package?
Soundls like you could email the package maintainer for gargoyle-free and ask politely if he can remove the dependency, he might be fine doing so if you make a good case about it
Soundls like you could email the package maintainer for gargoyle-free and ask politely if he can remove the dependency, he might be fine doing so if you make a good case about it
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2022
That doesn't solve the problem though. I want to keep a package (gargoyle) that doesn't actually NEED a dependency while removing that "dependency", In doing so, make all package managers in the future just forget about it so they shut the fuck up about it.
For now I guess I'll just let things be and "dpkg --purge --force-all fonts-noto-core [or whatever niggerfaggot noto package]" before I need to select a font anywhere.
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2023
how does asking the maintainer of the package to remove an unneeded dependency (or make a stub dependency that only contains the needed font) not solve the problem? if he does it you can just update gargoyle and the dependency is gone?
Or are you not considering any solutions that involve asking nicely?
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2022
WTF are you talking about? I have just been asking questions politely. Can you read? I want to keep a package and permanently ignore a "dependency" that isn't needed. Asking someone to rebuild their package isn't an answer, even if they did it's just whack-a-mole because other packages hook this shit too.
As far as I can tell, nothing actually needs noto fonts, if they aren't there programs will fall back to system fonts. The whole purpose of them I guess is to provide support for extended characters which show up as blocks (aka "tofu chunks") that may not be there in other fonts. It sounds like a good idea...but check it out, count the useless fonts in the noto packages, and get back to me.
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2021
C'mon man. He means asking the maintainer nicely.
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2022
You do need noto’s localised variants even if you never personally use them, the alternative is those characters showing up as blank rectangles on websites. For something niche like Tibetan or Mongolian that’s unlikely to be an issue, but Arabic and Chinese are common enough that you’re going to be annoyed not having a fallback for them. “I can’t read those languages anyway”, sure, but being able to just see “oh, that’s Chinese text” rather than “the fuck is this shit supposed to be” is underrated.
The actual issue is that noto’s localised fonts show up in every single damned font selector ever, and the clutter is absolutely awful. There needs to be a way to fold fonts into each other so you just see “Noto Sans” instead.
The actual issue is that noto’s localised fonts show up in every single damned font selector ever, and the clutter is absolutely awful. There needs to be a way to fold fonts into each other so you just see “Noto Sans” instead.
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2018
Install gentoo and mask the undesirable package or make your own ebuild off of https://gitweb.gentoo.org/repo/gentoo.git/tree/games-engines/gargoyle/gargoyle-2019.1.1.ebuild and remove the dependency
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2022
I agree 100%. Or the localization could be split into smaller packages. Honestly I could give a shit if some website can display it's moon runes properly.
This is a terrible solution (if you can call it that). It's like saying, bro, just use Windows! I have been building my Debian systems for years and have things the way I like them. I don't have any issues with anything except this one fat fucking glutton of a font package that I don't need. The issue is getting more annoying because more packages are adding it as a dependency.
Anyway, I made my own solution: If I am working on something that requires font selection and noto is in the way, I just pull up a terminal and force-purge it with dpkg. Out of sight/out of mind. Otherwise I could care less if it is there.
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2020
You could probably just tell fontconfig to blacklist them with a conf file in your home directory. Well, if you can figure out fontconfig's syntax.
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2022
Interesting idea. I just took a look at it and it could make a nice rainy day project.
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2023
About once a decade, I have the notion to upgrade my graphics to improve the wow-factor of a couple games. I'm there again. Last purchase (almost a decade and a half ago) was a Radeon HD 7770. Between then and now, I've used integrated on Sky Lake i7 and my current Ryzen 5700G, which does just about everything I want.
I probably want AMD because less graphics wrangling, or at least that's what I figure, being comfy with amdgpu. Maybe, though, I can go with nVidia? I don't use discrete graphics often, so I don't know much about this field any more, hence the Amateur Linux thread.
What's the best value in this sector right now? And how much of a headache is it to run on Debian Bookworm/12, which is my daily driver? Not opposed to becoming an nVidiot, but I know less about nVidia than AMD, especially wrt. Lunix.
I probably want AMD because less graphics wrangling, or at least that's what I figure, being comfy with amdgpu. Maybe, though, I can go with nVidia? I don't use discrete graphics often, so I don't know much about this field any more, hence the Amateur Linux thread.
What's the best value in this sector right now? And how much of a headache is it to run on Debian Bookworm/12, which is my daily driver? Not opposed to becoming an nVidiot, but I know less about nVidia than AMD, especially wrt. Lunix.
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2018
Why are fonts in the package managers or even as part of dependencies? I never understood that.