Navy SEALs, Delta Force, and SOCOM general - The most "Special" groups in the U.S. Military

Another Ranger thinking he is better than everyone else. Rangers also had 50 times as many casualties as those units. Probably a Nick Irving alt. Regardless of what you think about SEALs, the probable war crimes, etc. saying they are on the same level as a regular SWAT team is such an obvious lie. And again nobody can explain why SEALs were chosen for:
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I don't know man. Why has the US Army conducted more amphibious landings than the USMC? Why has the Russian Naval Infantry conducted more Airborne operations than the VDV? Why was the US Tank Destroyer Branch sidelined by the US Military and eventually shit-canned after WW2 despite having an objectively better track record in armored combat than US Armor Branch?

The idea that there is any sort of "meritocracy" going in the miltiary is a joke and it's a dead give away someone hasn't served a single day in their life. It comes down to three things. Availability, budget and how many strings you have to pull on. Who's in the area? Do they have the numbers and budget to conduct something like that? Do they have any friends in high places? The US TD Branch was expensive and made a lot of armor branch folks very butt hurt that they were getting showed up. Armor branch had broader support so TD Branch got the axe. Performance was immaterial.

Or to use an example that this thread might be more familiar with. Red Wings. The SEALs were in the area, they had access to more assets than the marines (namely SOAR) , and they had a more direct link to command ergo more friends than the Marines. So they got the mission.
 

US Defense Dept. lab finds pattern of brain damage in Navy SEALs who died by suicide​

Researchers in the United States Defense Department have discovered a consistent, previously unknown pattern of brain damage in the bodies of Navy SEALs who were repeatedly exposed to blasts from their own weapons, The New York Times reported on Monday.

The discovery came after a string of suicides by veteran men who experienced a sudden onset of cognitive decline and emotional regulation issues around age 40 of the type indicative of brain damage, despite never having been wounded by enemy fire.


One veteran, David Metcalf, arranged a stack of books about brain injury and then taped a note to the door of his garage before shooting himself in the heart.

The note read, in part: “Gaps in memory, failing recognition, mood swings, headaches, impulsiveness, fatigue, anxiety, and paranoia were not who I was, but have become who I am.”

In Metcalf’s brain, researchers found damage that they have seen “again and again” in the brains of veterans with repeated blast exposure, the report said.

The damage is not chronic traumatic encephalopathy, or CTE, commonly seen in football players, nor is it evidence of a primarily psychological disorder, such as post-traumatic stress disorder.
A study in 2016 reported the specific pattern of microscopic damage, called interface astroglial scarring.

“For the first time, we could actually see the injury,” said Dr. Daniel Perl, who heads the Department of Defense Brain Tissue Repository, established in 2012, that conducted the research.
Many of the SEALs who eventually died by suicide had sought help for their symptoms from neurologists or psychologists, but none of these had successfully diagnosed the problem.

The findings only came after an effort by grieving families to facilitate donations of the veterans’ brains to the lab, which most had never heard of prior to their loved ones’ decline and suicide.

The report further said that until reporters from the newspaper informed the Navy of the lab’s findings, the Navy itself had not been aware of them, a claim that the Navy confirmed.

There is also evidence to suggest that living Navy SEALs are currently suffering from the same brain damage, the report said, citing a Harvard study published in April that found a connection between repeated blast exposure and alterations in brain structure, as well as lower quality of life, in SEALs who underwent brain scans.


The Navy is working to limit blast exposure going forward, Rear Adm. Keith Davids, commander of Navy Special Warfare, said in a statement to the Times.

“We have a moral obligation to protect the cognitive health and combat effectiveness of our teammates,” Davids said.
RIP to those no longer with us.
 
We need a good Trumpian nickname for Tuckah. Psycho Brent? Smiling as he talks about canoeing people.
Bananas Brent? Bonkers Brent? I dunno, but the more he talks the more he buries himself. I'll link it in the OP.
I don't know man. Why has the US Army conducted more amphibious landings than the USMC? Why has the Russian Naval Infantry conducted more Airborne operations than the VDV? Why was the US Tank Destroyer Branch sidelined by the US Military and eventually shit-canned after WW2 despite having an objectively better track record in armored combat than US Armor Branch?

The idea that there is any sort of "meritocracy" going in the miltiary is a joke and it's a dead give away someone hasn't served a single day in their life. It comes down to three things. Availability, budget and how many strings you have to pull on. Who's in the area? Do they have the numbers and budget to conduct something like that? Do they have any friends in high places? The US TD Branch was expensive and made a lot of armor branch folks very butt hurt that they were getting showed up. Armor branch had broader support so TD Branch got the axe. Performance was immaterial.

Or to use an example that this thread might be more familiar with. Red Wings. The SEALs were in the area, they had access to more assets than the marines (namely SOAR) , and they had a more direct link to command ergo more friends than the Marines. So they got the mission.
Yeah, the same could be said of why is the airborne still a thing when there's very little chance that 101st or 82nd will do another WW2 style-line jump. I think, if my memory isn't failing me, the last one was in Grenada. And the risk of injury or death while training for those is very high and mostly they will do regular infantry duties in war. It's a pretty high price to pay just to say you are a "paratrooper" and call everyone else "legs".

But back to the point, when you think about it, the similarities of DG and Delta on paper are incredibly high on paper. In middle GWOT, both Delta and DG had around the same number of people, both had access to SOAR, their budget was Tier 1 (that's where the terminology comes from. JSOC budget scale), their mission set was pretty similar, (DA, hostage rescue, clandestine raids), CQB, their weapons were similar, and they even worked together during McChrystal's cross-polination (cringe word, holy shit) of Delta and DG for JSOC. The only difference might be that DG has different Naval capabilities and works with SWCC and Delta might have other Army capabilities we don't know of (covert survaillance for example). So why would Delta get so sidelined so much if their capabilites are similar (on paper at least) on important, politically charged missions?

Unless you want to claim that somehow Naval Special Warfare is so good at stealing missions that they scooped everything under Delta's noses; but then JSOC only had 2 commanders from the Navy (McRaven and the current one, Bradley) so the argument of Navy favortism is also strange. We also have things like deployments with 60% purple hearts from Delta during middle GWOT and incredible OPSEC violations from Delta all over the thread. Red Wings was SEAL team 10, and that was 2005, and it was a small team that got ambushed and killed. What made it so bad was the chopper getting shot down and the cover story that came after.

While it's difficult to make the assesments when much of the information is classified, is pretty clear that Delta and Devgru have not been given similar missions in terms of both importance and political reach. while on paper having the same capabilities and their head organization, JSOC, being mostly lead by Army men. While it's impossible to say with complete certainty why, my suspicion is that Delta or the Army SOF did something very bad that has been underplayed to the public, but the higher ups know they are less reliable than ST6, even though ST6 is clearly not squeaky clean.

US Defense Dept. lab finds pattern of brain damage in Navy SEALs who died by suicide
Yeah, it's pretty clear that overpressure and rockets really does something to the brain. Hopefully a treatment to mitigate or repair brain damage is found, though it is difficult.
 
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I dunno. IMO the suggestion that Delta was just busy every single time (but it's totally secret bro), or that there's a conspiracy to favor SEAL Team 6 to be ridiculous. Hostage rescues over the years are incredibly rare and politically sensitive if they fail. The allegations against SEAL Team 6 are that they don't understand tactics and constantly shoot hostages and civilians. I doubt there would be a 20-year, multi-administration spanning conspiracy to favor them over a more competent unit. Hell even in 2003 in Iraq which was Delta's area of operation, SEAL Team 6 was given Delta's vehicles to conduct the Jessica Lynch rescue. The commander of JSOC at the time was an Army General.

In other news, SOCOM apparently did confirm the British MOD report that Matthew Tonroe was killed by friendly fire. So Brent and EJ are just straight up lying about what happened.

US, British Special Operators Were Killed in Friendly Incident, SOCOM Admits
Archive

Grain of salt based on the source. Anyone here read Tom Greer's books?
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“While it's difficult to make the assesments when much of the information is classified, is pretty clear that Delta and Devgru have not been given similar missions in terms of both importance and political reach.”

Lmfao people can be so oblivious it’s shocking.
Published in 2019.
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Joined today. Only 2 messages, and only in this thread. A quick name search. There's a typo, is Lana Del Rey, not, "Lana del Ray". But there's a page. Lanadelreyfan.com and a xitter with the same name.
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What the fuck dude? I swear, I hope you are trolling, but if a former Army SOCOM dude came on this thread to DeltaGuard, and was the admin of a fan page for Lana del Rey since 2011, I cannot even :story:

Grain of salt based on the source. Anyone here read Tom Greer's books?
I haven't but it checks out based both on Talon Anvil reports about flipping the camera and what Matt Cole reported in (ironically about ST6) "Code Over Country".
What had started as a tool to break a lock or bash a doorknob soon evolved into a secondary weapon. After several deployments in Iraq, the Delta operators had a discreet competition among themselves over who could score the most kills with the weapon. One retired three-star general who served at the Pentagon at the time told me senior officers and civilian officials received reports from the field that Delta operators were committing war crimes. The view from the higher levels of the Pentagon at the time, however, was that Iraq was a nasty war, the enemy didn’t follow the laws of armed conflict, and the limited atrocities served as a psychological deterrent to al Qaeda and the Iraq insurgency.


“We made it clear they needed to keep it quiet,” the retired general said. Delta kept track internally of who within the unit desecrated the dead or otherwise violated the laws of armed conflict, he said, and once the pace of the war slowed down enough that the individual operator could be replaced, the assaulter was quietly pushed out of Delta. “It served a purpose for a limited time during the war.”

When muh Deltarinos hack people, canoe and keep a score on hatchet kills, for Cole, "It served a purpose" but when members of ST6 did it, it shows corruption goes to the core of the ST6 organization. Now, I'm not SEAL guarding. If ST6 did the crimes that's fucking bad, but the double standard in reporting is obvious.
 
“Deltaguarding”

All I did was pointing out your comment.

“While it's difficult to make the assesments when much of the information is classified, is pretty clear that Delta and Devgru have not been given similar missions in terms of both importance and political reach.”

It’s difficult to make assessments because a lot of the info is classified but despite that, it’s “pretty clear” to you at the same time? Huh? What?
 
“Deltaguarding”

All I did was pointing out your comment.

“While it's difficult to make the assesments when much of the information is classified, is pretty clear that Delta and Devgru have not been given similar missions in terms of both importance and political reach.”

It’s difficult to make assessments because a lot of the info is classified but despite that, it’s “pretty clear” to you at the same time? Huh? What?
I understand where you are coming from, but we are talking about more than 25 years of history. It's an aggregate of observations of things that were made unclassified. Perhaps, yes, Delta has done some super classified missions sets that will never be revealed, but most of the politically sensitive ones were given to ST6. Also, lmao, look at the team photo in page 91. These dudes took a group photo, with theoretically "secret" patches of Delta "squadrons" that "don't exist" and when it gets uploaded they were like "Take it down broootha". So I'm supposed to believe that those guys ran a more classified mission set than ST6 and totally don't dox themselves in USPSA? It's a hard sell.

By the way, you didn't deny being the Lana Del Rey fan web admin. What is so cool about Lana del Rey? Her nosejob is a crime against humanity.
 
“Deltaguarding”

All I did was pointing out your comment.

“While it's difficult to make the assesments when much of the information is classified, is pretty clear that Delta and Devgru have not been given similar missions in terms of both importance and political reach.”

It’s difficult to make assessments because a lot of the info is classified but despite that, it’s “pretty clear” to you at the same time? Huh? What?

Yeah, yeah, stop yer yapping, get to the BLUF.

Are you purposefully doing guntguarding duties for the (ahem, allegedly) less-professional Delta units?
Yknow, the Delta units who shit their pants over OPSEC despite taking group photos? The Delta that allegedly recorded their war crimes and posted them to Instagram? (Source)... Come on, I need to know maaan.... it's super important for my superiors to know what your stance is on Delta brooo.
 
We need a good Trumpian nickname for Tuckah. Psycho Brent? Smiling as he talks about canoeing people.
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Big, fat, baby Brent, rambling about popping people in the face because he's a hasbeen. Maybe someone should canoe him with some Barbasol and a razor, his facial hair accentuates his being fat.
 
The r/navyseals Mod who got the Ranger's mad is a dangerous dude. He thinks too much. THEY probably don't like that. He was a SEAL in a SDV from his post history. He seems a bit bitter.
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About secrecy, it's really a meme, for Delta at least. Let's think about this. When the CIA did their "Extraordinary Rendition" (ER) program, when they took people to a black site and tortured them, which was highly illegal and controversial and sometimes done without the authorization of the executive power in the host country; how did the ER people look?
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And this was a snapshot from outside the airport. All black, with balaclavas for everyone. John Kiriakou reported that the ER teams were all like this. If you know that what you are doing will come bite you in the ass if you get pictured, this is what you'd do. But, let's say hypothetically, what if you wanted to create and lead a death squadron in the Wardak province of Afghanistan to commit mass murder. You know you'll never be accountable for it. Not really. You were just "following orders", and who cares about dead Afghans anyway?

You might be tempted, in that case, to do something very stupid like taking a group photo with the death squad you are leading. (lead by CIA and "Rangers" according to reporting)
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My point, their secrecy is a meme. They are not at risk, and it's just used to protect the higher ups from the consequences when FOIAs start dropping by. This is what I have to assume given their reckless OPSEC violations. No Delta is ever going to get criminally prosecuted or his life endangered for taking a picture with patches of the "secret" squadrons in a group photo or getting doxed in USPSA. The higher ups knew about the "hatchet competition" and did absolutely nothing because they thought they could get away with it, and they did. Identifying tattoos, ear pictures, places, etc all gets out and nothing happens. (Remember the Delta retard blur fail in foward observations group video)
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Nothing about their behavior even remotely suggests that they truly care about OPSEC in the same way an ER team might.
 
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The r/navyseals Mod who got the Ranger's mad is a dangerous dude. He thinks too much. THEY probably don't like that. He was a SEAL in a SDV from his post history. He seems a bit bitter.
He got kicked out of the SEAL Teams and spent time in Singaporean prison for getting drunk and assaulting a taxi driver. Did an AMA like 10 years ago where he refused to accept responsibility and painted himself and a martyr. The Red Man thing is cringy but if anyone earned the opportunity to LARP it's Red Squadron. They've never had anyone killed in combat and they've had only a handful wounded in their history.



 
They've never had anyone killed in combat
Bro...
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But yeah, they did perform well in GWOT. And the whole mascot thing is a bit funny, but traditions are okay. And they did get UBL. The CRUSADERS or PIRATES is also kinda funny and I'm pretty sure they based it on Football teams. At least not as cringe and super-serious as the Delta Latin logos.

Ian Damery Fitzgerald is our mod, it seems. I fucking hate that everything gets deleted in Reddit and can't see what he posted. He's probably embarrassed by it. He fancies himself a bit of a socialist and doesn't want people to join the Military, yet he gives tips in r/navyseals about fitness, is a mod and talks about his experiences in BUD/S and the service. Kinda weird lol. I guess one part of him gave so much to be in the job that he finds it hard to let go.
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Wasn't Roberts killed by his fall, not under fire?

Blue and Gold were traditional US Navy colors. The same logos can be found on Navy fighter jets too.
Edit: I didn't know about that ST6 shared the logos of the regular Navy. That's informative. Thanks!

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(Bill Rapier in Gold. Why the Blur on the flag?)

And yes, he was KIA'd. He didn't die due to an accident but the Chinook was taking fire from RPGs and DShK's and as the pilots were trying to get the bird up and away, causing Roberts to fall. Since the enemy fire caused the incident in the midst of battle, it still counts as KIA in the battle of Takur Ghar. I checked and Roberts has a PH.
 
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But back to the point, when you think about it, the similarities of DG and Delta on paper are incredibly high on paper. In middle GWOT, both Delta and DG had around the same number of people, both had access to SOAR, their budget was Tier 1 (that's where the terminology comes from. JSOC budget scale), their mission set was pretty similar, (DA, hostage rescue, clandestine raids), CQB, their weapons were similar, and they even worked together during McChrystal's cross-polination (cringe word, holy shit) of Delta and DG for JSOC. The only difference might be that DG has different Naval capabilities and works with SWCC and Delta might have other Army capabilities we don't know of (covert survaillance for example). So why would Delta get so sidelined so much if their capabilites are similar (on paper at least) on important, politically charged missions?
DG and Delta cannot be similar, by design. That's not how SOCOM/JSOC works. Let's look at MARSOC as an example. MARSOC does not have a distinct mission profile in any regards so as a result it gets treated as a redheaded step child and usually ends up with more low level missions or only as a support asset to the rest.

Delta's bread and butter have always been clandestine interdiction and/or snatch-and-grabs while ST6 was built from the ground up with hostage rescue in mind. Can they do, DA, Hostage Rescue, SR, COIN, etc? I'm sure they can, i'm sure most if not all SOCOM units are trained on that stuff to some extent, but i'm talking about what their job title is, what they're specifically being kept around for. So am i shocked that SOCOM picked the guys they keep around for hostage rescue, to conduct hostage rescues? Not really. Even that though can be a little misleading. Since pretty much all the missions Delta Farce mentioned were all mixed unit missions anyways.

My point is, stuff like that typically has no actual baring on a units competency or performance. Tank Crews are trained to some extent on patrolling, security, surveillance/recon and even CQB. Your tank platoon could be the absolute best at Surveillance and Recon but you'll never get picked over your scouts even if they're complete dogshit simply because that's not your job title. That's not why you're being kept around. Unless, as i mentioned before, you have better budget than your scouts ergo better kit, you are in much greater numbers than your scouts or your scouts lost a lot of people, to which point you might start to subsidies them, and you know someone high up that can swing that decision in your favor. All those things being equal however, it always comes down to job title.
 
So I'm not up to snuff on all my special forces fuckups, what happened there?
Followup from part of the OP. Jonathan Dunbar had a negligent discharge with an explosive breaching charge, killing himself, an SAS Operator, and crippling a SEAL. Delta lied and said it was an IED. On an early podcast they confidently repeated that lie but on this later interview he got emotional and couldn't do it again, for some reason.
 
Followup from part of the OP. Jonathan Dunbar had a negligent discharge with an explosive breaching charge, killing himself, an SAS Operator, and crippling a SEAL. Delta lied and said it was an IED. On an early podcast they confidently repeated that lie but on this later interview he got emotional and couldn't do it again, for some reason.
Also, a gnarly detail. Considering how Brent has lied so much through the whole saga, the fact that he said to Jon's sons that he "died painlessly" makes me believe that it could be another lie. I been watching videos from the Russo-Ukraine war, and many people survive for minutes after literally getting blasted by explosives. Just the fact that Brent needed to say that, when most people would assume you are killed instantly in a blast is what makes me doubt.
Delta's bread and butter have always been clandestine interdiction and/or snatch-and-grabs while ST6 was built from the ground up with hostage rescue in mind.
This is literally wrong. From the Wikipedia.
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And just in case you don't trust Wikipedia, which is fair, remember the history. The first ever mission Delta had was Eagle Claw which was a hostage rescue operation. And Col. Charles Beckwith wanted to create a carbon copy of the SAS which had the hostage rescue capability in mind. Eagle Claw was in 1979 and the successful Iranian embassy hostage rescue by the SAS was in May 1980. (ST6 was commissioned in November 1980)

So it's clear Delta was conceived to fight terrorism and rescue hostages, just like the SAS. If you think about it, it was all a response to the threat of terrorism in the 70's and the Munich massacre of '72, when regular police proved themselves incapable of handling a capable hostage rescue, lacking training for that specialized skill. Saying Delta was not created from the ground up for hostage rescue is factually not true, and you can clearly see it if you look at the timeline and history of the units.

Marcinko created ST6 because he thought he could do better than Delta with his SEALs and style of command and after Eagle Claw failed.
 
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