US US Politics General - Discussion of President Biden and other politicians

 

[JustSomeDong]

I need to sleep but I'm just surfin round the net taking in the post-debate spectacle. I do enjoy a good shitshow.

 

[Lokenstien]

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/04/trump-banned-jeffrey-epstein-from-mar-a-lago-for-hitting-on-girl.html

Trump kicking Epstein out of the Lago for hitting on the younger members is actually well known and even aknowledged by those writing hit pieces in the form of books.

"In 2002, Trump told New York magazine, “I’ve known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy.”

“He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side"

Sarah Blaskey, a Miami Herald investigative reporter who co-wrote the book, told her newspaper in an article published Tuesday that according to another Mar-a-Lago member, Trump “kicked Epstein out after Epstein harassed the daughter of a member.”"

“The way this person described it, such an act could irreparably harm the Trump brand, leaving Donald no choice but to remove Epstein,” Blaskey said.

Trump, during a July 21 White House news conference, said that he wished Maxwell “well.”
In a new interview with Axios, Trump defended his kind words for Maxwell, despite reporter Jonathan Swan reminding him that she is charged with crimes related to the alleged sexual exploitation of children. “First of all, I don’t know that,” Trump said, referring to the charges against Maxwell. “But I do know that her friend or boyfriend [Epstein] was either killed or committed suicide in jail,” Trump said “She’s now in jail.”
“Yeah, I wish her well. I’d wish you well, I’d wish a lot of people well,” Trump told Swan.

What a convincing article of innocence. This surely doesn't speak towards damage control rather than actual moral debacle.

That they fell out and trump banned Epstein is public knowledge, though exactly when they fell out is open to debate. It was certainly before 2007. The rest has been discussed multiple times in this thread and others.

The reason trump gets a break on this is because all the evidence indicates he wasn't involved. He never visited the island. The only testimony accusing him of paedophile sex came from an obvious fantasist who only provided stories she claimed other people had told her.

From the one source provided, it seems like Epstein got kicked out because he became too comfortable with hanging around Mar-a-lago's youngest members, not because Epstein ran one of biggest pedophile rings of known history that Trump was taking down. The evidence points towards self preservation, not serious concerns with Epstein's dealings. Notably, his long term accomplice does not come up once in these discussions despite her being the driving force of grooming and Trumps more common contact.

OH MY GOD HE TOOK PICTURES!!

So why is the Epstein list still a secret you dumbfuck?

I haven't seen many people who took that many pictures with a known, unrepentant pedophile and their arguably worse groomer accomplice. In a perfect world, the list would be public and we would be getting proper justice. But the elites hate the commoners and wish for their children to be abused. Why hasn't a main talking point of Trump been exposing that list if he's so innocent? Is he afraid that his own personal flight logs will be forced into the public eye? Can you say for certain that Trump didn't just fly to the island in personal planes too avoid being an obvious guest of Epstein like Clinton was? Trump shuttle existed. It's not like Trump couldn't fly undocumented to where ever he pleases throughout the 80's and 90's; some of Epsteins most active years.

As a side note, heres a few more contextually accurate photos of Trump and pedophiles along with a few new ones I've found.

 

[Desu Mountain]

Suck it Hammill

View attachment 6132737

Mark Hamill suckling on that Biden teat.

 

[Trust Me I Know]

My prediction
1. There will be no more talk of replacing Joe by tomorrow. It's not feasible and Dems will circle the wagons.
2. Talking points will be issued. Trump told dozens and dozens of lies, and Joe was under the weather and he couldn't possibly have responded to all of Trump's lies.
3. The media will report number 2 as fact over and over, and eventually the spin will go from how bad Joe looked to all of Trumps "lies", and how Trump is is still an unhinged, existential threat to Our Democracy™ and even on his deathbed Joe is a better choice than Trump.

 

[Gehenna]

My prediction
1. There will be no more talk of replacing Joe by tomorrow. It's not feasible and Dems will circle the wagons.
2. Talking points will be issued. Trump told dozens and dozens of lies, and Joe was under the weather and he couldn't possibly have responded to all of Trump's lies.
3. The media will report number 2 as fact over and over, and eventually the spin will go from how bad Joe looked to all of Trumps "lies", and how Trump is is still an unhinged, existential threat to Our Democracy™ and even on his deathbed Joe is a better choice than Trump.

And 3 will absolutely not work because plenty of clips will be circulated through official and unofficial means that prove 2 wrong. Though you are right for what they will most likely try.

 

[mlanguishi]

I'm getting as sick of hearing 'lies' all the time. It's meaningless unless you point any out. Just saying 'everything he says' is a lie as well. 'Liar' and 'Lies' has turned into 'threat to Democracy' of twaddle now.

 

[Myrtle the Turtle]

I disagree. It’s impossible to spin this in a positive way. Too many memeable moments are going to spill into Instagram, tiktok and Twitter. Those first 20 minutes are damning. The blank gaze he had when trump was speaking is going to be everywhere.

So far the general public’s reaction is shock based on Twitter, non political reddit subs and random forums I follow. Zoomers are saying America and Biden are cooked. People are shaking their heads and saying it’s dementia patient vs a felon and hate their choices more than ever. There’s zero enthusiasm for Biden.

 

[Trust Me I Know]

And 3 will absolutely not work because plenty of clips will be circulated through official and unofficial means that prove 2 wrong. Though you are right for what they will most likely try.

Oh, I agree. The situation is pretty much unsalvageable. I was speaking in terms of what the Democrats narrative will be.

 

[clipartfan92]

I haven't caught up on the thread yet, has anyone posted this?

Vice President Kamala Harris defends President Biden’s debate performance

 

[Kulee Baba]

"In 2002, Trump told New York magazine, “I’ve known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy.”

“He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side"

Sarah Blaskey, a Miami Herald investigative reporter who co-wrote the book, told her newspaper in an article published Tuesday that according to another Mar-a-Lago member, Trump “kicked Epstein out after Epstein harassed the daughter of a member.”".......

Just my honest opinion, I don't think everyone knew how fucked up Epstein was. I think he was like the devil incarnate and anything you wanted he could get delivered into your bedroom.

"Bill Clinton/Trump goes to Epstein Island they probably just fucked some normal whores. "
"Prince Andrew (DEFINITE PEDOPHILE) goes to Epstein Island, and he gets a child to rape."

I just don't think Trump, Clinton, Bill Gates, etc etc etc were all pdf-files. Like that's a shitload of people on the Epstein list. Everyone is allowed to make their judgement of course. To compare it to drugs lets say my Weed Dealer also sold heroin on the side, that doesn't mean I shoot up heroin or even knew he sold heroin.

 

[World Famous Quasi Payer]

Vice President Kamala Harris defends President Biden’s debate performance

Is that bitch wearing a chain around her neck? Who the hell thought that was a good look?

 

[Breadbassket]

I haven't seen many people who took that many pictures with a known, unrepentant pedophile and their arguably worse groomer accomplice. In a perfect world, the list would be public and we would be getting proper justice. But the elites hate the commoners and wish for their children to be abused. Why hasn't a main talking point of Trump been exposing that list if he's so innocent? Is he afraid that his own personal flight logs will be forced into the public eye? Can you say for certain that Trump didn't just fly to the island in personal planes too avoid being an obvious guest of Epstein like Clinton was? Trump shuttle existed. It's not like Trump couldn't fly undocumented to where ever he pleases throughout the 80's and 90's; some of Epsteins most active years.

Trump and Epstein were at friendly terms at one point and Trump at least by 2002 was at least somewhat aware of Epstein's sexual preferences for "younger women" then they had a falling out a couple years later which apparently had to do with a dispute over real estate. Epstein was banned from Mar-A-Lago and Trump helped Epstein's accusers.

If a true smoking gun existed that showed Trump had anything to do with Epstein's illegal activities people, especially politicians, would love to use that as a way to take down him as soon as it was found yet here we are years after Epstein's death and nothing has surfaced.

An excerpt from the article “He Said Not to Tell Anyone”: How Trump Kept Tabs on Jeffrey Epstein:

Trump isn’t known to have gone on any trips with Epstein, which would have been out of character. “I don’t think Trump would go to someone else’s property or someone else’s island or villa,” Nunberg said. “He doesn’t even play golf at anyone else’s clubs.” But Trump did host Epstein as a guest at Mar-a-Lago, where he appears in photos in 1997 and 2000. Epstein’s personal little black book, which was leaked by an employee in 2009, contained 14 phone numbers for Trump, his wife, Melania, and several people who worked for him.

Speaking to reporters on Tuesday, President Trump dismissed his past appearances with Epstein, describing him as a “fixture in Palm Beach” in those years. “I had a falling out with him a long time ago,” he added, though he declined to elaborate. “I don’t think I’ve spoken to him for 15 years.”

Some excerpts on their relationship from the article Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein partied together. Then an oceanfront Palm Beach mansion came between them:

For the better part of two decades starting in the late 1980s, Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump swam in the same social pool. They were neighbors in Florida. They jetted from LaGuardia to Palm Beach together. They partied at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago Club and dined at Epstein’s Manhattan mansion.

“They knew each other a long time,” said Sam Nunberg, a former Trump aide who said he pressed the candidate about his ties to Epstein in late 2014 as the real estate mogul considered a White House run. “Bottom line, Donald would hang out with Epstein because he was rich.”

Their falling out, Trump said, happened about 15 years ago — several years before Epstein’s conviction on a prostitution solicitation charge.

Trump has not said why their relationship ruptured. “The reason doesn’t make any difference, frankly,” the president said.

Fifteen years ago, the two men squared off over the Palm Beach mansion. Just a few months later, local police began investigating allegations that Epstein was sexually abusing minors. Trump has also said — without providing details — that he at some point banned Epstein from Mar-a-Lago.

Trump and Epstein were more than just neighbors who happened to end up at the same parties. They were two outer-borough New York guys, both with a knack for building their images and making a buck. Both attracted a ton of attention, though Trump worked hard to win notice and Epstein sometimes sought to deflect it. Both won reputations as men who were seen around many beautiful women.

Photographs and videos show Epstein and Trump posing together at the mansion in 1992, 1997 and 2000. The two were also pictured together, with model Ingrid Seynhaeve, in 1997 at a Victoria’s Secret party in New York City.

Around that time, Trump flew at least once, in the late 1990s or 2000, on Epstein’s private plane from Florida to New York, according to Epstein’s brother, Mark, who described the flight in a 2009 deposition.

In an interview last week with The Post, Mark Epstein said Trump flew on the plane “numerous times” but said he was only present for one flight.
“They were good friends,” Mark Epstein said. “I know [Trump] is trying to distance himself, but they were.” He added that Trump used to comp Epstein’s mother and aunt at one of Trump’s Atlantic City casino hotels. When a Post reporter sought further details, Mark Epstein hung up.

But according to Stone, Trump turned down numerous invitations to Epstein’s private island and his Palm Beach home. In a 2016 book, Stone quoted Trump as saying that “The one time I visited [Epstein’s] Palm Beach home, the swimming pool was full of beautiful young girls. ‘How nice,’ I thought, ‘he let the neighborhood kids use his pool.’ ”

It is unclear whether Trump and Epstein were in contact after the house sale. That month, Trump left two messages for Epstein at his home in Palm Beach, according to records obtained by Vice News — the last known interaction between the two men.

It is unclear when Trump learned of allegations that Epstein was preying on teenage girls. In a 2002 interview, he gave no indication of concern, telling New York magazine that Epstein “enjoys his social life.”

“It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side,” Trump said.

On Nov. 28, 2004 — less than two weeks after the mansion auction — Palm Beach police fielded a tip that young women were seen coming and going from Epstein’s home, then-Police Chief Michael Reiter said in a deposition. Reiter declined to comment.

In late 2007, the New York Post reported that Epstein had been barred from visiting Mar-a-Lago, which Epstein at the time denied.

Earlier this month, Garten, the Trump Organization lawyer, said that Trump “banned him from stepping foot on the property.”

Nunberg said that when he quizzed Trump about his relationship with Epstein, Trump told him, “He’s a real creep, I banned him.” Trump told Nunberg that Epstein had recruited a young woman who worked at Mar-a-Lago to give him massages. Nunberg said Trump told him he issued the edict against Epstein years before the police investigation became public.

One of his alleged victims, Virginia Giuffre, has alleged in court documents that when she was a 16-year-old towel girl in Mar-a-Lago’s locker room in 2000, Maxwell “recruited” her to come to Epstein’s Palm Beach place to make money by giving massages.

Giuffre said in a lawsuit against Maxwell that Epstein sexually abused her at his mansions in both Palm Beach and Manhattan. That case was later settled out of court. Epstein and Maxwell have both denied taking part in any sex trafficking.

Trump also appears to have been helpful to Epstein’s accusers.

Brad Edwards, an attorney for some of the alleged victims, said in an interview last year that when he was seeking information from Epstein’s acquaintances in 2009, Trump was “the only person who picked up the phone and said: ‘Let’s just talk. I’ll give you as much time as you want. I’ll tell you what you need to know.’ ”

Edwards declined to say what Trump told him but said he was “very helpful in the information that he gave.”

When Nunberg looked into Trump’s ties with Epstein, he said that Trump’s longtime secretary, Rhona Graff, and others in the Trump Organization all agreed that Trump had made a clear break with Epstein.

“That’s all I needed to know,” Nunberg concluded. “He’d never let somebody else get leverage over him.”

Here are some excerpts from the article Trump banned Jeffrey Epstein from Mar-a-Lago after sex criminal hit on member’s daughter, book claims:

President Donald Trump banned his former friend, the wealthy investor Jeffrey Epstein, from his exclusive Mar-a-Lago Club for hitting on the teenage daughter of another member, a new book says.

The late Epstein’s banishment by Trump from the Palm Beach, Florida, club appears to have occurred months before Epstein pleaded guilty in 2008 to state criminal charges in Florida, which included paying for sexual services from a 14-year-old girl.

But it also seems to have happened more than two years after a state grand jury charged Epstein with soliciting prostitution.

But Epstein’s penchant for young women apparently became an issue for Trump and Mar-a-Lago years later, according to “The Grifter’s Club.”

Sarah Blaskey, a Miami Herald investigative reporter who co-wrote the book, told her newspaper in an article published Tuesday that according to another Mar-a-Lago member, Trump “kicked Epstein out after Epstein harassed the daughter of a member.”

“The way this person described it, such an act could irreparably harm the Trump brand, leaving Donald no choice but to remove Epstein,” Blaskey said.

Epstein months after his banning from Mar-a-Lago began serving what ended up being a 13-month jail term on the Florida state criminal charges.

The Herald, whose groundbreaking stories in late 2017 about the sweetheart nonprosecution deal that federal authorities gave Epstein in 2007 led to his indictment on federal sex trafficking charges last year, also reported that a footnote in the new book says its authors were shown Mar-a-Lago’s membership registry from more than a decade earlier.

The registry revealed that Epstein had been a member.

“The member lists we saw were essentially spreadsheets,” Miami Herald reporter Nicholas Nehamas told his newspaper.

“They listed current members, honorary members and former members. Red cells indicate the closed account details for former members. Most closed accounts are labeled ‘Resigned’ and then the date that the membership ended. Epstein’s account says ‘Account closed 10/07.’”

 

[cantankerous jackalope]

I have to use occam's razor on this - if Trump could be connected to Epstein they would have done it half a decade ago. I can think of no better way to actually get a good portion of republicans to turn on him that to have him be involved in that shit. That's a line too far for many, many voters (although not all, sadly). That would be the silver bullet to use against Trump and they would have used that in 2020. Think of all the insane legal shit they stretched to try and convict him in 2024; think of how desperate they've been to label him a felon. They would much rather get him on actual charges instead of flimsy felons that a good portion of the voting base doesn't believe.

They haven't done it because they can't get him on it. And I have no doubt they have looked at that angle every which way to try and make it happen.

 

[Morethanabitfoolish]

Biden after the debate, "Great rehearsal guys, really thought I nailed it this time. That new fellow you got to play Trump is a feisty one isn't he, I'd hate to be facing him at the debate. Anyway, only three more days to go!"

 

[Trust Me I Know]

I would not be shocked if we see some false flags, or "Sources say Trump said nigger" type leaks over the next week. Democrats are going to be desperate to flush the debate out of the news cycle.

 

[Overly Serious]

I just don't think Trump, Clinton, Bill Gates, etc etc etc were all pdf-files. Like that's a shitload of people on the Epstein list. Everyone is allowed to make their judgement of course. To compare it to drugs lets say my Weed Dealer also sold heroin on the side, that doesn't mean I shoot up heroin or even knew he sold heroin.

I disagree with the analogy because your drug dealer has a different motivation - he wants to get money from you. Epstein wanted to get leverage (on behalf of his Mossad handler Maxwell). He had a vested interest in pushing underage girls on people because that's even more leverage than an affair with an adult. That doesn't mean everybody who went to the island did, I agree with you there. But I think attempts were made. Can be quite planned out as well. I recall someone saying how at a party you'd have various of-age women flirting with you but the one who approached to actually sleep with you was the older-looking but underage one they slipped into the pack. Or if it's someone who think's they untouchable then maybe they don't bother with that and just say "hey, come for the weekend, we have jailbait". Depends who you are, really. But the goal is kompromat.

Back to Trump, though. He was a New York real estate mogul and schmoozing and glad-handing and society photos are part of the culture. I'm sure he says "I know ____, he's a great guy" about everyone. It's just how they talk, like some Scorcese movie. What we do know is that he kicked out Epstein over underage dealings by himself before all this was publically known and also if you read between the lines, warned people in a non-actionable way with his comments about "some of them pretty young". I personally grant Trump benefit of the doubt on this stuff. Trump is a man who wants the alpha female, he wants the supermodel and the gorgeous top-woman on his arm. His whole psychology is very obviously "I want the beauty queen in the expensive dress and I want people to know it", total alpha stuff. He's not the "she's vulnerable and young come to my dungeon" type. Anyway, back the debate discussion, I guess! That's just my thoughts on it.

 

[HTTP Error 404]

My prediction
1. There will be no more talk of replacing Joe by tomorrow. It's not feasible and Dems will circle the wagons.
2. Talking points will be issued. Trump told dozens and dozens of lies, and Joe was under the weather and he couldn't possibly have responded to all of Trump's lies.
3. The media will report number 2 as fact over and over, and eventually the spin will go from how bad Joe looked to all of Trumps "lies", and how Trump is is still an unhinged, existential threat to Our Democracy™ and even on his deathbed Joe is a better choice than Trump.

A few friends with TDS already kinda switched into that. "Joe didn't do great but Trump couldn't answer a single question, he kept rambling about other random stuff and avoiding questions."

But at the same time, they were openly horrified at how bad Joe did. I genuinely think they didn't realize how bad he was until that very moment. They had categorized the "Biden has dementia" as "misinfo" from the "bad guys" and just auto-rejected it... until they couldn't ignore it anymore.

 

[Mike Matei's Penis]

View attachment 6133038
Mark Hamill suckling on that Biden teat.

 

[Lammy]

"In 2002, Trump told New York magazine, “I’ve known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy.”

“He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side"

I think this mostly sounds like "billionaires rubbing shoulders with other billionaires".
The comment that "and many of them are on the younger side" sounds like a side remark that he knew, but I think he might not have wanted to try to expose the guy out of fear of being suicided (given Epstein's apparent connection to many rich and powerful clients like Clinton or Gates for example).

Sarah Blaskey, a Miami Herald investigative reporter who co-wrote the book, told her newspaper in an article published Tuesday that according to another Mar-a-Lago member, Trump “kicked Epstein out after Epstein harassed the daughter of a member.”"

“The way this person described it, such an act could irreparably harm the Trump brand, leaving Donald no choice but to remove Epstein,” Blaskey said.

Presuming my prior thoughts that he knew but didn't want to risk himself, it sounds like he tried to do what he could of keeping the guy away from what he had control of. It being solely in interest of protecting a "brand" is the opinion from a journalist in 2020; an opinion I would take with a grain of salt in the context of it being about a topic (Trump) that was and is sensationalized in journalism.

Trump, during a July 21 White House news conference, said that he wished Maxwell “well.”
In a new interview with Axios, Trump defended his kind words for Maxwell, despite reporter Jonathan Swan reminding him that she is charged with crimes related to the alleged sexual exploitation of children. “First of all, I don’t know that,” Trump said, referring to the charges against Maxwell. “But I do know that her friend or boyfriend [Epstein] was either killed or committed suicide in jail,” Trump said “She’s now in jail.”
“Yeah, I wish her well. I’d wish you well, I’d wish a lot of people well,” Trump told Swan.

What a convincing article of innocence. This surely doesn't speak towards damage control rather than actual moral debacle.

The context of the reporter asking "you feel that she's going to turn in powerful men?", before Trump saying she wishes her "well" is what I would interpret as "I hope she does", with her being "well" as being "not being suicided (like Epstein) before exposing her clientele".
The later interview does sound like him trying to run that back, though; after it was sensationalized against him.

From the one source provided, it seems like Epstein got kicked out because he became too comfortable with hanging around Mar-a-lago's youngest members, not because Epstein ran one of biggest pedophile rings of known history that Trump was taking down. The evidence points towards self preservation, not serious concerns with Epstein's dealings. Notably, his long term accomplice does not come up once in these discussions despite her being the driving force of grooming and Trumps more common contact.

I would reiterate again my initial thought of this being "not wanting to try to expose him/them as to not be suicided".

I haven't seen many people who took that many pictures with a known, unrepentant pedophile and their arguably worse groomer accomplice. In a perfect world, the list would be public and we would be getting proper justice. But the elites hate the commoners and wish for their children to be abused. Why hasn't a main talking point of Trump been exposing that list if he's so innocent? Is he afraid that his own personal flight logs will be forced into the public eye? Can you say for certain that Trump didn't just fly to the island in personal planes too avoid being an obvious guest of Epstein like Clinton was? Trump shuttle existed. It's not like Trump couldn't fly undocumented to where ever he pleases throughout the 80's and 90's; some of Epsteins most active years.

I don't think that many people are public-facing billionaires going to billionaire parties, especially that also happen to be mainstream pariahs that any and all interpretativly negative photos of them from decades ago would be dug up and publicized. I think it not being a main talking point is potentially due to it not being likely to win over the target of his campaign (especially relative to other larger issues), undecided voters, whom might be often neurotypical enough to consider the subject a "conspiracy theory"; which may dissuade them. That one cannot disprove that he may have is an argument from ignorance, and not really worth considering since proof should be with the claim that he did, and the circumstantial evidence he owned a private aircraft doesn't prove that.

I will gladly admit my favorable bias towards Trump (for how much better my life was financially during his presidency) leading me to see things from this perspective, but I feel like you're biasing towards having the desired conclusion that "Trump was one of the Epstein clients whom abused children" and trying to find evidence to support that conclusion. I think actually adding up the evidence presented and trying to conclude from it, there's no strong conclusions to draw other than that Trump and Epstein were both billionaires whom rubbed shoulders.

 

[MirrorNoir]

Watching the early morning MSNBC news show and the hate and venom that Biden screwed the pooch to the point that Trump's probably going to win in November is literally dripping from the news anchors' mouth.

In particular is the shade that the anchor threw, seconds after the show started, shitting on CNN for "not fact checking Trump" and basically not openly rigging shit to protect Biden full-stop.