UK British News Megathread - aka CWCissey's news thread

https://news.sky.com/story/row-over-new-greggs-vegan-sausage-rolls-heats-up-11597679

A heated row has broken out over a move by Britain's largest bakery chain to launch a vegan sausage roll.

The pastry, which is filled with a meat substitute and encased in 96 pastry layers, is available in 950 Greggs stores across the country.

It was promised after 20,000 people signed a petition calling for the snack to be launched to accommodate plant-based diet eaters.


But the vegan sausage roll's launch has been greeted by a mixed reaction: Some consumers welcomed it, while others voiced their objections.

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spread happiness@p4leandp1nk
https://twitter.com/p4leandp1nk/status/1080767496569974785

#VEGANsausageroll thanks Greggs

7
10:07 AM - Jan 3, 2019

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Cook and food poverty campaigner Jack Monroe declared she was "frantically googling to see what time my nearest opens tomorrow morning because I will be outside".

While TV writer Brydie Lee-Kennedy called herself "very pro the Greggs vegan sausage roll because anything that wrenches veganism back from the 'clean eating' wellness folk is a good thing".

One Twitter user wrote that finding vegan sausage rolls missing from a store in Corby had "ruined my morning".

Another said: "My son is allergic to dairy products which means I can't really go to Greggs when he's with me. Now I can. Thank you vegans."

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pg often@pgofton
https://twitter.com/pgofton/status/1080772793774624768

The hype got me like #Greggs #Veganuary


42
10:28 AM - Jan 3, 2019

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TV presenter Piers Morgan led the charge of those outraged by the new roll.

"Nobody was waiting for a vegan bloody sausage, you PC-ravaged clowns," he wrote on Twitter.

Mr Morgan later complained at receiving "howling abuse from vegans", adding: "I get it, you're all hangry. I would be too if I only ate plants and gruel."

Another Twitter user said: "I really struggle to believe that 20,000 vegans are that desperate to eat in a Greggs."

"You don't paint a mustach (sic) on the Mona Lisa and you don't mess with the perfect sausage roll," one quipped.

Journalist Nooruddean Choudry suggested Greggs introduce a halal steak bake to "crank the fume levels right up to 11".

The bakery chain told concerned customers that "change is good" and that there would "always be a classic sausage roll".

It comes on the same day McDonald's launched its first vegetarian "Happy Meal", designed for children.

The new dish comes with a "veggie wrap", instead of the usual chicken or beef option.

It should be noted that Piers Morgan and Greggs share the same PR firm, so I'm thinking this is some serious faux outrage and South Park KKK gambiting here.

 

[Trig.Point]

Any lawyers here? If there’s a barrister here please comment, but what the fuck are you doing here?

I though legal aid was super underfunded and no one wanted to do it unless they had to? Even then it’s only half arsed.

A firm isn’t going to pay for experts they are not able to charge for.

Legal aid, if I understand correctly, you’re getting the most basic of service possible and you’d better be innocent.

If you’re going against an entire profession, government department and organisation, you’re probably fucked, innocent or guilty, with legal aid representation.

Has funding changed in recent years? I can remember barristers and solicitors starting to boycott taking cases a while back?

For a murder trial once legal aid is granted they'll pay the going rate. Letby got fucked by the fact that the 'cab rank' system is still largely intact and she was stuck with the barrister her solicitor instructed. He like so many other British members of the legal profession was less concerned with defending his client than he was with not pissing off the court, the police, the cps and the larger legal community. He was I'm sure a lovely chap who did his best to make Lucy's transition to prison as painless as possible.

As for the experts, they are several stating they would have been happy to give evidence. It's just he didn't call any, he made a half arsed attempt to challenge Dr Evans the prosecutions main witness but offered none of his own. Incidentally Evans is now crying like a little bitch that he's getting 'hate' online. Which makes me think he's starting to worry about getting scrutiny, particularly from the foreign media that the courts can't cow.

At the same time, based on everything that came our around Lucy Letby? She's a schizo baby murderer, and those character references saying she was super nice and loved babies put me in mind of how people said Harold Shipman was a wonderful doctor; psychopaths hide in plain sight. I'm not closed off to the idea this was a mistrial but based on everything I've seen from this, my personal opinion is she murdered those babies.

There was a shit ton of actual physical evidence that Shipman was a murderer. It's just that nobody noticed until he got so blatant he started falsifying wills in a ham fisted way.

 

[FedPostalService]

I was hoping people saw my “vaxxed?” comment as a joke but now I don’t know if it is me or the people who replied who are retarded

 

[Otterly]

I was hoping people saw my “vaxxed?” comment as a joke but now I don’t know if it is me or the people who replied who are retarded

Eh, it’s not a bad question. There was an inquest into the stillbirth rate going sky high here after the shots were rolled out and pushed on pregnant women. The still birth rate and prematurity rates dropped hard (which is good) during the lockdowns, to the point the NICU was almost empty, and then as soon as the shots were rolled out it went right up. The inquest decided before it started that they would not be looking at the vaccines at all whatsoever no sir, they were absolutely sure it wasn’t that and would t want to affect public confidence in them. No no idea what causes the massively high rate of dead babies but we are totally sure it’s not the vaccines!

So to ask that if the deaths fell within that period is reasonable. And there will never ever be an inquest into that either

 

[Overly Serious]

Juries can be stupid and my experiences of jury service was bleak and depressing (literally some people making a snap decision and others wanting to agree to get it over with). A failure to present expert witnesses means the jury, who have to make a judgement off what they're told, aren't presented with conflicting evidence.

At the same time, based on everything that came our around Lucy Letby? She's a schizo baby murderer, and those character references saying she was super nice and loved babies put me in mind of how people said Harold Shipman was a wonderful doctor; psychopaths hide in plain sight. I'm not closed off to the idea this was a mistrial but based on everything I've seen from this, my personal opinion is she murdered those babies.

I don't know if she's guilty or not, all we know for certain is that she got a deeply flawed defence to the point her barrister seems to have practically been on the side of the prosecution, and that there was a spike in deaths of the premature babies. The spike, incidentally, ending at the same time that apparently they reduced the number of premature babies they accepted. So what caused the drop? Her taking in fewer premature babies? The latter would almost have to be a factor you would think.

So none of this is an argument that she didn't do it. But it's a lead in to whether those notes and diary entries are reason to believe she did. The journal entries, it could indicate that but it's hardly conclusive. It's entirely possible, in fact to be hoped, that a nurse will feel upset if an infant in her care passes and if you're the sort that keeps a diary not weird to note it to me. I'm not saying either way I'm just saying I don't find it that out of the ordinary. For the notes, well, apart from thinking with handwriting that bad she should be a doctor rather than a nurse, I again think there's reasonable doubt. These were all written after the fact during the period where the accusations had begun. I have been unpersoned by people I thought were my friends and it badly affected me and I am someone who is very used to being a little out of step with society and have had a number of periods in my life where I've had to forge ahead without a great deal of support. I'm also male which in the general case can be a factor too. Take someone very much unused to ostracism, ramp it up from not merely immediate friends but national hatred, neighbours, colleagues, the lot. It is a strong person who wouldn't go to pieces. I couldn't easily read the second two but I made the effort to read the first one where she writes "I killed them" and "I deserve it" but people internalise societal feelings. Particularly people who believe in the subconscious and all that psychotherapy stuff which many people do. She can as easily be wondering if she accidentally did it on purpose because she's a bad person.

Again, none of this is argument that she didn't do it but whilst on a first glance selected notes from her breakdown can seem damning, on reflection I do not consider it strong evidence of guilt. Evidence of someone breaking down under a level of persecution and ostracism very few of us could imagine. And again, I'll emphasize that if you're a poster here on the Farms you are probably already have a quite different relationship to normal society than your typical early thirties British woman.

 

[AssignedEva]

Hmm. Like I said I'm not completely opposed to the idea she was framed, and I agree her lawyer was terrible. So I do accept there's a possibility she's innocent.

But I indulge my worst tendencies here. It's possible Chris-Chan is so autistic that he thought raping his mother was just "soul bonding", and you can't really prove his intent or that he knew it was wrong. But at the same time, he obviously he raped Barb and was fully cognisant of what he was doing and deserved to be punished for it.

Likewise as someone posting on KiwiFarms: Lucy Letby murdered those babies because she's a schizo, and she confessed to it. I don't really hold my gut instinct to the same standard as judiciary.

 

[Overly Serious]

Hmm. Like I said I'm not completely opposed to the idea she was framed, and I agree her lawyer was terrible. So I do accept there's a possibility she's innocent.

But I indulge my worst tendencies here. It's possible Chris-Chan is so autistic that he thought raping his mother was just "soul bonding", and you can't really prove his intent or that he knew it was wrong. But at the same time, he obviously he raped Barb and was fully cognisant of what he was doing and deserved to be punished for it.

Likewise as someone posting on KiwiFarms: Lucy Letby murdered those babies because she's a schizo, and she confessed to it. I don't really hold my gut instinct to the same standard as judiciary.

I have given you the of 'Like and Agree don't quite fit but Dislike and Disagree definitely don't but I still want you to know I read and considered what you wrote' reaction.

 

[Whoopsie Daisy]

I honestly don’t know whether she was guilty or not, the evidence was entirely circumstantial but it was strange that she was involved every single time a baby died. She certainly didn’t get a fair and unbiased trial.

How could she get a fair trial when the media were smearing her from day one. It was too pushed to be organic.

What was her reason given for writing "I did it!" and "I am evil" in her journal? If I remember that correctly. Just break down? Out of context?

Because she's a wierdo, and/or she killed a kid. People die in hospitals due to mistakes from Dr's/Nurses, the decent ones get tore up inside and let it out in different ways.

We're going to have to deal with the Letby truthers for years, aren't we?

I'm not a truther, but I can smell bullshit a mile away, and this case stinks like the bovine latrine at a dairy farm.

Two of the babies were killed by being injected with insulin - the defence didn't deny this. If Letby didn't kill them, that means there's another murderer about. She also stalked the families on Facebook, tried to falsify the records, and of course wrote "I am evil, I did this".
The chances that this was a miscarriage of justice are exceptionally slim.

There are lots of murderers about in that, and many other hospitals. Look at Stafford, which was threatened to be shut down if another kid died there.

I'll shed some light on why I think it's a big set up:
Hospitals are under immense scrutiny when a child dies. With that in mind, Letby was charged with seven counts of murder and EIGHT of attempted murder.
We're all adults here and know how employment works; we all have a boss.
Why was letby not investigated after one or two baby deaths? Why wasn't she trained, retrained, observed and then fired after baby death three or four? Why wasn't her line manager investigated and also put on trial? The HSE at the hospital, the training staff, they all failed yet only one took the fall; Letby.

Why was she allowed to continue baby jobs if she had killed two of them? "It was a cover up, she covered her tracks" doesn't count. She didn't Weekend At Bernies 7 infants. They were dead and there was no hiding that fact.

Either she's a serial killer and her bosses didn't give a fuck, or there's a competency crisis that is being covered up and we're only seeing the tip of the iceberg

BONUS: While googling how many kids she killed I saw this article, at the very top of Google in a big colourful box:
Guardian says that experts reckon this could all be bollocks
The article was published three days ago. I bet my account that we see more baby death scandals in the next few months.

 

[Trig.Point]

How could she get a fair trial when the media were smearing her from day one. It was too pushed to be organic.

The courts were fine with the press smearing her, yet data scientist that runs a twitter account called Science on trial got a letter from the police for suggesting the statistics used by the prosecution were nonsense.

https://x.com/Forensic_Sci_/status/1812200364458049704

 

[Rusty Metal Skull Gun]

Why was letby not investigated after one or two baby deaths? Why wasn't she trained, retrained, observed and then fired after baby death three or four? Why wasn't her line manager investigated and also put on trial? The HSE at the hospital, the training staff, they all failed yet only one took the fall; Letby.

Because of the culture of the NHS. Don't forget that when the doctors raised concerns, they were forced to apologize to her. They hate any whiff of scandal.
And while I think heads ought to roll, it's not really clear what crime anybody other than Letby has committed. Gross negligence manslaughter? Well, maybe, but they'd argue that it was reasonable to assume that their staff weren't psychopaths.

The notes are clearly schizo. There's not a single person who produces notes like this purely for their own reference who is not a schizo.

This is a good point. I bet a decent lawyer would have pushed her towards an insanity defence.

 

[Whoopsie Daisy]

And while I think heads ought to roll, it's not really clear what crime anybody other than Letby has committed. Gross negligence manslaughter? Well, maybe, but they'd argue that it was reasonable to assume that their staff weren't psychopaths.

Anyone who works in care is a psychopath.

Let's say I work for JCB. I'm fully trained. I break a JCB beyond repair because im shit at my job. What happens? I break another. What happens?
How many JCBs could you send to the scrapyard before you were sacked? 7 and 8 half demolished?
If letby did what she did, then more heads should roll than hers. The fact that she isn't allowed to appeal should raise eyebrows.

I don't give a single monkeys fart about letby or those kids. I just find it entertaining that people believe it so quickly, without questioning.

You quote a poster who voted for Sadiq Khan and refers to liz truss as lettuce. They're the definition of niggercattle, of course they will believe what telebox says.

 

[isalaide]

@Bog-standard Poster
Something to keep in mind is that Letby went on her rampage in NICU. These babies weren't nine pounds of 40 weeks' gestational age little cherubs, right as rain. Seven, eight of them dying whilst their mums are in the antenatal ward? That doesn't happen. If it did, you'd be looking for something absolutely fucking terrible as the causative agent.
But these kids were 23, 24, 25 weeks. Twenty years ago they were stillbirths, in most hospitals. Do not attempt resuscitation before 28 weeks. Babies born that premature are fighting the odds hard to start with. Lungs don't work, nothing works. No one gives you good chances that you'll take your 23 weeker home, although some of them do make it. Most of them significantly disabled.
It wasn't a surprise that they died, so the fact they died was not in itself unusual. What roused suspicion in her colleagues was that all these ones died when Letby was there. They also had no other common factors. The data was gathered and analysed for months before and during her rampage by her consultants. When she was off shift, the unit had slightly better than average mortality statistics. When you looked at only when she was on shift, the statistics were fucking awful.
There is absolutely no fucking reason that these deaths, unusual in themselves, should also be so outwith the (otherwise pretty closely clustered) death rates of other premies in every other NICU unit in the entirety of England.
Her consultants, who were made to apologise to her because she cried a lot and brought her fucking dad to meetings and suicide baited, pulled all this data and presented it when they demanded that for patient safety, she had to be off the ward. Either she was terminally incompetent, or something much darker was happening. But she was the common link, and she had to go.
The Trust refused to act.
The inquiry is going to force the Trust to explain why the judgement of every consultant on that ward was overruled by middle class white girl tears. That is not going to be fucking pretty. There's a whiff of misfeasance in public office in the air there.
Lives would have been saved if she'd been off the ward sooner. The Trust management have many questions to answer. The consultants did everything they could. One of them even refused her access to the ward one day and was duly suspended for doing so.

 

[AssignedEva]

They're the definition of niggercattle, of course they will believe what telebox says

I'm not quite sure what the inverse of niggercattle is, perhaps edgelord-sheep? Something that refers to a pure contrarian that can't consider nuance.

As I said, my perspective on Lucy Letby is that she might be innocent, but based on the actual evidence that has been released to the public - devoid of media narrative - my instinct is she killed those kids. But I drew the comparison to Shipman on purpose. Children in an ICU are often very ill, and they tend to die no matter what happens. There's clearly negligence in the NHS that she got away with so many murders, but it is very different from a JCB breaking down. Multiple JCBs breaking down is highly suspicious, but multiple poorly babies dying is something that sadly happens, and people's first instinct is not a murderous nurse, in the same way multpile octogenarians dying doesnt lead to the same level of suspicion.

My instinct that Lucy Letby murdered multiple infants also doesn't preclude the idea that people in that trust should be held responsible, and as you'll note I never said oor NHS heroes deserved accolades for finally catching her. You've obviously projected that idea onto me because you've got a black and white view of the world that means someone seeming to disagree with you must mean they oppose all of your viewpoints. Lucy Letby murdered children and why did nobody stop her? That's my perspective. The people who failed to stop her need to be in prison for criminal negligence.

My issue is people trying to suggest she's innocent. If you think the unhinged woman writing schizo notes about how she can't have children and making a log of every baby who died before they even died is innocent... well, you're probably more deserving of the niggercattle moniker than I, since you've fallen for the oldest trick in the book; a pretty blonde lady batting her lashes.

 

[FedPostalService]

a pretty blonde lady batting her lashes.

Do we have any nudes or bikini photos so I can truly judge if she is innocent or not?

 

[Otterly]

I bet my account that we see more baby death scandals in the next few months.

Yeah, this wouldn’t surprise me. I’ve given birth on the nhs and frankly I’d have preferred to have been at our local vet. The care was dreadful. I rarely saw the same midwife twice. One was so rough with a bump examination I told her to stop and refused to let her touch me again (I have had multiple kids, not a first time mum and she was almost thumping the baby and seemed to enjoy it.) i was at one point told multiple times by that midwife with almost glee that I could still abort if I wanted to, when I’d had absolutely no mention of such a thing. I refused to let her near me again, she was mental.
It was an absolute shit show. Hygiene was dire. Postnatal care was effectively absent.
I’ve also given birth in another European country and it was like night and day - so much better.
I would never give birth on the nhs ever again. I would go abroad or go fully private. I was prepared for it to be a bit rough and ready but it was pretty shocking. Couple of Filipino nurses were pretty good, everyone else was awful.
The state of the wards, the filth, overcrowding, male relatives of women using the toilets and bathrooms, blood not cleaned up, zero pain relief for women in pain after crash sections, it was like a zoo. Although zoo animals are valuable and probably get cared for more. The attitude of the MWs and nursing staff was appalling but that weird midwife will stick with me. There are some very peculiar people in medicine
If there’s doubt there needs to be a review. All evidence should be looked at. If she’s guilty lock her up for life.

 

[FedPostalService]

Yeah, this wouldn’t surprise me. I’ve given birth on the nhs and frankly I’d have preferred to have been at our local vet. The care was dreadful. I rarely saw the same midwife twice. One was so rough with a bump examination I told her to stop and refused to let her touch me again (I have had multiple kids, not a first time mum and she was almost thumping the baby and seemed to enjoy it.) i was at one point told multiple times by that midwife with almost glee that I could still abort if I wanted to, when I’d had absolutely no mention of such a thing. I refused to let her near me again, she was mental.
It was an absolute shit show. Hygiene was dire. Postnatal care was effectively absent.
I’ve also given birth in another European country and it was like night and day - so much better.
I would never give birth on the nhs ever again. I would go abroad or go fully private. I was prepared for it to be a bit rough and ready but it was pretty shocking. Couple of Filipino nurses were pretty good, everyone else was awful.
The state of the wards, the filth, overcrowding, male relatives of women using the toilets and bathrooms, blood not cleaned up, zero pain relief for women in pain after crash sections, it was like a zoo. Although zoo animals are valuable and probably get cared for more. The attitude of the MWs and nursing staff was appalling but that weird midwife will stick with me. There are some very peculiar people in medicine
If there’s doubt there needs to be a review. All evidence should be looked at. If she’s guilty lock her up for life.

This is something I have went on about to normie friends for a while: midwives are fucking insane.

They are like a weird faction of their own in the NHS who think they know more than doctors.

They full of weirdos who love recommending “alternative medicine” and it wouldn’t surprise me if there’s not a couple of dead kids out there because they were recommending homeopathic remedies to new mothers rather than seeking actual medical evaluation.

They were pretty sadistic in denying women requests for pain relief during birth due to some old timie belief that mothers needed to feel the most pain possible to bond with their children. The GMC had to put their foot down in the end as it was insanely unethical, had no evidence to back it, and coukd probably see lawsuits coming.

I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a growing number of troon midwives either.

There’s a reason why they were burnt as witches once.

 

[Overly Serious]

Seven, eight of them dying whilst their mums are in the antenatal ward? That doesn't happen. If it did, you'd be looking for something absolutely fucking terrible as the causative agent.

The normal number per annum at that unit was four such infants dying. So was it rising to 13 in that year statistically significant? It's hard to say without knowing the variance from year to year on those numbers. It's also not possible to call the number a spike during her time there because when this happened, the hospital also reduced the number of premature babies it accepted. If you're confident the reason babies are dying is because of a murderous nurse, why do you then drop the number you deal with sharply having gotten rid of her?

Let's say I work for JCB. I'm fully trained. I break a JCB beyond repair because im shit at my job.

Lets kill this analogy dead right here. Babies in an ICU are not comparable to working JCB equipment. Working JCB equipment continues to work until you, in your analogy, being shit at your job manage to break it somehow. A baby in an ICU is something you actively are working to save and may fail at - will fail at, some of the time.

Baby = JCB is one of the dumbest arguments in this thread and someone like you on a jury is a great example of why she might be innocent.

since you've fallen for the oldest trick in the book; a pretty blonde lady batting her lashes.

Whatever you think my reasons might be for quibbling on your posts, I'm not going to let you attribute that motivation to me.

 

[Inspector Rex]

Labour moves to ban puberty blockers permanently in UK​

I'm probably late with this, but can someone explain British politics to me, why exactly didn't Conservative party do it? I thought Labour were pro-troonery.

 

[Morethanabitfoolish]

Labour moves to ban puberty blockers permanently in UK​

I'm probably late with this, but can someone explain British politics to me, why exactly didn't Conservative party do it? I thought Labour were pro-troonery.

The article covers a lot of it but the TLDR;

Tories initially thought self-ID was some non-issue so were lightly in favour of it around a decade ago (think it was probably even less than that)
Cass Review was commissioned about 3 or 4 years ago when the trans stuff started hitting the mainstream consciousness and causing issues
The finished review came out a relatively short while ago and an emergency block on the blockers was brought in in April by the Tories. Lawfare is ongoing around that currently
Labour are still pro-trans but have only been elected by voter indifference so are having to tread carefully. They'll try to drag the will they won't they on a permanent ban out for some time

 

[FedPostalService]

The article covers a lot of it but the TLDR;

Tories initially thought self-ID was some non-issue so were lightly in favour of it around a decade ago (think it was probably even less than that)
Cass Review was commissioned about 3 or 4 years ago when the trans stuff started hitting the mainstream consciousness and causing issues
The finished review came out a relatively short while ago and an emergency block on the blockers was brought in in April by the Tories. Lawfare is ongoing around that currently
Labour are still pro-trans but have only been elected by voter indifference so are having to tread carefully. They'll try to drag the will they won't they on a permanent ban out for some time

Also Dr Hilary Cass will soon be Lady Cass in the House of Lords and could be a loud pain in the arse for Labour, who are resoundingly quiet or supportive of troon mobs going after women.

 

[Whoopsie Daisy]

The Trust refused to act.
The inquiry is going to force the Trust to explain why the judgement of every consultant on that ward was overruled by middle class white girl tears. That is not going to be fucking pretty. There's a whiff of misfeasance in public office in the air there.
Lives would have been saved if she'd been off the ward sooner. The Trust management have many questions to answer. The consultants did everything they could. One of them even refused her access to the ward one day and was duly suspended for doing so.

There we go.
If Letby was killing those kids because she was a spastic and shit at her job, not because she was a maniac, then the trust, or whomever the top bod is, should be on trial for negligent manslaughter (I think that's the right term)

I'm not quite sure what the inverse of niggercattle is, perhaps edgelord-sheep? Something that refers to a pure contrarian that can't consider nuance.

I'm not contrarian. Letby, in one form or another, was a scapegoat or fallguy for much bigger failings. She was used to keep the heat off of the hospital.

As I said, my perspective on Lucy Letby is that she might be innocent,

I don't think she's innocent, I just think she's a mong who should have lost her job after baby death 2. Everything after that is at the fault of The Trust, as @isalaide says.

Baby = JCB is one of the dumbest arguments in this thread and someone like you on a jury is a great example of why she might be innocent.

I wouldn't have voted guilty and would have gone 12 angry men on the jury. The analogy works fine. How many times can I hypothetically, catastrophically balls-up at work and still keep my job?
Letby killed/broke 7 babies/products. In more jobs you'd be out on your arse after number 2.