GPUs & CPUs & Enthusiast hardware: Questions, Discussion and fanboy slap-fights - Nvidia & AMD & Intel - Separe but Equal. Intel rides in the back of the bus.

@WULULULULU Thanks for those vids. I've just watched the entirety of the Gamers Nexus one. I think it's obvious that if you're a gamer you either get current gen X3D or wait for the 9000 series X3D chips. For me as a productivity user and light coding (most of my professional heavy lifting is done in the Cloud these days), a non X3D is fine. Looks like my gains over the Zen 4 equivalents would be around 1-3%. BUT, I'm not on Zen 4, I'm on a first gen Threadripper.

So for me it's just a question of whether I want to spend around an extra £60 for nearly half the power consumption... I think for me I might. I get what Steve is saying in that video but I think the efficiency gains are impressive. Coming from my Threadripper, a 65W CPU is going to be huge.

These chips still have on-die graphics, right? So can be used without a discrete GPU?
 
Jay? lol, whats next you gonna link LTT?


I refuse to click it:

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LTT somehow having different results than everyone else.

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I clicked it:
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I refuse to link/watch LTT out of pure spite. Plus, I found these videos and they were 1-2 hours already published so these were the reviews I found so far.

Thinking about it, if the 9700X is an efficiency monster, wouldn't it work better for laptops?
 
I refuse to link/watch LTT out of pure spite. Plus, I found these videos and they were 1-2 hours already published so these were the reviews I found so far.

Thinking about it, if the 9700X is an efficiency monster, wouldn't it work better for laptops?
I'm assuming that there's a more efficient chip for laptops, or will be?
 
From what I'm seeing, the 9700x is a 65w CPU, and others have unlocked the PBO to get it to about 105w I believe, and they're seeing a performance increase up to 25%. Crazy that AMD wanted to save up on power draw but it slingshot into the other direction at the cost of reduced performance.
 
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I'm assuming that there's a more efficient chip for laptops, or will be?
That's Strix Point, no? Reviews for that have been trickling in since last week and it's very impressive for power efficiency, going head to head with Snapdragon processors, though still not yet able to match the M3.

Past generations had models without on-die graphics (like my 5800X has no on-die graphics) but it looks like all of these CPUs will have integrated graphics.
Thanks. It does have two GPU cores onboard. I just don't know if that's enough for such a monster resolution. It's not for gaming but I'd still like some confirmation before I buy. Can't find anything anywhere on my use case. Some motherboard specs suggest I'm alright but I'm not buying a chip on "maybe".

Phoronix have their test results up and they are much more positive than Gamer's Nexus. Of course they're all about Linux and they're also super-happy about how it's pretty much got everything ready for Linux at launch. They're also a lot more excited about the power efficiency than Gamer's Nexus. Which makes sense - gamers don't care if their chip is a bit thirsty when they spend a grand on a GPU. Still, an interesting review:

Not all about efficiency, either. For those who've been talking about the difference the AVX-512 support might make, the answer appears to be "yes".
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avx512.png

And for more traditional web-focused development:
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They have some compilation benchmarks in there as well which didn't look that radical to me but as I said, they were very pleased at how little power it took to use it. So there's one very positive review anyway.

Now someone correct me if I'm wrong but the 9000 series have improvements to their memory controller, is that right? So all these like for like tests are not the whole story if you can slam some DDR5-8000 memory in there and it's happy. (But correct me if I'm wrong - I've been tuned out of the CPU world for a while).
 
That's Strix Point, no? Reviews for that have been trickling in since last week and it's very impressive for power efficiency, going head to head with Snapdragon processors, though still not yet able to match the M3
That surprises me, I had assumed that there was a fundamental power difference between x86 and arm CPUs that couldn't be mitigated.
 
That surprises me, I had assumed that there was a fundamental power difference between x86 and arm CPUs that couldn't be mitigated.
On the other side of the instruction decoding the chips can be as efficient as each other. The difficulty for x86 is that decoding the larger instruction set is obviously more complex. But also larger instruction sets didn't come about because they have no value. Implemented well, it lets you send fewer instructions to the CPU rather than many small ones.

I had a good article on it somewhere I could try to find if interested. But the results are pretty clear. AMD is now able to get comparable power efficiency to the Snapdragon processors (but not M3) which is a potentially significant problem for Snapdragon because whilst Windows support for it is now very impressive, there are still holes, still problems. And some are significant like VPN client support. At least to users who need them. So AMD is eating into its biggest selling point whilst having fewer issues.

I'm considering a new laptop
 
Eh. It looks like AMD went with efficiency...and I'm fine with that. The review I saw for the 9700x showed almost 60 watts and 40c less on cinebench vs the 7700x. While performing better.
I'm not so sure about the efficiency argument. When put up against the Ryzen 7 7700 (non-X) with the same 65W TDP, the claimed +16% average IPC increase doesn't seem to materialize:

cinebench9700x.pnggaming9700x.png

AnandTech's review also includes the 65W 7700. The 9700X gets wins, but is often matched by the 7700, sometimes beaten. The 9700X seems to be better in single-threaded than multi-threaded.

It wouldn't shock me if the 9700X/9600X need a BIOS update to get a few more % performance without changing the power draw, especially in more multi-thread heavy applications and games. The 1-2 week delay could have been addressing a lot more than a few mislabeled CPUs.

Some packaging thing they did supposedly lowered temperatures by several degrees, which is good, but they have changed the temperature sensors inside the chip according to Gamers Nexus, so it may not be so easy to measure the true improvement in a way that is fair to the previous generation.
 
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Looks like there's some weirdness with the initial reviews. There's some big discrepancies between what AMD told reviewers to expect in terms of performance and what reviewers are actually getting. Gordon and The Other Guy™ from PCWorld are talking about it now:

Yeah, GN had a defective cpu.
 
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Yeah, GN had a defective cpu.
Gamers Nexus had a defective 9600X, but they got a new one and that review is coming soon, probably tomorrow (their usual pattern is to only post one CPU review per day anyway). Their 9700X wasn't defective as far as we know, but the review was not kind.

Tom's Hardware's review is more positive for the 9700X and 9600X.
 
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Thinking about it, if the 9700X is an efficiency monster, wouldn't it work better for laptops?
It's just your typical process node efficiency gains. Laptop power consumption is more about effective power is management and keeping the clock speed low, not absolute flops per watt.

I had a good article on it somewhere I could try to find if interested. But the results are pretty clear. AMD is now able to get comparable power efficiency to the Snapdragon processors (but not M3) which is a potentially significant problem for Snapdragon because whilst Windows support for it is now very impressive, there are still holes, still problems.

AMD's Zen 4c cores in their 128-core datacenter CPUs are every bit as efficient as Ampere's Arm CPUs. The amount of energy spent on decoding instructions just isn't that high. Data movement & clock speed matter far more.
 
Will PC makers replace your crashing Intel chip? We asked 14 of them

Acer — would not promise warranty extension​

We are currently investigating which models of Acer desktops may have these specific chipsets, but as of today, we haven’t heard of any widespread customer reports of crashes or instability on our Intel-based desktops. Once we complete our investigation, we’ll determine if any modifications will need to be made to our warranty offerings, but this may take us a week to complete.

Asus — two-year warranty extension​

ASUS is aware of this issue and is actively assisting our customers in mitigating its impact. This includes providing timely BIOS updates based on Intel’s latest investigation. We will also offer a two-year extended warranty for affected Desktop CPU. More information can be found here: Warranty Policy for Intel® Boxed and Tray Processors and Additional Warranty Updates on Intel Core 13th/14th Gen Desktop Processors - Intel Community. (Note: the maximum warranty period for affected CPU can be up to five years only. Further details on this will come later.)
ASUS deeply cares about our customers’ satisfaction and we remain committed to providing the highest level of quality and service. If you have any questions, contact your local customer service center. Please stay tuned for further updates.

Dell and Alienware — would not promise warranty extension but “all costs are covered”​

Any customers experiencing instability issues with their Intel Core 13th/14th Gen desktop processors should reach out to Dell Technical Support. Processors diagnosed with this issue will be replaced and Dell Technologies will work with Intel to ensure that all costs are covered for our impacted customers.

HP — two-year warranty extension​

HP is aware of Intel’s recent announcement extending warranties on 13th and 14th Generation desktop processors experiencing microcode instability issues. We will honor Intel’s extended warranty of two years on impacted processors and we are working closely with Intel on how to best manage this process for our customers.

Lenovo — no reply​

We received out-of-office messages from two PR contacts and no reply from a third.

MSI — no reply​

We received no reply from two PR contacts.

Corsair — four-year total CPU warranty​

I’m happy to let you know that Corsair and Origin PC are providing a 4-year CPU warranty on all Intel 13th gen and 14th gen processors from date of purchase for our customers.
If any of our customers have questions or concerns, we encourage them to contact our customer service department; we are more than happy to help.

Digital Storm — five-year CPU warranty​

Thank you for reaching out. We’re committed to supporting our customers. All previous and new systems with Intel 13th and 14th Gen CPUs will include an extended 5 year warranty coverage for the processor only.
(Digital Storm did not clarify whether the warranty had been extended by five additional years or is now five years in total, though the latter seems more likely.)

Falcon Northwest — five-year total CPU warranty​

Yes. Falcon Northwest passes along manufacturer’s warranties in addition to our own warranty. Intel 13th & 14th Gen desktop processors on Intel’s list will now be covered for a full 5 years. Falcon Northwest has always offered a 3 year warranty on all of our desktops, including the first year with our “Falcon Overnight” service where we pay overnight shipping both ways in the event a major repair is needed. Lifetime technical support is always standard.

Maingear — five-year total CPU warranty​

Committed to providing exceptional service and product quality, MAINGEAR, in response to Intel’s recent warranty update, will be extending the processor warranty on all PCs equipped with affected 13th and 14th Gen Intel Core processors to five (5) years from the date of purchase. This extension also applies to systems featuring delidded 14900KS processors.
Also:
In the coming weeks, MAINGEAR will be alerting customers of the processor warranty extension and will proactively guide affected customers through the necessary update procedures.

Origin PC — four-year total CPU warranty​

I’m happy to let you know that Corsair and Origin PC are providing a 4-year CPU warranty on all Intel 13th gen and 14th gen processors from date of purchase for our customers.
If any of our customers have questions or concerns, we encourage them to contact our customer service department; we are more than happy to help.
Note: Corsair owns Origin PC and had the same reply for both.

NZXT — would not promise warranty extension​

We are aware of the instability reports regarding Intel’s 13th and 14th generation processors. NZXT is committed to delivering a great customer experience and we are currently working with Intel on details to best serve impacted customers. We will share an update as soon as possible.
If any of our customers suspect they are having issues with these affected Intel CPUs, please reach out to NZXT Customer Service for support.

Puget Systems — three-year total CPU warranty​

We are extending our warranty on affected CPUs to 3 years for any customer affected by this issue, regardless of warranty purchased. With a Puget Systems PC, you should be able to count on it working for you. If we no longer have supply of 13th or 14th Gen processors, we’ll upgrade you to a more current generation.

CyberPowerPC — no human reply​

Emails to CyberPowerPC, which sells prebuilt PCs at Best Buy and elsewhere, were met with an automated response that linked to the company’s standard warranty — which only includes a one-year parts warranty.

iBuypower — five-year total CPU warranty​

Our company has been in close communication with Intel to resolve this issue. We can confirm we will honor Intel’s extended warranty. We are establishing processes for impacted customers to receive assistance from iBUYPOWER on their CPUs and will share details directly with customers and the public soon. We will share this process once it is finalized.
 
Use HWiNFO as it can show what the max frequency you hit was https://www.hwinfo.com/
Also helpful as it'll tell you the temps so you'll know if the issue is maybe your cooling sucks.
Follow up, thank you for this wonderful software, freeware even! I checked my 12900k and it was actually working within spec. It DOES hit 5.2 ghz... for brief moments. It is a turbo boost as intel bills it.

The P cores normally run under load (played CoD Cold War for the main test, though this is in general as well) around 4.8ghz. It only peaks when it ABSOLUTELY has to. Which I can give Intel credit for, a rare W in these times, they made the boost mode not a total nuclear bomb.
 
I've complained before that the 12 GB of RAM in the Radeon 6700 XT never seems to be useful. A recent example is No Man's Sky. With everything except textures on Ultra, it stays under 8 GB and runs at 90 fps. Bump up the textures to ultra, and now it's consuming 11.5 GB and running at 30-40 fps inside the hangar of my capital ship.
 
hey friendos, im looking to upgrade my computer as my current one cant handle elden ring

but i feel i got hosed with a prebuilt i got ages ago.

anyone able to point me in the right direction to either build one or some prebuilders who arent scammers (im in australia)

cheers mates
 
hey friendos, im looking to upgrade my computer as my current one cant handle elden ring

but i feel i got hosed with a prebuilt i got ages ago.

anyone able to point me in the right direction to either build one or some prebuilders who arent scammers (im in australia)

cheers mates
Pc Part Picker aussie version.

Use this to get all the pieces and it will check to make sure every component is compatible and even tell you the estimated wattage so you can make sure to get an adequate power supply.
 
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